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I guess it was Father's Day in the US the other day, I ain't got a reason to notice that, but I find it funny that I read Absalom, Absalom! during it; depicting of course possibly the greatest father fictional or otherwise. Gotta say, Faulkner has me in awe with his prose as much as he has me utterly confounded at what it means, and many times in the same section of text.
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Jun 20, 2023 07:02
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I finished Disgrace on Father's Day, apparently  I forget where this thread stands on Coetzee (I added him to my reading list a couple years ago based on the name being mentioned here) but this and Waiting for the Barbarians are my jam. Neat and spare sentences that one publication called "coiled springs", which I agree with, and of course the blend of darkness and beauty
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Jun 20, 2023 16:32
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Jrbg posted:I'm rarely one to recommend reading twitter threads but this is an interesting one on publishing's constraints on literary style from helen dewitt https://twitter.com/helendewitt/status/1670041048460980225?s=20 Genuinely depressing sometimes how much the publishing industry despises literature.
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Jun 26, 2023 13:48
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Well they're only Anglophone authors so who cares, really.
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Jun 26, 2023 15:19
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Well they're only Anglophone authors so who cares, really. anglophone readers re: non-anglophone authors: "idk the source language but this stilted translation sucks"
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Jun 27, 2023 09:41
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buddy i'm reading a japanese mystery novel in english where one of the lines was "'how long has it been since we've seen each other sensei?' she asked in a distant tone, using the term of respectful address for teachers and masters of any art." you can absolutely say a translation is stilted while not being fluent in the original language
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Jun 27, 2023 12:49
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CestMoi posted:i'm reading a japanese mystery novel there's your issue buddy on a more serious note, your quote seems to me an example of another symptom of the same phenomenon: anglophone publishers tend to baby readers. one example of this is the smoothing out of stylistic friction (see: DeWitt; also happens a lot in translated literature, because god forbid anything reads "stilted" intentionally. and that was my point: editorial disdain for literary style is at least in part a result of readers' intolerance for stylistic inaccessibility). some other examples in translation are editorial omissions of unsavory content and, funnily enough, clumsy inserts to demystify couleur locale (which i would guess is what's happening in the book you're reading) e: to be clear, my point was not that you can't say a translated text is stilted because you don't know the source language. my point was that I believe anglophone readers often unjustly call a stilted translated text a bad translation, which I would guess is one of many reasons why editorial interference is so prevalent in the anglophone publishing world Lex Neville fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Jun 27, 2023 |
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Jun 27, 2023 13:40
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Lex Neville posted:e: to be clear, my point was not that you can't say a translated text is stilted because you don't know the source language. my point was that I believe anglophone readers often unjustly call a stilted translated text a bad translation, which I would guess is one of many reasons why editorial interference is so prevalent in the anglophone publishing world Eh, I don't think it's unfair to criticise translations whose painstaking attempts at reproducing the stylistic nuances of a text ultimately betray its overall effect, which is often what "stilted" corresponds to for the readership in my experience. I don't work in English-language publishing but most of the bad translation jobs I've seen in my language were just the natural byproduct of the difficulty of the compromise between syntactical/lexical faithfulness and the necessity of adapting to a different linguistic structure & cultural context so that a similar aesthetic, emotional, etc. experience to the original could be achieved (rather than a deliberate attempt to smooth out the strangeness or foreignness of the work).
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Jun 27, 2023 14:31
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CestMoi posted:buddy i'm reading a japanese mystery novel in english where one of the lines was "'how long has it been since we've seen each other sensei?' she asked in a distant tone, using the term of respectful address for teachers and masters of any art." you can absolutely say a translation is stilted while not being fluent in the original language Obviously all English translations are poo poo because English is poo poo.
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Jun 27, 2023 17:34
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DeWitt was talking a lot more about punctuation than syntax in that thread
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Jun 28, 2023 11:03
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not really, but even if she was that doesn't rule out interference in other areaslost in postation posted:Eh, I don't think it's unfair to criticise translations whose painstaking attempts at reproducing the stylistic nuances of a text ultimately betray its overall effect, which is often what "stilted" corresponds to for the readership in my experience. I don't think that's unfair either, as long as you're able substantiate such a diagnosis Lex Neville fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Jun 28, 2023 |
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Jun 28, 2023 11:52
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finished the gospel according to jesus by saramago, and his knowledge of the bible was p impressive, though I guess I already knew that from when I read cain some years ago
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Jun 28, 2023 18:10
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Obviously all English translations are poo poo because English is poo poo. And yet you're using English to post. Curious.
