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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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mlmp08 posted:Yeah, it was primarily a labor and contract dispute between a PMC and the Russian government. But that's not the same as just a coordinated media op to trick outsiders. It might also have been to expose anyone who might not be totally loyal. Oh snipe! 
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Jul 6, 2023 17:29
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spacetoaster posted:It might also have been to expose anyone who might not be totally loyal. Pretty extreme op if that was the case. Being so publicly scared of disloyalty that you sacrifice an IL-22 and a helicopter or maybe more than one is a bit over the top.
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Jul 6, 2023 17:31
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I wouldn't let the IAEA look at anything that is any way sensitive
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Jul 6, 2023 17:32
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mlmp08 posted:Pretty extreme op if that was the case. Being so publicly scared of disloyalty that you sacrifice an IL-22 and a helicopter or maybe more than one is a bit over the top. Well the fact that the dude is already back in Russia, hanging out with friends, doesn't really lend itself to the "dude who tried to coup Putin" narrative.
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Jul 6, 2023 17:33
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Like it would be so lovely if you're in the Russian air force and lost a bunch of coworkers and at least one pretty rare aircraft and then was told "don't worry, it was all just a trick to fool people, RIP your coworkers." I guess such is life, if that was the case. I think it's more likely that it was a contract/labor dispute that got way out of hand before they came to a deal and their senses.
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Jul 6, 2023 17:34
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spacetoaster posted:Well the fact that the dude is already back in Russia, hanging out with friends, doesn't really lend itself to the "dude who tried to coup Putin" narrative. Yeah, I never said it was a coup. A labor dispute is not a coup.
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Jul 6, 2023 17:34
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the special operation seems to be a labor dispute between russia and ukraine
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Jul 6, 2023 17:35
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spacetoaster posted:Well the fact that the dude is already back in Russia, hanging out with friends, doesn't really lend itself to the "dude who tried to coup Putin" narrative. The photo of the “IL-22” being shot down was a 2 engine not 4 engine plane (the il-22 is a 4 engine plane) and footage of the theoretical wreckage has been contradictory and unrecognizable (at least one image may have been reused from another crash). The area where it was supposedly shot down was also off the highway and not within Panstir range. The helicopter wreckage is also similar in its lack of clarity. Otherwise, supposedly some cars and trucks got destroyed. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 17:39 on Jul 6, 2023 |
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Jul 6, 2023 17:37
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bedpan posted:I wouldn't let the IAEA look at anything that is any way sensitive i would let them
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Jul 6, 2023 17:39
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https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7252407185898999086
emgeejay has issued a correction as of 17:44 on Jul 6, 2023 |
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Jul 6, 2023 17:41
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I doubt the whole Wagner thing was staged, because Putin seems genuinely pissed off about Prigozhin's temper tantrum and probably can't let it go. If Prigozhin is back in Russia it's probably to be submitted to some new humiliation.
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Jul 6, 2023 17:41
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KomradeX posted:I guess it was an op But what was the op? an attempt to expose traitors? Or my preferred explanation because it would be hilarious. The US tried bribe Prigozhin into staging a coup to throw Russia into disarray opening up their defensive line to the counter-attack. But Prigozhin had no intention of doing that and conspired with Putin to stage just enough of a coup to get paid by the US, at which point he called it off and split the cash with Putin.
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Jul 6, 2023 17:43
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I doubt the whole Wagner thing was staged, because Putin seems genuinely pissed off about Prigozhin's temper tantrum and probably can't let it go. If Prigozhin is back in Russia it's probably to be submitted to some new humiliation. Putin hates him so much he allowed Prigozhin’s forces to keep their heavy weapons.
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Jul 6, 2023 17:43
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Ardennes posted:Yeah, but the Western media very clearly can’t accept that. YouTubers and the NYT are still going nuts over it. All of the territory, at least in the southern front which was supposed to be the major focus of the offensive, that Ukraine has taken thus far is the security zone before Russia's first main line of defense that isn't supposed to last anyway. In other words its capture doesn't significantly degrade Russia's defenses
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Jul 6, 2023 17:45
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KRS-Oneishly: "It's going down TONIGHT"
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Jul 6, 2023 17:45
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Ah, Iraq. Sometimes I have fun 1990s end of history memories surface like that Madeleine Albright was cool with killing 500,000 iraqi children, bragged about it even, and that was via starvation and what not at like 500 a day for 3 years.
