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Sounds like an awful lot more dev effort compared to just letting it be a mediocre 6-person raid, yeah? There are raids with fewer encounters and smaller geographical spaces, and plenty of other raids can be completed in sub-20 minutes. I don't know why anyone would want a massive rework with the reward being a smaller activity for fewer people!
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Jul 8, 2023 22:35
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"Make Crota's End a dungeon" is up there with "disable power ammo in Gambit" as one of those ideas that I think people just kinda say but sounds absolutely ridiculous to me. It's just a little bit short on traversal, I dunno why in a world where we tolerate stuff like Eater of Worlds and Root of Nightmares and stuff like Scourge of the Past and Crown of Sorrow are generally remembered pretty fondly, that Crota's End is still somehow the whipping boy of every raid.
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Jul 8, 2023 22:39
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MJeff posted:"Make Crota's End a dungeon" is up there with "disable power ammo in Gambit" as one of those ideas that I think people just kinda say but sounds absolutely ridiculous to me. Wisdom. To me it always brought back the D2Y1 chorus of 'they ought to bring back Bounties!' where people said it because they heard it but it wasn't actually any kind of a good idea.
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Jul 8, 2023 22:40
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Yeah and then in year 3, Bungie made bounties the main way of gaining power, so the best way to efficiently grind was to fill up on repeatable moon bounties. That was rough. The whole artifact grind thing still isn't perfect, but I'm very thankful Seasonal Challenges replaced that particular iteration of the system.
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Jul 8, 2023 22:43
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Do we tolerate Root of Nightmares? I remember it had a decently sized backlash for being unchallenging, which was lost against the backdrop of the much larger outrage at Lightfall as a whole
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Jul 8, 2023 22:48
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Root of Nightmares is good, it's just not hard. That is okay. Honestly All Raids Are Beautiful, some just still their beauty sleep and to get refreshed. Same with some dungeons. Last Wish rightfully shows that. Also on seasons, I also really wish we had three four-month seasons a year, but that is never going to happen. People lose their poo poo by week six of a season, screaming "NO CONTENT" could you fucken imagine another *month*? This is something I directly blame the consumers for tbh.
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Jul 8, 2023 22:57
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Here's my killshot on the idea of Crota as a Dungeon Imagine paying $10 for Crota vs getting it for free as a reprised raid
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Jul 8, 2023 23:06
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None of the craftable guns seem all that appealing to me this season, not that I've really touched crafting at all (checked out after beating the Witch Queen campaign). I notice Xur is selling a neato non-exotic trace rifle from season of the seraph and apparently it's craftable? If I buy 5 of this gun and use my 5 deepsite harmonizers, will that work to give me the pattern?
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Jul 8, 2023 23:22
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Snuffman posted:None of the craftable guns seem all that appealing to me this season, not that I've really touched crafting at all (checked out after beating the Witch Queen campaign). It sure will! And all the craftable trace rifles are fun and good, so it's a good thing. Hollow Denial for Void, Path of Least Resistance for Arc and Retraced Path (from Dares, actively available, go get it!) for Solar, plus the Raid Trace is Solar.
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Jul 8, 2023 23:25
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syntaxfunction posted:Also on seasons, I also really wish we had three four-month seasons a year, but that is never going to happen. People lose their poo poo by week six of a season, screaming "NO CONTENT" could you fucken imagine another *month*? This is something I directly blame the consumers for tbh. Implicit in the four-month season idea is that they’d also be 25% more substantial, but I agree that it wouldn’t work out like that
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Jul 8, 2023 23:25
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Snuffman posted:None of the craftable guns seem all that appealing to me this season, not that I've really touched crafting at all (checked out after beating the Witch Queen campaign). Yes and Path of Least Resistance is a good candidate to use your Harmonizers on.
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Jul 8, 2023 23:27
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haveblue posted:Implicit in the four-month season idea is that they’d also be 25% more substantial, but I agree that it wouldn’t work out like that For the record when I say this that’s not what I mean. I want three, four-month seasons with the exact same amount of content*. I want more breathing room before content and I want more time to complete seasonal goals. *I am forced to reconsider this, however, now that we seem to have cut seasonal stories down from eight weeks long to five.
