Ukraine: The Aristoblyats

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Ukraine: The Aristoblyats

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

I know somebody personally that got the Popeye muscle. He ended up managing to get it reattached; it was minor (HAH!), not the full wrap, but he was medicalled out anyway. Parachuting is so loving sketch and there are so many creative ways to get hosed up with it. Military airborne is actually some of the most carefully trained and monitored because Jumpmaster School makes you absolutely laser-focused on equipment checks and procedure.

I heard Blood on the Risers when I was in high school and I decided on the spot gently caress the Airborne those guys are nuts you can have it lol.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 23:35

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:46

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

I still love that loving song.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 23:40

Saul Kain: Dec 5, 2018; Lately it occurs to me,

what a long, strange trip it's been.

bulletsponge13 posted:

The worst injuries in the Airborne are nearly always static line related. I think it was around 03/04, some dude at Bragg got his arm basically degloved from bicep to wrist. In Airborne school, they shared an anecdote that someone once had their entire arm pulled off, and was dead before landing.

I went through Airborne school late June-early July in 2004. Those were anecdotes shared with our class.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 23:48

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

bulletsponge13 posted:

I still love that loving song.

You're also 60% shrapnel by weight and hosed in the head from too many explosions, so who can say lol

jk you're a really solid dude

# ? Jul 19, 2023 23:49

Kchama: Jul 25, 2007

orange juche posted:

You're also 60% shrapnel by weight and hosed in the head from too many explosions, so who can say lol

jk you're a really solid dude

... Are you saying that because there's 40% of him that ISN'T shrapnel?!

# ? Jul 19, 2023 23:51

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

Kchama posted:

... Are you saying that because there's 40% of him that ISN'T shrapnel?!

There's got to be sponge to hold the bullets in

# ? Jul 19, 2023 23:51

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

The Airborne made me into the man I am today.

# ? Jul 19, 2023 23:54

Wasabi the J: Jan 23, 2008; MOM WAS RIGHT

orange juche posted:

You're also 60% shrapnel by weight and hosed in the head from too many explosions, so who can say lol

jk you're a really solid dude

The solidness is arthritis

# ? Jul 20, 2023 00:43

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

Wasabi the J posted:

The solidness is arthritis

And fused disks :corsair:

# ? Jul 20, 2023 00:56

That Works: Jul 22, 2006; Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy

Wasabi the J posted:

The solidness is arthritis

Lol

# ? Jul 20, 2023 01:31

PurpleXVI: Oct 30, 2011; Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/19648

quote:

Kyiv has called for the International Criminal Court to issue an arrest warrant for the head of the Belarusian Red Cross Society, after he admitted his organization was involved in the removal of children from Ukraine for so-called �health improvement� purposes.

In an interview filmed in the Russian-held Ukrainian city of Lysychansk and broadcast on Belarusian TV on Wednesday, Dmitry Shevtsov said he was upset at accusations that his country was involved in the kidnapping of children, insisting Minsk was helping them to escape from and deal with the trauma of war.

This war hasn't really been good for the reputation of non-profit NGO's.

# ? Jul 20, 2023 12:28

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

PurpleXVI posted:

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/19648

This war hasn't really been good for the reputation of non-profit NGO's.

This one is more of an NGO being obviously suborned by the Russian government, which just attests to the importance of being able to identify a rogue chapter or whatever.

If the whole Red Cross comes out in support of this shithead, then condemn the org, like we do the DSA for refusing to condemn Russia lol

# ? Jul 20, 2023 16:01

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

Wasabi the J posted:

The solidness is arthritis

Word.

# ? Jul 20, 2023 19:47

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

PurpleXVI posted:

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/19648

This war hasn't really been good for the reputation of non-profit NGO's.

Apparently the guy in question, donning the Z whilst in Ukraine

# ? Jul 20, 2023 20:06

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Quick roundup of the SECDEF and CJCS press briefing following the latest Ukraine Contact Group meeting. I'll also throw an excerpt from the Joint Staff Directtor for Operations, J3, below. Not terribly much said. Updates are 2-5 days old now.

