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Moff Moff Binks has no time for small-time politicking - he has to set the stage for his apprentice's return and ultimate demise so that his return to power will be unopposed
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Jul 12, 2023 06:35
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mycot posted:The Expanded Universe tried many times to make anti-alien racism a part of the Empire and it never really came off as convincing to me. Sure, out of universe we are going to be biased toward the human characters and know the important characters are going to be human, but in-universe it's never really implied in the movies that humans are anything special. I don't know how you can look at, say, Chewbacca (and Jar Jar, the Ewoks...) without realizing that human supremacism is absolutely a thing in the movies. It's like, y'know, how A New Hope starts off with a droid slave auction. Gilroy's right that the situation of non-humans in Star Wars is touchy - and especially so when the films eschew liberal identity politics and make clear that Nemoidia's socioeconomics are bad. Tusken raiders do kidnap and torture Anakin's mom, etc. - but this is all in the context of a broader human-supremacist system. Lucas conveys all this nuance with effortless shorthand, but I'm not sure you can give the subject the Andor treatment without it becoming a central topic of the show.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:02
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I thought it was very poignant and effective when the commandant spoke of the natives of Aldhani as being not only hopelessly primitive culturally, but also easily manipulated due to their inferior intelligence, and then it showed them and they were humans. Really drives the point home that Imperial ideology is simply full of poo poo, and offered reassurance that the show won't be coming out in support of that kind of sci-fi racialism that crops up so often. However, I love to see strange life forms and I hope that some more show up in bigger roles in season 2.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:14
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I guess if they wanted more they could have had one of the other prison wings or floors or whatever be all one of the alien species. I figured thay's what they were going for when Cassian was in the line to get on the prison transports and they were asking everyone what world they were from (wasn't there an alien or two in that line?) The entire administrative arm of the empire being so disfunctional that they don't even realize they already caught him was amazing.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:28
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Assepoester posted:Weren't the ghormans the first to rebel? Who are the ghormans? In Star Wars lore, Tarkin killed a few hundred protestors on Ghorman by landing a starship on them, and that was the incident that finally got Mon Mothma to snap and throw away her senate cred by publicly calling for open rebellion against the Empire. Her speech to the senate and the aftermath of her fleeing from Coruscant was covered in Rebels, and Tony Gilroy's mentioned it in interviews, so it'll definitely be something that comes up in Season 2.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:42
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Star Wars has always had a bit of a problem where its alien designs are sweet but the aliens themselves are usually rather uninteresting compared to other scifi franchises. They're funny-looking guys and not much else. This is exacerbated by humans being shown to be vastly superior in numbers to every other species, which implies a past of genocide and colonial expansion, probably too grim to come up in the movies.
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Jul 12, 2023 10:02
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It appears that the people referred to as Tuskens are the traditional custodians of Tatooine. The human outposts would rightfully be considered colonial outposts. The Skywalkers are farming on land which was never ceded.
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Jul 12, 2023 10:11
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Right, I should have precised that this colonial dynamic is still ongoing (see also the Gungans, etc), it's just that the demographics you can extrapolate from the movies imply violence on a much larger scale.
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Jul 12, 2023 10:15
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The Skywalkers are also clearly dealing in chattel slavery, those droids are obviously sentient and free-thinking.
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Jul 12, 2023 10:19
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I'm thinking an all-droid remake of Spartacus would be interesting
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Jul 12, 2023 10:26
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well why not posted:It appears that the people referred to as Tuskens are the traditional custodians of Tatooine. The human outposts would rightfully be considered colonial outposts. The Skywalkers are farming on land which was never ceded. It's possible that Tatooine is where Star Wars humans come from, which means it's a different kind of colonialism.