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Jun 29, 2023 10:42
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Idiootti posted:And yet you're using English to post. Curious. I also use poo poo to poo poo.
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Jun 29, 2023 15:25
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as someone who's first language isn't english, english is great. you have no idea how good you have it.
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Jul 2, 2023 08:26
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Don't forget to vote for your favorite McCarthy for July BotM! Poll is stickied.
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Jul 2, 2023 15:38
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I just finished Han Kang's Human Acts and it is one of the best books I have ever read. She unflinchingly shows the horror of the Gwangju massacre and the Korean dictatorship and makes the beautiful decision to use the second person, setting you as the reader among the killed. She follows the trauma across years and generations and shows heroism and normal life and so much pain. It's unflinching, it's beautiful, it will absolutely break your heart. A staggering achievement. The Vegetarian was middling but my god what a follow-up book. This will be the best book I read this year I bet.
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Jul 3, 2023 05:43
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Crespolini posted:as someone who's first language isn't english, english is great. you have no idea how good you have it. lol i see youre unfamiliar with jerry
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Jul 3, 2023 21:04
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Crespolini posted:as someone who's first language isn't english, english is great. you have no idea how good you have it. I agree big fan of English here
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Jul 5, 2023 04:11
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Reading Tokarczuk’s Books of Jacob. It’s real good.
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Jul 5, 2023 20:59
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I enjoyed Termush by Sven Holm, which is a 1969 novella about a resort for rich people who want to survive nuclear armageddon in luxury. Very bleak, gave me a real sense of creeping dread, would recommend if you're into that sort of thing
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Jul 5, 2023 22:11
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Volcano posted:I enjoyed Termush by Sven Holm, which is a 1969 novella about a resort for rich people who want to survive nuclear armageddon in luxury. Very bleak, gave me a real sense of creeping dread, would recommend if you're into that sort of thing That sounds not so far away from Miguel de Palol’s The Garden of Seven Twilights
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Jul 5, 2023 22:58
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That reminds me of another Dane, Peter Ronild, whose I morgen kommer paddehatteskyen (tomorrow comes the mushroom cloud) I remember liking. Don't think it's been translated tho
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Jul 5, 2023 23:21
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Ooh nice, I haven't heard of either of those. I'll have to look for them. When I was buying it, the bookshop staff also convinced me to pick up Marlen Haushofer's The Wall, which does sounds like it'll have a similar existential end of the world vibe. I also bought Human Acts thanks to Segue's post so really it'll be cheerful stuff all round, thanks lit thread
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Jul 6, 2023 09:28
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Read Termush last night, very chilling indeed. Especially being relatively privileged before looming climate change 
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Jul 14, 2023 10:08
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I killed a moth with King Lear last night.
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Jul 14, 2023 11:24
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i’m reading compass by mathias enard, it had some really funny moments, especially when the narrator goes on a tirade against richard wagner
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Jul 14, 2023 15:58
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ulvir posted:i’m reading compass by mathias enard, it had some really funny moments, especially when the narrator goes on a tirade against richard wagner I've got that one on my shelf, maybe I'll promote it to the backup reading pile (not the primary reading pile)
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Jul 14, 2023 17:51
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Been reading john ruskin, that reactionary paedophile knew how to write!
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Jul 15, 2023 11:34
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Jrbg posted:that reactionary paedophile knew how to write! Half of this thread's content summarised
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Jul 15, 2023 11:37
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Jrbg posted:Half of this thread's content summarised 
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Jul 15, 2023 12:11
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Quit Being a loving Child and Read Some Real Literature: “that reactionary paedophile knew how to write!”
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Jul 15, 2023 13:30
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Did we ever find out who was occasionally changing this thread's title to "Quit loving a child"
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Jul 15, 2023 17:03
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It was probably a child
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Jul 15, 2023 21:48
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ulvir posted:i’m reading compass by mathias enard, it had some really funny moments, especially when the narrator goes on a tirade against richard wagner that one is good but zone is better
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Jul 16, 2023 01:57
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I just finished The Bell Jar, which I have mixed feelings toward, and now I’m starting Moby-Dick. I hope it’s gay and adventurous.
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Jul 16, 2023 05:19
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It's the gayest adventure ever put to the page. Enjoy!
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Jul 16, 2023 05:23
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Moby-Dick is a ton of fun. I am due for a reread
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Jul 16, 2023 05:24
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Rereading is easy mode because you can skim over some of the whaling material you've read five times already
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Jul 16, 2023 05:27
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But why would you??
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Jul 16, 2023 05:29
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