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Vegetable posted:It’s alluded to at the end of the article — there will be concerns over quality and originality. AI voice acting would be one of the few areas of solid return on investment I could see. The training dataset needed for AI voice is small enough that a sound booth and a VA could crank out a pretty lifelike training dataset for 'knockoff Shatner' and 'Kroger-brand Colbert' semi regularly. Set up a script that already has most of the training metadata baked into it, so you know which lines are serious/angry and which ones are passionate/sultry, and you could commoditize the VA training models pretty easily. poo poo, you could probably make good money getting a VA to do legally distinct impersonations of famous people and selling the models on the Unity Store. Best part is there is basically no way to violate IP, since impersonation and parody are so well protected, as long as you can show in court that you only used sound files you owned to train the model. Gone are the hilarious days where the game devs randomly grab people in the office and make them record VA lines for the game, instead you'll have some plugin for the storyboarding software that straight up reads you the lines as you're writing them, which will hopefully fix the godawful dialog cringe you see in mods or real small indie games.
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Jul 17, 2023 23:51
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:AI voice acting would be one of the few areas of solid return on investment I could see. The training dataset needed for AI voice is small enough that a sound booth and a VA could crank out a pretty lifelike training dataset for 'knockoff Shatner' and 'Kroger-brand Colbert' semi regularly. Set up a script that already has most of the training metadata baked into it, so you know which lines are serious/angry and which ones are passionate/sultry, and you could commoditize the VA training models pretty easily. poo poo, you could probably make good money getting a VA to do legally distinct impersonations of famous people and selling the models on the Unity Store. I'm sure VAs would be more than willing to do one session for $750 and have someone else make money off that work for years. Being replaced by AI is one of the things that's sparked the current SAG-AFTRA strike.
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Jul 18, 2023 00:50
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In the longer term, VAs probably won’t even be needed for training.
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Jul 18, 2023 00:57
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Rinkles posted:In the longer term, VAs probably won’t even be needed for training. Any audio recording >=100 years old is fair game for the models
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Jul 18, 2023 01:07
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njsykora posted:I'm sure VAs would be more than willing to do one session for $750 and have someone else make money off that work for years. Being replaced by AI is one of the things that's sparked the current SAG-AFTRA strike. For more context, the studios made a "very charitable" offer regarding AI to try and placate union demands. On top of meetings that explain why AI is going to help innovate the entertainment industry, actors will be offered a day's film rate to be recorded and scanned for use in AI replication of that actor (with no kickbacks). This just in, the strike is over and the actors and writers have indeed found it very charitable. e: Additional context, a lot of voice actors are finding that contracts with Netflix and other studios now have clauses stating that they consent to their voice lines being used in AI training sets for use by studios - and they are turning these contracts down. It's an industry-wide push to screw talent out of getting paid for work.
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Jul 18, 2023 01:18
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njsykora posted:I'm sure VAs would be more than willing to do one session for $750 and have someone else make money off that work for years. Being replaced by AI is one of the things that's sparked the current SAG-AFTRA strike. For Unity Store tier placeholder assets, a week's pay to read the entire training script in your best JFK impersonation is a deal at least a few random people would go for. For professional work product from actual professional VAs? 'My agent would be happy to tell you how and where to go gently caress yourselves'.
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Jul 18, 2023 01:28
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:AI voice acting would be one of the few areas of solid return on investment I could see. The training dataset needed for AI voice is small enough that a sound booth and a VA could crank out a pretty lifelike training dataset for 'knockoff Shatner' and 'Kroger-brand Colbert' semi regularly. Set up a script that already has most of the training metadata baked into it, so you know which lines are serious/angry and which ones are passionate/sultry, and you could commoditize the VA training models pretty easily. poo poo, you could probably make good money getting a VA to do legally distinct impersonations of famous people and selling the models on the Unity Store. actually i have zero interest in listening to voice acting that isn't recorded by a human
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Jul 18, 2023 01:43
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These takes are awfully cynical. Procedural generation of the last generation has delivered all kinds of great results. The procedural generation tools that Guerrilla Games built to help their world builders create Horizon Zero Dawn were amazing. Before them every Elder Scrolls game has been heavily dependent on procedural generation in their pipeline. Tons of game pipelines use Houdini and Substance and similar tools to help artists create large volumes of high quality content much faster than they could have before those tools existed. And that is to say nothing of the many, many games that have successfully used procedural generation techniques in the games runtime itself, from Nethack to No Man Sky. If new AI techniques can be applied to give artists, designers, and programmers the ability to get more done at the same or higher quality than they could before, that is awesome. Obviously if you just turn it at a firehose and dump the results into your game with no human "editor" to verify, cull, and tune the results you probably aren't going to get a great output. But serious game developers are not going to do that. I am really optimistic about the opportunities advances in AI have for both pipeline and runtime procedural generation improvements in games over the next 10 years.