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Jul 12, 2023 10:31
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well why not posted:It appears that the people referred to as Tuskens are the traditional custodians of Tatooine. The human outposts would rightfully be considered colonial outposts. The Skywalkers are farming on land which was never ceded. Yep, hence the danger of Tusken Raider attacks on settlements. How the Skywalker farm is able to survive out in the middle of nowhere with Lars, Beru, and young Luke and not get overrun by hostile Sandpeople I don’t know that I’ve ever heard explained. I suppose like Native Americans, the Sandpeople have been beaten down and forced into isolated areas, far away from human settlements and cities like Mos Eisley. I guess.
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Jul 12, 2023 10:31
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Gnome de plume posted:I'm thinking an all-droid remake of Spartacus would be interesting This was Fincher's pitch to Disney for his sequel trilogy. The Empire might be defeated, but 50% of the galaxy is still a slave race, and tensions from the Clone Wars boil over into a droid rebellion.
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Jul 12, 2023 10:47
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they're called 'tusken raiders' because they literally raided Fort Tusken, which is the tatooine equivalent of the alamo. it would've been nice if the boba fett show had done more with 'em, and preferably mentioned what term they used to describe themselves. knowing both star wars and real life, it probably translates as 'people of the sand'.
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Jul 12, 2023 10:47
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I'm not sure the exact way to phrase this, but neither "Sand People" or "Tusken Raiders" strikes me as a euphemism they'd appreciate.ungulateman posted:they're called 'tusken raiders' because they literally raided Fort Tusken, which is the tatooine equivalent of the alamo. Boba show was entirely squandered premise.
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Jul 12, 2023 11:57
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Droid personhood
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Jul 12, 2023 14:29
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Aliens in SW are a lot like non white people in mainstream TV/movies: theres always some in the background, some villains, some supporting characters etc. But when it comes to people who really matter, they will be mostly/all (white) humans
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Jul 12, 2023 14:36
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No Mods No Masters posted:People seem to often find those answers persuasive, maybe they even are, but I think he's imagining being an alien to be a more loaded thing than it's usually depicted as in star wars. You can argue that rings false in the modern day or it's naive or it's not gritty enough to suit andor, but it is the setting it is. He's imaginging it from a scifi perspective rather than a fantasy perspective. Trying to get into the details of how the aliens go to the bathroom, what do they eat, etc. Instead of just saying 'they go to the bathroom.' which is the solution we get with Chewie That being said, I wouldn't have minded a line or two about how the Empire thinks aliens are so subhuman that they don't believe they're worth using as slave labor and simply execute most of them, but that's a bit too grim.
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Jul 12, 2023 14:57
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trevorreznik posted:That being said, I wouldn't have minded a line or two about how the Empire thinks aliens are so subhuman that they don't believe they're worth using as slave labor and simply execute most of them, but that's a bit too grim. It's canon in Star Wars that humans are by far the most populace species in the galaxy by a huge margin so it wouldn't even be out of place as a reason for that.
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Jul 13, 2023 01:27
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Neo Rasa posted:It's canon in Star Wars that humans are by far the most populace species in the galaxy by a huge margin so it wouldn't even be out of place as a reason for that. I don't think humans are even close to the majority of people in the movies, especially if you don't count clones, and even if you don't count droids as people (they are). There's a ton of gunguns, geonosians, wookies, tuskens, ewoks, etc. trevorreznik fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Jul 13, 2023 |
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Jul 13, 2023 02:12
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trevorreznik posted:He's imaginging it from a scifi perspective rather than a fantasy perspective. Trying to get into the details of how the aliens go to the bathroom, what do they eat, etc. Instead of just saying 'they go to the bathroom.' which is the solution we get with Chewie Chewie uses a litterbox that takes up a whole cargo bay
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Jul 13, 2023 02:20
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Remember porgs?
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Jul 13, 2023 03:39
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La Louve Rouge posted:They hired designers for the prequels and then for the sequels they said "people will be reminded of the prequels!!" so they hired a guy to sift though ralph mcquarrie's rejects They really were terrified of reminding people of the prequels right as there was a huge surge of nostalgia and re-examination of the prequels.
