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Nuns with Guns posted:I've seen a lot of people saying they're moving to Bluesky now, and the current big barrier to mass adoption there is that it's still in a "beta invite" stage. If it can roll out publicly soon though it might actually become the main Twitter alternative. Which is funny but also depressing because it's just "Jack Dorsey's Twitter 2.0" with even more insufferable tech bro impulses. Cohost is going to go bankrupt very soon and Mastodon will never be able to replace Twitter because you can't really cross-promote or search across federated instances easily, so it'll never be a useful platform for self-promotion or networking. Wait, what's going on with Cohost?
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Jul 3, 2023 18:50
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King of Solomon posted:Wait, what's going on with Cohost? It's financially not sustainable because it's a programmers' coop made up of people who hate Silicon Valley and app monetisation and therefore will not, for ethical reasons, do all the things social media websites do in order to generate revenue (selling their users' data and putting ads everywhere).
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Jul 3, 2023 18:58
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that's the best pitch for cohost i've ever heard, which is unfortunate under the circumstances
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Jul 3, 2023 18:59
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The problem Bluesky has is that fundamentally it's just not quite ready yet. It has decent but basic functionality for a few hundred thousand people, but unless they either have serious redundancy or open the doors as slowly as possible, a flood of people from Twitter would hit them like a wave hits a candle.
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Jul 3, 2023 18:59
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Lemon-Lime posted:It's financially not sustainable because it's a programmers' coop made up of people who hate Silicon Valley and app monetisation and therefore will not, for ethical reasons, do all the things social media websites do in order to generate revenue (selling their users' data and putting ads everywhere). Guess I'll just have to enjoy it while it lasts, because those are all solid reasons to support it. Glad it's not at immediate risk of falling apart.
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Jul 3, 2023 19:04
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Nuns with Guns posted:I've seen a lot of people saying they're moving to Bluesky now, and the current big barrier to mass adoption there is that it's still in a "beta invite" stage. If it can roll out publicly soon though it might actually become the main Twitter alternative. Which is funny but also depressing because it's just "Jack Dorsey's Twitter 2.0" with even more insufferable tech bro impulses. Cohost is going to go bankrupt very soon and Mastodon will never be able to replace Twitter because you can't really cross-promote or search across federated instances easily, so it'll never be a useful platform for self-promotion or networking. Also Bluesky is apparently run by another right-wing doofus but apparently it's not as obvious about it?
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Jul 3, 2023 19:39
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Dawgstar posted:Also Bluesky is apparently run by another right-wing doofus but apparently it's not as obvious about it? It's run by Jack Dorsey, previous CEO of Twitter, who has always been a fascist piece of poo poo.
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Jul 3, 2023 19:46
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King of Solomon posted:Wait, what's going on with Cohost? Like Lemon said, they're hemorrhaging money: https://cohost.org/staff/post/1690393-h1-2023-financial-up Dawgstar posted:Also Bluesky is apparently run by another right-wing doofus but apparently it's not as obvious about it? Jack, the Twitter creator, is on its board of directors. It was a Twitter initiative originally that spun out of it when a bunch of the Twitter executives walked away from Elon with sacks of money and started fiddling with it instead. Jack is one of those affluent libertarian tech bro types who mostly spends his time getting obsessed meditation retreats and enchanting Web3 catnip like NFTs.
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Jul 3, 2023 19:52
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Lemon-Lime posted:It's run by Jack Dorsey, previous CEO of Twitter, who has always been a fascist piece of poo poo. No, it isn’t. The CEO is Jay Graber, Dorsey sits on the board but isn’t running the company.
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Jul 3, 2023 19:58
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https://twitter.com/b0tster/status/1675208359018913793?t=kP0wEyQEd5kjBCTffRt-Xg&s=19
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Jul 3, 2023 20:04
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Nuns with Guns posted:Like Lemon said, they're hemorrhaging money: This is a very sad, but not understandable post. I hope they can figure things out because a site like cohost should exist, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up about something that unrealistic. Well, like I said before, I guess I'll just have to enjoy it while it lasts.
