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I always opted to go with the originals on blu-ray, but what little I saw of the remastered effects, I was like "Eh, fine." They're not very well executed, but same could be said of the originals which really do look ropey. Therefore, you wind up with two completely different eras of charmingly crap effects. As to the TNG remasters, what's everybody's opinion there? I can't really comment on the originals, having only ever seen a clutch of episodes, but I was always of the outsider-looking-in opinion that it was a deeply unpleasant looking "beige" show. Going through the remastered ones I'm thinking it looks filmic and vibrant and the effects are often pretty amazing! Am I seeing the show at its best on my first run, or is some charm gone?
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Jul 17, 2023 02:18
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The TNG remastered are largely the original effects, just composited with modern techniques. There are a handful of places where they went full CG out of necessity (original motion passed couldn't be found) or because of subtle enhancement (keeping the ship lights on as they transition to warp. It's 100% how it would have looked in the 90s if they would have had a modern production pipeline
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Jul 17, 2023 02:35
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The TNG remasters are generally regarded as an incredible achievement. There are some issues with season 2 where they used a different effects company, but you have to be pretty nitpicky for it to really bother you. It's still leagues better than what we ever expected to get, and the rest of the seasons are pretty much perfect.
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Jul 17, 2023 02:36
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I’m usually extremely demanding of wanting to see the original effects, warts and all, but they did such a great job with TNG that I can’t really imagine anything else. I have a handful of laserdiscs of TNG, which look fantastic on period appropriate equipment, but the HD version is the one.
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Jul 17, 2023 02:41
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yeah upgrading compositing is one of the cases where you're not really changing the original vision, just fixing technological mishaps
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Jul 17, 2023 02:45
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MuddyFunster posted:but I was always of the outsider-looking-in opinion that it was a deeply unpleasant looking "beige" show. I always just took that as people talking about the colour of the walls and upholstery in the Enterprise, not a comment about the overall look of the show. The Enterprise has a lot of beige>>TNG is a beige show. In the era of glossy floor Trek I usually see people pining for the days of beige lol
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Jul 17, 2023 02:53
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the TNG remasters are really great. they've been out a pretty long time now and are still impressive, the vfx for the TOS one have aged terribly i can see someone referring to the show as "beige" though, like maybe if they'd maybe only seen an episode that's heavy on speechifying and aren't into that kind of thing. those are mostly bottle shows, and the enterprise has sets that are very neutral toned, and the uniforms are muted colors too
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Jul 17, 2023 03:05
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Boxturret posted:I always just took that as people talking about the colour of the walls and upholstery in the Enterprise, not a comment about the overall look of the show. The Enterprise has a lot of beige>>TNG is a beige show. I miss beige and more even lighting. All the modern treks except for Lower Decks feel like they are trying to be fancy with the lighting, whether via excessive colour correction or just having a ship where turning the lights on is illegal. I started watching the Orville recently and I'm in love with that show, and one of the things that's helped is that it's very evenly lit and beige as gently caress. It rules.
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Jul 17, 2023 04:48
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MuddyFunster posted:As to the TNG remasters, what's everybody's opinion there? I can't really comment on the originals, having only ever seen a clutch of episodes, but I was always of the outsider-looking-in opinion that it was a deeply unpleasant looking "beige" show. This wasn't just TNG, a lot of US shows in the late 80s/early 90s had that weird icky tobacco-yellow hue. I don't know the specifics, but I know it was something about the NTSC standard just butchering colours. Things got better as the 90s went on, you can see a massive improvement between DS9 S2 and S3.Dunno if they changed the tape standard, or whether digital editing let them do colour correction on the final image, but whatever they were doing it came just a bit too late for TNG.
