Convicted Felon Donald Trump Legal Troubles: Trump Wins Unanimous Vote

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Convicted Felon Donald Trump Legal Troubles: Trump Wins Unanimous Vote

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Lammasu: May 8, 2019; lawful Good Monster

Raldikuk posted:

Certainly warrants an interview at the very least.

Jack Smith won't get out of bed unless you have audio recording of Trump admitting to at least three felonies.

# ? Jul 1, 2023 20:40

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 20:11

Caros: May 14, 2008

Lammasu posted:

Jack Smith won't get out of bed unless you have audio recording of Trump admitting to at least three felonies.

This actually seems fairly reasonable.

If I've got a fresh diet coke in front of me I'm not going to walk all the way over there for more of the same.

# ? Jul 1, 2023 21:45

Simplex: Jun 29, 2003

Grip it and rip it posted:

I would think having a Republican Governor testify about the call he received would be incredibly compelling evidence...

His conversations with Pence are hearsay, and they've already interviewed Pence. If Trump said something to him, there isn't really anything stopping him from volunteering that information.

# ? Jul 1, 2023 22:16

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

Simplex posted:

His conversations with Pence are hearsay, and they've already interviewed Pence. If Trump said something to him, there isn't really anything stopping him from volunteering that information.

He is volunteering that information, thats exactly what his statement was about.

# ? Jul 2, 2023 00:05

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

Apparently Lin Wood has agreed to retire and not practice law again to avoid being disbarred.

Awfully nice to give that corrupt rear end a sweet face saving parachute after indefensibly abusing his professional obligations.

The whole kraken team should be facing perjury charges for knowingly filing false statements with the courts. MAGA land still thinks Terpsichore and Spyders nonsense had merit.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 15:38

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Murgos posted:

Apparently Lin Wood has agreed to retire and not practice law again to avoid being disbarred.

Awfully nice to give that corrupt rear end a sweet face saving parachute after indefensibly abusing his professional obligations.

The whole kraken team should be facing perjury charges for knowingly filing false statements with the courts. MAGA land still thinks Terpsichore and Spyders nonsense had merit.

They'd think it if they were disbarred, too, with an additional helping of how they got got by 'the Deep State.'

# ? Jul 5, 2023 16:25

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

Murgos posted:

Apparently Lin Wood has agreed to retire and not practice law again to avoid being disbarred.

Awfully nice to give that corrupt rear end a sweet face saving parachute after indefensibly abusing his professional obligations.

The whole kraken team should be facing perjury charges for knowingly filing false statements with the courts. MAGA land still thinks Terpsichore and Spyders nonsense had merit.

Not sure what exactly you want here. Should they deny retirement to proceed with disbarment proceedings? This is as close to a direct admission of fault that I think they're gonna get.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 19:08

Guest2553: Aug 3, 2012

I think it's more the perception that if investigations are inconvenient enough, you can get away with very egregious poo poo. To paraphrase Michael Scott, you miss finding 100% of the mycrimes.txt logs you don't search for.

Compare and contrast to the keelhauling poor and racialized people have for merely existing. That doesn't seem great for legitimately!

# ? Jul 5, 2023 19:23

PhantomOfTheCopier: Aug 13, 2008; Pikabooze!

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/110663249322897070 (sorry)

Isn't this like an immediate defamation suit? "Does anybody believe the cocaine is for the use of anyone other than Hunter and Joe... Or jack smith?"

They already announced that security tapes aren't likely to reveal the source, because it may have just fallen out of a pocket. Meanwhile two of the three people mentioned probably aren't even in that hallway (or building?) very often, and the third probably has a different route to get to their office.

It's not seditious libel these days to attack the President, but it still seems like plain libel.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 22:07

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/110663249322897070 (sorry)

Isn't this like an immediate defamation suit? "Does anybody believe the cocaine is for the use of anyone other than Hunter and Joe... Or jack smith?"

