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davidspackage posted:Yeah, last time I went through the first TNG seasons, I was like "drat, they're being really mean to this kid" think of the environment he's in — they're officers in a pseudomillitary service, on the bridge (or on an away mission, etc.) of an incredibly complex starship yes, wesley supposedly knows what he's doing. but if you were some random officer on the enterprise, would you really trust him? i wouldn't want some kid around either
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Jul 20, 2023 16:19
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Also I know it's come up here that Season 1 feels like TOS/Phase II retreads and it turns out nothing in Season 1 was actually an idea not used from Phase II, but the fact that they just did a pretty light reskin of a TOS episode really contributes to that feeling.
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Jul 20, 2023 16:20
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i remember reading here that they did "naked now" because production was starting without (m)any scripts being finished, but yeah, doing a poor retread of a TOS episode as their second one was an absolutely terrible idea. it contributes to a sense that i've read was a common sentiment at the time, "this new crew is like the last one, but worse" like of course that didn't pan out to be true, but i'm sure at the time it added fuel to the fire
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Jul 20, 2023 16:24
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Wesley standing up for himself in Datalore is really good actually. "That everything that I have said would have been listened to if it came from an adult officer. Request permission to return to my quarters, sir." This is especially after they TOLD Wesley to check in on Data first. WORF: This is strange, sir. I show Commander Data transmitting on a subspace channel. RIKER: I know Data's been doing considerable research on Doctor Soong's background. Let's be sure. Wesley, would you look in on Commander Data? Discreetly? WESLEY: Yes sir! So, "Data" is acting suspicious, Riker sends A CHILD down to check on possibly a nefarious android and when he voices his impression later, he gets told to shutup. 8 year old me was all there for that when it aired.
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Jul 20, 2023 16:25
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wesley definitely has some good moments, but his "heh, adults  " attitude makes the crew seem incompetent when they can't solve something a kid can and is nonetheless grating
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Jul 20, 2023 16:27
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If they wanted to do the midshipman thing where there’s a kid on the bridge learning the work, they should have just…had it be a thing, instead of making Wesley the only kid who gets to play with the big boy toys. Real, historical fighting navies have done it—you can argue that that was an insane thing for them to have done, but the Ent-D already has a bunch of civilians and literal children on board anyway! You could still spin plenty of drama out of him being the son of the doctor and the captain’s old friend. The focus on the uniqueness and genius of Wesley hurts more than it helps imo.
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Jul 20, 2023 16:53
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Datalore is just a really bad episode, even by season one standards. We get a lot of Data exposition that ends up not being relevant to anything and feels more like someone saw the bit in the writer's guide about Data having the memories of a doomed colony and wanted to establish that onscreen but couldn't work out anything interesting to do with it. Then we get seemingly interminable scenes of characters showing Lore around the ship before he finally turns out to be evil - which the audience had realized as soon as he showed up. He's got no motivations and just wants to kill everyone because he's evil. Then we get the idiotic 'shut up Wesley' scene where everyone forgets that they were the ones who told Wesley to keep an eye on Data in the first place as it all suddenly becomes a crappy kids show where the parents just don't listen to the kid protagonist. It's really kind of amazing that the show would later bring back both Lore and the Crystalline Entity and actually do interesting things with both of them.
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Jul 20, 2023 16:55
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Also in a climax that resolves around Data being unable to use contractions, the episode enda eith Data using a contraction
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Jul 20, 2023 16:59
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No Dignity posted:Also in a climax that resolves around Data being unable to use contractions, the episode enda eith Data using a contraction
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Jul 20, 2023 17:16
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Would have been better if it had ended with Data reminding them he uses contractions all the time. Like that one DS9 ep with O’Brien’s coffee
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Jul 20, 2023 17:24
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skasion posted:If they wanted to do the midshipman thing where there’s a kid on the bridge learning the work, they should have just…had it be a thing, instead of making Wesley the only kid who gets to play with the big boy toys. Real, historical fighting navies have done it—you can argue that that was an insane thing for them to have done, but the Ent-D already has a bunch of civilians and literal children on board anyway! You could still spin plenty of drama out of him being the son of the doctor and the captain’s old friend. The focus on the uniqueness and genius of Wesley hurts more than it helps imo. I agree with all of this, especially that last line. Anytime the Teen Wunderkind stuff comes up it's seriously groanworthy, it's good enough just to have him as a bright, promising young man who needs to learn the ropes.
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Jul 20, 2023 17:52
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Well, I've had the S1 making of... on, that was nice and fluffy, reasonably informative, yet only vaguely touched on the behind the scenes troubles. So thanks to whoever it was who suggested Shatner's Chaos on the Bridge, which was a bit more candid and enlightening. Maurice Hurley comes off a bit of a prick. Calling Gene's whole vision "whacky doodle", but then insisting on sticking to it to the letter is very bizarre to me, it sounds like he was truly doing it for the money and didn't have any real conviction beyond "I do not like Gates McFadden, get her gone". I'm a little more apprehensive going into S2 now. The edict about there being "no conflict" confuses me slightly as there's conflict all over the place throughout season one. Hell, Riker and Picard are in conflict from the word go.