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Jul 17, 2023 06:05
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The Doomsday Machine is one of the TOS episodes I watched because I read it was the inspiration for Unicron, and while the tube/cone shape is dorky and it lacks the Jack Kirby-esque nonsense of Unicron's inner workings, that horrifying flashing maw really captures the same feeling of horror as it looms ever-nearer. The episode is a mixed bag. There's some nice pathos with the crazed captain, but for the backstory and moral, they never really learn anything about the Doomsday machine, Kirk just kind of pulls a possible origin out of his rear end, and then looks at the audience and tells them nukes r bad. Eimi posted:I miss beige and more even lighting. All the modern treks except for Lower Decks feel like they are trying to be fancy with the lighting, whether via excessive colour correction or just having a ship where turning the lights on is illegal. I started watching the Orville recently and I'm in love with that show, and one of the things that's helped is that it's very evenly lit and beige as gently caress. It rules. I think that's kind of just an industry-wide issue. A lot of TV out there just has really lovely lighting because that's the style, I don't really know why, maybe some people have better screens than I do or they're just all expected to black out their windows and watch in the dark. A lot of people seem convinced that if everything is pitch black except for some harsh lighting on a few bits, that looks cooler. I think it's worse what the overuse of color-correction has brought, because it means that all use of color gets reserved for the editor in post-production, so all props, costumes, and backgrounds have to be a muddled brown that can get tainted to whatever color the editor wants the entire frame to be. If you're lucky you get one additional accent color, but that's pushing it. And it's a very stark contrast with the original series where they were just trying to cram as many colors as possible into a scene because they were happy that they could have any color at all, and they weren't very concerned with how the technology kinda messed up a number of colors.
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Jul 17, 2023 06:05
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MrMojok posted:I do know a couple of people who insist on watching them as they originally aired, but I have never really understood that. The CGI changes to TOS are nothing but great IMO, none of them are intrusive, or make any significant changes... the ship scenes just look a lot better. Could not disagree more with this. The CGI updates are largely atrocious, with the majority of shots not even attempting to match the 60s aesthetic. There's an occasional well-done shot by one of the effects houses, but by and large they look incredibly out of place and add nothing. They look exactly like cheap 2010s CGI suddenly interrupting a show made in the 1960s.
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Jul 17, 2023 07:05
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I just watched Night Terrors. That’s a genuinely disturbing episode for me, it’s like a horror flick. It reminded me of a time recently when due to a couple of things that were going on, I’d slept only about three hours in a 48 hour stretch. I eventually began to see movement in my peripheral vision, something small and quick at times like a rat running, and other times shadows moving on walls. But when I’d whip my head around, of course there was nothing there. Also began to hear things that weren’t there either, combined with being absolutely convinced there was somebody in the house at like 2AM when really it was just me. And the part when Beverley was talking about losing cognitive abilities and finding yourself unable to concentrate and think properly, that was all happening to me too. Ugh.
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Jul 18, 2023 00:00
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If it helps going without REM sleep for a few days doesn’t kill you IRL, it’s just called having sleep apnea. Not great, it sucks, but you can live with it.
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Jul 18, 2023 00:10
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You can live with it.
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Jul 18, 2023 00:18
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Arivia posted:If it helps going without REM sleep for a few days doesn’t kill you IRL, it’s just called having sleep apnea. Not great, it sucks, but you can live with it. I was going to make a big long post about how “Code of Honor” is a weird world building mish-mash of Homeric values and Iroquois culture that gets bulldozed by the even more weird choice to lean on the “black men steal a white woman” trope… But instead I implore you go get a CPAP machine. Seriously. Your life will improve so much.
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Jul 18, 2023 00:31
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McSpanky posted:You can live with it. Computer, delete that entire CPAP machine
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Jul 18, 2023 00:53
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Schisms would have been a lot shorter of an episode with that diagnosis.
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Jul 18, 2023 00:55
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zoux posted:Computer, delete that entire CPAP machine My CPAP machine is so powerful is scared away the old hag that stands at the foot of my bed.
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Jul 18, 2023 00:56
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"Favourite Son" is an incredibly Roddenberry-inspired episode goddamn. Harry Kim gets abducted by beautiful women who want to gently caress him to death! Could've run that one right in TOS.
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Jul 18, 2023 14:34
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Waves and waves of cum
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Jul 18, 2023 16:37
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first voyager stereotypical irish holodeck program episode was very bad second one is even worse so far to the point I miss Beverley's Scottish sex ghost there's gonna be a third, ain't there? gently caress
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Jul 18, 2023 20:29
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They custom made a perfect Irish village, Janeway's going around being the muse for DaVinci, yet the Doctor wanted one holofamily and they had to mess with it because it was too unrealistic 
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Jul 18, 2023 20:44
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I love how Torres' idea of a realistic family wasn't just dysfunctional by 24th century standards, but practically by Jerry Springer standards. Got some things you wanna get off your chest, B'lanna?
