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Publishing-wise, I believe Streen is the first one to be referred to as a Jedi Master. Luke puts him in charge of things during the first Black Fleet Crisis book when he leaves.
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Jul 5, 2023 17:30
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OhFunny posted:I've never heard of that last one. It's great, basically a travelogue through Sith warlord hellscape galaxy
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Jul 5, 2023 18:01
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OhFunny posted:Publishing-wise, I believe Streen is the first one to be referred to as a Jedi Master. Luke puts him in charge of things during the first Black Fleet Crisis book when he leaves. i like that streen just looks like jedi willie nelson.
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Jul 5, 2023 19:13
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OhFunny posted:Publishing-wise, I believe Streen is the first one to be referred to as a Jedi Master. Luke puts him in charge of things during the first Black Fleet Crisis book when he leaves. For some reason, I always forget Streen. Probably because he was only really "Major" in the Kevin J Anderson book, but otherwise faded in to the background in favor of figures like Kyp Durron. Kam Salosar was a Knight, hiding out from the empire until the Dark Empire comics. I don't know how you'd catagorize it but Ood Banar was a walking talking tree during the Sith War era. After Exar Kun launched on the Jedi's main planet, he tried to steal a bunch of artifacts that Ood was in the process of Evacuating. One thing leads to another and Ood goes through a life stage or some such and turns into a proper tree, rooted over the artifacts (including ancient lightsabers) and forces Kun to retreat. He pops back up during the Dark Empire saga, still alive, still a jedi master. Although his contribution at that point was saying "hi" to luke, and then promptly dying. Luke inherets all the artefacts hidden under Ood.
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Jul 5, 2023 19:47
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Calax posted:I don't know how you'd catagorize it but Ood Banar was a walking talking tree during the Sith War era. After Exar Kun launched on the Jedi's main planet, he tried to steal a bunch of artifacts that Ood was in the process of Evacuating. One thing leads to another and Ood goes through a life stage or some such and turns into a proper tree, rooted over the artifacts (including ancient lightsabers) and forces Kun to retreat. He pops back up during the Dark Empire saga, still alive, still a jedi master. Although his contribution at that point was saying "hi" to luke, and then promptly dying. Luke inherets all the artefacts hidden under Ood. When I first saw Last Jedi, my head canon was that the tree library with the Jedi sacred texts was Ood Bnar. I also thought that the twelve apprentices Luke mentioned in the movie were the original twelve from Jedi Academy/I, Jedi. Actually I guess it's been established that Luke's Jedi Temple from the sequels was on Ossus, so I guess Ood Bnar might have been there. Imagining young Ben Solo putting a swing up on one of his branches.
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Jul 5, 2023 20:26
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Chairman Capone posted:When I first saw Last Jedi, my head canon was that the tree library with the Jedi sacred texts was Ood Bnar. I also thought that the twelve apprentices Luke mentioned in the movie were the original twelve from Jedi Academy/I, Jedi. code:
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Jul 5, 2023 22:51
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Rochallor posted:
What about fist fighting a giant otter? Or the space cop loving one?
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Jul 6, 2023 00:07
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Rise of Skywalker could have been saved by "I bid you dark greetings."
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Jul 6, 2023 01:09
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Dawgstar posted:Rise of Skywalker could have been saved by "I bid you dark greetings." I mean, dark greetings and the Mofference are from the same books that featured Luke training a kid who turned out to be Palpatine’s secret grandkid….
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Jul 6, 2023 01:24
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Calax posted:For some reason, I always forget Streen. Probably because he was only really "Major" in the Kevin J Anderson book, but otherwise faded in to the background in favor of figures like Kyp Durron. K'Kruhk is another Master who survived the Clone Wars, and ends up running the order in like 100 ABY.
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Jul 6, 2023 01:48
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On the John Jackson Miller front he also wrote the excellent prequel novel to Rebels called A New Dawn featuring Hera and Kanan which I highly recommend.
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Jul 6, 2023 02:57
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Chairman Capone posted:I mean, dark greetings and the Mofference are from the same books that featured Luke training a kid who turned out to be Palpatine’s secret grandkid…. The Jedi Prince books were written for children and approached the setting from a very childlike viewpoint. I mean, the Empire are obviously the Bad Guys. And they must know that they are the Bad Guys -- they call their ships Star Destroyers and their soldiers Stormtroopers and their giant planet-destroying weapons Death Stars. So obviously they'd bid each other dark greetings and brag about how evil they are, that's just common sense! ...I have to admit: after the grimdark serious-business badness of the post-NJO EU, my feelings towards the the silly and childish badness of the Jedi Prince books softened in comparison. Given a choice between Troy Denning describing the latest mutilation he's inflicted on Alema Rar in disturbingly gleeful detail and the Moffs calling a Mofference, I know which one I'd rather be reading about.
