[Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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Starsfan: Sep 29, 2007; This is what happens when you disrespect Cam Neely

yeah it makes perfect sense that the Russians would plant explosives on the roof of their nuclear power plant to simulate a Ukrainian attack to make the Ukrainians look bad to their partners in the west. Because Ukraine's partners in the west and the media would certainly approach the situation objectively and not just parrot whatever line Ukraine wheels out, like they have all the other times Ukraine has tried to frame the Russians for doing stuff.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:03

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# ? May 25, 2024 18:24

fits my needs: Jan 1, 2011; Grimey Drawer

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1676336904285966336?s=20

Unfortunately, there was no timely and large-scale response to the terrorist attack on the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant. And this may incite the Kremlin to commit new evil. It is the responsibility of everyone in the world to stop it, no one can stand aside, as radiation affects everyone.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:07

Cao Ni Ma: May 25, 2010

I would think the IAEA dudes still at the plant could confirm if explosives have been put on the roof of the plant and call out ukraine for their bullshit if they really cared.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:08

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Starsfan posted:

yeah it makes perfect sense that the Russians would plant explosives on the roof of their nuclear power plant to simulate a Ukrainian attack to make the Ukrainians look bad to their partners in the west. Because Ukraine's partners in the west and the media would certainly approach the situation objectively and not just parrot whatever line Ukraine wheels out, like they have all the other times Ukraine has tried to frame the Russians for doing stuff.

The US has not bought in to the Ukrainian line that Ukrainian claim that the Nova Kakhovka dam. Ukraine makes a lot of claims that the US doesn't cosign. For example, Ukraine said very clearly that Russia blew up Nord Stream 2. And that Russia shelled the prison full of Ukrainian POWs in Olenivka. The US stance is that they don't have sufficient evidence to attribute those events. Ukraine also originally claimed that the S-300 that landed in Poland was actually Russia, and the US first stated that they could not verify who was responsible, then pretty quickly directly contradicted Ukraine's claims in conjunction with Poland to say that it was an S-300 missile fired from inside Ukraine which missed its target.

Ukraine makes a lot of claims that the US either disagrees with publicly or just doesn't put a stake down one way or the other, due to lack of evidence and inability to attribute.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:09

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

The only real outcome will be the permanent loss of some of the world's most valuable farming land as the breadbasket spoils.

Hope everyone is living in a place with good long term food security because when supply goes down and demand doesn't then have fun in the general competition.

The borderlands will remain the borderlands. Easier if no farms I guess.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:09

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

sum posted:

Made the mistake of reading the comments r/worldnews. It was kinda funny seeing someone ask what Russia would have to gain from blowing up ZNPP, and the top upvoted comments earnestly replying that, that's the thing, Russians are just so irrational and hate Ukraine so much they'll do it even if it hurts them.

There was a guy on there explaining how MAD with Russia doesn't exist, there was no way their nukes still work, because they don't spend as money on their arsenal as we do ours.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:12

Starsfan: Sep 29, 2007; This is what happens when you disrespect Cam Neely

Mantis42 posted:

There was a guy on there explaining how MAD with Russia doesn't exist, there was no way their nukes still work, because they don't spend as money on their arsenal as we do ours.

I've also seen people argue that even if Russia does have thousands of nukes it's better to all go down in nuclear apocalypse because you can't give in to a bully even if you all die as a result. Better to all be dead than to live with the indignity of knowing Russia was able to get away with their aggression on Ukraine.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:14

Freezer: Apr 20, 2001; The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever.

mlmp08 posted:

The US has not bought in to the Ukrainian line that Ukrainian claim that the Nova Kakhovka dam. Ukraine makes a lot of claims that the US doesn't cosign. For example, Ukraine said very clearly that Russia blew up Nord Stream 2. And that Russia shelled the prison full of Ukrainian POWs in Olenivka. The US stance is that they don't have sufficient evidence to attribute those events. Ukraine also originally claimed that the S-300 that landed in Poland was actually Russia, and the US first stated that they could not verify who was responsible, then pretty quickly directly contradicted Ukraine's claims in conjunction with Poland to say that it was an S-300 missile fired from inside Ukraine which missed its target.

Ukraine makes a lot of claims that the US either disagrees with publicly or just doesn't put a stake down one way or the other, due to lack of evidence and inability to attribute.

they also claimed that the Russians sent those drones that blew up above the Kremlin.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:15

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Cao Ni Ma posted:

I would think the IAEA dudes still at the plant could confirm if explosives have been put on the roof of the plant and call out ukraine for their bullshit if they really cared.