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Jul 3, 2023 20:12
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Thank heavens for Tumblr, which famously doesn't have bigotry embedded in its algorithms.
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Jul 4, 2023 01:41
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Honestly, it's an improvement over the usual, where the bigotry switch is locked to 'on'
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Jul 4, 2023 01:44
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Halloween Jack posted:Thank heavens for Tumblr, which famously doesn't have bigotry embedded in its algorithms. They ever get rid of all those female-presenting nipples?
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Jul 4, 2023 01:45
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the sentiment there seems to be "the platform is capable of detecting hate speech, but actively decides to limit its response to a toggle that can prevent you from seeing it, if you want to"
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Jul 4, 2023 01:53
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IIRC, cohost is also being written by amateurs and rife with technical blunders (in a way that doesn't inspire confidence). Also, I thought I heard about some bad eggs on staff.
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Jul 4, 2023 02:29
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they’re definitely not amateurs
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Jul 4, 2023 02:54
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Whatever replaces twitter and facebook and reddit will probably look very different from twitter and facebook and reddit
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Jul 4, 2023 03:08
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Being able to turn off nazis is actually a pretty great solution assuming they're switched off by default.
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Jul 4, 2023 11:41
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CitizenKeen posted:IIRC, cohost is also being written by amateurs and rife with technical blunders (in a way that doesn't inspire confidence). Also, I thought I heard about some bad eggs on staff. You're almost certainly thinking of Hive. moths posted:Being able to turn off nazis is actually a pretty great solution assuming they're switched off by default. The Nazis shouldn't be there to be turned off because they should be banned.
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Jul 4, 2023 13:11
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Lemon-Lime posted:You're almost certainly thinking of Hive. You are absolutely correct. My mistake/apologies.
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Jul 4, 2023 14:10
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Lemon-Lime posted:The Nazis shouldn't be there to be turned off because they should be banned. Yeah that would be cool, but never loving works. I'll take the imperfect solution of shoveling them into a shadow ban where nobody can hear them except feds. It's better than Twitter's no solution.
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Jul 4, 2023 14:24
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Are you saying banning and deplatforming doesn't work? Because we have plenty of evidence that it works extremely well. Letting them have an echo chamber on your platform is an incredibly bad idea.
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Jul 4, 2023 14:31
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to be perhaps more charitable than they deserve, the issue might be more "we're using an automated heuristic to tag accounts/content and it's convinced that 'cis' is a slur and Peppa Pig is nudity"
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Jul 4, 2023 15:10
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Bottom Liner posted:Are you saying banning and deplatforming doesn't work? Because we have plenty of evidence that it works extremely well. There's also plenty of evidence that it doesn't. They were getting banned and deplatformed pretty aggressively through 1945, but they're still everywhere. Inviting them into an obvious watchlist is about the only way to keep them off your platform.
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Jul 4, 2023 15:17
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moths posted:They were getting banned and deplatformed pretty aggressively through 1945, but they're still everywhere. Yes, and the efforts to do so were so effective nazi apologist were unable to publish reams of material enshrining the nazi-german military as a heroically outnumbered band of elite soldiers in the eyes of the west.
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Jul 4, 2023 15:59
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:to be perhaps more charitable than they deserve, the issue might be more "we're using an automated heuristic to tag accounts/content and it's convinced that 'cis' is a slur and Peppa Pig is nudity" Sort of, yeah. There’s an automated classification tool for individual posts, and the moderation team (which is too small and makes mistakes) can and does also ban people. Probably worth keeping in mind that it’s intended to be a distributed service so there’s only so much value to a ban. Distributed is a problem in this sense because it means you can’t stop people from reading your posts in any meaningful way. Current proposals are here: https://blueskyweb.xyz/blog/6-23-2023-moderation-proposals Also worth noting that Jay Graber used to be a crypto dev which makes me a bit less trusting of her judgement.
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Jul 4, 2023 16:01
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Pakxos posted:Yes, and the efforts to do so were so effective nazi apologist were unable to publish reams of material enshrining the nazi-german military as a heroically outnumbered band of elite soldiers in the eyes of the west. We didn't really deplatform though, we put them in charge of Berlin, because those dastardly communists were right next door.
