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Adhesive Gamin
Sep 29, 2010

Meatoberfest is in full swing.
We got this patch note in 2018

quote:

Vampiric Presence: The power contribution from the necromancer to the damage portion of this trait has been increased by about 1,200%. The healing-power contribution from the necromancer has been increased by about 560%. The functionality of this trait has been modified and currently increases its effectiveness by 100% when in shroud. This effect now has a 0.5-second cooldown.

when the coefficient went from 0.0025 to 0.033, skyrocketing the trait to something like 200 damage per hit.

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Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
really wish mmos in general, but gw2 in particular took a hint from ff14's book here and just had universal "this skill hits with 100 potency and 1s recast time, that skill hits with 250 potency and 2 bleeds with 3s cast time 10s cooldown" descriptions, where potency is then just multiplied by your stats to get the final numbers

it's already how the game works anyway, but coefficients (potency) are hidden unless you check the wiki, for some reason??

then, no matter what build you have the tooltips are very clearly readable, instead of having to compare 5432 damage autoattack with 16210 damage 3s cast skill or whatever, and afaik tooltip numbers are sometimes inaccurate for some reason too so you can't even rely on that universally

the numbers on tooltips constantly changing when you swap around traits and boons or gear and poo poo ends up being so annoying in the long run, too, because their relationship doesn't change since the coefficients and recast speeds are just dps multipliers

it'd make crunching the approximate numbers in ones head so much easier when trying to build a character, so i really don't understand why gw2 doesn't do it like that when building a character is a big part of the sales pitch

setting up a condi build already does work like that. "this skill gives 2 bleeds, that skill gives 3 bleeds" etc, so i have no idea why power setups have to be stupid with hidden and/or unreadable numbers and poo poo

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011
That guy finally got to Icebrood saga in exploring gw2's content.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ_rcvuMWiQ

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

i still quite like the conjured elementalist weapons even if, I assume, they suck

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

Truga posted:

really wish mmos in general, but gw2 in particular took a hint from ff14's book here and just had universal "this skill hits with 100 potency and 1s recast time, that skill hits with 250 potency and 2 bleeds with 3s cast time 10s cooldown" descriptions, where potency is then just multiplied by your stats to get the final numbers

it's already how the game works anyway, but coefficients (potency) are hidden unless you check the wiki, for some reason??

then, no matter what build you have the tooltips are very clearly readable, instead of having to compare 5432 damage autoattack with 16210 damage 3s cast skill or whatever, and afaik tooltip numbers are sometimes inaccurate for some reason too so you can't even rely on that universally

the numbers on tooltips constantly changing when you swap around traits and boons or gear and poo poo ends up being so annoying in the long run, too, because their relationship doesn't change since the coefficients and recast speeds are just dps multipliers

it'd make crunching the approximate numbers in ones head so much easier when trying to build a character, so i really don't understand why gw2 doesn't do it like that when building a character is a big part of the sales pitch

setting up a condi build already does work like that. "this skill gives 2 bleeds, that skill gives 3 bleeds" etc, so i have no idea why power setups have to be stupid with hidden and/or unreadable numbers and poo poo

I agree so so so much with this post. The potency as a base value to compare against other skills is super important, otherwise you have to do a bunch of nonsense math.

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

Meowywitch posted:

i still quite like the conjured elementalist weapons even if, I assume, they suck

I remember Ice Bow being a mainstay years ago but iirc it got nerfed pretty hard

Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012


I just like pressing buttons haphazardly and seeing pretty princesses. Give me an infantile mode where all damage is normalized to 25k DPS against a backdrop of Michael Bay particle effects irregardless of keypresses.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Guest2553 posted:

I just like pressing buttons haphazardly and seeing pretty princesses. Give me an infantile mode where all damage is normalized to 25k DPS against a backdrop of Michael Bay particle effects irregardless of keypresses.

isn't that just power mechanist

Meskhenet
Apr 26, 2010

Truga posted:

isn't that just power mechanist

yes

Jedah
Sep 1, 2001

YOU CAN NOT BUST THE KRUST

Truga posted:

isn't that just power mechanist

I feel like everyone should try Mechanist. Being inclusive to players is so important, and it's a class that folks of varying skill/ability levels can play, pickup, and quickly enjoy.

As someone who had a very serious injury in the past, and had to undergo physical therapy, I'm thinking of folks who aren't able to perform a lot of actions per minute, maybe they require low APM, maybe they have a disability, arthritis, or multitude of others things, etc.