The IAEA does not have total access to inspect the whole site, which is part of the problem. They have to get permission for timing and location of visits from Russian occupation forces. So it is hard for the IAEA to externally confirm claims made by Russia or Ukraine, especially regarding locations to which they are not permitted inspection access.

IAEA:
https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/update-168-iaea-director-general-statement-on-situation-in-ukraine-0

IAEA on 30 JUN 2023 posted:

International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) experts have so far found no visible indications of mines or other explosives currently planted at Ukraine�s Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP), but they still need additional access to carry out further such checks at the site, Director General Rafael Mariano Grossi said today.

The team of IAEA experts were today able to inspect parts of the plant�s cooling system, including some sections of the perimeter of the large cooling pond and the isolation gate of the discharge channel of the nearby Zaporizhzhya Thermal Power Plant (ZTPP). Both this channel and the cooling pond hold reserves of water that remain available for use by the ZNPP despite the destruction of the downstream Kakhovka dam more than three weeks ago.

The IAEA experts have also been conducting regular walkdowns across the six reactor units and other areas around the site. Access to further areas is still expected, including parts of the turbine halls and some parts of the cooling system.

As previously indicated, the IAEA is aware of reports that mines and other explosives have been placed in and around the ZNPP, including mines near the cooling pond.

�We take all such reports very seriously and I have instructed our experts at the site to look into this matter and request the access they need for doing their job. Until now they have not observed any mines or other explosives. Further access will still be needed,� Director General Grossi said.

As Director General Grossi said last week, no mines were observed at the site during his visit to the ZNPP on 15 June, his third in less than ten months. However, the IAEA has been aware of a previous placement of mines outside the plant perimeter, which the Agency has reported about earlier, and also at particular places inside.

The five basic principles for the protection of Europe�s largest nuclear power plant (NPP) that Director General Grossi established on 30 May at the United Nations Security Council state that there should be no attack from or against the plant and that it should not be used as storage or a base for heavy weapons � multiple rocket launchers, artillery systems and munitions, and tanks.

�We need full access to be able to confirm that the five principles have not been violated, and we will continue to request the necessary access to all those areas essential to nuclear safety and security so that we can deliver on this mandate, including that the plant should not be used as storage or base for heavy weapons and munitions,� Director General Grossi said, adding that the IAEA team had not reported any shelling or explosions over the past week and that the military presence at the site appears unchanged.

�We are reinforcing our own presence at the plant to monitor compliance with these principles that are of paramount importance for protecting the plant and preventing a major nuclear accident during the war,� he said.

Since the Kakhovka dam was breached on 6 June, causing a rapid drop in the reservoir�s level, the ZNPP has been relying on separate reserves of water held near or at the site, especially the ZTPP�s discharge channel.

Currently, the plant�s six reactors continue to be cooled using the essential cooling system, now being replenished with underground water pumped from the site�s drainage system, Director General Grossi said. For the site�s other water needs, the plant has recently switched from using the ZTPP discharge channel to the large cooling pond next to the site.

As a result, the height of the ZNPP cooling pond is declining by up to 1 centimetre per day due to site usage and evaporation, but water from the drainage system is also being used to replenish this body of water, thereby slowing the reduction rate in the water level. The pond�s current water level is just over 16.5 metres.

On 23 June, as indicated in the Director General�s Update 167, the ZNPP started the normal circulation pumps to take water from the ZTPP�s inlet channel � which used to be directly connected to the reservoir but has since been detached from it � into the same facility�s discharge channel but soon had to stop because the water level was too low for operating these pumps. It was the first such attempt since 8 June.

Instead, Director General Grossi said, the plant is preparing to use smaller submersible pumps to access water from this inlet channel and refill the ZTPP discharge channel, whose level had been falling by around 10 centimetres per day until the plant started using the cooling pond. Its height has now stabilized at just under 17 metres, helped also by recent rain and cooler weather.

Pumping additional water into the discharge channel would provide an extra buffer for the ZNPP, whose six reactors are all in shutdown but still need both power and cooling water.

To help preserve these existing but still finite resources the plant has also reduced consumption of water that is not necessary for essential nuclear safety and security functions as much as possible.

�Even though the site currently has sufficient water reserves for some months, the plant needs to act already now to ensure sufficient water for the longer term. The plant is working to address this issue, but it is a complex undertaking, which we witnessed once again last week,� he said.