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Jul 18, 2023 22:50
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McSpanky posted:I love how Torres' idea of a realistic family wasn't just dysfunctional by 24th century standards, but practically by Jerry Springer standards. Got some things you wanna get off your chest, B'lanna? we know from faces and some other episodes that her father abandoned her mother and her because he found living with two klingons too hard, and torres blames herself for it, so yeah, she's got some pretty sad history with what a family should be
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Jul 18, 2023 22:59
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Boxturret posted:They custom made a perfect Irish village, Janeway's going around being the muse for DaVinci, yet the Doctor wanted one holofamily and they had to mess with it because it was too unrealistic Irrespective of that, it IS kind of cool/fascinating that like almost every season they had a new mainstay holodeck hangout for the crew to visit, between the Pub, the Spa, DaVinci's loft, Fairhaven and Captain Proton's rocket. I enjoyed that aspect of Voyager.
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Jul 18, 2023 23:10
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What wondrous world (with a set that already exists on the Paramount lot) will our intrepid Voyagers enjoy next
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Jul 18, 2023 23:18
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Another season 1 TNG two-fer! Arsenal of Freedom and Skin of Evil. The first of which was quite enjoyable. Liked that they found a decent use for the battle bridge, Geordie getting command, there's a nice Troi scene, some Picard/Crusher bonding and an amusing little wrap up. Always love seeing Schiavelli too! Good! As for the latter... Well. On the one hand, great concept, the look of the oily evil bastard, great. The final little line of dialogue between Data and Picard is very moving. Generally good bits from most of the cast all round. On the other hand, feels like we barely get enough of Yasha Tasha Wossname for her death to truly have any impact. She basically spends much of her screen time looking concerned or annoyed and not being very memorable at all, except for that one episode with Troi's mum where her hair is inexplicably huge. Or the one very racist episode where she is captive white woman. Or, y'know, when she fucks the robot. Otherwise, we barely knew ye, thingy. No, really, I have no idea who you were as a person. Lastly, while I like the concept and look, having Oily Boy growling at everybody like a particularly pissy Saturday morning cartoon villain ("VERY GOOD, TIN MAN!"), bit rubbish. I know Season 1 was a bit of a mess, I'm curious to see the Making Of... when it's over to see if they go into what the deal with Crosby's exit was. I'm assuming she jumped ship (har har) because the writing wasn't very good? I have heard the same from Gates McFadden as the reason she's not in Season 2. Which reminds me, I've got Pulaski on the horizon! Okay, fine! Open mind!
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Jul 19, 2023 00:51
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MuddyFunster posted:Another season 1 TNG two-fer! Arsenal of Freedom and Skin of Evil. The first of which was quite enjoyable. Liked that they found a decent use for the battle bridge, Geordie getting command, there's a nice Troi scene, some Picard/Crusher bonding and an amusing little wrap up. Always love seeing Schiavelli too! Good! Shatner did a documentary on Season 1's trainwreck shitshow of a rollout called Chaos on the Bridge that was pretty good and comprehensive on the matter and basically gets the inside deets from all parties involved aside from Gene because he's dead and Leonard Maizlish, Gene's creepy weirdo lawyer who basically became the shadow head writer of TNG for a while because he also died right around the time Gene did too. Unfortunately, that also means it has a LOT of testimony in it from Maurice Hurley, the misogynistic prick who was primarily responsible for both Denise Crosby and Gates McFadden bailing on the show by the time Season 1 had wrapped, and it does not take him to task at all for what an absolute piece of poo poo he was right up until the day he finally mercifully died. It's still an interesting watch though if you can find it.
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Jul 19, 2023 00:56
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MuddyFunster posted:Another season 1 TNG two-fer! Arsenal of Freedom and Skin of Evil. The first of which was quite enjoyable. Liked that they found a decent use for the battle bridge, Geordie getting command, there's a nice Troi scene, some Picard/Crusher bonding and an amusing little wrap up. Always love seeing Schiavelli too! Good! Weirdly Tasha gets much better characterization after she leaves the main cast. The episode with her sister, Yesterday's Enterprise, etc - she's a good character in the end, but it sadly had to come after Denise Crosby left. (Even All Good Things has some character development for her, thinking about it!)