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Jul 8, 2023 23:49
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https://twitter.com/Jordan_Mallory/status/1277483756245442566
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Jul 8, 2023 23:51
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I mean, Bungie is not above reworking encounters or completely changing them. Portals in VoG is nothing like it was in D1. Crota's End only had one real Raid encounter (bridges), but the other encounters wouldn't be all that hard to touch up beyond the AOT version to make them raid-y. Add some plates to thrallway, add a cyclic damage mechanic to Deathsingers, and add one more mechanic to AOT Crota (colored swords maybe? If Crota has a blue shield, get the blue sword) and you basically have a raid that's better than Root.
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Jul 8, 2023 23:53
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I think you fix Thrallway by just putting an absolutely loving ridiculous amount of enemies in. Make it the most enemy dense thing in the entire game. And sure, add some plates to it. Make it like a game of Reckoning inside a raid except you're not getting bounced off the cock-sucking bridge every 5 seconds.
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Jul 9, 2023 00:03
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Bungie has also literally said that if Crota were to come back to D2 winky blinky it would be reworked. There's a zero percent chance that they'd bring back the Dark Below version, lop 3 people off the max allowed fireteam, and call it a day It'll get a slightly more involved retooling than VoG got (no more skipping bridge! Requiring 3 people to do mechanics instead of 1!), people will forget that AoT Crota pretty much solved most of the problems already, and paul tassi will write an article that he's disgusted they bothered to Bring Crota Back (and not even as a dungeon!)
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Jul 9, 2023 00:06
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syntaxfunction posted:Honestly All Raids Are Beautiful, some just still their beauty sleep and to get refreshed. Same with some dungeons. Last Wish rightfully shows that. At the end of the day, I agree with this. I don't think there's a single bad Raid in the franchise's history, although obviously something like VoG existed in its time and needed mechanical refreshes to stay relevant. Eater of Worlds rides the line because it's just kind of not a raid for the first half of it, but it has a really fun final encounter. Root of Nightmares has too much walking and not enough stuff for everybody to do, but it has some fun challenges and triumphs, I had a lot of fun with my clan doing the second encounter trying to get the challenge and the encounter triumph at the same time.
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Jul 9, 2023 01:07
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RoN is pretty fun if you're a mechanics doer, and there's plenty of groups where people are happy to not be mechanics doers. But once in awhile you get groups where like 3 people want to run on encounter 1.
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Jul 9, 2023 01:20
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I kinda wish some version of Crossfire was baked into encounter 2, because then you'd have 2 runners, 2 launchers, 2 ad clear.
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Jul 9, 2023 01:21
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I really would like to know who in their right mind wants the loving Crota raid back. Just go play some loving Dares if you want to fight that idiot again.
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Jul 9, 2023 01:31
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Yeah, but a bunch of leaks are all pointing to it so I'm ready to be disappointed about not getting Wrath.
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Jul 9, 2023 01:34
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SmallpoxJenkins posted:I really would like to know who in their right mind wants the loving Crota raid back. No one, no one wants it back, I personally want wrath of the machine and I think most people if polled would be asking for wrath or just "a good raid" if they never played D1 Lightfall campaign was disappointing and while I like Root of Nightmares it's total lack of difficulty was also disappointing so it will be entirely unsurprising to me if the next raid is Crota to complete a trifecta of disappointment in the  expansion
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Jul 9, 2023 01:47
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I want every raid back, because as said, All Raids Are Beautiful. I'm not too fussed about the order. If I were, then yes, I would prefer Wrath back sooner rather than later.
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Jul 9, 2023 01:48
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OK let's be real here, spire of stars sucked balls
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Jul 9, 2023 02:06
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I played spire exactly once but I do remember a lot of balls involved
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Jul 9, 2023 02:10
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I liked Spire, because it was a hard raid that a lot of people bounced off of  But it was very buggy. Val Ca'our just didn't show up one time I ran it, it was very funny.
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Jul 9, 2023 02:15
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The doors being buggy was annoying but when it worked, Spire loving ruled. Val Ca'our is such a fun boss.
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Jul 9, 2023 02:21
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:OK let's be real here, spire of stars sucked balls I was retired from D2 whenever that came out, but I've heard nothing but disdain for it. How hosed up/bad was/is it?