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Jul 20, 2023 17:55
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Watching the TNG episode where Geordi meets the real Leah Brahms and oh god Geordiiiiii 
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Jul 20, 2023 17:56
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Lord Hydronium posted:I always thought that was supposed to be an "Or is it...?" type ending to make the audience think it might still be Lore. Lore: Doesn't anybody notice this?? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!
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Jul 20, 2023 18:02
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DaveWoo posted:Watching the TNG episode where Geordi meets the real Leah Brahms and oh god Geordiiiiii And thus the Incel movement was born.
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Jul 20, 2023 18:19
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skasion posted:TOS aired what they had. “Charlie X” aired second because it was quicker to finish production, as a bottle episode (the ship exterior shots are reused—notice how you never see the ship Charlie came from). “Where No Man…” aired third because it was the second pilot episode shown to the network, and therefore already finished. I never got why they didn’t open with Where No Man…, since it was already completed. Did they think The Man Trap was a better episode? Or was it more cynical in that The Man Trap was ready and had the more colourful uniforms, which, given TOS was used to promote colour TVs, was a better promotional opportunity than the muted colours of Where No Man…
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Jul 20, 2023 18:52
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Zaroff posted:I never got why they didn’t open with Where No Man…, since it was already completed. IIRC Justman talks about this in “Inside Star Trek”, they had a slate of early episodes they could run and it came down to “Man Trap” being a straightforward, strange-new-world story complete with alien monster. One of the other options was “Mudd’s Women”, so they dodged a bullet there.
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Jul 20, 2023 19:14
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skasion posted:If they wanted to do the midshipman thing where there’s a kid on the bridge learning the work, they should have just…had it be a thing, instead of making Wesley the only kid who gets to play with the big boy toys. Real, historical fighting navies have done it—you can argue that that was an insane thing for them to have done, but the Ent-D already has a bunch of civilians and literal children on board anyway! And decades later, it's what Prodigy S2 is about! I look forward to it!
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Jul 20, 2023 20:03
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MikeJF posted:And decades later, it's what Prodigy S2 is about! I look forward to it! We regret to inform you that
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Jul 20, 2023 20:47
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DaveWoo posted:Watching the TNG episode where Geordi meets the real Leah Brahms and oh god Geordiiiiii I did like that she allowed him to explain the situation and how it got so weird, and IIRC ends the episode less horrified by it because he needed someone to bounce off in that prior episode, she seemed a good match and things just... developed in an odd direction. He wasn't being a deliberate creep, the situation was just a very weird one that had a strong emotional stressor so poo poo got weird.
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Jul 20, 2023 21:16
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Well, you were all discussing Troi and The Child a few pages back, I was thinking that'd be waaaay down the line, but Christ, what a crazy way to kick off a season. The A/B plot co-incidence is bananas, Troi getting knocked up with SPACE BABY at exactly time that it would cause the most jeopardy with all the viruses they're transporting and then the whole thing just whimpers out with a giant confused shrug. That all said, the cast are great, Riker's finally got his beard, first appearance of Ten Forward and Guinan and a minor C plot with Wesley that's quite sweet. A very mixed bag of "what is this poo poo" and "okay, cool". Then, Where Silence Has Lease, which feels about as "standard" Trek as you can get and I liked it a lot. I'm a big fan of space clouds, yessir, do love me a weird cloud in space. Start cranking that Goldsmith mystery score and let me watch flying through space clouds forever, chuck in a bit of "Oh, I just came out of that door" headfuckery while you're at it. Quite similar in theme to The Child, an alien species examining humanity, but far less nonsensical. Also a lot less non-consensual impregnation, so it's got that going for it. Pulaski certainly is there, doing things.
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Jul 21, 2023 00:15
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BioEnchanted posted:I did like that she allowed him to explain the situation and how it got so weird, and IIRC ends the episode less horrified by it because he needed someone to bounce off in that prior episode, she seemed a good match and things just... developed in an odd direction. He wasn't being a deliberate creep, the situation was just a very weird one that had a strong emotional stressor so poo poo got weird. The hologram AI also probably helped take things a little too far, considering the kind of thing it's usually used for
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Jul 21, 2023 00:22
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I actually really like Where Silence Has Lease, just for its vibes. The whole bit where they are on the fake Yamato and it's just hosed up and super creepy in a way TNG usually wasn't, plus I love Worf losing his poo poo at it and trying to fight with the doors
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Jul 21, 2023 00:31
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Tighclops posted:I actually really like Where Silence Has Lease, just for its vibes. The whole bit where they are on the fake Yamato and it's just hosed up and super creepy in a way TNG usually wasn't, plus I love Worf losing his poo poo at it and trying to fight with the doors Me too. I also like the (spoiler for people watching for the first time) self destruct scene and Picard just chilling out in his quarters, listening to [Erik] Satie.