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Jul 6, 2023 17:45
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Ardennes posted:The photo of the “IL-22” being shot down was a 2 engine not 4 engine plane (the il-22 is a 4 engine plane) It may have been an aircraft of a different type, but I don't want to risk the thread rules by posting a bunch of pictures of a burning plane with crew on board. If the cost of an op to trick the media types is to shoot down several of your aircraft and lead to public VKS funerals, I guess that's real commitment to the op. Putin did expressly state that Wagner's mutiny killed Russian military personnel. Chatter on telegram was that the VKS in particular was pissed off by how irresponsible Wagner was in surface-to-air engagements during the mutiny. e: yeah, the tail number and fuselage of the downed plane matches an IL-22 known to be operated by the VKS, and the wing shape of the plane going down on flames is decidedly not the shape of an AN-26's wings or body, but shaped like an IL-22. And the Russian government has not denied any of the claims that an IL-22 was shot down. It's possible these are all elaborate photoshops and prop wreckage set up by Russia to trick people into thinking an IL-22 was shot down when they actually lost a different airplane, but occam's razor and all. mlmp08 has issued a correction as of 17:59 on Jul 6, 2023 |
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Jul 6, 2023 17:48
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Priggy has already given up most of his PMC force, except the hard core african veterans. So Priggozhin has been declawed. Him going o his mansion to pick up his favorite firearm gifts doesn't suggest Putin and Priggozhin were in on the con, or he is allowed to move back to Russia. Now if we hear more MOD high level management changes, then we can have more data to guess the original motive of Prigozhin's "labor dispute protest rebellion."
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Jul 6, 2023 17:48
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As always sanctions are about directly hurting the regime, they never do that. They are about inflicting immense suffering on the population in some misguided idea that a starving population being directly attacked by the US through sanctions will somehow muster the strength to rise up and overthrow their leaders for the benefit of the US.
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Jul 6, 2023 17:48
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Organ Fiend posted:They *could* if they want to, but it's not free. They're still spending huge amounts of money, resources and lives on this war, even if 'the west' is losing more. Though Russia would have to be beyond stupid to trust anythint The West or The Ukriane say at this, after how they bragged about how the Minsk agreements were them buying time for this war. Leaving Ukraine as anything but a Galacian rump just means you're giving them time to rearm and reorganize to shell Donbas again
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Jul 6, 2023 18:14
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Marenghi posted:But what was the op? an attempt to expose traitors? Hell if I know. Maybe some weird internal poo poo. Cause thats the only way any of this makes a lick of sense
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Jul 6, 2023 18:27
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stephenthinkpad posted:Priggy has already given up most of his PMC force, except the hard core african veterans. So Priggozhin has been declawed. Him going o his mansion to pick up his favorite firearm gifts doesn't suggest Putin and Priggozhin were in on the con, or he is allowed to move back to Russia. All of his other enterprises are defunct too. Seems like a lot of effort and sacrifice for a kayfabe.
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Jul 6, 2023 18:27
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You don’t leave an actual enemy of the state alive with an army and free reign to travel in your country. KomradeX posted:Though Russia would have to be beyond stupid to trust anythint The West or The Ukriane say at this, after how they bragged about how the Minsk agreements were them buying time for this war. Leaving Ukraine as anything but a Galacian rump just means you're giving them time to rearm and reorganize to shell Donbas again I really doubt a budget deficit is going to drive the Russians to the table, especially since in some ways it is an economic benefit to the country. The US has nothing to give the Russians.
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Jul 6, 2023 18:31
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maybe they're gonna go old school and make priggy tour the country while hecklers jeer and throw rotten produce at him?
