|
Ah, the famed Soviet cybernetics program.
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 14:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 11:07 |
|
|
Also since I moved jobs into working on industry I feel like I am turning into the german simulator meme guy when I play this update looking at poo poo like "replacement intervals for plant machinery" and "vehicle maintenence program"
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 14:16
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:It's funny that the beta patch has added vehicle maintenence requirements to my digging crews, which are modeled as a combined bulldozer/excavator.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 14:17
|
|
|
Quick question does agriculture care about pollution in the latest build? Thinking of making a clothing industry in the middle of fields supplying crops
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 14:24
|
|
|
Mandoric posted:Ah, the famed Soviet cybernetics program. You're thinking of Frostpunk.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 14:24
|
|
|
double nine posted:Quick question does agriculture care about pollution in the latest build? They added some massive silos that can store like 11k crops and have an integrated rail line so you can just slap one of those on your farm and transport them that way. I did it last save using the modded ones and it works well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 14:27
|
|
|
sure, but I'm going to start on a map where the start area is quite limited, I'm pretty much going to start on a 1-grid island for my first revenue generator. e: I could start in a different place with coal production but that's more pricy in construction costs than clothing, I think.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2023 14:51
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:It's funny that the beta patch has added vehicle maintenence requirements to my digging crews, which are modeled as a combined bulldozer/excavator. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2023 06:47
|
|
|
Oh man being able to buy a 30 ton flatbed in 1962 is a hell of an enticement to get the yanks onside.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2023 19:39
|
|
|
God drat but do tourists generate a lot of garbage. I think you need a dedicated technical services full of skip loaders to shovel the absolute tonnes of waste that a few hundred tourists manage to produce.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 10:45
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:God drat but do tourists generate a lot of garbage. I think you need a dedicated technical services full of skip loaders to shovel the absolute tonnes of waste that a few hundred tourists manage to produce. Tourism... Balanced?!
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 15:47
|
|
|
I feel like garbage in general seems a bit heavy in the beta, I hope they tune it down just a bit. If I have to destruct anything it can bring my single incinerator to a halt, even if I tell my trucks to take construction waste (which I don’t think is burn able?) to the border directly. I have a whole bunch of trucks serving a relatively small town and they’re going full tilt.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 16:07
|
|
|
Yeah you need a pretty colossal amount of infrastructure just to handle garbage, which might be OK but it's like, a lot of technical services you have to spam just to get the vehicle capacity.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 16:15
|
|
|
Is there a modded 32 truck TS yet ? I guess role play (realism ) wise it makes sense every building would have its own garage
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 16:20
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Is there a modded 32 truck TS yet ? I think there's a 17 vehicle one in Robs074's buildings.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 16:25
|
|
|
So I set my schools to only allow teachers who are on the high end of the loyalty gradient. And then I had a drop in loyalty. So nobody could go to school. So my unemployment rate reached 40% before I noticed. So I am now building as many schools as possible to try and teach people how to read before the republic collapses.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 21:22
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:So I set my schools to only allow teachers who are on the high end of the loyalty gradient. I still don’t fully understand the loyalty system regarding education. Why do I want my teachers at higher loyalty? Does it slowly increase the students loyalty in a sustainable way?