The ZNPP remains dependent on a single operational 750 kilovolt (kV) external power line for the electricity it needs for cooling the reactors and other essential nuclear safety and security functions, compared with four lines before the armed conflict in Ukraine. If this line were to fail again � as has happened repeatedly in recent months � the site currently only has emergency diesel generators available for the electricity it needs to pump the water that cools the reactors and spent fuel ponds.

Five of the ZNPP�s six reactors are in cold shutdown. Unit 5 remains in hot shutdown to generate steam required for the site. The IAEA experts visited the Unit 5 main control room yesterday and confirmed the hot shutdown status. The experts have also been informed that the plant is still assessing the need for steam to determine what type of external steam generator could be installed and possibly allow the cold shutdown of Unit 5. The IAEA is also aware that the Ukraine regulator has made changes to the licences of some of the units of ZNPP, including that the operation of Unit 5 be carried out in a cold shutdown state.

The IAEA also has teams of experts permanently present at Ukraine�s other NPPs to assist in efforts to maintain nuclear safety and security during the conflict.

On 13 June, a delivery of spare parts for the emergency diesel generators of the South Ukraine NPP took place. These spare parts are essential for the maintenance and functionality of the emergency diesel generators, so their proper functioning is ensured to prevent a nuclear accident due to loss of off-site power. The delivery followed the arrangements agreed on 5 May between the IAEA, France and Ukraine�s Energoatom. Additional spare parts foreseen under this agreement will be delivered soon.

Yesterday, the IAEA coordinated its 19th equipment delivery during the conflict, consisting of five decontamination units for Ukraine�s State Emergency Services, procured with support from the European Union. Five additional units have been procured with other funds and are awaiting shipment to Ukraine.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:18

SplitSoul: Dec 31, 2000

Guess we're about to find out what is the Big Event of the counteroffensive "that everyone will see". :ohdear:

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:19

Good Soldier Svejk: Jul 5, 2010

the best time to hide the nukes flying is when the US sky is already lit up like a christmas tree

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:20

Cao Ni Ma: May 25, 2010

mlmp08 posted:

The IAEA does not have total access to inspect the whole site, which is part of the problem. They have to get permission for timing and location of visits from Russian occupation forces. So it is hard for the IAEA to externally confirm claims made by Russia or Ukraine, especially regarding locations to which they are not permitted inspection access.

IAEA:
https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/update-168-iaea-director-general-statement-on-situation-in-ukraine-0

Ah theres no evidence of them placing explosives in or around the area but because they dont have access to some areas they cant guarantee that the dastardly russians havent fully stocked those places with explosives

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:21

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Cao Ni Ma posted:

I would think the IAEA dudes still at the plant could confirm if explosives have been put on the roof of the plant and call out ukraine for their bullshit if they really cared.

Does no one remember Hans Blix

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:21

Chillgamesh: Jul 29, 2014

Mantis42 posted:

There was a guy on there explaining how MAD with Russia doesn't exist, there was no way their nukes still work, because they don't spend as money on their arsenal as we do ours.

That story that 60 Minutes ran a while back about how Raytheon was upcharging about ~700% on Stinger missiles really did a lot to confirm my suspicions wrt the US outspending everyone on military stuff. That said, only a handful of our thousands of nukes need to work for us to be able to end the world :dawkins101:

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:21

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Ah theres no evidence of them placing explosives in or around the area but because they dont have access to some areas they cant guarantee that the dastardly russians havent fully stocked those places with explosives

The IAEA's statement is that they have found no mines, but they also are not permitted all the inspection access they require. So it is interesting to say there's absolutely no way there's anything bad behind this door, but you may absolutely not look behind this door to check for yourself, safety inspector. Maybe the entire story is 100% bullshit on Ukraine's part, but it's not clear why Russia is restricting the IAEA's access and not permitting them the full access to perform their job to ensure safety. Maybe Russia just has some very secret but also innocuous equipment or something they gotta move before they can let the IAEA look at those parts of the nuclear plant.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:24

CODChimera: Jan 29, 2009

fits my needs posted:

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1676336904285966336?s=20

Unfortunately, there was no timely and large-scale response to the terrorist attack on the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant. And this may incite the Kremlin to commit new evil. It is the responsibility of everyone in the world to stop it, no one can stand aside, as radiation affects everyone.

loving looney tunes antics

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:27

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

fits my needs posted:

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1676217262288535559?s=20

god he looks like poo poo

the thing about a suit is that it hides the fact that the politicians have the largely sedentary life of an office worker and it's hard to be authouritative when people can see you have the body of a schlubby dad

for a team that's so aware of the PR game, going for the perma green t-shirt is such a stupid decision

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:29

Starsfan: Sep 29, 2007; This is what happens when you disrespect Cam Neely

My favorite part of the theory is that the Russians have laid explosives on the roof to simulate a kamikaze drone attack on the plant instead of just using their own drones to hit the plant and framing Ukraine that way.