They already announced that security tapes aren't likely to reveal the source, because it may have just fallen out of a pocket. Meanwhile two of the three people mentioned probably aren't even in that hallway (or building?) very often, and the third probably has a different route to get to their office.

It's not seditious libel these days to attack the President, but it still seems like plain libel.

Trump's been making all kinds of accusations against the Bidens for years, I don't see why this is any worse than the rest.

Also, a presidential candidate suing their upcoming opponent for defamation is an incredibly thin-skinned move that would basically guarantee defeat in 2024.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 22:13

Civilized Fishbot: Apr 3, 2011

Main Paineframe posted:

Also, a presidential candidate suing their upcoming opponent for defamation is an incredibly thin-skinned move that would basically guarantee defeat in 2024.

The one exception is that Trump specifically could get away with doing it because being a thin-skinned chronic litigant is part of his brand.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 22:14

Nitrousoxide: May 30, 2011; do not buy a oneplus phone

PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/110663249322897070 (sorry)

Isn't this like an immediate defamation suit? "Does anybody believe the cocaine is for the use of anyone other than Hunter and Joe... Or jack smith?"

They already announced that security tapes aren't likely to reveal the source, because it may have just fallen out of a pocket. Meanwhile two of the three people mentioned probably aren't even in that hallway (or building?) very often, and the third probably has a different route to get to their office.

It's not seditious libel these days to attack the President, but it still seems like plain libel.

False accusations of crimes are indeed one of the types of libel/defamation.

I really doubt Biden would sue Trump over it though.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 22:17

Fork of Unknown Origins: Oct 21, 2005; Gotta Herd On?

Is the statement an actual accusation though? It seems to tread the line by saying �does anyone think it�s anyone other�� where yes it�s clear what is being implicated but does that rise to the level of libel?

Edit: it�s irrelevant because Biden wouldn�t sue anyway but I was just curious if this is one of those things where phrasing it that way changes the status.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 22:19

The Question IRL: Jun 8, 2013; Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

Is the statement an actual accusation though? It seems to tread the line by saying “does anyone think it’s anyone other…” where yes it’s clear what is being implicated but does that rise to the level of libel?

Edit: it’s irrelevant because Biden wouldn’t sue anyway but I was just curious if this is one of those things where phrasing it that way changes the status.

Arguably it rises to Innuendo, where it is not literally accusing some of using drugs but the meaning is so obvious that it does identify the parties.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 22:57

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

The interesting thing to me about that kinda talk is that in the first hundred years or so of the Republic it would have led to a duel. Hamilton fought Burr over less.

# ? Jul 5, 2023 23:05

PhantomOfTheCopier: Aug 13, 2008; Pikabooze!

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

The interesting thing to me about that kinda talk is that in the first hundred years or so of the Republic it would have led to a duel. Hamilton fought Burr over less.

Exactly. The early Sedition Acts were quite aggressive about speech against the government, but those didn't survive long because of the first amendment. Later came https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan which "limit(s) the ability of American public officials to sue for defamation".

Even more :laugh:

is that someone on the Supreme Court doesn't like it. https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/27/politics/clarence-thomas-first-amendment-libel-new-york-times-supreme-court/index.html

Indeed it seems a silly case, difficult for Biden to quantify any monetary impact, but seems to rise quite close given that it's a blatant lie and attack on character. According to the Clarence interpretation, it's much worse and T should definitely be in prison.

"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself!"

# ? Jul 5, 2023 23:56

ryde: Sep 9, 2011; God I love young girls

If I've learned anything from law-talking-people its that a defamation case is really, really hard to win in the US, especially if you're a public figure like a president, and that they're almost never worth your time/money.

# ? Jul 6, 2023 00:01

ben shapino: Nov 22, 2020

That statement isn't anywhere close to being slander or libel lol

# ? Jul 6, 2023 00:04

Pillowpants: Aug 5, 2006

I�lost a defamation case.