This time I am not including the full intro the way I usually do, because while long, it does not say much. You can read it in full in the link below.
https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...-chairman-gene/

Highlights:
-F-16s probably not that helpful and very expensive in current fight compared to other land-based capabilities and SAMs. Denmark and Netherlands are heading up that training effort. Cites minefields as a much bigger problem than air power for Ukraine right now.
-Counteroffensive is ongoing, but going slower than hoped. War is hard and unpredictable, etc.
-DPICM confirmed delivered as of 13 July. Also says another country other than the US previously gave Ukraine cluster munitions, but does not specify which country that was.
-Ukraine has uncommitted combat power, but Russia also has extensive and complex defenses in depth

quote:

STAFF: All right, thank you. The second question will go to Idrees Ali with Reuters.

Q: Thank you. Chairman Milley, we're now entering the fifth week of the counteroffensive, so going into the sixth week. And you publicly have talked about, as have others in the U.S. government, about how the counteroffensive is going slower than expected. I appreciate the realities of the front lines, the mines and the situation there, but has the counteroffensive stalled? And how is this not a failure so far?

And, Secretary Austin, you talked about the alliance and the contact group being together. But publicly, there seems to be a bit of fraying. Defense Minister Wallace last week said that he had told his Ukrainian counterparts that, quote/unquote, "We are not Amazon, and that they should show us some appreciation."

Do you agree with the sentiments that Secretary Wallace expressed?

And what exactly do the Ukrainians need to, sort of, break the front lines and the security zone and make the progress that you had expected them to make?

SEC. AUSTIN: Well, first, thanks, Idrees. And I'll answer first, and then the chairman can chime in. You know, we're just off of -- just back from the summit in Vilnius, and what I witnessed in Vilnius was indeed unity and cohesion, in every meeting that I sat in.

And so I would -- it's the same thing that I witnessed today as I talked to ministers of defense and chiefs of defense. That unity is still there. There's no question that we have provided Ukraine a lot, we, the international coalition. Ukraine is in a fight, and we have to remember that, when you're in a fight, you want everything that you can get your hands on. And so that's to be expected.

Ben Wallace and I have worked along with coalition partners over the last year or so on this particular issue, and Ben has done a lot to enable and to help the Ukrainian military. And so he's been a great partner. But, again, I continue to see unity and cohesion. I continue to hear ministers say that we're going to support Ukraine for as long as it takes.

And I heard their leaders say the same thing in Vilnius last week. This is more -- much -- this is about much more than just Ukraine. This is about the rules-based international order. And I think people realize that. People around the globe realize that. And, you know, it's about the ability of a country to protect its sovereign territory. And so there's an interest across the -- around the globe to ensure that Ukraine can be successful in defending its sovereign territory.

...

GEN. MILLEY: So, just, I would say a couple things. First of all, the Russians have had several months to put in a very complex defense in depth, the linear defense in depth. It's not quite connected trench lines like World War I, but it's not dissimilar from that, either -- lots of complex minefields, dragons' teeth, barbed wire, trenches, et cetera. They've got a very extensive security zone in depth, and then they've got at least two, perhaps even three main defensive belts.

So they've had a long time to prepare that. Now, they suffered a lot of casualties, the Russians did, to date. So they've also done that mobilization, you know, from months ago. So the troops that are manning those Russian lines are poorly trained, poorly equipped. Their sustainment and logistics is not high. Their morale is low. And now, recently, because of the Prigozhin mutiny, the command-and-control apparatus at the strategic level is certainly confusing at best and probably challenging in many, many other ways.

At the operational, tactical level, they've had significant casualties among their officer corps. But in addition to that, the recent events of Prigozhin has also led to, and you're reporting it in the media, about various folks being replaced.

So the Russian situation is not very good, even though they've been fighting a fight because of the minefields. What the Ukrainians have, though, is a significant amount of combat power not yet committed. And I will not say what's going to happen in the future because that's going to be a Ukrainian decision to -- as to where and when they commit their reserve, et cetera.

Right now, they are preserving their combat power and they are slowly and deliberately and steadily working their way through all these minefields. And it's a tough fight. It's a very difficult fight.

It started about five or six weeks ago. And the various wargames that were done ahead of time have predicted certain levels of advance. And that has slowed down. Why? Because that's the difference between war on paper and real war. These are real people in real machines that are out there really clearing real minefields and they're really dying.

So, when that happens units tend to slow down and that's rightly so, in order to survive, in order to get through these minefields. So, they're working their way through it. It is far from a failure, in my view. I think that it's way too early to make that kind of call. I think there's a lot of fighting left to go.

And I'll stay with the what we've said before, this is going to be long, it's going to be hard, it's going to be bloody. And at the end of the day, we'll see where the Ukrainians end up, vis-a-vis the Russians.

