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FuturePastNow posted:Remember the Deep Space 9 holo communicator they used for two episodes? Everyone was like, "This is loving stupid" diagetically and non-diagetically I have officially watched the first full season of TOS for the first time. That first time travel episode...I get why Temporal Investigations loving hates Kirk
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Jul 5, 2023 15:39
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zoux posted:Everyone was like, "This is loving stupid" diagetically and non-diagetically Honestly, it worked pretty well when they used it in Sisko's office, if they'd had it as an office/ready room thing that would've been fine, especially if it's just a person sitting down across the desk. It was just on the bridge it sucked.
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Jul 5, 2023 15:50
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FuturePastNow posted:Remember the Deep Space 9 holo communicator they used for two episodes? remember when they did basically the same thing in discovery despite it being new to the 24th century?
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Jul 5, 2023 16:04
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I love how much Sisko hates Eddington because that's also how much I hate Eddington
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Jul 5, 2023 16:06
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Beeftweeter posted:remember when they did basically the same thing in discovery despite it being new to the 24th century? I just assumed that it's the holo equivalent of VR goggles, where it gets popular every 30 years or so before dying again.
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Jul 5, 2023 16:08
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Eighties ZomCom posted:I just assumed that it's the holo equivalent of VR goggles, where it gets popular every 30 years or so before dying again. Yeah, Pike is even like "didn't work this time, either, and it hosed up my ship, try again next generation."
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Jul 5, 2023 16:13
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it's even a pretty major plot point in season 2, the section 31 control ai thing uses it to simulate a bunch of admirals or something
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Jul 5, 2023 16:19
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zoux posted:Everyone was like, "SHUT THAT THING OFF" diagetically and non-diagetically 
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Jul 5, 2023 17:18
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Eighties ZomCom posted:It was kind of weird that shows set after the TNG era went out of their way to show that hologram tech seems to have gotten worse over time. When they aren't flickering randomly, they're dumb as rocks and can apparently be disabled by blinking at them, and that was a flaw that was apparently around for 900 years. I feel like that's Trek forgetting that it's not Star Wars. Star Wars holograms are lovely and flickery and staticky because everything about Star Wars is that it's a universe where everything is worn-down and breaking for the aesthetic. Star Trek is supposed to be about the fancy technology of the future all working great. But modern audiences are less awed by such things and modern showrunners are less interested in trying to dream of a better future, so they go off in weird directions instead. Enterprise on the other hand, was Star Trek forgetting it wasn't Stargate.
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Jul 5, 2023 17:38
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disaster pastor posted:Yeah, Pike is even like "didn't work this time, either, and it hosed up my ship, try again next generation." Yeah, Una has like one line of dialogue that is just "We ripped out all the holograms boss"
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Jul 5, 2023 17:39
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SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like that's Trek forgetting that it's not Star Wars. Well, more generally, it's that Star Wars has set how things are in sci-fi. Holograms in sci-fi are flickery and transparent because Star Wars made them flickery so that's just how they are, and the new Star Trek just made Standard Issue Sci-fi holograms.
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Jul 5, 2023 17:45
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FuturePastNow posted:Remember the Deep Space 9 holo communicator they used for two episodes? I randomly watched one of these the other day and I guess I’m dumb, but for a moment I just didn’t understand what was going on. I was like… so Gul Dukat (I think that’s who it was) is just standing there on the bridge of the Defiant, threatening Sisko and his people?! I figured it out quickly but I was very confused for a moment.
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Jul 5, 2023 17:48
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MikeJF posted:Well, more generally, it's that Star Wars has set how things are in sci-fi. Holograms in sci-fi are flickery and transparent because Star Wars made them flickery so that's just how they are, and the new Star Trek just made Standard Issue Sci-fi holograms. Now with Medical Degrees
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Jul 5, 2023 17:48
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MikeJF posted:Well, more generally, it's that Star Wars has set how things are in sci-fi. Holograms in sci-fi are flickery and transparent because Star Wars made them flickery so that's just how they are, and the new Star Trek just made Standard Issue Sci-fi holograms. In-universe, I'd want some stylistic signifier to serve as a reminder that what I'm looking at is a hologram. If they didn't want to ape Star Wars, give it a subtle border around the volume or something. Maybe it doesn't matter so much to someone used to playing in the holodeck, but a 3d visual communicator where the person I'm talking to is indistinguishable from what I'd see if they were in the room would feel unsettling to me. Maybe just for the holocomm and things like the ready room table from early TNG, not for the EMH or anything like that.
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Jul 5, 2023 18:09
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Perhaps some kind of mark they could wear on their forehead...
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Jul 5, 2023 18:11
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Honestly all it would take is a nearly perfect image/actor in scene that increases in chromatic aberration as the camera moves around to remind you that it's not a physical object.