**long story short there's not one instance proven or even likely of Russia attacking their own infrastructure, but there are many of Ukraine resorting to terrorist tactics on Russian territories. I know which seems more plausible to me.

Starsfan has issued a correction as of 02:32 on Jul 5, 2023

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:30

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

majorian walked so mlmp could fly

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:30

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

crepeface posted:

god he looks like poo poo

the thing about a suit is that it hides the fact that the politicians have the largely sedentary life of an office worker and it's hard to be authouritative when people can see you have the body of a schlubby dad

for a team that's so aware of the PR game, going for the perma green t-shirt is such a stupid decision

Like everything else, I think the explanation is that they were going to have a short victorious war rear end he wouldn't be wearing that stuff for years

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:31

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

Lostconfused posted:

Personally I think the nuclear power plant terrorist attack is such a ridiculous event that there's no point in worrying about it.

If it happens, it happens, and I don't think anyone can predict the consequences until it does happen.

totally. it is a ridiculous thing that will happen or not entirely by the whim of Ukraine in an attempt to further draw NATO into the conflict, which is Ukraine's only path to victory.

ukraine and western media have been laying lots of groundwork for russia to take the blame

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:31

CODChimera: Jan 29, 2009

one thing is certain: ukraine has to do something

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:34

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

CODChimera posted:

one thing is certain: ukraine has to do something

My vote is they all play outdoor croquet.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:42

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Starsfan posted:

I've also seen people argue that even if Russia does have thousands of nukes it's better to all go down in nuclear apocalypse because you can't give in to a bully even if you all die as a result. Better to all be dead than to live with the indignity of knowing Russia was able to get away with their aggression on Ukraine.

Why do people insisit on taking us all out with their suicidal idealation

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:42

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

KomradeX posted:

Why do people insisit on taking us all out with their suicidal idealation

The stress of a breaking worldview after losing primacy is akin to the heretic faction taking over your lifelong religion and supplanting your faith & icons.

Think of this as something akin to a geopolitical reformation, minus the Lutherans.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:46

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Only through nuclear fire may ye soul be saved ye sinners.

Now please turn to page 127 and let us read a homile from Saint Raytheon.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:48

fizzy: Dec 2, 2022; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Starsfan posted:

**long story short there's not one instance proven or even likely of Russia attacking their own infrastructure, but there are many of Ukraine resorting to terrorist tactics on Russian territories. I know which seems more plausible to me.

There's tonnes of instances of Russia resorting to terrorist tactics on Ukrainian territory. The whole invasion, for one thing, and all the missiles and bombs lobbed by Russian forces on Ukrainian civilian cities and other civilian population centres.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:49

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

The many well documented instances of Russian cruise missiles falling on seemingly random targets with a blast suspiciously similar to a Ukrainian s300 air defence missile. Like that polish farmer or a picturesque duck pond next to a pedestrian bridge.

Haha silly Russians.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:54

paul_soccer12: Jan 5, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

sum posted:

Made the mistake of reading the comments r/worldnews. It was kinda funny seeing someone ask what Russia would have to gain from blowing up ZNPP, and the top upvoted comments earnestly replying that, that's the thing, Russians are just so irrational and hate Ukraine so much they'll do it even if it hurts them.

HonorableTB posted:

Once you excuse yourself from making sense, all nonsense becomes valid and feeds into itself. "Why do they do it? Because that's what they do." it just is. There is nothing logical about Russia.

steinrokkan posted:

If something can be ruined, Russia will ruin it. That's just how it is. They don't need an additional reason.

HonorableTB posted:

If Russia can't have it, nobody can. That's all there is to it. Brutality and entitlement

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:55

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Once you just view every western propaganda outlet as pure projection and wishful thinking written by failkids upset they never got into a Hollywood writers room it makes a lot more sense to the point of predictability.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 02:58

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

fizzy posted:

There's tonnes of instances of Russia resorting to terrorist tactics on Ukrainian territory. The whole invasion, for one thing, and all the missiles and bombs lobbed by Russian forces on Ukrainian civilian cities and other civilian population centres.

