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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:For point one, I think you’re downplaying the brutal fight that it took to get gay rights. Don’t start your timeline in 2000, start it before Stonewall. The right is using the exact same playbook now that they used then. It stopped working against gay people because over decades more and more were brave enough to come out, and the more openly gay people someone knows the less opposed they tend to be to gay rights. Well, i'm not that old to remember stonewall, i just remember the my time as a student who fought for gay rights the amount of acrimony surrounding gay marriage, until it was finally passed. It was far far less than the trans rights movement because even lots of normies thought it was dumb that gay marriage wasn't allowed. The trans rights movement is quite a bit different than the gay rights movement because there's friction even within feminists and the gay community over certain aspects of the trans rights movement that people on the left are uncomfortable talking about (but it's there). What i'm implying about point number 3 is that social media is a bigger part of our lives than the mid to late aughts and that's going to have an effect at amplifying negative discourse.
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Jul 11, 2023 20:23
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Mister Fister posted:
This is an extremely lovely thing to say about people who are having their rights and humanity stripped from them. They shouldn't have to to a good job at "making their case".
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Jul 11, 2023 20:34
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Mister Fister posted:Well, i'm not that old to remember stonewall, i just remember the my time as a student who fought for gay rights the amount of acrimony surrounding gay marriage, until it was finally passed. It was far far less than the trans rights movement because even lots of normies thought it was dumb that gay marriage wasn't allowed. The trans rights movement is quite a bit different than the gay rights movement because there's friction even within feminists and the gay community over certain aspects of the trans rights movement that people on the left are uncomfortable talking about (but it's there). When were you a student?
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Jul 11, 2023 20:38
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Mister Fister posted:Well, i'm not that old to remember stonewall, i just remember the my time as a student who fought for gay rights the amount of acrimony surrounding gay marriage, until it was finally passed. It was far far less than the trans rights movement because even lots of normies thought it was dumb that gay marriage wasn't allowed. The trans rights movement is quite a bit different than the gay rights movement because there's friction even within feminists and the gay community over certain aspects of the trans rights movement that people on the left are uncomfortable talking about (but it's there). If you’re not familiar it may help you understand how these struggles go to read up on the history of the fight for gay rights. Stonewall isn’t the worst place to start. The gay rights struggle you’re familiar with was a very mature (as in, had been going on a long time, had clear, experienced leaders) movement that was mainly pointed at a single goal. By the time we were looking at gay marriage, it was not politically possible to go out and say you wanted to arrest gay people for being gay. That was not always the case, and when it was there was a good deal more what you’re calling acrimony. But I think what you’re really seeing is desperation. Trans people are fighting for their lives. Large swaths of the country want to take away the medicine and treatments they need to live. Of course the fight is uglier. Losing is uglier than losing the gay marriage fight would’ve been.
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Jul 11, 2023 20:38
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Overseas bud light is extremely popular among a very very different demographic. Out of curiosity, which demographic & which "overseas"? DynamicSloth posted:As far as newsworthyness I think it would matter that Desantis, Haley, Scott are all headed for a clown car primary with Trump even if it fizzles out after Iowa and New Hampshire, there will still be barnstorming, debates and live election night coverage. The DNC is not going to let RFK Jr. have a real primary with Biden any more than Bill Weld got a real primary with Trump in 2020. Trump has said he won't debate his primary opponents & Biden's team has said the same. The GOP can try all it wants, and the DoJ can keep bringing charges against Trump & cause his margin to widen even further, but Trump's as likely to be the GOP nominee as Biden is the Dem nominee. In fact, Trump could waltz into the convention with a higher percentage of delegates than Biden on the Dem side, even if the DNC doesn't "honor" them, because several states have winner-take-all results from GOP primaries: quote:Republicans could try to stop Trump from seizing their presidential nomination with one simple reform – increasing proportional representation in the primary process. But to date, they have done the opposite. In fact, the number of GOP primary states that are winner take all increased from seven to 17 between the 2016 and 2020 election, according to an analysis by Gregory Korte at Bloomberg. https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/24/opinions/trump-2024-republican-primaries-gop-win-avlon/index.html
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Jul 11, 2023 20:39
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The biggest factor driving the sustained success of the bud light boycott (on the right) is there is no difference, in taste or effort to obtain, between bud lite, coors lite, Miller lite etc. it’s as easy as moving their arm a foot in a direction when they go to pick up beer. Trans rights has nothing to do with it beyond it beyond one of many potential regressive triggers. The same thing would have happened if AB had sent a swag bag to hunter biden and advertised going “Hunter Mode.”