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Jul 5, 2023 18:14
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Discovery’s far-future consciousness projection holograms actually look really cool when they’re not glitching out for no reason. Rather than being transparent, they’ve instead got a weird shine to them, like you’re looking at them through a prism.
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Jul 5, 2023 18:15
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SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like that's Trek forgetting that it's not Star Wars. Star Wars holograms are lovely and flickery and staticky because everything about Star Wars is that it's a universe where everything is worn-down and breaking for the aesthetic. Star Trek is supposed to be about the fancy technology of the future all working great. But modern audiences are less awed by such things and modern showrunners are less interested in trying to dream of a better future, so they go off in weird directions instead. Star Wars broken down aesthetic wasn't intentional. Entropy was just extremely high in the late 60s and 70s so everything was just constantly breaking down and stuff look old as poo poo seconds after being made even when it was still technically brand new.
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Jul 5, 2023 18:16
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Lemniscate Blue posted:In-universe, I'd want some stylistic signifier to serve as a reminder that what I'm looking at is a hologram. If they didn't want to ape Star Wars, give it a subtle border around the volume or something. If I recall, in the second use on DS9 they had the admiral lit with lights that weren't in Sisko's office quote:Maybe it doesn't matter so much to someone used to playing in the holodeck, but a 3d visual communicator where the person I'm talking to is indistinguishable from what I'd see if they were in the room would feel unsettling to me. Well that would be kinda the point, really. If it pops someone in in your office so, like, you're in your chair on one side of the table and they're in theirs on the other side, it's like an in-person meeting without being distracted by visual artifacts or any conceptual barrier between you. (Plus that'd be cheap to shoot. One you've done the phase-in shot you can just have both actors in the room.) That said, I could easily see a cultural tradition becoming established where projections are always visually distinguished with X method so everyone can recognise them. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jul 5, 2023 |
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Jul 5, 2023 18:40
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Another thing I was interested in in watching TOS is that they don't even mention the Federation until Arena, before that the things they say about the political situation of the era conflict significantly. In fact the bad guys in the Corbomite Maneuver are called the Federation! You don't see other starfleet ships until Court Martial, space feels so empty and remote, I understand why it was pitched as Wagon Train to the stars, it really is like they are on the frontier. It's kind of interesting how trekkies are arguably the most continuity obsessed fandom while the original series just did not give a gently caress about world building.
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Jul 5, 2023 20:37
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Now we know why Kirk sent Bailey along with Balok: he was a corporate spy discovering trade secrets from the First Federation that could be stolen.
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Jul 5, 2023 20:39
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Also they need to vet their navigator position better, everyone in that seat ends up loving up or gaining cosmic omnipotence.
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Jul 5, 2023 20:41
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In a similar way to how Jedi Masters should have batting averages based on how many of their pupils end up falling to the Dark Side. I'm not sure either Yoda or Obi Wan would have great WARs.
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Jul 5, 2023 20:47
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:In a similar way to how Jedi Masters should have batting averages based on how many of their pupils end up falling to the Dark Side. I'm not sure either Yoda or Obi Wan would have great WARs. The actual stat is PAR - Padawans Are Replaced
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Jul 5, 2023 20:49
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zoux posted:Another thing I was interested in in watching TOS is that they don't even mention the Federation until Arena, before that the things they say about the political situation of the era conflict significantly. In fact the bad guys in the Corbomite Maneuver are called the Federation! You don't see other starfleet ships until Court Martial, space feels so empty and remote, I understand why it was pitched as Wagon Train to the stars, it really is like they are on the frontier. This is why I don't give a poo poo about anything contradicting TOS. There was no attempt at a consistent canon until later so why bend yourself into knots trying to make TOS something it wasn't?