SEC. AUSTIN: And Idrees let me just tag onto what he Chairman said. I absolutely agree with everything the Chairman said. What I would remind you that we -- this is not over. We continue to generate combat power. We're training three -- training and equipping three brigades in Germany right now and there's other training ongoing around the region, as the Chairman pointed out earlier.

Countries continue to provide platforms. And, you know, we talked about the additional Leopards and infantry fighting vehicles that are on the horizon, as well as artillery pieces. And so, we're going to continue to generate combat power. We're going to continue to push in additional Bradley fighting vehicles, and also Strykers and artillery pieces. And you heard the Chairman mention that earlier. So, our work continues. And we're going to do everything we can to make sure that Ukrainians can be a success.

...

GEN. MILLEY: So Missy, the -- I'd offer two things. One is, you know, what's the military problem to solve here with the air power? And it's control of the airspace, and you can do that two ways. You can do that air-to-air or you can do that from the ground to the air.

In terms of the most effective and efficient and cost-effective way to do that right now for the Ukrainians is from ground to air through air defense systems, and that's what they've been provided from the beginning if this war 'til now. And that's important, because what you want to do is protect those assault forces from Russian close-air support and/or attack-helicopter support, and they've got air defense systems, the Ru- -- Ukrainians do, that can do that.

The casualties that the Ukrainians are suffering on this offensive are not so much from Russian airpower; they're from minefields, minefields that are covered with direct fire from anti-tank hunter-killer teams, that sort of thing. So it's minefields. So the problem to solve is minefields, not the air piece right this minute. And that's what the coalition is trying to provide them: additional mine clearing, MICLICs, line charges, Bangalores -- that sort of thing, in order to continue to work their way through the minefields.

So I'm confident that they can do this, and especially if they execute the tactics, techniques and procedures that they've been taught, which they are doing, and execute these operations at night, which would deny the Russians the ability to use any of their airpower anyway. So the real problem is the minefields. It's not right now the airpower.

Now, having said that, just do a quick math drill here. Ten F-16s are $2 billion, so the Russians have hundreds of fourth- and fifth-generation airframes. So if they're going to try to match the Russians one for one, or even, you know, two-to-one, you're talking about a large number of aircraft. That's going to take years to train the pilots, years to do the maintenance and sustainment, years to generate that degree of financial support to do that. You're talking way more billions of dollars than has already been generated.

So the key thing is to focus on air defense, focus on the blocking-and-tackling sort of offensive combined arms maneuver, which is artillery, as both long-range and short-range artillery, and then get in your engineers and your mine-breaching equipment. That's the kind of stuff they need. That's what they want. That's what they're asking for. When I talk to Zaluzhny, that's what he's asking for, so --

https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...t-staff-brigad/

quote:

Q: OK. Lieutenant General Sims, for you, could you give us your assessment of the reasons for what we're seeing in Ukraine's counteroffensive in terms of their -- like, are there sort of smaller advances and sort of small -- the smaller scale of the operations that we're seeing? How would you explain to people who aren't familiar with the situation? Why is that happening at this point?

And then Pat, if possible, can you just talk about whether the secretary's call with Senator Tuberville? Thanks.

GEN. RYDER: Yeah, Missy, I'll -- so I'll come back after we're done with General Sims's portion and address that. But over to General Sims.

GEN. SIMS: Well, Missy, I think if I could sum it up in a single word, I'd tell you it's because it's really hard. You know, we're talking about, you know, actual human beings that are in the midst of some pretty severe fighting. So if you look at this in this case, you know, we have, you know, men and women who are incorporating new techniques. They're using new equipment and they're doing that all while being shot at and bombed, not to mention the -- the -- and if you've seen in other places, extensive mining that the Russians have put in place. And so where they are gaining hundreds of meters a day, maybe a kilometer a day in some places, they're doing that at great cost in terms of effort.

And so just back to my opening comment there, it's really, really hard. I don't think it's impossible, and I think that's what we're seeing from the Ukrainians, is that they are really making a go of it in great order, really, across the battlefield. It may not be at the speed that we would prefer. You know, if you use an historic example and if you look at this country, with the exception of the Gulf War, where we, you know, had gone pretty fast through that, we had done a bunch of preparation prior to our crossing the berm in the Gulf War, let me take you back to World War II -- I mean, just from the time when we hit the beaches at D-Day, you were looking at two months before the breakout.