For this reason it's one of my all-time favorite classes.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011

Meowywitch posted:

i still quite like the conjured elementalist weapons even if, I assume, they suck

Icebow and fiery greatsword used to absolutely melt healthbars and large objects faster than anything else in existence, but that was long ago, the shield still sees a lot of use in pvp for defense and the hammer used to be popular for damage and CC in short bursts once upon a time, I'm pretty sure nobody has equipped the lava axe on elementalist since the game has been released.

Meeko
Sep 15, 2017

That's right! I'm the counting sheep, Meeko. And I'm a proper sheep youkai!

Meowywitch posted:

i still quite like the conjured elementalist weapons even if, I assume, they suck

Earth Shield - has utility in pvp situations. will never, ever make sense in pve.
Lava Axe - fun idea but just utterly, hilariously bad. every single skill it has is just worse than camping fire for any power weapon, and not by a small margin either.
Frost Bow - still a decent burst option, outclassed by other skills these days but it's not unusable.
Lightning Hammer - remains a decent option to push and just whack people with a hammer for a bit. still worse than pretty much any power weapon but it's at least usable.
Fiery Greatsword - has one really good button, two okay buttons, and then the autos are pretty bad but its at least pretty fun.

gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008

:gowron::m10:
Conjures could be so good if they did away with the whole bundle aspect of them. On top of how clunky it is to target ground to activate a different skill bar, and to mentally keep track of how long you have to pick up an object so as not to waste a cooldown, it's just terrible design that your rotation is vulnerable to another player pressing F at the wrong time.

They've overhauled other clunky profession mechanics before, sometimes multiple times, yet they've never changed conjures beyond tweaking the individual kits.

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012

Conjures should just be kits, imo.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

Jedah posted:

I feel like everyone should try Mechanist. Being inclusive to players is so important, and it's a class that folks of varying skill/ability levels can play, pickup, and quickly enjoy.

As someone who had a very serious injury in the past, and had to undergo physical therapy, I'm thinking of folks who aren't able to perform a lot of actions per minute, maybe they require low APM, maybe they have a disability, arthritis, or multitude of others things, etc.

For this reason it's one of my all-time favorite classes.

And being really cool is just just the cherry on top.

Speaking of being cool (but not being good) I haven't been paying attention for the last year or so did Bladesworn ever get any better

Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Jul 20, 2023

Actuarial Fables
Jul 29, 2014

Taco Defender
They added ranged attacks to the gunblade so you're not so entirely locked into melee.

It's good.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012

Uh... Kupo?

The worst part about the gunblade is that you cant do dressup with it. This is the same reason flamethrower engineer sucks

Jedah
Sep 1, 2001

YOU CAN NOT BUST THE KRUST

Blockhouse posted:


Speaking of being cool (but not being good) I haven't been paying attention for the last year or so did Bladesworn ever get any better

Yup, Bladesworn is super strong. I'm terrible at it and play Spellbreaker instead, but it's still good.

Check out Lord Hizen, a ridiculously good Bladesworn player, and an expert at breaking the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzYb_Dsc58M&t=73s

Humerus
Jul 7, 2009

Rule of acquisition #111:
Treat people in your debt like family...exploit them.


Info about Relics is out (kind of)

Basically what I expected, but the number of relics seems kind of low, and not just giving everyone a straight up selection of any "core" relic seems like a mistake too. Like for my dps set I use Runes of Nightmare, am I going to have to spend more dungeon currency for a Relic of Nightmare? (Probably)

Legendary Relic is coming with an update after launch, and it says every legendary rune you have will contribute to a legendary Relic, with more runes being more progress. I feel like if someone has all 7 they should just get the relic too but what do I know.

gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008

:gowron::m10:
Can they do away with the waterbreather slot while they're at it? There's literally no reason it should be an actual piece of equipment and not just a skin.

SlothBear
Jan 25, 2009

Humerus posted:

Info about Relics is out (kind of)

Basically what I expected, but the number of relics seems kind of low, and not just giving everyone a straight up selection of any "core" relic seems like a mistake too. Like for my dps set I use Runes of Nightmare, am I going to have to spend more dungeon currency for a Relic of Nightmare? (Probably)

Legendary Relic is coming with an update after launch, and it says every legendary rune you have will contribute to a legendary Relic, with more runes being more progress. I feel like if someone has all 7 they should just get the relic too but what do I know.