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Jul 6, 2023 18:33
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Which actor do you think did it? Tom Cruise. He's got the training for it and I think he's got the right mix of patriotism, crazy, and slavish devotion to cults to be a secret agent
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Jul 6, 2023 18:36
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Buffer posted:Ah, Iraq. Sometimes I have fun 1990s end of history memories surface like that Madeleine Albright was cool with killing 500,000 iraqi children, bragged about it even, and that was via starvation and what not at like 500 a day for 3 years. Yeah, Russia's war of genocide against Ukraine has fewer casualties, both from military strikes and economic collateral, than America's savage wars of peace.
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Jul 6, 2023 18:39
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Ardennes posted:You don’t leave an actual enemy of the state alive with an army and free reign to travel in your country. I don't think its likely they'll take a deal when just more continual pressure will get them what they want anyway
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Jul 6, 2023 18:42
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KomradeX posted:I don't think its likely they'll take a deal when just more continual pressure will get them what they want anyway We don’t know how long this war will go for but if the Ukrainians are already in the shape they seem to be then I don’t know why they wouldn’t just continue just doing what they are doing. They have plenty of troops and they are building plenty more material and there isn’t any pressure from the public. Putting everything of Pirgozhin’s “rebels” to make another go?
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Jul 6, 2023 18:45
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spacetoaster posted:So all it takes to have "a history of trolling" and get banned is 10 posts over the course of a year in a megathread that are just slightly sarcastic arguments against a mod's position? He got banned by Russia.
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Jul 6, 2023 18:56
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KomradeX posted:Though Russia would have to be beyond stupid to trust anythint The West or The Ukriane say at this, after how they bragged about how the Minsk agreements were them buying time for this war. Leaving Ukraine as anything but a Galacian rump just means you're giving them time to rearm and reorganize to shell Donbas again This is true. However, I don't believe that Russia has any interest in occupying or annexing west Ukraine. There's nothing of value there, and it would just put Nazi partisans inside their borders and loving Poland on their border. Better to leave the Nazis in a Nazistan that also serves as a buffer between Russia and Poland. So there is a point where Russia has taken everything it could conceivably want, but Ukraine still, technically, exists entirely within Galicia. At this point I think we see a negotiated ceasefire where Russia has everything it wants, and the West doesn't have to concede defeat while simultaneously not needing to pump money and weapons into Ukraine. I.e. a frozen conflict, like the Korean war.
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Jul 6, 2023 18:56
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Russian tsarist twitter seems to have shifted towards complaining about gay pride & fake chicken, think this counter-offensive's a bust
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Jul 6, 2023 18:58
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There may be a point even Galicia doesn’t want to keep up with the war, maybe the Russians will go that far or maybe they won’t but I suspect the actual amount of hardcore supporters of the government is less than a lot of people think. The men who really care have been self selecting themselves, and if they aren’t willing to volunteer now, I don’t know if they are going to fight to death in the future.Neurolimal posted:Russian tsarist twitter seems to have shifted towards complaining about gay pride & fake chicken, think this counter-offensive's a bust It is kind of hilarious even Russian nationalists don’t seem to actually want Russia to win deep down since the “right type” of Russia isn’t winning.
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Jul 6, 2023 19:01
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give the eu to russia
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Jul 6, 2023 19:01
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Nix Panicus posted:Yeah, Russia's war of genocide against Ukraine has fewer casualties, both from military strikes and economic collateral, than America's savage wars of peace. according to the UN numbers I think it's less than an average foggy bottom thursday
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Jul 6, 2023 19:03
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The best thing for the EU is to forget about the US and NATO, and embrace being a dusty museum with bike lanes.
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Jul 6, 2023 19:03
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SplitSoul posted:The delivery of Danish, Dutch and German Leopard 1s has been delayed. The herding of cats going well
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Jul 6, 2023 19:06
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The Ukrainian dolchstoßlegende is starting to take its incredibly lame form. https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1676947008253497352 Lifelong servants of the American empire are now tankies doing imperialism by trying to negotiate an end to the war. Eternal curses to the NGO liberals who taught the Ukrainian government to talk like this.
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Jul 6, 2023 19:14
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americans cannot do treason to ukraine lol what a dumbass
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Jul 6, 2023 19:19
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no but wanting peace anywhere is a treasonous crime in the united states
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Jul 6, 2023 19:21
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Al! posted:no but wanting peace anywhere is a treasonous crime in the united states
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Jul 6, 2023 19:25
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