You're right again fizzy, Russia has adopted the tactics of the world's number one terrorist organization, invading other countries.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 03:00

fizzy: Dec 2, 2022; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Weka posted:

You're right again fizzy, Russia has adopted the tactics of the world's number one terrorist organization, invading other countries.

That's right. Tankies decry America for invading Iraq and Afghanistan, so why do you excuse Russia for invading Ukraine?

# ? Jul 5, 2023 03:03

paul_soccer12: Jan 5, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

It's a special military operation

# ? Jul 5, 2023 03:04

paul_soccer12: Jan 5, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

What reddit and gbs believe about Russia (feral subhumans) is actually true about Israelis tho

# ? Jul 5, 2023 03:05

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

mlmp08 posted:

The US has not bought in to the Ukrainian line that Ukrainian claim that the Nova Kakhovka dam. Ukraine makes a lot of claims that the US doesn't cosign. For example, Ukraine said very clearly that Russia blew up Nord Stream 2. And that Russia shelled the prison full of Ukrainian POWs in Olenivka. The US stance is that they don't have sufficient evidence to attribute those events. Ukraine also originally claimed that the S-300 that landed in Poland was actually Russia, and the US first stated that they could not verify who was responsible, then pretty quickly directly contradicted Ukraine's claims in conjunction with Poland to say that it was an S-300 missile fired from inside Ukraine which missed its target.

Ukraine makes a lot of claims that the US either disagrees with publicly or just doesn't put a stake down one way or the other, due to lack of evidence and inability to attribute.

no one cares how you bury your head in the sand FYI so you can trim these posts to down to "well we just dont know" and save yourself and the rest of us time

# ? Jul 5, 2023 03:08

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

paul_soccer12 posted:

What reddit and gbs believe about Russia (feral subhumans) is actually true about Israelis tho

Yes but video game logic applies. Everything is okay if we're the side doing it. Any action is morally justified because anything our side does is inherently moral and correct.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 03:09

fizzy: Dec 2, 2022; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Bad news for draft dodgers in Ukraine - Three employees at the district centers of recruitment and social support of the Kramatorsk district will be tried for forging documents for conscripted citizens to allow them to leave Ukraine by claiming they are unfit for military service

https://kyivindependent.com/the-head-of-regional-recrutiment-kramatorsk-district-falsified-documents-for-the-departure-of-men-the-dbr/

Head of regional recruitment center in Kramatorsk district charged with forging documents
by Haley Zehrung
July 5, 2023 12:42 AM

Three employees at the district centers of recruitment and social support of the Kramatorsk district will be tried for forging documents for conscripted citizens to allow them to leave Ukraine by claiming they are unfit for military service, Ukraine's State Bureau of Investigation (SBI) said on July 4.

According to an investigation launched by the SBI, the head of the center and two employees issued fake temporary IDs to conscripts and certificates from the military medical commission, which stated that the person was unfit for military service.

The head of one of the regional territorial recruitment centers sought out conscripted citizens who wished to leave Ukraine, charging a price of $2,000-$3,000 for the forged documents.

Five individuals were caught using fake documents supplied by this recruitment center in Chernivtsi and Zakarpattia oblasts.

"The head of one of the regional territorial recruitment centers is charged with the formation of an organized group and the organization of illegal transportation of persons across the state border, and with the organization of official forgery," the SBI wrote in its investigation.

The other two employees are charged with aiding in the illegal transportation of persons across the border.

The three individuals responsible for the scheme could face up to nine years in prison.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 03:16

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

I'm the Ukrainian quartermaster issuing cripples peg legs and hooks for hands so they can join the line and hobble towards the enemy artillery.

Fit for service.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 03:21

CODChimera: Jan 29, 2009

Starsfan posted:

I've also seen people argue that even if Russia does have thousands of nukes it's better to all go down in nuclear apocalypse because you can't give in to a bully even if you all die as a result. Better to all be dead than to live with the indignity of knowing Russia was able to get away with their aggression on Ukraine.

yep, and that while russia will be annihilated "we will rebuild"

just the most deranged takes possible, all the time

# ? Jul 5, 2023 03:41

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# ? May 25, 2024 18:24

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

Anyone up for a guessing game of where this came from?

quote:

Myth 1: Putin�s War
The first missiles that targeted Ukraine were quickly followed by widespread condemnation by global leaders and heads of states, as well as hundreds of thousands of protesters on the streets around the world and masses in social media. Many referred to the aggression against Ukraine as Putin�s war. Considering the de facto autocratic power of the President of Russia, he most likely was the sole decision-maker behind the war plan becoming a reality. Yet, he is not alone.

