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Discendo Vox posted:I'm very curious who would do this- I see little utility in what can't have been a very cheap stunt. It made it here, it made it on twitter; I'm sure it's gonna be parroted back by idiots. The point is to insert that number into the collective mind as a truth while the topic of conversation is the audacity to put up a banner. The number is the background issue that is the real message that will be inserted in your brain. It's a drat lie that 11,000 people died between 2014 and 2022. I was constantly watching liveuamap and other sources and except for the occasional exchange of shells there was nothing happening there for 8 years. They count their own purges, their casualties on the front and probably everybody who fled in that number, but to say 11,000 civilians died in 8 years is a drat lie. But wars have been fought for less and we are 1.5 years into this so let them have their own justification for it if they want; still it doesn't make it true.
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Jul 4, 2023 14:48
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Brain65 posted:It made it here, it made it on twitter; I'm sure it's gonna be parroted back by idiots. The point is to insert that number into the collective mind as a truth while the topic of conversation is the audacity to put up a banner. The number is the background issue that is the real message that will be inserted in your brain. It's a drat lie that 11,000 people died between 2014 and 2022. I was constantly watching liveuamap and other sources and except for the occasional exchange of shells there was nothing happening there for 8 years. They count their own purges, their casualties on the front and probably everybody who fled in that number, but to say 11,000 civilians died in 8 years is a drat lie. But wars have been fought for less and we are 1.5 years into this so let them have their own justification for it if they want; still it doesn't make it true. It's pretty close to the official UN numbers for the conflict. The dishonest part is implying that these deaths were evenly spread out over the 8 years, instead of being mostly from the time before Minsk II. It's also of course omitting what led to all of these deaths, i.e. the Russian invasion of Donbas.
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Jul 4, 2023 15:06
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GABA ghoul posted:It's pretty close to the official UN numbers for the conflict. The dishonest part is implying that these deaths were evenly spread out over the 8 years, instead of being mostly from the time before Minsk II. It's also of course omitting what led to all of these deaths, i.e. the Russian invasion of Donbas. Also that those are overwhelmingly military deaths, and include Russian citizens.
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Jul 4, 2023 15:16
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I am curious, since a lot of Prigozhin affiliated stuff got shut down and memory holed, have any significant telegram voices stopped posting since? I think Gray Zone was one formerly Wagner aligned channel, but I think they're still posting?
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Jul 4, 2023 15:33
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OddObserver posted:Also that those are overwhelmingly military deaths, and include Russian citizens. Well, there were a lot of civilian deaths too, but most of that was caused by what the fake "separatists" were doing, which is exact same thing the Russians are doing; aka looting, raping, torture people for fun, and many other horrible horrible things.
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Jul 4, 2023 15:53
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Hopefully these guys and some Russian nazis can meet each other in the middle of a minefield.
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Jul 4, 2023 16:15
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Regarding the "realist" argument that the US should ignore Ukraine to focus on China, that seems incredibly stupid because Russia was aligned with China and supplied arms to it, so weakening Russia is indirectly weakening China, and it's only cost the US some spare change and a bunch of old gear it found behind the couch. It's also welded NATO together more tightly and expanded it, and every time the Chinese make both-sides noises about Ukraine it pisses off the Europeans, which also helps the US. Finally it's demonstrated that invasions can go very badly wrong when your opponent isn't completely outmatched like the US vs Iraq, which has given the Chinese further pause re Taiwan. So basically the US supporting Ukraine has been a massive win in every conceivable way in regards to its contest with China.
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Jul 4, 2023 16:29
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Hopefully these guys and some Russian nazis can meet each other in the middle of a minefield. Well, since his unit is linked to one of those Russian neo-nazi groups doing raids into Belgorod from Ukraine they probably do so with some regularity.
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Jul 4, 2023 16:29
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Staluigi posted:Like you know how ultranationalist news and websites is eventually all scam health poo poo ads? That but on a national level There is, indirectly, something to this, as I view pseudoscientific product markets (which in practice are usually health or diet related) as a major cause of decline. These products are pretty much always accompanied by other false beliefs, and have the effect of detaching the population from empirical reality in some really concrete, consequential ways.