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Jul 6, 2023 04:38
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I hope they start doing unabridged audiobooks for the Essential Legends Collection again. It would be nice to be able to revisit the Wraith books during a drive or something. Also I, Jedi, Survivor’s Quest, and Outbound Flight at least.
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Jul 6, 2023 05:00
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Chronosynclast posted:The Jedi Prince books were written for children and approached the setting from a very childlike viewpoint. I mean, the Empire are obviously the Bad Guys. And they must know that they are the Bad Guys -- they call their ships Star Destroyers and their soldiers Stormtroopers and their giant planet-destroying weapons Death Stars. So obviously they'd bid each other dark greetings and brag about how evil they are, that's just common sense! I agree that the Jedi Prince books are fun kids' books, and honestly probably more fun to read for kids than YJK (although I guess those were aimed at a slightly older audience). It is funny that for as goofy as they were, since they came out so early in the EU they set up some of the worldbuilding that stuck around. Particularly a lot of stuff from Kessel, some Yavin geography, and the first Grand Admiral after Thrawn. As light and silly as they are it's especially funny that they were written by a brainworm-rotted raving conspiracy theorist, and that some key plot points of the series are based on his views of the JFK assassination (Jedgar = J. Edgar). But I think the funniest thing about the Jedi Prince books are that for years they and Dark Empire were the go-to evidence for the subset of fans who really vocally disliked the EU, and once the Disney purchase happened those people were so ecstatic that the terrible EU stories about Palpatine's grandkid and Palpatine's resurrection would be thrown out and the "real" much better stories would finally be told in movie form. Didn't seem to hear a lot from them after Rise of Skywalker came out, though....
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Jul 6, 2023 15:11
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Chairman Capone posted:But I think the funniest thing about the Jedi Prince books are that for years they and Dark Empire were the go-to evidence for the subset of fans who really vocally disliked the EU, and once the Disney purchase happened those people were so ecstatic that the terrible EU stories about Palpatine's grandkid and Palpatine's resurrection would be thrown out and the "real" much better stories would finally be told in movie form. Didn't seem to hear a lot from them after Rise of Skywalker came out, though.... There was always that minority of fan who hated the EU for reasons that, upon investigation, were pretty arbitrary but there was some amusement to be had when they swore up and down once the buyout happened that you would never see a single shred of the old EU in anything forever, never expecting that Filoni would grab from it with both hands among other people.
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Jul 6, 2023 16:27
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Chronosynclast posted:The Jedi Prince books were written for children and approached the setting from a very childlike viewpoint. I mean, the Empire are obviously the Bad Guys. And they must know that they are the Bad Guys -- they call their ships Star Destroyers and their soldiers Stormtroopers and their giant planet-destroying weapons Death Stars. So obviously they'd bid each other dark greetings and brag about how evil they are, that's just common sense! yeah, i honestly dont hate it. i dont think star wars ever did 40k level edgy well. 40k alot of times doesn't do edgy well and only recently started to do it pretty well. illl make a totured compariosn and say "which aged better of these two cartoons, foamy the squrrle or Homestarrunner" because one is edgy trash thats funny and edgy when your like 14 and the other is a classic because its weird and memorible.
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Jul 6, 2023 20:20
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Jedi Prince is goofy as poo poo, but the yeah, I’d rather have that than the poo poo Denning was cranking out for the last several years before the buyout. Kind of curious to see if Junior Jedi Knights holds up better or worse. YJK’s reading level is so dumbed down it was hard to get through the two books I’d missed as a kid.
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Jul 6, 2023 22:05
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I appreciate that Abel Peña took it as his own personal quest to rehabilitate/reference Jedi Prince as much as he could in his works. Like this is one of those things that a lot of people who don't like the EU poo poo on it for, but I personally love that every single goddamn thing, no matter how obscure, irrelevant, or goofy it was, could be part of the same canon. "Dark Greetings" and Traitor sat side by side in the same universe. Darth Bane and a crying mountain were equally canon. The most comprehensive story of the theft of the Death Star plans came from an obscure British choose your own adventure book (also referenced by Peña!).Chairman Capone posted:As light and silly as they are it's especially funny that they were written by a brainworm-rotted raving conspiracy theorist, and that some key plot points of the series are based on his views of the JFK assassination (Jedgar = J. Edgar). Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jul 6, 2023 |
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Jul 6, 2023 23:16
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Chairman Capone posted:
Ok but how does the Leia Droid with laser eyes fit into that 
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Jul 6, 2023 23:57
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Angry_Ed posted:Ok but how does the Leia Droid with laser eyes fit into that This just reminds me that they made droids like Terminators. Guri from Shadows of the Empire.