# ? Jul 6, 2023 00:10

16-bit Butt-Head: Dec 25, 2014

it appears i posted in the wrong trump thread mb

16-bit Butt-Head fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jul 6, 2023

# ? Jul 6, 2023 01:12

Adhemar: Jan 21, 2004; Kellner, da ist ein scheussliches Biest in meiner Suppe.

16-bit Butt-Head posted:

2000 posts since i last looked at this thread... SHUT UP

That�s exactly what Trump won�t do, so that�s why.

# ? Jul 6, 2023 02:20

PhantomOfTheCopier: Aug 13, 2008; Pikabooze!

A hundred pages of "nothing matters" has a way of ensuring several hundred pages of follow-up.

Oh look. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/07/06/trump-trial-poll-ipsos-00104772

P posted:

most Americans — including a large number of Republicans, who the former president is currently courting for his 2024 campaign — believe that the trial in the pending federal case against Trump for mishandling classified documents should occur before the GOP primaries and well before the general election.

... roughly half of the country believes that Trump committed the crimes alleged against him.

Forty-nine percent of respondents — including 25 percent of Republicans — said that they believe Trump is guilty in the pending federal prosecution, which alleges that he willfully retained sensitive government documents after leaving office...

Nearly two-thirds of respondents (62 percent) said that the trial in the pending federal prosecution should take place before the presidential election next November — a figure that includes nearly half of Republican respondents (46 percent). A lower number, but a still-solid majority, said that the trial should take place before the Republican primaries begin early next year (57 percent of all respondents, including 42 percent of Republican respondents).

What should happen to Trump if he gets convicted? Forty three percent said he should go to prison...

41 percent of all respondents — said that a conviction in either the federal case or the Manhattan DA’s case would make them less likely to support the former president. (28% of Rs, 31% of independents)

# ? Jul 6, 2023 12:33

gregday: May 23, 2003

https://twitter.com/dsamuelsohn/status/1676953601573539840

# ? Jul 6, 2023 15:19

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Trump aide Walt Nauta pleads not guilty in classified documents case

quote:

Walt Nauta, the longtime aide to former President Donald Trump who was charged alongside him in the special counsel's classified documents case, pleaded not guilty to all charges Thursday at his arraignment in Miami.

Nauta, who first worked for Trump in the White House before accompanying him to Florida following Trump's presidency, is facing six counts as part of the criminal case involving Trump's handling of classified documents. The charges include conspiracy to obstruct justice and making false statements.

The longtime aide appeared in a Miami federal courthouse Thursday after his arraignment was repeatedly delayed due in part to his inability to obtain local counsel to represent him. His plea was entered by Trump attorney Stan Woodward, and Nauta was represented by Woodward and local Florida attorney Sasha Dadan.

# ? Jul 6, 2023 18:09

bird food bathtub: Aug 9, 2003; College Slice

I feel like maybe letting the boss that throws people under the bus on the regular pay for your legal representation in a federal case he is also involved in might not be the best move but I guess I'm just not smart enough to be a diet coke delivery boy for our big, wet, president.

# ? Jul 6, 2023 18:13

Nervous: Jan 25, 2005; Why, hello, my little slice of pecan pie.

bird food bathtub posted:

I feel like maybe letting the boss that throws people under the bus on the regular pay for your legal representation in a federal case he is also involved in might not be the best move but I guess I'm just not smart enough to be a diet coke delivery boy for our big, wet, president.

You want to learn how to get thrown under the bus the best, you go to the best.

# ? Jul 6, 2023 18:22

Angry_Ed: Mar 30, 2010; Grimey Drawer

bird food bathtub posted:

I feel like maybe letting the boss that throws people under the bus on the regular pay for your legal representation in a federal case he is also involved in might not be the best move but I guess I'm just not smart enough to be a diet coke delivery boy for our big, wet, president.

Especially when he has a habit of not paying people.