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Jul 5, 2023 20:55
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Now we know why Kirk sent Bailey along with Balok: he was a corporate spy discovering trade secrets from the First Federation that could be stolen. As soon as Bailey got Balok to give him access to the computers, he snuck up behind him: *snap-snap* "heh, nothin' personel kid" "and by the way, I hate tranya"
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Jul 5, 2023 21:53
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bailey definitely used that puppet to gently caress with some romulans or something
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Jul 5, 2023 22:19
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zoux posted:Another thing I was interested in in watching TOS is that they don't even mention the Federation until Arena, before that the things they say about the political situation of the era conflict significantly. In fact the bad guys in the Corbomite Maneuver are called the Federation! You don't see other starfleet ships until Court Martial, space feels so empty and remote, I understand why it was pitched as Wagon Train to the stars, it really is like they are on the frontier. It's very easy to obsessively memorize details and collate facts, it's much harder to pick up and analyze the series's "vibe" and reproduce that. With the way that TV in general developed in the last 20 years, I feel like things got more and more stacked against trying to do something like the original series over time anyways. There are some cool things you can get from worldbuilding building on top of other worldbuilding over time as writers create things that start to stand out in the franchise, but there's definitely a lot less freedom. MikeJF posted:Well, more generally, it's that Star Wars has set how things are in sci-fi. Holograms in sci-fi are flickery and transparent because Star Wars made them flickery so that's just how they are, and the new Star Trek just made Standard Issue Sci-fi holograms. The original trilogy was already done by the time TNG, DS9, and Voyager came out, and I'm not sure there even was any hologram stuff in the original series. I guess another explanation is just the fact that TV budgets and sfx costs are at the point where they can add these ridiculous flourishes and just because they can. I think there's a similar thing with the Star Wars franchise, where since the sequel trilogy had technology could add in a more robotic-looking hand, Luke at some point traded in his near-perfect simulacrum hand with fake skin for a rusty, lovely robot hand. And of course, the only reason you'd ever want a transluscent holographic user interface with lots of randomly moving bits and bops is if you had a big sfx budget that you needed to burn, but I don't know who invented that aesthetic. I guess Babylon 5 had a bit of it where they purposefully projected weird complex patterns from its CRT screens that you would see reflected on actors' faces.
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Jul 5, 2023 23:05
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:at least TV is finally over dumb holograms 
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Jul 6, 2023 01:47
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Grand Fromage posted:This is why I don't give a poo poo about anything contradicting TOS. There was no attempt at a consistent canon until later so why bend yourself into knots trying to make TOS something it wasn't? SlothfulCobra posted:I guess another explanation is just the fact that TV budgets and sfx costs are at the point where they can add these ridiculous flourishes and just because they can. I think there's a similar thing with the Star Wars franchise, where since the sequel trilogy had technology could add in a more robotic-looking hand, Luke at some point traded in his near-perfect simulacrum hand with fake skin for a rusty, lovely robot hand.
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Jul 6, 2023 02:25
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Okay, after my recent Ferengi-bashing ignorance and the following thread pushback, I’ve been rewatching Ferengi episodes. And House of Quark is an all-timer. It made me LOL several times. “Enter, Husband!!!”
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Jul 6, 2023 06:06
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Quark trying to explain financial documents to the high council is one of my favorite scenes ever.
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Jul 6, 2023 06:23
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davidspackage posted:"and by the way, I hate tranya" Impossible!!
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Jul 6, 2023 07:00
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Grand Fromage posted:Quark trying to explain financial documents to the high council is one of my favorite scenes ever. Also the way Gowron struggles to say his name, there's just so much disgust in his face. "And Grilka's house will now be referred to as the House of Quirk." "Actually it's 'Quark'" "The house of.... Quaaaaark *stares at him wildly*"
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Jul 6, 2023 07:53
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BioEnchanted posted:Also the way Gowron struggles to say his name, there's just so much disgust in his face. "And Grilka's house will now be referred to as the House of Quirk." "Actually it's 'Quark'" "The house of.... Quaaaaark *stares at him wildly*" Haha, yeah. The whole episode was glorious. I am now watching “Bar Exam” I think now my Ferengi-hatred came from the TNG episodes, where I do not think they were portrayed in quite the same way. I used to get tired of the ear-as-erogenous-zones jokes. DS9 is really, really rich IMO. More so than anything that came before. Maybe more so than anything that came after. And I’m a TOS homer.
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Jul 6, 2023 08:03
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Grand Fromage posted:Quark trying to explain financial documents to the high council is one of my favorite scenes ever. Yeah Gowron doing Gowron eyes at a spreadsheet is a great sight gag What's y'all's favorite (non-Lower Decks) Star Trek gag? Mine is probably Barclay giving a bravura rehearsal performance in Nth Degree to a fully weeping Beverly Crusher. Or any of the Dukat stuff from Civil Defense.
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Jul 6, 2023 14:12
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Worf activating Odo's trap card after he goes to complain about his quarters being robbed, he just savours being a dick so much
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Jul 6, 2023 14:19
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Grand Fromage posted:Quark trying to explain financial documents to the high council is one of my favorite scenes ever. INCREDIBLE use of the bug eyes in that scene by Rob O'Reilly
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Jul 6, 2023 14:20
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Quark and Rom taking a wrong turn in Quark's smuggler tunnels in "The Magnificent Ferengi" and Sisko deadpanning "May I help you, gentlemen?" when they emerge in his office.
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Jul 6, 2023 14:20
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zoux posted:Yeah Gowron doing Gowron eyes at a spreadsheet is a great sight gag 
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Jul 6, 2023 14:28
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