Putin and his policies enjoy widespread support in Russia, which has only strengthened during the war in Ukraine. Along with the invasion, public approval1 of Putin�s actions among Russia�s populace spiked to a 7-year high in March (83%) and remains so (81% in December 2022) despite the Western sanctions. Same goes for the public assessment of Russia�s general direction being the right one, which jumped to 69% � the highest recorded since 1996. The Kremlin unanimously deems the war necessary and just, and the vast majority of the population agrees: 71% supports the actions of the Russian armed forces in Ukraine. This backing has remained intact, regardless of estimates of the war having left more than 100,000 troops dead, wounded or missing, and in spite of the partial mobilisation wave of 300,000 men announced on September 21, 2022. These figures are telling, even when accepting the limitations of public opinion surveys in Russia.

The imperialist mindset is historically rooted in Russia. The Russian empire has taken different forms throughout centuries, but the empire state of mind at the heart of it has remained unchanged. Russia has never been a democratic country and is unlikely to become one. Even after overthrowing previous rulers, the populace has always leaned towards yet another autocratic regime. The window of limited democratisation attempts in the 1990s is remembered as a period of humiliation and chaos in Russia � an unfortunate outcome of the Soviet leaders� weakness and historical injustice that must be righted. The invasion of Ukraine is seen as a long-awaited follow-up to the imperialistic pride and sense of impunity based on the myths of the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945).

Russia�s leadership has prepared the society for a large-scale war with the West for the past 20 years. Ever since Putin�s rise to power in 2000, a propaganda narrative opposing the West, according to which the West�s goal is to destroy Russia, has been systematically developed. The narrative claims that Russia has to defend its natural resources, traditional values and even its entire existence from the morally degenerate West. The confrontation has been deliberately deepened and enforced by parallels between Putin�s actions and events of the past, often distorting or falsifying historical facts. One such chapter � Putin openly attacking Ukraine�s status as a nation and a legitimate country, denying centuries of historical events along the way � preceded the current invasion of Ukraine.

In order to suppress any possible domestic resistance, the regime has systematically worked to destroy the remnants of opposition and civil society through repressive legislation and extensive use of force. The measures have only grown harsher over time. Heavily state-controlled media, intense propaganda and increasingly limited access to alternative sources of information has made aligning with the prevailing opinion easy. Economically, war preparations have been spurred by oil and gas exports massing up financial reserves. Energy exports also allowed gaining political influence in Europe.

Democratic accountability has no place in the Kremlin�s regime, which makes Russia�s pain threshold considerably higher. Russia will not back down in seemingly dire situations. Observers saw Putin�s announcement of mobilization as a sign of weakness and desperation. Instead, it should be seen as proof of the strength of Russia�s political leadership, its almost religious conviction that it can obtain its goals, and a willingness to sacrifice for them. The Kremlin demonstrated that a political-military loss in Ukraine has a higher risk than public discontent. Whereas the announcement prompted some street protests and around 300,000 men escaping Russia, the scale was insignificant for a country of 145 million people. Moreover, the discontent only appeared along with the risk of personal obligation and after setbacks on the battlefield. The general criticism is more about the military failures and the conduct of war, not its essence.

Furthermore, the war keeps reproducing support for it. Mobilisation brings the war closer to the population and losses contribute to flaring more hatred towards the �other side�. Putin presents lost troops as heroes who truly lived and died for a purpose, unlike the tens of thousands dying for nothing in traffic or from alcohol. This genuinely speaks to Russian society. Instead of sparking social unrest, drafting 300,000 men is more likely to increase the number of families who genuinely consider this war �their war�. Accordingly, should these men fall on the battlefield, it is the Ukrainians along with their Western supporters who are to blame for their deaths, not Putin. Kremlin is right and honourable to stand up to these belligerents, to the evil West.

It is not how Putin sees the world, but how Russia does. Even if Putin were stopped, the next man in line would not be any different, because Russia is not any different.

Estonian Ministry of Defense

# ? Jul 5, 2023 03:43

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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