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Jul 19, 2023 01:05
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Question for the thread; I’m about to start a Star Trek Adventures TTRPG campaign but a couple of the players have watched very little/none of the shows and only have a passing knowledge of the characters you’d expect (Kirk, Spock, Picard, etc). Because of this they’re a little apprehensive about playing in a setting they’re so unfamiliar with, but I really want them to play anyway because I know they’ll have fun. Do any of you know of a decent video that basically recaps and summarizes the bulk of the TNG/DS9 era, preferably one made with newbies in mind?
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Jul 19, 2023 01:52
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HoloMoriarty gained sentience because Geordi is a good mechanical engineer, but a poo poo prompt engineer. Edit: Big Mean Jerk, I suggest introducing your players to Improvised Star Trek. While not an actual ‘live play’ podcast, this a group of top notch Chicago Improvisers with an encyclopedic of Star Trek. It’s a parody, but that just highlights all of the particular tropes of Star Trek. There’s a bit about why you shouldn’t make real babies with a replicator that honestly frames the limitation of technology quite well. Dbl edit: and, by that reasoning, Lower Decks would serve the same purpose. Marsupial Ape fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 01:53
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Marsupial Ape posted:HoloMoriarty gained sentience because Geordi is a good mechanical engineer, but a poo poo prompt engineer. Riker says “now you’re my kind of girl!” To Minuet going “mmm candy gang gang”
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Jul 19, 2023 01:57
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Arivia posted:Weirdly Tasha gets much better characterization after she leaves the main cast. The episode with her sister, Yesterday's Enterprise, etc - she's a good character in the end, but it sadly had to come after Denise Crosby left. (Even All Good Things has some character development for her, thinking about it!) I know she’s said that had they written her more like they did in Skin of Evil she would’ve stuck around. My impression is that Crosby left because she didn’t think her character was well used and McFadden “left” because she pushed back against sexism in scripts, and probably on set as well, and therefore clashed with the show runner. There was a huge staff shakeup before s3, even got a new cinematographer
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Jul 19, 2023 02:11
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Question for the thread; How much time are they willing to put in? Rowan J Coleman has a good series but they're long: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0nUOPq31Ug Maybe have 'em watch the OT and TNG ones.
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Jul 19, 2023 02:54
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I say make em roll characters newly introduced to warp civilization and learn about what the universe is like with fresh eyes. It's a prebuilt framework for storytelling that you can be intimately familiar with and surprise the hell out of them at the same time
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Jul 19, 2023 02:59
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zoux posted:I know she’s said that had they written her more like they did in Skin of Evil she would’ve stuck around. My impression is that Crosby left because she didn’t think her character was well used and McFadden “left” because she pushed back against sexism in scripts, and probably on set as well, and therefore clashed with the show runner. There was a huge staff shakeup before s3, even got a new cinematographer From what I understood, Denise left because they didn't do much with her character and she didn't want to spend the rest of the series standing behind the wooden arch on the bridge. Marina stated that, had Denise not left, there was a good chance that Troi would have been killed off instead, since they didn't really know what to do with character most of the time. She gathered this after talking with Majel, who confirmed that they were seriously considering killing Troi off.
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Jul 19, 2023 09:23
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Yeah it was pretty obvious the writers didn't seem to know what to do with Troi. That Guinan just worked a lot better in the counselor role certain didn't help, but even before that Troi often just seemed to be there, except at any point she might be able to instantly solve a problem.
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Jul 19, 2023 09:51
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It's interesting, I know people have a thing about Troi, but early on at least, I'm finding her pretty handy for upping the pace of stories. Just an aside like "He's hiding something..." amps the intrigue immediately. Of course, I don't know how any of these characters evolve, she might get way worse. Might get reduced back to how she was in the pilot, bleating "PAIN! PAIN! HORRIBLY ICKY PAAAAIN!" I suppose it's kind of similar to how Wesley's THE WORST THING EVER, then you actually watch it and he's... Quite the endearing little dork.
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Jul 19, 2023 10:42
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You’ll notice that Troi conveniently disappears in episodes where the conflict could be avoided by her being around
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Jul 19, 2023 12:43
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Kind of like when those handsome fish people wake up and Lwaxanna is like, lol they're terrorists and they're gonna blow up the conference.
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Jul 19, 2023 12:56
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