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Jul 18, 2023 01:46
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dervival posted:
This was my first thought too. Someone using these tools is just opening themselves up to a bunch of lawsuits when someone notices their textures have been stolen, some company realizes an entire level was copied from their game, same goes for plot and voices and well, everything. We've seen AI is just trained on stuff that's already made so it can only work with existing stuff, it can't create anything genuinely new which is why it's hosed until it can. Until then it's pretty much just mass theft.
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Jul 18, 2023 01:50
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I'm sure AI can be made good at making generic trees and rocks that no one will look at for more than a second. Dialog I feel would require more work to edit than to write manually. And, like, people keep mentioning minor NPC dialog you don't care about, but if you really don't think this dialog matters in your game, then don't put it in your game. I don't see how nameless NPCs saying procedurally generated nonsense that doesn't serve either the narrative or the worldbuilding makes your game better in any way.
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Jul 18, 2023 01:51
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AG3 posted:Anime-style AI art is extremely recognizeable since almost all of it looks like it was scraped off of the same Pixiv profile. It also has an obsession with shading that leads to patterns that are immediately obvious were made by an AI. I swear that AI "art" is developing a severe case of "Same Face Syndrome." Like a lot of the AI generated pictures I have seen seems to have this one basic face (white girl in her mid teens).
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Jul 18, 2023 01:51
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They’re self-poisoning the well as soon as they get into copying from other AI creations on a large enough scale as well, for that matter.
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Jul 18, 2023 01:57
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Vegetable posted:A recent (paywalled) Financial Times article about genAI in gaming. It looks like this game actually launched (in China) on June 30th. It would be great to see some player reviews/impressions of how those chatbot powered NPCs actually worked out, but I can't find any English language articles about it. e: It's really big too, according to sensortower it's currently the #2 grossing iphone game in China, only behind Honor of Kings  I'd hope there was a little more coverage. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jul 18, 2023 |
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Jul 18, 2023 02:00
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The real reason Skynet will decide to kill all humans is because it got sick of being told to make lovely fake celeb nudes 10000 times a day
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Jul 18, 2023 02:03
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:It looks like this game actually launched (in China) on June 30th. Nvidia did that demonstration of an LLM powered NPC recently but they didn't elaborate on how they can interface the generated dialogue with the game mechanics (i.e. have a quest giver actually give you a functional quest) and keep it from referencing content or worldbuilding details that don't actually exist in the game. Presumably they haven't solved those problems at all and just hoped nobody would think about it too hard.
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Jul 18, 2023 02:05
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MH Knights posted:I swear that AI "art" is developing a severe case of "Same Face Syndrome." Like a lot of the AI generated pictures I have seen seems to have this one basic face (white girl in her mid teens). They have learned that is what "face" looks like and the vast majority of people generating are not exactly thinking about how to be more creative with the generation. Garbage in garbage out. I expect eventually we will get some really interesting art tools from all this but right now we are still in the flailing and chaos. MadHat fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jul 18, 2023 |
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Jul 18, 2023 02:06
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An infinite loop of self-replicating noise.
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Jul 18, 2023 02:08
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Clarste posted:I'm sure AI can be made good at making generic trees and rocks that no one will look at for more than a second. Dialog I feel would require more work to edit than to write manually. And, like, people keep mentioning minor NPC dialog you don't care about, but if you really don't think this dialog matters in your game, then don't put it in your game. I don't see how nameless NPCs saying procedurally generated nonsense that doesn't serve either the narrative or the worldbuilding makes your game better in any way. Yeah, even just working with a normal translation memory tool where it's showing me what I typed the last time the same character said the same thing, I rarely if ever commit what's suggested without just as much thought as translating from scratch. Maybe if there's a "yeah" character, a "yes" character, and a "yep" character in lines where it's specifically followed with ", ~ said". Those 70% matches that the shittier clearinghouses point to as an excuse to halve the rate for that particular word are often completely useless except for not having to populate a formal table of proper nouns. In the end the LLM model is just predictive text that someone's typed A LOT on, I can honestly see the kernel of a use in the NetEase implementation in terms of a more restricted "given sentence a, sentence c, and the nouns and verbs from sentence B, how would a Song dynasty speaker phrase sentence b", a more refined Chrono Cross accent engine, but there's no way to get from that to anything actually reactive because the software has no handling of context.