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Jul 13, 2023 06:42
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Neo Rasa posted:It's canon in Star Wars that humans are by far the most populace species in the galaxy by a huge margin so it wouldn't even be out of place as a reason for that. That’s an obvious bullshit to explain away why only Andor instead jumps right to the point: the Rebel Alliance has always been white as gently caress.
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Jul 13, 2023 21:21
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to be fair, the Rebel Alliance breaks down more on class lines than race lines relative to the Empire. Admiral Ackbar has the 'right culture fit'; there's no way Leia would call him a 'walking seafood market' if he was there to rescue her from the Death Star.
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Jul 14, 2023 01:34
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Always seemed weird to me that the ST took the lily white British villains and made a bunch of them women and minorities Like you're doing an even more overt nazi analogue here, why are they more multicultural
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Jul 14, 2023 02:27
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Disney are nazi sympathizers and also nazis love useful minorities - to be fair to the sequels, trilla dies, phasma dies, finn is branded a traitor, all the poc imperials are disposable to white ol' hux/ren/palpy
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Jul 14, 2023 02:52
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Wolfsheim posted:Always seemed weird to me that the ST took the lily white British villains and made a bunch of them women and minorities The Empire is a huge part of the brand, Stormtroopers have always been more popular than Rebel grunts. It's more convenient for marketing purposes if they're just generic authoritarian lovers of order rather than real life racists.
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Jul 14, 2023 06:24
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Robot Style posted:In Star Wars lore, Tarkin killed a few hundred protestors on Ghorman by landing a starship on them, and that was the incident that finally got Mon Mothma to snap and throw away her senate cred by publicly calling for open rebellion against the Empire. I love that it's pretty much entirely Tarkins fault that the Rebellion started and grew so quickly and that he was too dumb to take them out properly when they were handed to him on a silver platter. Thrawn needed magic bullshit to stop him, and should have been leading the military, but the Empire was too racist for that so dumbass Tarkin had the top spot instead and continuously screwed things up.
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Jul 14, 2023 13:10
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Wolfsheim posted:Always seemed weird to me that the ST took the lily white British villains and made a bunch of them women and minorities There are multiple different things going on. First, Rey is the white British villain of the ST. It’s the basic joke of her accent. It returns to the fact that Palpatine’s ultimate goal is for the Resistance to succeed, and for Rey to become God-Empress of the Neo New Republic. Palpatine has all along been setting the groundwork for Leia’s Neofeudalists to become the dominant power in the Galaxy. To that end, Palpatine deliberately stokes factionalism and infighting within the First Order. So that it never gets too strong. Although the FO party is broadly Snokist, there’s none of the Empire’s ideological uniformity. What this means is that, unlike with the Empire, it’s likely that the majority of the FO characters are not imperialists at all, in the original sense. Like, if you asked Snoke if he agrees with Palpatine and the Empire, he would certainly give a firm “no.” The FO is only fascist insofar as JJ Abrams quotes Starship Troopers in the opening scene of his trilogy: war makes fascists of us all. Starship Troopers, often misread as just dunking on Nazis, is a satire of liberalism at the time of the Gulf War. This includes liberal multiculturalism, where humans of all kinds unite against the hated Bug. In Star Wars characters like Mace Windu and Lando are black, but they’re not Chewbacca black. On the racist/speciesist hierarchy, they’re obviously even well above Elan Sleazebaggano - and Chewbacca isn’t the lowest, either. The FO isn’t liberal, but they are multicultural and their ideological failure is similar. Kylo is totally dismissive of the ‘lumpen’ scavengers - and so is Rey! So, in the end, you don’t see many aliens in the ST for the same reason they severely downplay the droid rights angle: the aliens, who must make up the vast majority of the Galactic population, are elsewhere. Conspicuously absent.