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Jul 7, 2023 00:27
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Lord Hydronium posted:The most comprehensive story of the theft of the Death Star plans came from an obscure British choose your own adventure book (also referenced by Peña!). Which reminds me that Peña also canonized the Star Wars VHS Game, and made two of its player characters Lumiya and Kyle Katarn.
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Jul 7, 2023 11:09
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Robot Style posted:Which reminds me that Peña also canonized the Star Wars VHS Game, and made two of its player characters Lumiya and Kyle Katarn. Vaguely related, a random NPC in the WEG book 'Cracken's Rebel Operatives' turned out to be Jan Ors. Given her stats, she could have gotten the Death Star plans herself. Did Kyle and Jan ever get together?
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Jul 7, 2023 14:58
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Lord Hydronium posted:Wait, what? I need to know more about this. Paul Davids, who cowrote the series with his wife, is big into conspiracy theories and alternate science stuff, particularly Roswell and pushed a particular interpretation of the Roswell conspiracy in the early 90s ahead of the fiftieth anniversary (without getting too in the weeds, from the early 80s on there were several different narratives around the crash). He cowrote, produced, and had a cameo in the 1994 Roswell TV movie with Kyle McLachlan, the props of which are now featured at the official Roswell UFO Museum showing what "really" happened there. (Of particular interest: the alien puppets/props from that movie were later reused as the Asgardians in Stargate SG-1.) I forget the details but years ago Davids gave some interview where he talked about his conspiracy views on the JFK assassination which is basically that the FBI killed him and then ran things from behind the scenes with LBJ as a puppet, which is easy to read into the Jedi Prince series with the false Trioculus and the Church of the Dark Side as the FBI. Beyond that, Davids has also written books about communicating with dead sci-fi authors from the afterlife which is what converted him from atheism, and how Jesus went to India as a teen and was inspired by Buddhism.
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Jul 7, 2023 15:33
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Dawgstar posted:Vaguely related, a random NPC in the WEG book 'Cracken's Rebel Operatives' turned out to be Jan Ors. Given her stats, she could have gotten the Death Star plans herself. Given how many components and versions og the plans existed in the Legends Canon sometimes it feels like half the Galaxy was in on the heist.
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Jul 7, 2023 15:52
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Dawgstar posted:Vaguely related, a random NPC in the WEG book 'Cracken's Rebel Operatives' turned out to be Jan Ors. Given her stats, she could have gotten the Death Star plans herself. They were romantically involved, and he asked her to marry him during the Vong war, but she refused
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Jul 7, 2023 15:52
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Angry_Ed posted:Given how many components and versions og the plans existed in the Legends Canon sometimes it feels like half the Galaxy was in on the heist. There's a great Pablo Hidalgo quote on the Wook: "if you had to throw a dinner party and invite everyone who had ever stolen the Death Star plans, you'd be surprised at how many place settings you'd have to worry about." Most of them came from video games iirc, apparently "Rebel ships, striking from a secret base, have scored their first major victory" is such a good plot hook that dozens of game writers pounced on it without really checking to see what had been done before
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Jul 7, 2023 15:58
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Vinylshadow posted:They were romantically involved, and he asked her to marry him during the Vong war, but she refused Huh. Fair enough, I guess.
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Jul 7, 2023 16:04
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Chairman Capone posted:Paul Davids stuff ninjahedgehog posted:There's a great Pablo Hidalgo quote on the Wook: "if you had to throw a dinner party and invite everyone who had ever stolen the Death Star plans, you'd be surprised at how many place settings you'd have to worry about."  Say what you will about the rest of the Legends reset/Disney era, I think replacing the continuity mess and running joke that was stealing the Death Star plans in Legends with a movie as good as Rogue One kind of justifies the whole thing by itself.
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Jul 7, 2023 16:16
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Lord Hydronium posted:And that's why it annoys me when people treat the Dark Forces/Kyle Katarn version as definitive when it's the one that fits the least with the opening crawl! That was probably the first one, no? At least it was the first widespread one, I bet there was a WEG supplement that had it as well E: it is kinda funny how unimportant it is in Dark Forces though, iirc it's only the first level and the rest of it is the Dark Trooper stuff
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Jul 7, 2023 16:18
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ninjahedgehog posted:That was probably the first one, no? At least it was the first widespread one, I bet there was a WEG supplement that had it as well Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jul 7, 2023 |
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Jul 7, 2023 16:27
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Lord Hydronium posted:The Battle of Toprawa version was the first one, it goes all the way back to Brian Daley's radio drama in 1981. Dark Forces was probably the first one most people were exposed to, though; other than the aforementioned choose your own adventure book (Jedi Dawn), the Toprawa version largely lurked as a background detail for a while, popping up in WEG a few times. It shows up in some of the late Bantam books more as a part of Tyria's backstory in Wraith Squadron and the battle actually being shown in the Han Solo Trilogy (Bria Tharen is part of it). Yeah, it's never touched on a whole lot in WEG because a lot of those books were written before Dark Forces so there weren't, for lack of a better term, conflicting accounts.