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Jul 9, 2023 02:22
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SmallpoxJenkins posted:I was retired from D2 whenever that came out, but I've heard nothing but disdain for it. It had a long path to DPS with a lot of steps, ads were pressuring you basically the entire time, if you hosed up a single step more than once you wiped and the final stand was actually challenging and could actually wipe you if you weren't ready for it. It was very difficult, especially in a double primary meta and it ruled.
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Jul 9, 2023 02:38
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SmallpoxJenkins posted:I was retired from D2 whenever that came out, but I've heard nothing but disdain for it. The core mechanic of Spire of Stars is to Throw a Ball at a Thing, sometimes the Thing is another guardian, sometimes the Thing is a spaceship in a virtual space you get launched into (the aesthetic of Spire of Stars top-tier, gameplay aside). SoS was hard because the time limits for mechanics were tight, raid responsibilities were randomized so you could not reliably assign tasks to people, and the combat was very challenging for it's sandbox. SoS was bad because Throw Ball At Thing ultimately was the only thing that mattered for the final encounter and was subject to the tender mercies of D2's physics engine. I failed more nights in SoS than I cleared because sometimes the Ball would just not hit the thing you're throwing it at despite you, the player, holding the ball, essentially just have to point your crosshair at a ship and hit the mouse button. The game would send the ball off to loving Narnia and your group wipes.
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Jul 9, 2023 02:41
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Meiteron posted:No one, no one wants it back, I personally want wrath of the machine and I think most people if polled would be asking for wrath or just "a good raid" if they never played D1 If Wrath of the Machine was the one with the "shoot some TVs then run like hell for a corner room before being incinerated" bit, then yeah I want that one back. Also my GOAT season is Splicer, I will rock that title until the D2 servers go offline for good
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Jul 9, 2023 02:41
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Wrath had the TV shooting encounter, the giant war machine encounter, the evil torso encounter, and the spider rodeo encounter
haveblue fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jul 9, 2023 |
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Jul 9, 2023 02:48
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I want Wrath most of all. Wrath is still one of the best raids Bungie has ever made (Tied with Last Wish in my mind), and hands down had the coolest set pieces in any raid.
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Jul 9, 2023 02:51
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haveblue posted:Wrath had the TV shooting encounter, the giant war machine encounter, the evil torso encounter, and the spider rodeo encounter Oh yeah I'm starting to remember more of it, back in the dusty collection of my memories. It was the only D1 raid that I did so it's got a special place in my heart
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Jul 9, 2023 02:53
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SmallpoxJenkins posted:I was retired from D2 whenever that came out, but I've heard nothing but disdain for it. It was more mechanically complicated than Legit Riven, and extremely buggy. It was _very_ good when you had a team that knew what they were doing but they really did dial the mechanics up to 11 for the Val Ca'our fight. Personally, I think a lot of the disdain for it was a bit of a skill issue, as it was not a raid that people could just turn their brain off and shoot adds in. You had to play well not to die and not to gently caress up stuff. The bugs were also frustrating, but I think even if you fixed those bugs the skill issue with many players would remain.
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Jul 9, 2023 02:54
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Meiteron posted:The core mechanic of Spire of Stars is to Throw a Ball at a Thing, sometimes the Thing is another guardian, sometimes the Thing is a spaceship in a virtual space you get launched into (the aesthetic of Spire of Stars top-tier, gameplay aside). Lmao that owns. KF is my #1 favorite raid, followed by Wrath. Wrath was just us basically swatting some nerd in his basement.
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Jul 9, 2023 02:55
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I appreciate that val ca’our makes a cameo as a sidekick boss in salvage
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Jul 9, 2023 03:02
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It occurs to me that it's positively Illegal to talk about Spire in general and Val Ca'our specifically without highlighting the incredibly good boss theme he gets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US64BWvy0kY
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Jul 9, 2023 03:10
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Once I heard the leak that Wrath wasn't happening because Bungie couldn't make it work in D2's engine I saved myself on disappointment from there out. I still think bringing back Crota is a worse option than literally any of the DCV'd D2 raids but, what are you gonna do.
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Jul 9, 2023 03:19
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| # ? May 23, 2024 08:36 |
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SmallpoxJenkins posted:I really would like to know who in their right mind wants the loving Crota raid back. I do It was fun I also want more of D1 back in general, like my bone and sinew guns
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Jul 9, 2023 03:20
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