# ? Jul 6, 2023 19:07

cr0y: Mar 24, 2005

"I'LL be the guy that trump finally sticks up for! I'm special!"

# ? Jul 6, 2023 19:09

PortobelloPirate: Jul 5, 2023

Angry_Ed posted:

Especially when he has a habit of not paying people.

What kind of money is even worth risking a federal prison sentence?

# ? Jul 6, 2023 19:49

cr0y: Mar 24, 2005

PortobelloPirate posted:

What kind of money is even worth risking a federal prison sentence?

I'd risk a couple years for 8 figgies

# ? Jul 6, 2023 19:53

Angry_Ed: Mar 30, 2010; Grimey Drawer

PortobelloPirate posted:

What kind of money is even worth risking a federal prison sentence?

$64.8 Billion if we asked Bernie Madoff (of course, he's dead, so we can't :v:

)

# ? Jul 6, 2023 20:11

PhantomOfTheCopier: Aug 13, 2008; Pikabooze!

Doesn't this mean that Nuanta basically just ran down the clock on flipping? The only plea bargain remaining now seems to be, "Naaa you had weeks, you jerked us around, you have your right to speedy trial and we're going through the whole thing now espionage boy, but if you want to switch your plea to guilty go ahead and we'll recommend 27yr instead of 87 :commissar:

# ? Jul 6, 2023 23:21

smackfu: Jun 7, 2004

Plenty of plea bargains happen between indictment and trial. Many defendants get no advance notice of the indictment and just get arrested.

# ? Jul 6, 2023 23:31

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

bird food bathtub posted:

I feel like maybe letting the boss that throws people under the bus on the regular pay for your legal representation in a federal case he is also involved in might not be the best move but I guess I'm just not smart enough to be a diet coke delivery boy for our big, wet, president.

Some prominent NatSec lawyers have been saying they would represent Nauta pro-bono under the condition that he agrees that defense is completely severed from Trumps.

The presumption being that once he�s out from under Trumps influence it would be trivial to show him that a plea deal would be in his best interest. No one would condemn Smith for giving Nauta immunity in exchange for his first person testimony to participating in criming.

# ? Jul 7, 2023 01:24

Dr. Faustus: Feb 18, 2001; Grimey Drawer

New details trickle out, things like how frequently and how much certain lawyers have cooperated with the DC Grand Jury. I wonder if Smith will indict before Willis does in the first 1/3rd of August?

Newest reporting:

quote:

Exclusive: Special counsel prosecutors question witnesses about chaotic Oval Office meeting after Trump lost the 2020 election

Special counsel Jack Smith�s team has signaled a continued interest in a chaotic Oval Office meeting that took place in the final days of the Trump administration, during which the former president considered some of the most desperate proposals to keep him in power over objections from his White House counsel.

Multiple sources told CNN that investigators have asked several witnesses before the grand jury and during interviews about the meeting, which happened about six weeks after Donald Trump lost the 2020 election. Some witnesses were asked about the meeting months ago, while several others have faced questions about it more recently, including Rudy Giuliani.

Last month, for two consecutive days, Giuliani sat down with investigators for a voluntary interview about a range of topics, including the tumultuous December 2020 meeting that he attended, sources said.

Prosecutors have specifically inquired about three outside Trump advisers who participated in the meeting: former Trump lawyer Sidney Powell, one-time national security adviser Michael Flynn and former Overstock CEO Patrick Byrne, sources said.

Giuliani�s lawyer, Robert Costello, declined to comment.

A lawyer for Powell declined to comment, as did a lawyer for Byrne. CNN has also reached out to an attorney for Flynn for comment.

Both Powell and Byrne previously spoke at length under oath about the meeting and other topics to the House committee that investigated the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol. Flynn declined to answer questions in his committee interview, by asserting his Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination.