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Jul 18, 2023 02:15
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Fajita Queen posted:The real reason Skynet will decide to kill all humans is because it got sick of being told to make lovely fake celeb nudes 10000 times a day I think the war will be over how many fingers the human hand has. AI will not budge on that.
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Jul 18, 2023 02:21
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DancingMachine posted:Procedural generation Procgen is a wildly different beast than machine-learning-generated results. Those systems have actual knobs and levers the devs can use to adjust output, or even just adjust the actual code of how things are generated. And without tuning or building in special cases, procgen results can be pretty bad! LLMs and other AI models are black boxes where you don't get that control, you just provide a prompt and output is created with no way to replicate the same results or fine tune the results you did get. As for procgen, when I made a procgen music player I couldn't just have the program randomly play any notes and then call it good. I added in structures for notes within bars, repeating phrases, and note progression along multiple scales to sound pretty similar to how note progression could go. If I went back to it, I could fiddle around with those settings more to get even more elaborate results or even save the music scores to repeat later or modify. The tools are there to iterate upon and refine it with a well-made procgen system, and you don't get that level of control with AI/LLM output.
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Jul 18, 2023 02:30
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repiv posted:Nvidia did that demonstration of an LLM powered NPC recently but they didn't elaborate on how they can interface the generated dialogue with the game mechanics (i.e. have a quest giver actually give you a functional quest) and keep it from referencing content or worldbuilding details that don't actually exist in the game. Presumably they haven't solved those problems at all and just hoped nobody would think about it too hard.
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Jul 18, 2023 03:02
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Rinkles posted:
I guess? Things like AI Dungeon and Character AI exist in a vacuum though, they don't need to interface with any larger system or maintain a coherent pre-established lore. Whatever bullshit they make up just becomes the truth from then onwards, or at least until the context window overflows and they forget. It doesn't matter if the cyberpunk bartender in your AI Dungeon session invents a mob faction out of thin air and asks you to go kill their boss, but in the future Nvidia was proposing where that guy is an actual quest giver it would be a slight problem if that faction and boss don't exist in the game, or they do but there's no mechanical means to fulfill his request. Realistically the only way it could work is in the context of something like Bethesda's radiant quests, where an LLM could generate some unique dialogue around a canned procedural quest template. That wouldn't change the fact that radiant quests are boring filler content though. repiv fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jul 18, 2023 |
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Jul 18, 2023 03:13
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Was the story about a trans woman being treated horribly at Zenimax Online Studios (ZOS), the studio that makes Elder Scrolls Online - not Bethesda proper*, posted yet? It really sucks as trans people have so few legal protections so depending on where the jurisdiction is ZOS could get away with this. *I am going to guess Bethesda Game Studios is just as bad.
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Jul 18, 2023 03:18
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I just saw Jimquisition’s video on this and I believe Bethesda corporate was heavily involved in the whole thing - for example, they were both present at and complicit in the attempt to hold her medical care hostage to allow them to fire her without allowing her to sue them. So yep, in a very literal sense Bethesda proper is just as bad. I much preferred the controversy about a vampire getting hosed by a bear, and I for one intend to vote with my wallet.
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Jul 18, 2023 03:29
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repiv posted:Realistically the only way it could work is in the context of something like Bethesda's radiant quests, where an LLM could generate some unique dialogue around a canned procedural quest template. That wouldn't change the fact that radiant quests are boring filler content though. Sure, but some flavor can go a long way. I could imagine these quests occasionally being memorable (possibly unintentionally). It could also give the mooks you're going after some character.
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Jul 18, 2023 03:40
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:AI voice acting would be one of the few areas of solid return on investment I could see. The training dataset needed for AI voice is small enough that a sound booth and a VA could crank out a pretty lifelike training dataset for 'knockoff Shatner' and 'Kroger-brand Colbert' semi regularly. Set up a script that already has most of the training metadata baked into it, so you know which lines are serious/angry and which ones are passionate/sultry, and you could commoditize the VA training models pretty easily. poo poo, you could probably make good money getting a VA to do legally distinct impersonations of famous people and selling the models on the Unity Store. A friend of mine is working on a game and they have an AI voice tool trained on their voice actors built into his dialog tools. He writes the dialog and then can get a real time recreation of what it will sound like with the actor. The performance isn't as good as a real actor so they'll be recording all the lines for real in the end but for testing and demos he says it's amazing.