So this is hard warfare, it's in really tough terrain, it's under fire, and really, when you consider all of that, it's pretty remarkable.

...

Q: Hi, Sir. Thanks so much for doing this. I wanted to ask you about the counter-offensive and -- since it is going a little slower than some may have liked, it seems like perhaps this might last longer as well. And as we go into the fall, you look at new U.S. equipment that is potentially arriving -- the Abrams, for example, maybe even F-16s. Can you talk at all about what kind of capability those weapons would bring to the counteroffensive and how useful that would be?

GEN. SIMS: Yes, sure, Ma'am. Well, let me start with air. We've said this for a while, you know, this -- the conditions on the environment certainly are changing over time. But the conditions right now for the employment of the F-16s are probably not -- they're probably not ideal. I mean, the Russians still possess some air defense capability. They have air capability. And the number of F-16s that would be provided may not be perfect for what's going on right now. As the future changes, that certainly will dictate how that is employed.

In terms of the Abrams, you know, the Abrams will certainly make a difference on the battlefield. I mean, we know it's an extraordinary tank. And, you know, the training ongoing right now will make them, you know, I would think, extraordinarily good at employing them. I can't tell you whether the offensive would still be going on by then or not, I just know that when the Abrams arrive, they'll be able to make a difference with Ukrainians.

# ? Jul 20, 2023 23:52

Qtotonibudinibudet: Nov 7, 2011; Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

mlmp08 posted:

GEN. MILLEY posted:
So the key thing is to focus on air defense, focus on the blocking-and-tackling sort of offensive combined arms maneuver, which is artillery, as both long-range and short-range artillery, and then get in your engineers and your mine-breaching equipment. That's the kind of stuff they need. That's what they want. That's what they're asking for. When I talk to Zaluzhny, that's what he's asking for, so --

this is america and bah god we will do a football metaphor

# ? Jul 21, 2023 09:32

Dein Specht: Apr 5, 2023

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1682340021397868545

# ? Jul 21, 2023 12:04

PurpleXVI: Oct 30, 2011; Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

Dein Specht posted:

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1682340021397868545

lmao I was just coming here to post this.

Absolutely hilarious that Girkin gets arrested for words, but Prigozhin, his mortal posting enemy, goes free after a literal armed rebellion.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 12:06

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

PurpleXVI posted:

lmao I was just coming here to post this.

Absolutely hilarious that Girkin gets arrested for words, but Prigozhin, his mortal posting enemy, goes free after a literal armed rebellion.

I don't think anyone has heard from Prig in a while..... :tinfoil:

# ? Jul 21, 2023 12:27

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

CommieGIR posted:

I don't think anyone has heard from Prig in a while.....

He's maxin in Belarus saying he'll get back to Ukraine when he feels like it

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-mercenary-chief-prigozhin-seen-video-welcoming-wagner-troops-b-rcna95139

# ? Jul 21, 2023 12:31

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

if they really want him gone for good just give him to the dutch

# ? Jul 21, 2023 12:31

Lord Awkward: Feb 16, 2012

Dein Specht posted:

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1682340021397868545

You could say Girkin is

in a real pickle now

# ? Jul 21, 2023 12:49

Mederlock: Jun 23, 2012; You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it; Grimey Drawer

Maybe he'll finally receive some karma for his role in the MH17 murders

# ? Jul 21, 2023 14:59

Itchy_Grundle: Feb 22, 2003

Jarmak posted:

Edit: that and being dragged by the chute after landing, I heard some horror stories there. It happened to me for a very short distance to no ill effect other than knowing I never want to do that again (like 5-10', it's one of those things where I'm sure it was shorter than it felt).

When I read this I almost brought my hands up to my shoulders without thinking about it. I went to Airborne School in 1997...

# ? Jul 21, 2023 15:39

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

I blew out both knees on landing. My concerns, in order:
Chute, weapon, security, mobility, injuries.

The Chute can and will kill you on the ground, and is the most immediate danger.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 15:46

Soylent Pudding: Jun 22, 2007; We've got people!

bulletsponge13 posted:

The Chute can and will kill you on the ground, and is the most immediate danger.