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Jul 11, 2023 20:45
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Hunter Mode likely would have consisted of another substance than beer. Wasn't the SS investigation of the dime bag found in the West Wing supposed to be wrapped up yesterday? Have there been any announcements?
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Jul 11, 2023 20:49
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FizFashizzle posted:The biggest factor driving the sustained success of the bud light boycott (on the right) is there is no difference, in taste or effort to obtain, between bud lite, coors lite, Miller lite etc. it’s as easy as moving their arm a foot in a direction when they go to pick up beer. Yeah, it's a boycott that requires literally zero actual sacrifice. There are tons of other beers that do just as good a job of being cheap and readily accessible and beer.
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Jul 11, 2023 20:52
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Mister Fister posted:The trans rights movement is quite a bit different than the gay rights movement because there's friction even within feminists and the gay community over certain aspects of the trans rights movement that people on the left are uncomfortable talking about (but it's there). There are/were homophobic feminists and LGBT people that oppose gay marriage, it's not really that unique to trans people. In the 80s, the discourse about the people that need to be kept out of women's restrooms and sports was more focused at lesbians rather than trans women, with basically the same rhetoric about how lesbians weren't *really* women, and there were/are cishet feminists that absolutely join in on that. As for the language, the state of trans rights in the US is that there are states that are actively seeking to re-criminalize being transgender, so the vitriol is matching the urgency of the issue. Kinda like how when sodomy laws were more of a thing in the US or when the AIDS crisis was ongoing, the language and attitudes of the LGBT community as a whole was quite harsher. I'd strongly recommend familiarizing yourself more with LGBT history
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Jul 11, 2023 20:52
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Trans people have been in the fight for LGBT rights since the beginning of the fight (even if the language they used for themselves may have been different at the time). It's kind of lovely to talk about how gay people did their fight for civil rights better when trans people were right there beside them in the fight! It also elides how those fights were actually considered at the time.
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Jul 11, 2023 20:56
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"Tommy Tuberville relents and says white nationalists are racist" He's still holding up marine corps appointments over abortion tho
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Jul 11, 2023 20:57
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There's nothing terribly new about the trans fight. The right did the same thing for black people, Muslims, gays, and eastern european immigrants over the last hundred years. Same playbook, different target. It just shows how weak their culture war is that they're targeting such a small segment of the population now in order to eke out some win.
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Jul 11, 2023 20:58
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FizFashizzle posted:The biggest factor driving the sustained success of the bud light boycott (on the right) is there is no difference, in taste or effort to obtain, between bud lite, coors lite, Miller lite etc. it’s as easy as moving their arm a foot in a direction when they go to pick up beer. Isn't that the same case with shopping at Dick's Sporting Goods, Charmin, or the LA Dodgers? It seems like it would be extremely easy to not shop at Dick's, grab a different toilet paper roll, or not buy tickets to a baseball game. But, those boycotts all sort of fizzled out without any impact. I can see why Target, Wal-Mart, or Amazon would be too ubiquitous and large to make any difference and fail, but those seem like easier ones that didn't blow up to nearly the level of the Bud Light situation.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:00
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Isn't that the same case with shopping at Dick's Sporting Goods, Charmin, or the LA Dodgers? It seems like it would be extremely easy to not shop at Dick's, grab a different toilet paper roll, or not buy tickets to a baseball game. But, those boycotts all sort of fizzled out without any impact. To shop at a different store you have to go to a different store and find the stuff you want. Bud is literally on a shelf next to Coors. It's literally no effort.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:01
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Blue Footed Booby posted:To shop at a different store you have to go to a different store and find the stuff you want. Bud is literally on a shelf next to Coors. It's literally no effort. Wouldn't that be the case for Charmin toilet paper? Or that not purchasing baseball tickets and traveling to attend a baseball game is significantly less effort and cheaper than doing it?
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Jul 11, 2023 21:04
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Wouldn't that be the case for Charmin toilet paper? Or that not purchasing baseball tickets and traveling to attend a baseball game is significantly less effort and cheaper than doing it? If you want to go to a baseball game, there isn't an identical, same-cost alternative you can buy at the same place. And people are particular about their toilet paper.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:07
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Wouldn't that be the case for Charmin toilet paper? Or that not purchasing baseball tickets and traveling to attend a baseball game is significantly less effort and cheaper than doing it? For a baseball fan the equivalent to just not going to games/watching would be if someone stopped drinking altogether in response to the bud light thing. Sports allegiances don’t tend to be that fluid and people are often cheering for the closest geographical team so a Dodgers fan probably isn’t going to mentally have an easy time just becoming a Padres fan. I would also say toilet paper is a lot more brand personal than beer but that may just be me.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:08
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Wait, there was a consumer boycott against Charmin? 