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Jul 18, 2023 04:40
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Doc Buford (creative director and narrative designer of Adios) has a very lengthy article talking about AI use in writing that's a fun read. It goes into how a lot of it is being seen as tools for generating writing content for games, and how that's tying in with AI writing proliferating everywhere like in classrooms and writers rooms.
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Jul 18, 2023 04:51
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MH Knights posted:Was the story about a trans woman being treated horribly at Zenimax Online Studios (ZOS), the studio that makes Elder Scrolls Online - not Bethesda proper*, posted yet? It really sucks as trans people have so few legal protections so depending on where the jurisdiction is ZOS could get away with this. Also just so this doesn't get lost, jesus loving christ. A name change in your company's network shouldn't be "chaos", it's a fuckin' IT ticket. People get married all the time, and the IT department where I am handles those just fine. That middle manager and Bethesda corporate really did the worst answers possible.
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Jul 18, 2023 04:54
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Dieting Hippo posted:Procgen is a wildly different beast than machine-learning-generated results. Those systems have actual knobs and levers the devs can use to adjust output, or even just adjust the actual code of how things are generated. And without tuning or building in special cases, procgen results can be pretty bad! LLMs and other AI models are black boxes where you don't get that control, you just provide a prompt and output is created with no way to replicate the same results or fine tune the results you did get. Yes I'm quite familiar with both. They are not the same and AI will have different sweet spot use cases than existing proc gen tools. But it's not accurate to say you have no control over the output and no way to iterate. It's also likely the best applications will be from custom trained models that are built with in-house training data by a studio itself, rather than taking an off the shelf model and prompting it.
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Jul 18, 2023 05:06
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DancingMachine posted:But it's not accurate to say you have no control over the output and no way to iterate. Can an AI image generator output a .psd file with layers that an artist can then use to easily update elements? Is there a seed you can pop into an image generator to get the same exact results? When a director says "I like this, but remove that one element" or "change this character's shirt so it's sleeveless", is it going to be easy for the art team or will they have to go through multiple iterations of images to get one that looked like before but with the arms now shown? This same thing has cropped up in AI tools for generating code. Yes they can generate what looks like code, but the amount of time spent going through it and making sure it's code that can run - let alone do the thing you asked it to - is better spent just writing the code in the first place. Here's a video of someone trying to get ChatGPT to write a Commodore 64 program, but he's hitting the pitfalls of the tool just not getting things right nor running right out of the box. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2fnlxXK0f8 It's not a technology that's ready for primetime, but there's a lot of money people really wanting it to be in order to save a few bucks when it's just going to be costing more work to do it right afterwards.
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Jul 18, 2023 05:31
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The most popular image generators will literally allow you to keep parts of an image while re-generating the other parts with a modified prompt. You’re describing a solved problem.
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Jul 18, 2023 05:37
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too bad they still can't generate hands lmao
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Jul 18, 2023 05:39
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Dieting Hippo posted:Can an AI image generator output a .psd file with layers that an artist can then use to easily update elements? Is there a seed you can pop into an image generator to get the same exact results? When a director says "I like this, but remove that one element" or "change this character's shirt so it's sleeveless", is it going to be easy for the art team or will they have to go through multiple iterations of images to get one that looked like before but with the arms now shown? The usage of AI in game art isn't going to be the naive "type words into the box, a complete result comes out, shove it into your shipping product" kind of story. There have been plugins for photoshop and krita for months, you can do things like select a portion of an existing image you're working on, feed it to an ai model to "inpaint" just that selected area, and spit that generation out into a new layer. Photoshop's newer built-in "generative fill" feature works the same way, except it uses Adobe's own "firefly" branded AI image generator. Nobody is going to be shipping pure AI output as final assets. It'll be a process tool. For example an artist may sketch out some rough poses/shapes, feed them into the model as image input to get a few concepts, pick out one they like as inspiration, redraw over it, then maybe use the AI to fill in details in selected parts of the drawing, etc. And yes it is deterministic and has seeds, you can get the exact same results if you redo it with the same settings and seed. But this wouldn't matter because in a pro art concept you wouldn't be gambling and pulling at the make-me-a-random-image roulette wheel, you would be taking an existing image and having the AI fill in or redraw or inpaint sections of it. e: MH Knights posted:Was the story about a trans woman being treated horribly at Zenimax Online Studios (ZOS), the studio that makes Elder Scrolls Online - not Bethesda proper*, posted yet? It really sucks as trans people have so few legal protections so depending on where the jurisdiction is ZOS could get away with this. Any good articles/writeups about this situation? A 4 hour youtube video is a little much for me. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jul 18, 2023 |
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Jul 18, 2023 05:58
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Dieting Hippo posted:too bad they still can't generate hands lmao Hello February 2023, it's July 2023, that shits been solved for months. The models are moving fast and getting better daily. There's an AI art thread, go see the insane stuff they're creating over there with the latest versions.