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Jul 4, 2023 16:36
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Yep, and nobody believes in just one conspiracy theory, it's almost always all or nothing
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Jul 4, 2023 16:38
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Discendo Vox posted:There is, indirectly, something to this, as I view pseudoscientific product markets (which in practice are usually health or diet related) as a major cause of decline. These products are pretty much always accompanied by other false beliefs, and have the effect of detaching the population from empirical reality in some really concrete, consequential ways. Edit: and Allan Chumak
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Jul 4, 2023 17:03
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woodenchicken posted:Ren-TV plays a Hollywood movie every evening, and there's always a couple more playing at the same time on other channels I don't bother remembering the names of. Lol at the thought of watching ren-tv for movies, instead of finding out the truth about the aliens and reptilians
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Jul 4, 2023 17:15
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Somaen posted:Lol at the thought of watching ren-tv for movies, instead of finding out the truth about the aliens and reptilians Hey there is a generation that grew up on late night softcore porn on ren tv
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Jul 4, 2023 17:24
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Staluigi posted:No no, I got to hear this Ads on fox news, newsmax and right wing radio are full of quack medical devices. And their audience are fascist pro-russians too.
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Jul 4, 2023 18:02
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Kremlin, U.S. have talked prisoner swap for Gershkovichquote:Russian and U.S. officials have discussed a potential prisoner swap that could include detained Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said, though they “don’t want them to be discussed in public.” Peskov told reporters on a call Tuesday that talks “must be carried out and continue in complete silence.” For those out of the loop, Evan was the first reporter arrested for accused spying since Soviet times. Edit: First American reporter, not sure if other nationality reporters have been.
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Jul 4, 2023 18:08
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thekeeshman posted:Regarding the "realist" argument that the US should ignore Ukraine to focus on China, that seems incredibly stupid because Russia was aligned with China and supplied arms to it, so weakening Russia is indirectly weakening China, and it's only cost the US some spare change and a bunch of old gear it found behind the couch. It's also welded NATO together more tightly and expanded it, and every time the Chinese make both-sides noises about Ukraine it pisses off the Europeans, which also helps the US. Finally it's demonstrated that invasions can go very badly wrong when your opponent isn't completely outmatched like the US vs Iraq, which has given the Chinese further pause re Taiwan. While a such a surface level analysis can be self gratifying, if you were to have followed the EU and its constituent members on this issue, the Europeans have a much more nuanced view of China and its future involvement with them that is separate from what they do or don't do with respect to the Ukrainian war. The US shouldn't expect any support in its own great power struggle vs China as the EU is more than willing to play both sides. The EU is still keenly attracted to the Chinese market and is unlikely to risk a full on decoupling such a move might bring even as it seeks to lower its strategic dependence with China on certain supply chain issues. The Germans were among those who expressed the view that Russia shouldn't be driven in the the Chinese arms as effectively a subordinate state but that ship seems to have come and gone by this point. Chinese aid isn't weakening Russia at the moment, it is in fact helping them procure cheap energy from the Russians. Finally, Taiwan doesn't need to be invaded. China can easily starve the island into submission within several months should it choose to try and take Taiwan by force and the only way out would be for the US to test the blockade by running it. So no, helping the Ukrainians doesn't necessarily aid the US in competition with China right now, though it isn't costing much at the moment as it is likely Russia will be a permanent junior partner to Beijing at this point given all that has gone on since Feb 2022.
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Jul 4, 2023 18:12
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Public service announcement for those concerned: if you are a Russian male avoiding conscription by staying abroad and you have a Russian driving licence, then Russia is going to invalidate your permit next Tuesday July 11th. It's not known how they would communicate this information to all the other countries in the world or if those would give a poo poo as long as the expiration date on the card has not been met. Might be an issue if you have an accident though and cops or insurance company start to snoop around.