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Jul 4, 2023 16:27
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By the laws as written Hitler should have been executed for the Beer Hall Putsch. He was given preferential treatment and imprisoned instead. This is literally the opposite of deplatforming.
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Jul 4, 2023 17:00
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moths posted:Yeah that would be cool, but never loving works. Please explain how it's better to identify and let the nazis stay but let people turn off seeing them than it is to identify them and just get rid of them completely. The identification methods used in either case are literally the same, exactly as many nazis slip past the filter in the former solution as the latter.
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Jul 4, 2023 17:04
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i would hope people aren't looking at bluesky or whatever because they think it's woke or something, its fundamentally that twitter was an enjoyable place to post and follow people, and it isn't anymore because the site is now barely functional
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Jul 4, 2023 17:06
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Mors Rattus posted:Please explain how it's better to identify and let the nazis stay but let people turn off seeing them than it is to identify them and just get rid of them completely. You can make money off nazi users too. Not saying that’s a good justification but it probably is the reason a platform owner would give
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Jul 4, 2023 17:09
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moths posted:There's also plenty of evidence that it doesn't.  holy poo poo
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Jul 4, 2023 17:15
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moths posted:Yeah that would be cool, but never loving works. You've made a brave stand on a lot of dumb hills over the years, but this is definitely one of the bigger ones. This is maybe not Everest-tall, but perhaps around a Makalu-sized rise to die on? Feels Villeneuve posted:i would hope people aren't looking at bluesky or whatever because they think it's woke or something, Yeah, I think it would succeed if it can roll out to people because it's the most Twitter-like in function. The filtering tools are absolutely what I'd expect Twitter executives to try to implement after years of saying people don't want to see nazis posting on the platform. "Oh, you don't like seeing nazi posts? Siiiigh well if you really don't want to see them in this town square where we allow free exchange of ideas then here's a button you can press to hide flagged hate groups." [In less than a week the flagging system starts flagging BLM and LGBTQ+ type advocacy accounts as hate groups too.] Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 17:27
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one day I hope to be lucky enough to be deplatformed so hard I get to write a book saying I invented manuever warfare, did nothing wrong and get to retire quietly in bavaria
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Jul 4, 2023 17:32
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Lemon-Lime posted:You're almost certainly thinking of Hive. Remember how the justification for not going harder on bigotry is because they'd have to ban shitloads of republican politicians as well?
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Jul 4, 2023 17:38
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ItohRespectArmy posted:one day I hope to be lucky enough to be deplatformed so hard I get to write a book saying I invented manuever warfare, did nothing wrong and get to retire quietly in bavaria Also work at NASA.
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Jul 4, 2023 18:12
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:Remember how the justification for not going harder on bigotry is because they'd have to ban shitloads of republican politicians as well?
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Jul 4, 2023 19:08
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Dawgstar posted:Also work at NASA. That's not my department.
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Mors Rattus posted:Please explain how it's better to identify and let the nazis stay but let people turn off seeing them than it is to identify them and just get rid of them completely. This one isn't even hard: Any social media is going to have nazis on it. If you publicly signal and advertise that they will be identified by ~some means~ yours will have fewer. They're terrified of being tracked and listed like zika mosquitoes or sick herd animals. Look at how they freaked out about glowies. You can't eliminate all of them, but you can 1) dissuade and disincentivize by identifying their accounts as hate groups and 2) denying them any audience but having their accounts ignored by default. The missing piece is a few pressers inviting cooperation with the ACLU, SLPC, and feds about the lists. Or sure, do the Musk thing and invite atomwaffen back on or whatever the gently caress. Nobody listen to me, I only have bad ideas e: You don't get rid of them by saying you don't want them. You get rid of them by being a place they don't desire to be, where the cost outweighs the benefit. Having an actual verification process would help, too. Not just blue-checks-for-cash, but "We've got your drivers' license on file" verification. moths fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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