Hmmm 30 does seem low given that by my count there are 99 superior rune sets in game currently. Now given a lot of those have fairly uninspired six piece bonuses that won't really be missed, many are just worse versions of other effects, and some of them can probably go for balance reasons (I wouldn't be surprised to never see a scholar relic) but there are definitely more than 30 good choices there that I was looking forward to being able to use free of stat blocks. Hrmm.

Still good news on the legendary runes, feel better about finishing them now.

ptroll
Sep 8, 2011

I'm also curious what they'll do with the overlapping runes-- plenty of sets have identical stats bonuses on the first five pieces, and then a separate bonus on the sixth. Lots of them also don't have a stat bonus on the sixth piece at all, so presumably they'll add something to those?

Humerus posted:

Legendary Relic is coming with an update after launch, and it says every legendary rune you have will contribute to a legendary Relic, with more runes being more progress. I feel like if someone has all 7 they should just get the relic too but what do I know.

I can only assume that each rune is 1/7th progress, but I also have a feeling relics are intended to be one of the big incentives in this expansion, kind of like how jade bot modules are positioned (even though there's like, two actually useful modules), so you might still have to work for it.

Actuarial Fables
Jul 29, 2014

Taco Defender
With it just being a single item instead of 7 runes/8 sigils, I'd imagine that the crafting cost will be more like a trinket than an upgrade component. I doubt that they'd give everything you need to make it just for having all 7 runes, probably instead they'll give out account-bound components required to make it so you don't need as much stuff (but will probably still have to do stuff in the expac and stimulate the economy to finish it).

Also, it won't be out until 2024. Hopefully they tell us what we'll need before then so we can start working on it.

Humerus
Jul 7, 2009

Rule of acquisition #111:
Treat people in your debt like family...exploit them.


Maybe you'll get the precursor for free or the Gift of Relics or something similar.

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:
Boy oh boy I love passives that trigger on using your elite skill

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

Meeko posted:

Earth Shield - has utility in pvp situations. will never, ever make sense in pve.
Lava Axe - fun idea but just utterly, hilariously bad. every single skill it has is just worse than camping fire for any power weapon, and not by a small margin either.
Frost Bow - still a decent burst option, outclassed by other skills these days but it's not unusable.
Lightning Hammer - remains a decent option to push and just whack people with a hammer for a bit. still worse than pretty much any power weapon but it's at least usable.
Fiery Greatsword - has one really good button, two okay buttons, and then the autos are pretty bad but its at least pretty fun.

I remember there used to be one whole skill dedicated to the conjured elemental weapons: doubling the duration. thats it

I don't think it's in the game anymore

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011
After using an elite skill, shield yourself with a projectile-reflecting barrier while summoning a wave that pulls enemies toward you.

Think you could give a bit more details in the tooltips anet? duration of the barrier? radius of the pull?

Meskhenet
Apr 26, 2010

Hmm, that doesnt explain if its worth making the last 5 Leggy runes.

Progress towards, unless that poo poo is time gated people are going to have it crafted super soon.

Or maybe there is goingot be some serious bullshit involved in it.


thats stupid compensation i think

ComradeBigT
Sep 9, 2014

Meskhenet posted:

Hmm, that doesnt explain if its worth making the last 5 Leggy runes.

Progress towards, unless that poo poo is time gated people are going to have it crafted super soon.

Or maybe there is goingot be some serious bullshit involved in it.


thats stupid compensation i think

It's a bit disappointing that the big 'detail' post about the system that was gonna address people's concerns about the legendary runes basically answered none of the big questions other then confirming there would be a legendary relic at some point. I don't even necessarily mind that it isnt going to just be a free exchange from Legendary rune to relic, but having info like "significant progress" means basically nothing without extra info. Is it gonna get rid of the material sink but still have some lore related collections or what?
And while the extra general details about the system is nice, but it's a bit frustrating to be told about another cool new thing that is effectively going to only be partially complete with the actual expansion release and 'finished' next year.

I realize there are a whole number of valid reasons to split content up and spread out when it's all released, but it would be nice to focus on revealing stuff that'll be fully completed once it comes out instead of one of every few things actually happening next year.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011
Predicting there will be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth when the relics first come out because people need to log onto every single character and hope one of the freebies they hand out is actually something close to what they used to have in their build and they don't have to pay first-day market prices for the "good" relics like old scholar or old monk that they used to have by default already and then buy one for each and every character, the legendary rune people will be extra upset because they already paid for a feature they are ripping off those and won't get back for half a year.