The special counsel�s sustained interest in the chaotic episode comes as Smith�s team appears to be nearing charging decisions in the investigation into efforts to overturn the election results. Investigators are still gathering evidence, reaching out to several new witnesses in recent weeks and working to schedule interviews.

During the heated Oval Office meeting on December 18, 2020, outside advisers faced off with top West Wing attorneys over a plan to have the military seize voting machines in crucial states that Trump had lost. They also discussed naming Powell as special counsel to investigate supposed voter fraud, and Trump invoking martial law as part of his efforts to overturn the election.

Shouting and insults ensued; the night ended with Trump tweeting that a coming gathering in Washington, DC, on January 6, 2021, to protest the election results �will be wild.�

Among the witnesses questioned by the special counsel�s team was former national security adviser Robert O�Brien, who told the January 6 House select committee that he was patched into the December 18 meeting by phone after it had already devolved into a screaming match between Flynn, Powell and White House lawyers, according to a transcript of O�Brien�s deposition that was released by the panel.

Details about subsequent secret grand jury testimony and closed-door interviews illustrate how the special counsel and his prosecutors are looking at the various ways Trump tried to overturn his electoral loss despite some of his top officials advising him against the ideas.

The consistent emphasis on the December 18 Oval Office meeting appears to overlap with the special counsel�s broader effort to hone in on the actions of several Trump lawyers and allies during the period from December 14, 2020, to January 6, 2021.

The December 14 date is of particular interest to prosecutors, sources told CNN. On that day, slates of alternate Republican electors in seven battleground states signed certificates falsely asserting Trump had won. Also that day, members of the Electoral College met in all 50 states to officially cast their ballots, declaring Joe Biden the winner with 306 electoral votes to Trump�s 232.

Investigators have focused on efforts to recruit the illegitimate electors, have them sign certificates falsely asserting Trump had won, and then use them as a pretense to pressure then-Vice President Mike Pence to delay certification of Biden�s Electoral College win on January 6.

At least one witness has told prosecutors in recent weeks that Trump allies asked Pence to question the legitimacy of Biden�s electors in those seven states based on unfounded claims about widespread voter fraud and kick the decision of certification back to the states themselves, one source said.

Rusty Bowers testified as well:

quote:

Arizona secretary of state�s office subpoenaed in special counsel probe into 2020 election interference

Special counsel Jack Smith issued a subpoena to the Arizona secretary of state�s office in May as part of the ongoing criminal probe related to efforts to overturn the 2020 election, CNN has confirmed.

Adrian Fontes� office has complied with the subpoena, which was received through outside counsel, a spokesperson for the secretary of state said Thursday.

Fontes told CNN�s Erin Burnett Thursday evening that the subpoena sought records related to two lawsuits filed following the 2020 election, one brought by the Trump campaign and another filed by then-Arizona GOP Chair Kelli Ward, who promoted former President Donald Trump�s baseless election fraud claims.

�It was just another one of the random, various and � frivolous lawsuits that were filed all over the United States of America in the feeble and misguided attempt to overturn an American election,� Fontes said of the case involving Ward.

Fontes also revealed that the May subpoena was one of two received by his office. The office received an initial subpoena in late December, he said.

The May subpoena, first reported earlier this week by the Arizona Republic, adds to what�s known about the special counsel�s probe as investigators have recently zeroed in on the efforts to put forward alternate slates of electors in seven states Donald Trump lost, including Arizona. Trump and his allies also waged legal battles claiming election fraud in the state.

The news comes after a former top Republican official in Arizona, who rejected pressure from Trump and his allies following the former president�s 2020 election defeat, told CNN Wednesday night that he has spoken with the FBI as part of the same ongoing criminal investigation.

Former Arizona House Speaker Rusty Bowers revealed the interview with investigators lasted four hours and took place a few months ago.

�I am hesitant to talk about any subpoenas, et cetera. But I have been interviewed by the FBI,� Bowers told CNN�s Kaitlan Collins, when asked whether he had been subpoenaed.