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Jul 4, 2023 18:27
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New AA dropped https://v.redd.it/d2btmfy26z9b1/DASH_1080.mp4
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Jul 4, 2023 19:05
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MikeC posted:While a such a surface level analysis can be self gratifying, if you were to have followed the EU and its constituent members on this issue, the Europeans have a much more nuanced view of China and its future involvement with them that is separate from what they do or don't do with respect to the Ukrainian war. The US shouldn't expect any support in its own great power struggle vs China as the EU is more than willing to play both sides. The EU is still keenly attracted to the Chinese market and is unlikely to risk a full on decoupling such a move might bring even as it seeks to lower its strategic dependence with China on certain supply chain issues. I didn't say that the Europeans would jump to defend Taiwan, I said that Chinese support for Russia would cause Europeans to look at ties with China as a liability, which is already happening, as well as make them more skeptical of the whole concept of appeasing autocracies in the name of peace which was the prevalent attitude prior to the invasion. I know the Germans had their Ostpolitik for years but hopefully everyone's realized that it was a bad idea, as the more the Germans sucked up to Putin the more convinced he was that he could do whatever he wanted. I didn't say that Chinese aid was weakening Russia, I said it was weakening China, which is it, and which is why they've barely given the Russians anything other than a market for what fuels they've been able to redirect and some half hearted diplomatic cover. You're forgetting that prior to this invasion there was lots of talk about how NATO was obsolete and the EU needed more strategic and military autonomy, as well as the aforementioned tendency to think that appeasing Putin was the path to peace, and that's all gone. And yes, the Chinese could blockade and starve Taiwan, but that's a much slower course that gives everyone opposed to it time to react and counteract it, as opposed to a lighting invasion which can be presented as a fait accompli, and which is now far less likely.
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Jul 4, 2023 19:08
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The inverse of that Soviet bomber in WW2 that ran out of bombs so they just tied a bunch of SMGs together and pointed them downward
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Jul 4, 2023 19:24
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Can assault rifle rounds even reach an airplane/helicopter with any penetrative power left?
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Jul 4, 2023 19:30
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Yep
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Jul 4, 2023 19:34
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Can assault rifle rounds even reach an airplane/helicopter with any penetrative power left? I mean, depends on altitude, obviously. But like, take a jet flying at 200 feet altitude at 600 knots running into a bunch of flying metal? That's not a good time for the jet.
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Jul 4, 2023 19:36
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Drones are also a thing.
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Jul 4, 2023 19:39
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Can assault rifle rounds even reach an airplane/helicopter with any penetrative power left? Those who have to fly low to avoid radar are probably very vulnerable to this. Making a flying machine fly is non-trivial, and involves a lot of measures to reduce weight. Even an armored combat helicopter is astonishingly flimsy, even compared to an IFV. A bad round of bullets out of nowhere can easily choke an engine, and helicopters are always looking for an excuse to dive straight into the ground, anyway.
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Jul 4, 2023 19:42
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Can assault rifle rounds even reach an airplane/helicopter with any penetrative power left? Helicopters won't stay around to find out if the air defense that is hitting them finds something that can penetrate their armor. But yeah, those are against drones.
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Jul 4, 2023 19:43
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Can assault rifle rounds even reach an airplane/helicopter with any penetrative power left? Helicopters in Vietnam got shot up pretty good with AKs.
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Jul 4, 2023 19:48
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The KalAAAshnikov Gort posted:I mean, depends on altitude, obviously. But like, take a jet flying at 200 feet altitude at 600 knots running into a bunch of flying metal? That's not a good time for the jet. Pretty doubtful that that would ever hit a jet. Even helicopters are doubtful unless they come unlikely close and just hover around. But like said, for drone defence all you need is a lucky roll of dice, and that's plenty of dice. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 19:50
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Can assault rifle rounds even reach an airplane/helicopter with any penetrative power left? Not really. Even with a 7.62 round the absolute top end of their range is about 3600 meters. Really beyond 1000 meters it is completely ineffective. Even a 50 caliber is ineffective beyond 1800-2000 meters outside of handloaded match grade stuff for snipers. There is a reason why most anti-aircraft weapons are 20mm as they have a long enough effective range and stopping power for low flying aircraft. Really though most stuff anymore is either flying higher than anti-air guns and/or MANPADs can attack them or low enough that they are rendered ineffective as well.
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Jul 4, 2023 19:50
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Even in WWII against slow planes made of plywood rifle caliber AA was of marginal utility; and here we have guns (I assume those are RPK 74s? Or just ordinary AKs?) firing even weaker, shorter range intermediary cartridges. It makes sense against drones though. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 19:51
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it's gonna run out of ammo really fast so doubt you could get a bead on a long range target like a plane, but it's got a shotgun effect so you'd get a few good bursts at a drone no problem.