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Jul 11, 2023 21:10
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Willa Rogers posted:Trump has said he won't debate his primary opponents & Biden's team has said the same. quote:In fact, Trump could waltz into the convention with a higher percentage of delegates than Biden on the Dem side, even if the DNC doesn't "honor" them, because several states have winner-take-all results from GOP primaries: At the end of the day none of it matters to Biden, he's the incumbent, Trump's not, the rules are not the same and never have been.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:14
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Beer also retains its branding from purchase to consumption, unlike toilet paper. I.e, if you bring bud light to a party you are publicly bringing a billboard that says bud light filled with smaller billboards that say bud light that you personally will be holding close to your face as you consume them. In comparison toilet paper is essentially anonymized after purchase and goes in a closet or something. I'm actually not sure of something that you end up being more tied to the branding of than beer, especially with the sort of 'bringing a six pack to a party' type ritual that exists. Most other food at least you take the wrapper off when you eat it.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:16
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I just presume turnout will be very low for many D primaries because there's no competition there unless there's any spicy lower races meanwhile R primaries will probably be very high due to Trump energy. Also an R primary debate with no Trump would likely pull impressively low viewership. Who's that even for aside from like a dozen opinion columnists?
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Jul 11, 2023 21:21
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Willa Rogers posted:Out of curiosity, which demographic & which "overseas"? UK and Europe is the big one I’m thinking of. Bud light was #4 worldwide and bud was # 2 in 2022. Snow and Tsingtao are #1 and #3 (Snow is only sold in China). It was very much a young trendy folks demo but then my observations of that were a over a decade ago. It’s still wild to see it sold as a “premium” beer in other countries. The point it it’s international branding is in conflict with its US branding.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:21
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Bar Ran Dun posted:UK and Europe is the big one I’m thinking of. Bud light was #4 worldwide and bud was # 2 in 2022. Snow and Tsingtao are #1 and #3 (Snow is only sold in China). Modelo being the biggest selling beer of the month would be good news for InBev... if we were talking about a country other than the United States. I didn't know until reading about the controversy how all the branding rights have been spread around.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:28
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Willa Rogers posted:Wait, there was a consumer boycott against Charmin? It was apparently Cottonelle. Different toilet paper brand. https://www.metroweekly.com/2019/03/cottonelles-pro-gay-ad-gets-a-lovely-response-from-conservatives/ https://twitter.com/rjlarrivee/status/1101310847257853952
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Jul 11, 2023 21:33
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Eric Cantonese posted:Modelo being the biggest selling beer of the month would be good news for InBev... if we were talking about a country other than the United States. It’s AB InBev, so it’s literally the same company they’re buying from.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:38
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Bar Ran Dun posted:It’s AB InBev, so it’s literally the same company they’re buying from. InBev had to sell Modelo's US business to Constellation Brands in order to avoid antitrust trouble. It's a rival corporate conglomerate benefitting from all the increases in Modelo's popularity. https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2021/09/ab-inbev-sues-constellation-over-modelo-beer/ So it's not like they're totally laughing in secret here. If it was really that circular, InBev's corporate leadership would probably not have made the mistakes they did.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:44
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It was apparently Cottonelle. Different toilet paper brand. Eh, that corduroy-rear end tp should've been boycotted bc of its quality. But I don't see anything about a boycott in your linked story, only a bunch of randos' tweets.
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Jul 11, 2023 21:59
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Speaking on astroturfing, misinfomation, and trans rights, a hair salon in MI is banning T+ people because: quote:I have no issues with LGB. It’s the TQ+ that I’m not going to support. For those that don’t know what the + is for, it’s for MAP (Minor Attracted Person aka: pedophile) This stance was taken to insure that clients have the best experience and I am admitting that since I am not willing to play the pronoun game or cater to requests outside of what I perceive as normal this probably isn’t the best option for that type of client. Yeah, those pluses like Asexual people are definitely known for being sexually attracted to kids. Just shows how misinformation just flies willy-nilly in getting right wingers all worked up about the dumbest stuff, and the Supreme Court rulings and stuff just help this to run rampant. https://slate.com/news-and-politics...bpMsrEf6gSBH6kA
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Jul 11, 2023 22:58
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Willa Rogers posted:Eh, that corduroy-rear end tp should've been boycotted bc of its quality. what are they tweeting about? 