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 21:25
|
|
|
Anime Store Adventure posted:I still don’t fully understand the loyalty system regarding education. Why do I want my teachers at higher loyalty? Does it slowly increase the students loyalty in a sustainable way? I believe any didactic role, so radio/tv presenters, teachers, orphanages, prisons etc. Is subject to modifiers based on loyalty. Loyal radio presenters will inherently add loyalty boosts to the broadcast, independent of broadcast time devoted to actual propaganda. I believe the same is true for other roles. You can see it clearly on broadcasts because it shows a much higher loyalty gain if your presenters are loyal, but I assume it follows to other roles too. This also encourages you to create essentially a political vanguard in the republic, your key personnel in media and education want to be as loyal as possible, so give them all sports cars. It's a quite clever incentive to recreate that particular element of soviet society.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 21:29
|
|
|
I guess maybe I wasn’t paying close enough attention to schooling. I did notice the broadcasting effects, but I guess the schooling wasn’t pronounced enough to immediately notice - so I ignored it, and then proceeded to obviously never notice an effect.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 21:31
|
|
|
I have no evidence for it though it may be on the wiki. I just assume that's why it matters because that's the common throughline between all the roles that have loyalty filters, they are all roles which give people instructive authority over others.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 21:37
|
|
|
eagerly awaiting the introduction of print and newspapers
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 21:53
|
|
|
Yeah, but I usually don't bother. You can get loyalty high enough with monuments that going 50% propaganda in the radio/TV hits ahrd enough to get the overall loyalty into the 70ies. Secret police is a waste of resources in my opinion unless you run hard demands.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2023 21:57
|
|
|
The flip side of the coin is that loyalty also helps to prevent emigration. If you ignore loyalty altogether, you have the least loyal teachers for your students, which acts as a drag overall, and contributes to a failure spiral as your emigration rate is higher than your birth rate. It's frustratingly vague, though, so it's unclear how much this actually hurts or not. I will say that once loyalty reaches a certain point, you get a feedback loop that reinforces it once you set your highest loyalty people to be teachers, professors, and broadcasters. I honestly never found myself able to monument my way out of the hole without using mod monuments with far higher loyalty levels than the base game, although I also pretty exclusively play only on the hardest mode so I can't just import loyal teachers, rinse, repeat.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 02:14
|
|
|
Monument loyalty to me always seemed to sort of just push people high enough to not gently caress off assuming everything else was basically perfect. If I actually wanted to improve past a 40% sort of baseline loyalty it seemed like I needed broadcasting. I’ll try the education loop though and see if that sneaks it higher. My current republic is without broadcasting so I can test what I can effectively push.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 05:34
|
|
|
Anime Store Adventure posted:Monument loyalty to me always seemed to sort of just push people high enough to not gently caress off assuming everything else was basically perfect. If I actually wanted to improve past a 40% sort of baseline loyalty it seemed like I needed broadcasting. I don't think you can reasonably get it higher through just education. I think that it's something like: - education establishes a target loyalty based on teacher loyalty averaged out, with some randomness - broadcasting increases the baseline value - unmet needs reduces the baseline value - loyal is always slightly negatively affected by time - monuments provide a small but helpful bonus to the final value after all calculations, but basically do not move the needle - base loyalty is more of a curve than a straight line So, raising the average teacher loyalty raises the average student loyalty, but never above the teacher themselves. Broadcasting boosts that baseline over time, which is the only way to actually raise it after schooling ends. Without broadcasting, your average loyalty always falls over time until you get to minimum level of around 30-35% as the high end, which is where you can stay with just moments and decent basic services. At least, that's how it seemed to work for me. Once I am able to really push with broadcasting, loyalty slowly but steadily raises over time, and with a lot of constantly watching and fiddling with the min loyalty for teachers, and firing doctors for not spending their patriotic skills elsewhere to rebalance their civic duties, and creating Nice Houses For Good Citizens who can be moved if they become Less Good Citizens and can be set to only use the schools for employment, it's possibly to tweak this upwards slowly. It's just a huge pain in the neck to do manually, especially when imported college educated workers generally come with a decent loyalty score. You can, if you have the time and money, fire your teachers and import new teaching staff, but without broadcasting they'll start to get bitter as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 06:04
|
|
|
I think monuments basically can't raise it above 45%.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 09:09
|
|
|
I've never been able to keep loyalty above 40% with just monuments. usually it hovers around and 35% until my radio station gets built
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 09:28
|
|
|
I think you want a fair density of them and also keep everyone really happy and in top quality housing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 10:59
|
|
|
Playing on the test version: They got rid of the tabs in the vehicle windows!!! I do not like this. edit man research on totally changed the early game. I like this. You have no idea where resources are. How do you make money?? I cant just beeline an oilrefinery euphronius fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jul 11, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 14:38