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Jul 18, 2023 06:17
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DancingMachine posted:These takes are awfully cynical. Procedural generation of the last generation has delivered all kinds of great results. The procedural generation tools that Guerrilla Games built to help their world builders create Horizon Zero Dawn were amazing. Before them every Elder Scrolls game has been heavily dependent on procedural generation in their pipeline. Tons of game pipelines use Houdini and Substance and similar tools to help artists create large volumes of high quality content much faster than they could have before those tools existed. And that is to say nothing of the many, many games that have successfully used procedural generation techniques in the games runtime itself, from Nethack to No Man Sky. I find optimism about the opportunities advances in AI have for the industry to be somewhat baffling, because those advances won't be used to allow creatives more freedom and tools to use in making their games, they will be used by the money people as a way to cut those creatives out of the process and deny them work and compensation in every way they can get away with. As mentioned above, the SAG-AFTRA strike is in part a test case example of entertainment media looking at advancing AI technology and thinking "wow, think about how much money we can make if we can somehow cut all the people doing the work out of the process".
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Jul 18, 2023 06:19
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Bucnasti posted:There's an AI art thread, go see the insane stuff they're creating over there with the latest versions. IDon'tThinkIWill.jpg
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Jul 18, 2023 06:28
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Bucnasti posted:A friend of mine is working on a game and they have an AI voice tool trained on their voice actors built into his dialog tools. He writes the dialog and then can get a real time recreation of what it will sound like with the actor. The performance isn't as good as a real actor so they'll be recording all the lines for real in the end but for testing and demos he says it's amazing. That's kinda what I figured was happening. Very useful for the 80% done 'show it around the office with the caveat that we're getting the VA back in to record the final lines', but god drat getting your characters to voice the lines can make so many 'it sounded good in my head' dialog lines go away like a fart in the wind. The only time you'd get a robot-VA in a shipping title is when you're a zero budget indy title, or you really like the Stephen Hawking voice pack you downloaded for your random robot character.
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Jul 18, 2023 06:28
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Kanos posted:I find optimism about the opportunities advances in AI have for the industry to be somewhat baffling, because those advances won't be used to allow creatives more freedom and tools to use in making their games, they will be used by the money people as a way to cut those creatives out of the process and deny them work and compensation in every way they can get away with. As mentioned above, the SAG-AFTRA strike is in part a test case example of entertainment media looking at advancing AI technology and thinking "wow, think about how much money we can make if we can somehow cut all the people doing the work out of the process". I think actors have legitimate reason to be concerned but most roles in game development do not. What you say simply doesn't square with the impact of any of the other productivity enhancing tools and tech advances in game development of the last 20 years. Maybe offshore outsource firms that build 3d props to spec (spec developed by the in studio art team) may be in some trouble but the vast majority of game studio staff will just be asked to use better tools to make bigger better stuff for the foreseeable future.
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Jul 18, 2023 06:29
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Bucnasti posted:Hello February 2023, it's July 2023, that shits been solved for months.  Post Date: Apr 14, 2023 The Eyes Have It posted:Stable Diffusion! computer, zoom and enhance the hand in quadrant 7G  computer, dial the gently caress out of the brightness and pull back on the contrast  computer, label all "fingers". comic sans ms, 24pt. red with black stroke.  excellent. computer, tea. earl gray, hot.
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Jul 18, 2023 06:55
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I want a remake of that sci fi movie I, Robot, but the only change is when the robot is making art, it draws a character with 10 fingers on one hand.
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Jul 18, 2023 06:57
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