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Jul 7, 2023 16:34
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I think the first game reference is actually X-Wing in 1993, where there's some stuff involving protecting the Tantive IV on its way to Toprawa. Dark Forces makes an oblique reference to this, as the opening mission is apparently the second phase of Operation Skyhook.
Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jul 7, 2023 |
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Jul 7, 2023 16:41
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Casimir Radon posted:Jedi Prince is goofy as poo poo, but the yeah, I’d rather have that than the poo poo Denning was cranking out for the last several years before the buyout. I remember reading the YJK books in like 8th grade and going "hmm these aren't terrible but they're clearly written for younger kids, maybe I'll try KJA's other books" and immediately going "oh no he just sucks" Lord Hydronium posted:
Yeah I hate 90% of the post ROTJ stuff in new canon, but genuinely prefer most of the interwar period stuff. There's a few things I miss but they're still there in spirit- like nostalgically I want to see Garm Bel Iblis but Saw Guerrera is arguably a better take on the same idea.
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Jul 7, 2023 18:19
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StashAugustine posted:I remember reading the YJK books in like 8th grade and going "hmm these aren't terrible but they're clearly written for younger kids, maybe I'll try KJA's other books" and immediately going "oh no he just sucks"
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Jul 7, 2023 18:25
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I think the issue with the YJK books is that the regular Star Wars books aren't exactly written at a particularly high reading level. I was reading them alongside stuff like the Thrawn trilogy and the Corellia trilogy and the only real difference was that they were about half as long. So if you are a kid who's able to read about Tenel Ka getting her arm chopped off, you can probably make it through Leia visiting the Noghri homeworld.
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Jul 7, 2023 18:57
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Rochallor posted:I think the issue with the YJK books is that the regular Star Wars books aren't exactly written at a particularly high reading level. I was reading them alongside stuff like the Thrawn trilogy and the Corellia trilogy and the only real difference was that they were about half as long. So if you are a kid who's able to read about Tenel Ka getting her arm chopped off, you can probably make it through Leia visiting the Noghri homeworld. Something I’ve brought up before was a paraphrased quote from Return to Ord Mantell. quote:”Haha, good thing you are young Jedi Knights!” Said Han Solo. Stuff like that gets grating for an adult. Edit: Speaking of Jedi Dawn I sure wish I’d grabbed a copy the first time I saw it on eBay or Amazon. It, the other book in the series, and the book that combines both of them are all north of $50 now. Which is more than I’m really willing to spend for a paperback. Casimir Radon fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Jul 8, 2023 |
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Jul 7, 2023 22:18
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The first story I read about the theft of the Death Star plans was in the Han Solo Trilogy. It's the one that I associate with that event over the other stories. Funny enough. It happens to be the one closest to the events of Rogue One. Since they both have prominent female characters lead a large rebel strike force on what is a suicide mission against an Imperial base to steal the plans and beam them up to the waiting Tantive IV before dying to the Imperial counterattack. OhFunny fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jul 8, 2023 |
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Jul 8, 2023 18:46
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Forbidden Planet has On The Front Lines, a big honkin' hardback artbook with some fluff text, on sale for £4.99. Well worth picking up if you like concept art and bullshit explaining how spaceships work.
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Jul 8, 2023 18:54
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whatever you think of rogue one it was genuinely pretty impressive how it mixed the more coherent death star plan theft stories from the EU together with a wink and a nod at each but not exactly like any of them
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Jul 8, 2023 20:02
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Speaking of Dark Forces, it's interesting too see how many "Kyle Katarn, but not quite" guys have shown up in the new canon, without Kyle himself existing. You've got a Stormtrooper who ends up joining the good guys and eventually tapping into the Force.  You've got a Bryar wielding mercenary who ends up getting tangled up with the Rebellion and stealing the Death Star plans.  You've got a blaster & lightsaber wielding videogame protagonist who's second game takes him to a city planet, a frontier colony, and a desert world dotted with ancient ruins as he searches for a lost planet from Jedi history.  And you've got a Jedi with a penchant for shoulder pads and a hotshot pilot girlfriend voiced by Vanessa Marshall, who ends up helping to train the next generation of Jedi.  As much as it would be cool to see him brought into canon himself, there's not really anything that would make him unique so I don't really see it happening in any meaningful way. Or maybe Kyle Katarn is just a mythical figure within the universe as well - one that arose from drunken cantina patrons misremembering the names of Cassian, Cal, and Kanan, and attributing the secondhand tales of their adventures to one guy.
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Jul 9, 2023 08:26
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