|
|
|
You can still see resources when you're planting a mine/well, so you can still find it that way (I started with agriculture and randomly found coal this way). I still wish there would be small universities with limit to what they can research. Right now when you get technical university, you basically unlocked everything, because research is way faster then building the thing you researched, so it doesn't really come into play except for before you have the university
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 14:50
|
|
|
Yeah I think they need some sort of "knowledge maintenence" thing so to be able to do stuff you need staff devoted to keeping that skill base available in your republic. Cos yeah as it stands you just build the thing and then unlock everything. You could make it a function both of academic research and also, like, actually having the industry operational and thus having the institutional knowledge. So you have to use a university to do the theory to build the first industry but then once you have it operational you can free up some of that university staffing for another field. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jul 11, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 16:52
|
|
|
You should be able to buy research directly from the eastern bloc or whatever
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 21:10
|
|
|
euphronius posted:You should be able to buy research directly from the eastern bloc or whatever I pray for the day that I can pay some money to send students across the border to study in Latveria or something instead of slowly running out of university educated workers while building the GLORIOUS PEOPLE'S TECHNICAL UNIVERSITY OF GOOBERSTADT, POPULATION 734 (University capacity 4000 students)
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 21:15
|
|
|
I mean it doesn't make much sense as a mechanic full stop but from a gameplay perspective I think it's intended to add a sense of progression, but yeah you could also have an option for paying an upkeep to a foreign power to give you the ability to build and run the infrastructure. I think the concept of institutional knowledge makes more sense, and I like Songs of Syx's mechanic where you have to maintain knowledge, so you have to expand your academic staffing, resource production, and facilties to be able to do other stuff. Adds a good constant drain in a game that has few of them otherwise too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 21:15
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I mean it doesn't make much sense as a mechanic full stop but from a gameplay perspective I think it's intended to add a sense of progression, but yeah you could also have an option for paying an upkeep to a foreign power to give you the ability to build and run the infrastructure. Agreed, it's actually one of the nicer aspects of how SoS works. It's an elegant resource sink, and hitting the "knowledge" slider is useful for provinces that only export things you're already full to the brim of, giving you a reason to care about conquering them beyond map painting and taxes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 21:26
|
|
|
Yeah constant drains are important cos it gives you a reason to expand, and the big issue with W&R is that it's very easy to become profit making and then it's trivial. Building maintenence is a good step so hopefully they add more.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 21:28
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Yeah constant drains are important cos it gives you a reason to expand, and the big issue with W&R is that it's very easy to become profit making and then it's trivial. Building maintenence is a good step so hopefully they add more. I've always taken the "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy" approach towards crafting my glorious socialist paradise, where I want emigration to be as close to zero as possible, lifespan high, birth rate decent, and loyalty earned. This means continuously building new housing, which means continuously building new infrastructure, creating new jobs, planning ahead for additional expected growth, creation of logistics hubs to deal with the size I'm becoming, and so on. It's easy to just say "well I've got a bunch of oil money now and I can support the needs of everyone as a Petro state, guess we're good," but it's a true challenge to create a glorious future for everyone. And if you're not making that glorious future in cosmonaut mode, your republic is shameful and you are shameful. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 21:35
|
|
|
Mostly the issue I find is that a lot of the industries can produce gigantic quantities of stuff and you struggle to find anything to do with it. I would like it if having a giant steel mill was more useful. Also let me build big stupid poo poo, I should be able to build the palace of the soviets if I really want to.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 21:37
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Mostly the issue I find is that a lot of the industries can produce gigantic quantities of stuff and you struggle to find anything to do with it. I would like it if having a giant steel mill was more useful. If you can't find something to do with the steel, you're not industrializing and growing hard enough. Honestly, I've felt this way at times, and the answer was always "time to build bulk cargo freighters to sell all this extra gravel" or "all citizens are entitled to one (1) free automobile (some restrictions apply, see commissar for details)." I've always eventually reached the point where "lol there's no way I could use all of this" became shockingly untrue, usually when I least expected it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 21:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 11:07 |
|
|
I mean sure you can always export it but there's no need to, it doesn't achieve anything to do that other than making the number go up into even more meaningless levels given that I'm not spending any of it. I think the game should have more things that actually reward or require industrial development.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2023 22:55
|
|