In recent weeks, federal investigators have focused on Trump�s efforts, as well as those of his top lawyers as they organized fake electors to submit votes to Congress on his behalf and as they sought to sway then-Vice President Mike Pence into blocking the election result.

CNN previously reported investigators secured evidence and testimony from fake electors in Nevada, Georgia�s secretary of state and various election offices in battleground states � indicating the breadth of Smith�s work to date.

Dr. Faustus fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Jul 7, 2023

# ? Jul 7, 2023 04:43

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Attorney disciplinary committee recommends Rudy Giuliani be disbarred for 2020 election legal work

quote:

An attorney disciplinary committee has recommended Rudy Giuliani be disbarred in Washington, DC, for his efforts on behalf of then-President Donald Trump to overturn the 2020 election results.

The committee, which weighs cases of legal ethics and attorney misconduct in the District of Columbia, issued the report and recommendation on Giuliani on Friday following a lawyer misconduct hearing for Giuliani in December that functioned like a trial.

�He claimed massive election fraud but had no evidence of it,� the committee wrote. �By prosecuting that destructive case Mr. Giuliani, a sworn officer of the Court, forfeited his right to practice law. He should be disbarred.�

The panel�s recommendation is not final; the case against Giuliani still must be considered by DC�s Board on Professional Responsibility and by the DC court of appeals.

The committee specifically criticized Giuliani for dishonesty following the 2020 election and what they called �calculated� attempts to undermine trust in elections, when he falsely claimed in a Pennsylvania federal court there had been election fraud that could overturn Joe Biden�s win of the state.

�Mr. Giuliani has not acknowledged or accepted responsibility for his misconduct. To the contrary, he has declared his indignation over being subjected to the disciplinary process,� the committee wrote in its report. �We are convinced that a sanction must be enhanced to ensure that it adequately deters both Respondent (Giuliani) and other attorneys from acting similarly in the future.�

The three-person committee, comprised of two attorneys and a member of the public, was unanimous in recommending Giuliani be disbarred.

# ? Jul 7, 2023 19:16

BigglesSWE: Dec 2, 2014; How 'bout them hawks news huh!

He could�ve skated through life by being the mayor of NYC at its craziest day in history, lmao

# ? Jul 7, 2023 19:19

Uglycat: Dec 4, 2000; MORE INDISPUTABLE PROOF I AM BAD AT POSTING
---------------->

PortobelloPirate posted:

What kind of money is even worth risking a federal prison sentence?

I meet a person while traveling that was a fugitive. Well, i meet a few, but this one in particular...

He got "made an example of" for having one tab of lsd. He was handed a long federal sentance. In jail, he was an unwilling visitor in an inhospitable place. In prison, he had his own furnished apartment with his (few) personal affects. He did a lot of meditation and internalized his incarceration, becoming sparkly-eyed and 'grateful' to the feds that busted him and the jailors that held him. He turned bootlicker, maybe even snitch.

A little later on, he was walking to a van just past the front gate every morning, to engage in labor.

One morning, he exited the gate, noticed the van's driver was distracted by his phone, and kept on walking. After a fairly dramatic day, he was picked up by an ally and has been travelling since.

He still (well, last time i seen him was almost 4 years ago) says prison was great for him, with a look in his eyes like a cult victim.

I'd do a year for 50k. I think i could hold it together, and that would be the most money I've ever made in a12 month period.

# ? Jul 7, 2023 19:30

projecthalaxy: Dec 27, 2008; Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son

Its probably a good idea and I'm sure common and ties into like jury trials, but I love the panel of two trained attorneys and Literally Some Dude deciding Giuliani should be disbarred.

# ? Jul 7, 2023 19:31

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 20:11

jarlywarly: Aug 31, 2018

Turns out the dude was Trump

# ? Jul 7, 2023 19:57

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Convicted Felon Donald Trump Legal Troubles: Trump Wins Unanimous Vote

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