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Jul 14, 2023 22:15
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Starship Troopers, often misread as just dunking on Nazis, is a satire of liberalism at the time of the Gulf War. This includes liberal multiculturalism, where humans of all kinds unite against the hated Bug. In Star Wars characters like Mace Windu and Lando are black, but they’re not Chewbacca black. On the racist/speciesist hierarchy, they’re obviously even well above Elan Sleazebaggano - and Chewbacca isn’t the lowest, either. The FO isn’t liberal, but they are multicultural and their ideological failure is similar. Kylo is totally dismissive of the ‘lumpen’ scavengers - and so is Rey! Among other things, this means that we should count Bright as a Star Wars sequel.
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Jul 15, 2023 18:08
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No, we should never discuss it and all let it drift into the memory hole
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Jul 15, 2023 21:04
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Okay having finally done the full Ep I -> Ep II -> full Clone Wars saga -> Ep III...cartoon fans are vindicated, Ep III is 100% a better film with seven seasons of Ahsoka and co's adventures bouncing around in your head to fill in all the characterization otherwise missing from Ep III. The final four episodes of CW basically running parallel as a kind of Ep III-2 is such a good choice, like they give Vader the pathos he should have had in the movie about him? It almost annoys me how well they pull it off considering the CW movie that kicks it all of us is so egregiously bad lol I was never intending on watching Rebels at all, but now I'm wondering if I should try to cram it all in before this Ahsoka show drops. Is Star Wars...good, sometimes???
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Jul 19, 2023 00:30
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Animated Star Wars is usually good, I'd even extend that to Bad Batch which people seem to call the worst of the animated stuff. I personally think the only live action stuff that is better than the Bad Batch is Andor.
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Jul 19, 2023 01:08
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the characterization isn't precisely 'missing' from episode 3, but you can definitely feel big jeorg straining to fit as much of the fun space adventures he wants to tell into the first half-hour as he can, without compromising on the actual narrative (and plot) of the film. the part where 13+ years of fun space adventures get skipped between episodes 1-5 (along with the big gap between 3/4) is part of the charm of star wars, imo. it's the reverse of 'they died' - they lived, and you can decide for yourself what they were doing.
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Jul 19, 2023 03:30
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My biggest problem with Rebels is that it seems to be aimed at a slightly younger demo than the best of TCW (e.g. the final season), though maybe not much younger based on an average episode. The goofiness, the stakes, the level of intelligence the average character tends to operate on, it all just reads more "kids show" than "all ages show" much of the time.
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Jul 19, 2023 03:55
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Star Wars is for children
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Jul 19, 2023 04:08
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feedmyleg posted:My biggest problem with Rebels is that it seems to be aimed at a slightly younger demo than the best of TCW (e.g. the final season), though maybe not much younger based on an average episode. The goofiness, the stakes, the level of intelligence the average character tends to operate on, it all just reads more "kids show" than "all ages show" much of the time. It's really obvious with episodes like Twin Suns which still has to have a bunch of Ezra's misadventures despite them being unrelated to the main point of the story.
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Jul 19, 2023 04:44
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Wolfsheim posted:Okay having finally done the full Ep I -> Ep II -> full Clone Wars saga -> Ep III...cartoon fans are vindicated, Ep III is 100% a better film with seven seasons of Ahsoka and co's adventures bouncing around in your head to fill in all the characterization otherwise missing from Ep III. The final four episodes of CW basically running parallel as a kind of Ep III-2 is such a good choice, like they give Vader the pathos he should have had in the movie about him? It almost annoys me how well they pull it off considering the CW movie that kicks it all of us is so egregiously bad lol ROTS works as a strange follow-up to Clone Wars in a similar fashion to the relationship between Twin Peaks and Twin Peaks Return. The characters and the settings are the same, but everything is oddly stiff and weird. That would work best if someone saw ROTS after CW for the first time, but it's enough to imagine how that would feel.
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Jul 19, 2023 06:04
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Wolfsheim posted:I was never intending on watching Rebels at all, but now I'm wondering if I should try to cram it all in before this Ahsoka show drops. Is Star Wars...good, sometimes??? Do not wonder. Just do it, you won't regret it. Especially now that you've seen just how enriching and embellishing the animated ventures are.
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