My girlfriend's dad bought a parachute from a garage sale. He decided to hang out in the driveway deploy it for laughs. Then the wind caught him, dragged him down most of the cul-de-sac, and gave him road rash on like 30% of his body.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 16:02

Defenestrategy: Oct 24, 2010

bulletsponge13 posted:

I blew out both knees on landing. My concerns, in order:
Chute, weapon, security, mobility, injuries.

The Chute can and will kill you on the ground, and is the most immediate danger.

Almost seems as if man where never meant to jump out of airplanes.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 16:27

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

Defenestrategy posted:

Almost seems as if man where never meant to jump out of airplanes.

"3 things fall from the sky- manna, paratroopers, and bird poo poo.
Chickenshit stays on the ground"

I'm sure I hosed it up some, but I recall it from Airborne School.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 16:41

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

It is amazing how fast you learn to pop the Capewell as soon as you touch the ground

# ? Jul 21, 2023 16:43

not caring here: Feb 22, 2012; blazemastah 2 dry 4 u

I thought about airborne school once. Then I was driving a humvee for casualty transport for one of their drop events, and after watching a couple of big dudes practically lawn dart they were coming in so hot and other tiny dudes dance around in the air currents for 15 minutes, I figured that was not for me.

I'll pay the 200 dollars or whatever and go do it civilian side.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 18:07

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

I did it, but that school was the first time I got familiar with the idea of �acceptable casualties�. We started the school with ~200 people in my platoon (yes, 4 squads of 50 was a �platoon�), and between drops, running fallouts, and injuries we ended with a lot less than that.

I blew the drain plugs out of a boot on a hard landing, where the wind shifted after I�d started my slip to try and go into the wind. I ended up running with it instead, and bounced off the ground. Normal impacts are feet/calves/knees/rear end/side (iirc), but I went straight from feet to my side and skipped everything in the middle.

It�s also the only course that the army can�t suck all the fun out of, but damnit they�ll try anyways.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 18:22

The Eyes Have It: Feb 10, 2008; Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

In The Jungle is Neutral the author had to do a jump near the end of things and felt he landed kind of bad but no real harm done. Later I think after the war he read that the report mentioned him with: "Body appeared to land on head, but got up and waved"

# ? Jul 21, 2023 18:23

Deus Ex Macklemore: Jul 2, 2004; Zelensky's Zealots

Soylent Pudding posted:

My girlfriend's dad bought a parachute from a garage sale. He decided to hang out in the driveway deploy it for laughs. Then the wind caught him, dragged him down most of the cul-de-sac, and gave him road rash on like 30% of his body.

Well it made ME laugh, so mission accomplished

# ? Jul 21, 2023 18:38

PurpleXVI: Oct 30, 2011; Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

https://twitter.com/reshetz/status/1682428792298512385?s=20

lmao some people actually like that piece of poo poo? enough to protest for him?

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Jul 21, 2023 19:38

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Dude represents a wing of that ~10% of Russian society that is actually political and ultranationalist.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 19:42

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

I think that's Pavel Gubarev, former self-proclaimed governor of Donetsk (and before that a Nazi and a Natzbol), and apparently currently also arrested. He may have forgotten he is not in Ukraine any more.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 19:49

Itchy_Grundle: Feb 22, 2003

bulletsponge13 posted:

I blew out both knees on landing. My concerns, in order:
Chute, weapon, security, mobility, injuries.

The Chute can and will kill you on the ground, and is the most immediate danger.

Friend of mine got dragged about 50 feet into some brambles. No serious injury but it was loving funny.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 20:16

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001

OddObserver posted:

I think that's Pavel Gubarev, former self-proclaimed governor of Donetsk (and before that a Nazi and a Natzbol)

And a mall santa

# ? Jul 21, 2023 20:24

Computer viking: May 30, 2011; Now with less breakage.

PurpleXVI posted:

lmao some people actually like that piece of poo poo? enough to protest for him?

I kind of get that. He's got a way with words, and a real "for gently caress's sake what are these idiots up to are they even trying to win this war and who do they think they're fooling" energy that's easy to sympathize with. Obviously he's doing it in favor of Russia crushing Ukraine, and he's a murderous terrorist - but if you're a Russian who supports the war in the first place, those may not be deal breakers .

# ? Jul 21, 2023 20:25

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:46

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Flavahbeast posted:

And a mall santa

Well, nothing wrong with that. Affiliating with the "if you vote for Yuschenko there will be... black priests in your church!" party OTOH...

# ? Jul 21, 2023 20:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Ukraine: The Aristoblyats

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