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Jul 4, 2023 20:00
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steinrokkan posted:Even in WWII against slow planes made of plywood rifle caliber AA was of marginal utility; and here we have guns (I assume those are RPK 74s? Or just ordinary AKs?) firing even weaker, shorter range intermediary cartridges. I mean if planes and helicopters in this war mainly did strafing attacks then it would still make sense to shoot at them with anything just to drive them away and because modern planes aren't as heavily armoured as WW2 ground attack planes, but we haven't seen much of that since the battle of Hostomel in the early days.
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Jul 4, 2023 20:03
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BillsPhoenix posted:In general I've liked the engagement here a lot more than reddit. I'm not going to doxx myself, and I thought that was against the rules to ask. Yes, it is in D&D. I would remind everyone that if you believe someone is a rereg who shouldn't be posting in D&D, they should be reported. We currently have no hard evidence that BillsPhoenix is such an individual, in spite of his recent registration.
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Jul 4, 2023 20:17
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Can we still report people for JAQ and disingenuous posting, then? Because this was a very strange development from "wow, I sure do wonder why my American friends are so excited about Ukraine" to "why are people being mean to this specific theory of international relations that incidentally is trumpeted by anglophone pro-Russians?"
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Jul 4, 2023 20:24
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A lot of the twitter accounts that do updates seem on edge about nuclear plant activity right now. I hope it's just more anxiety and not an actuality. Rumor is that Russia is pulling staff out and rigging the place to blow as a false flag against Ukraine using a missile to attack the plant and do their own false flag. Specifically the night of July 5th. Russian telegram channels reported to also be on this rumor mill, which hasn't happened before to this extent. Edit- https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1676310984309239811 ummel fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jul 4, 2023 |
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Jul 4, 2023 20:25
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The X-man cometh posted:Ads on fox news, newsmax and right wing radio are full of quack medical devices. And their audience are fascist pro-russians too. Info Wars takes this to the logistical end point by directly selling its own brands of health scams. The program is in effect a combination disinformation campaign and infomercial. Like most far right hacks Alex Jones loves Putin, presumably he recognizes him as a kindred spirit. I also wouldn't be at all suprised if he is or was getting Russian money.
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Jul 4, 2023 20:38
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I dont know posted:Info Wars takes this to the logistical end point by directly selling its own brands of health scams. The program is in effect a combination disinformation campaign and infomercial. Like most far right hacks Alex Jones loves Putin, presumably he recognizes him as a kindred spirit. I also wouldn't be at all suprised if he is or was getting Russian money. Well it isn’t a secret that most right wing hacks are funded either directly or indirectly by Russia.
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Jul 4, 2023 20:43
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ummel posted:A lot of the twitter accounts that do updates seem on edge about nuclear plant activity right now. I hope it's just more anxiety and not an actuality. Rumor is that Russia is pulling staff out and rigging the place to blow as a false flag against Ukraine using a missile to attack the plant and do their own false flag. Specifically the night of July 5th. Russian telegram channels reported to also be on this rumor mill, which hasn't happened before to this extent. I've seen what seems to be the same story reported every day without much mention from other sources or credible talk from other nations or this thread so I was half-assuming there's nothing to back it up, that it won't be an international disaster, or nobody can do anything until a quantifiable thing happens (and that said quantifiable thing won't be Chernobyl 2.0 anyway). But I'm also an idiot.
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Jul 4, 2023 21:39
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Can assault rifle rounds even reach an airplane/helicopter with any penetrative power left? Might be effective against drones like Shahed
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Jul 4, 2023 21:43
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Szmitten posted:I've seen what seems to be the same story reported every day without much mention from other sources or credible talk from other nations or this thread so I was half-assuming there's nothing to back it up, that it won't be an international disaster, or nobody can do anything until a quantifiable thing happens (and that said quantifiable thing won't be Chernobyl 2.0 anyway). But I'm also an idiot. There's been alarm over claims Russia is going to sabotage the plant before only for nothing to happen, and it's hard to believe even they could be stupid enough to do such a thing, so I want to say it's nothing. But I'm also reluctant to rely on "surely Russia couldn't be that stupid" as evidence against anything, so I'm not as confident as I wish I was.
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Jul 4, 2023 21:45
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