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Jul 21, 2023 00:40
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That entire scene with Picard's musings on death is fantastic stuff, I should have pointed that out. The Yamato sequence is great as well for taking the familiar, comfy bridge set, draining the warmth and colour out, making it a liminal space.
MuddyFunster fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 01:04
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That’s where I am up to in my TNG rewatch. As an aside, I got a cheapie HD video projector from WalMart and a pull-down screen, and I got to say its looks pretty good and is an optimal way to marathon early season TNG.
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Jul 21, 2023 01:27
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Tighclops posted:I actually really like Where Silence Has Lease, just for its vibes. The whole bit where they are on the fake Yamato and it's just hosed up and super creepy in a way TNG usually wasn't, plus I love Worf losing his poo poo at it and trying to fight with the doors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tKvKGVqbTw
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Jul 21, 2023 01:31
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Tighclops posted:I actually really like Where Silence Has Lease, just for its vibes. The whole bit where they are on the fake Yamato and it's just hosed up and super creepy in a way TNG usually wasn't, plus I love Worf losing his poo poo at it and trying to fight with the doors  that's absolutely my favorite part of the episode. i wish they'd done more poo poo like it
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Jul 21, 2023 01:35
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worf.exe has stopped working and must shut down
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Jul 21, 2023 01:41
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"Where Silence Has Lease" comes off as TNG's answer to "Corbomite Maneuver" without just being a simple redo of it. The confrontation with an unknown new thing with undefined vast powers, the suicide bluff against what might as well be god. Extended tension and dread, in this case mixed with cosmic horror themes. One of the realest moments of Picard being a hardass here too. I bet they don't teach the kids about that on Captain Picard Day!
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Jul 21, 2023 02:09
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CrimsonAuthor posted:The hologram AI also probably helped take things a little too far, considering the kind of thing it's usually used for Computer: "please specify 'non-sexual scenario.'" Tighclops posted:I actually really like Where Silence Has Lease, just for its vibes. The whole bit where they are on the fake Yamato and it's just hosed up and super creepy in a way TNG usually wasn't, plus I love Worf losing his poo poo at it and trying to fight with the doors Yeah, the spooky TNG episodes are some of my favorites. Like Remember Me, or the one where everyone gets knocked out and it turns out they've lost two days, and Data ain't talking. They nearly all have disappointing conclusions, but the vibes are definitely excellent.
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Jul 21, 2023 06:34
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CrimsonAuthor posted:The hologram AI also probably helped take things a little too far, considering the kind of thing it's usually used for It's fair to say the holodeck's AI is pretty messed up considering Riker and Barclay are the power-users.
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Jul 21, 2023 10:25
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Computer, show me a table. *wooden table appears* Make it a metal table. *table morphs into a torture rack*
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Jul 21, 2023 13:49
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V-Men posted:It's fair to say the holodeck's AI is pretty messed up considering Riker and Barclay are the power-users. The Bynars upgrading it to be a sexy distraction for Riker didn't help matters.
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Jul 21, 2023 14:27
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Just finished watching "Half a Life", and I have to say, the episode is a lot better than its description had led me to believe. It's great to finally have an episode that treats Lwaxana with a degree of dignity and respect, instead of just treating her as a punchline. And David Odgen Stiers does a great job in his guest role - when he describes the whole "Resolution" process, he makes it sound almost reasonable. Just a really good episode overall. Watching "The Host" now, and it's interesting watching the pre-DS9 version of the Trills, with the different makeup and different rules about how they work.
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Jul 21, 2023 19:47
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DaveWoo posted:Just finished watching "Half a Life", and I have to say, the episode is a lot better than its description had led me to believe. It's great to finally have an episode that treats Lwaxana with a degree of dignity and respect, instead of just treating her as a punchline. And David Odgen Stiers does a great job in his guest role - when he describes the whole "Resolution" process, he makes it sound almost reasonable. Just a really good episode overall. Yeah "Half A Life" was probably one of my top 5 TNG episodes when I did my series watch recently. It's great that they let the two guest stars play off each other and let that story go and just got the main cast out of the way. It's not always the right thing to do, but that episode needed it. Also, you may have noticed it, but that was Michelle Forbes as Stiers' character's daughter.
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Jul 21, 2023 20:06
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It also starts out with one of the best jokes in the series. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuFTi_kEyJo&t=5s "My mother is on board" cut to Picard nervously peaking around the corner.
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Jul 21, 2023 20:18
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Boxturret posted:It also starts out with one of the best jokes in the series. Replace the soundtrack at the start with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r42BIBfWwao&t=214s
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Jul 21, 2023 21:14
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FuturePastNow posted:Computer, show me a table. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXX0dKw4SjI I mean, it really starts morphing into a torture rack at Worf's additions...
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Jul 22, 2023 01:27
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TNG did pretty good when it dabbled in horror.
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Jul 22, 2023 01:32
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