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Jul 11, 2023 23:01
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I thought Republicans hated cancel culture, why are they trying to cancel Bud Light and Cottonelle?!?!?!?!
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Jul 11, 2023 23:01
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Darko posted:Speaking on astroturfing, misinfomation, and trans rights, a hair salon in MI is banning T+ people because: I wonder what they think Q stands for.
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Jul 11, 2023 23:12
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InsertPotPun posted:what are they tweeting about? This is just people talking past each other - obviously if you look for #BoycottBrandName you will probably find at least one random result, but that doesn't mean it was, like, a trending tag or an actual controversy that got broadly reported on. I don't consume any news shows, but I still heard about the Bud Light and Target poo poo - I have no clue what this Cottonelle thing is in reference to, but it also seems like it was literally just "an ad with a gay couple somewhere" which isnt exactly spicy in 2023 (or 2019 for that matter) - if someone is going to boycott for that they would have to boycott anyone who has a float at Pride or whatever, it's such a settled issue in comparison to the trans rights fight which is current and pressing and charged on both sides
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Jul 11, 2023 23:16
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Darko posted:Speaking on astroturfing, misinfomation, and trans rights, a hair salon in MI is banning T+ people because: What is it with barber shops? Growing up it seems like everyone one we went to had crazy “Proctor and Gamble worships satan” stuff posted on the walls or other stuff of that kind.
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Jul 11, 2023 23:29
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if you own your own small business, you can put mostly whatever the hell you want up in your window*
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Jul 11, 2023 23:32
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World Famous W posted:if you own your own small business, you can put mostly whatever the hell you want up in your window* Yeah I know they can, it just seems weird that it seems like it’s always barber shops that actually do. Like I never see it at a little sandwich shop or whatever.
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Jul 11, 2023 23:34
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you just ain't looking hard enough!
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Jul 11, 2023 23:39
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:What is it with barber shops? Growing up it seems like everyone one we went to had crazy “Proctor and Gamble worships satan” stuff posted on the walls or other stuff of that kind. Barber shops often have set clientele already and get a lot of referral based business. Pandering with or agreeing to a certain type of client probably won't really hurt your business. Plus they are EXTREMELY local-based in most instances.
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Jul 11, 2023 23:50
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InsertPotPun posted:what are they tweeting about? It's going to come to a shock, but in a country of 330 million people a lot of them have stupid opinions.  I meant that the story didn't include some organized boycott as we've seen with Target & AB, just some idiots tweeting. Nor were there any links to affected sales, unsurprisingly.
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Jul 12, 2023 00:01
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Mister Fister posted:Trying to pivot from your customer base of working class rednecks to upper middle class white liberals over a cheap lovely beer that only the former would drink is monumentally stupid, and i'm not surprised that a wealthy harvard educated marketing vp would be this out of touch. It didn't happen in a vacuum though, i imagine most conservatives are upset at having no cultural influence in any important institution of note, and it sort of boiled over. Say what now? I was with you up until that last part there. Can you elaborate on why you think they have "no cultural influence?" Because it could just be where I live but they seem to be culturally influencing poo poo like a motherfucker. Morrow posted:There's nothing terribly new about the trans fight. The right did the same thing for black people, Muslims, gays, and eastern european immigrants over the last hundred years. Same playbook, different target. It just shows how weak their culture war is that they're targeting such a small segment of the population now in order to eke out some win. "Where will it all END?" - conservative assholes BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jul 12, 2023 |
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Jul 12, 2023 00:31
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Lichen Subscribe posted:I find the rising cost of living in traditionally low-cost states like Florida an intriguing opportunity for the Democratic party. Florida's transition from a low-cost haven to a state with costs rivalling urban California and New York has been driven by significant population surge largely due to desirable weather conditions, absence of state income tax, snd the allure of coastal living. This is cautionary news for Republicans, as such a shift often comes with a demographic change that could sway political leanings towards Democrats, as seen in states with higher cost of living like California and New York. Lichen Subscribe posted:While there's merit to your argument, we're witnessing unprecedented shifts towards the Democratic party in historically staunchly Republican suburban areas. The sun-seeking snowbirds, too, are not a monolithic group politically. Of course, only time will reveal the full impact of these changes, but dismissing the possibility of political shifts in red states, or underestimating the Democrats' capacity to gain ground in these areas, could be a grave mistake. I’m 95% sure this is a ChatGPT response. It’s a new account just summarizing the post it’s replying to without actually saying anything in response.
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Jul 12, 2023 00:50
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