If the end result is people use more than 5 total rune sets in pve and the relics are largely wacky situational adjustments to your kit instead of "number go up by x%", that'll probably be a positive, though I would of preferred if they stuck to accountwide unlocks and made runes and infusions and cosmetic infusions their own slots instead of being slotted into armor.

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

i think in practice neo rune mixing will mostly be used for making minute adjustments on things that can be kinda boolean like concentration, expertise, and precision (you either have enough for your spec/loadout or don't) and that's fine

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:
Runes are pointless as raw stat sticks and the points should be folded into armor and/or trinkets

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011
When returned after a long break I enjoyed the new fractals I came back to like twilight oasis and sunqua and shattered CM, if I came back and silent surf CM was the latest fractal after 3 years of nothing I probably would of written off doing many fractals.

It is blatantly a strike boss that got cancelled for gyala when they pulled a icebrood champions to working on the new expansion that they forgot to fully convert into a fractal, with mistlock not working and not being able to revive allies in the fight, I could even forgive the janky grapple and bugs like the boss stealing regen at 66% and getting in a 66% phase loop or eyes desync'd and killing you after they disappear but the whole numbers into eyes mechanic is just plain tedious because you literally just do nothing until it's your turn to play the game again and it happens so frequently, they even removed the ability to dodge his attack which was the only thing to keep you occupied!

Plus I lost count at how many times random's would get impatient and turn around early to die instantly to eyes or fail the grapple or get lazy about being in the boon steal circles.

I would of much preferred a twilight oasis CM or solid ocean rework +CM.

Meeko
Sep 15, 2017

That's right! I'm the counting sheep, Meeko. And I'm a proper sheep youkai!

gandlethorpe posted:

Conjures could be so good if they did away with the whole bundle aspect of them. On top of how clunky it is to target ground to activate a different skill bar, and to mentally keep track of how long you have to pick up an object so as not to waste a cooldown, it's just terrible design that your rotation is vulnerable to another player pressing F at the wrong time.

They've overhauled other clunky profession mechanics before, sometimes multiple times, yet they've never changed conjures beyond tweaking the individual kits.

Conjures are in a really weird place where they're predominately used by people who highly value giving their friend a lightining hammer or frost bow or flaming greatsword, and a rework to make them better to use/more viable would by, necessity, ruin them for that purpose.

this is by no means a small demographic - look at how we got siege turtle just for co-op buddy mischief. combined with how conjures have never been close to mandatory (ignoring the turbo lovely balance that was launch gw2), plus by necessity needing to gut FGS's cooldowns or strength if it was turned into a kit and i can see why anet has never bothered reworking them into kits or something.

Actuarial Fables
Jul 29, 2014

Taco Defender

Ra Ra Rasputin posted:

they even removed the ability to dodge his attack which was the only thing to keep you occupied!

This is the one change that makes absolutely no sense to me. I could understand if they didn't want people to ignore the mechanic and stay stacked somehow, but I don't think it was possible to avoid all six just by dodging or stacking aegis. The fact that it takes a huge chunk of your health also means that you're either burning your heal skill every time that comes up, or extremely reliant on having a healer in the group.

I thought the ability to tank the boss was pretty neat, but it seems to also focus on pets and minions so if someone accidentally drops an axe on the boss it can be a pain to actually get them to move out of it if there's a flesh golem smacking away.

Sunqua has some Forced Damage with the big circles that explode on your friends, but the damage done (assuming no one is touching circles) is significantly more manageable and it also only takes two seconds for the circles to explode and then you're back into the fight, instead of waiting for the boss to charge up, complete 6 attacks, and then the eye attack.

Jedah
Sep 1, 2001

YOU CAN NOT BUST THE KRUST
Just saw this and I might have to try Catalyst now. I know basically nothing about Elementalist, but this looks pretty fool proof for a beginner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jGrKrEedag

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
Lol started the grind for a skyscale, saw step two, decided to wait a month. gently caress that.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
the grind for skyscale is actually a non-issue with return to LWS4, since the biggest bottleneck is 250 of each map currency and wouldn't you know, those achievements give you 250 of each map currency

unless you never want to do lws4 again in which case :rip:

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
Eh, you have to collect drat near 60 eggs around the world which is a huge turn off. That and the food as well. Gw2 wiki says the minimum time to grind one out is three days 8 hours which is pretty steep for something that will be available without much effort in a few weeks. :v:

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Mr. Neutron
Sep 15, 2012

~I'M THE BEST~
The currencies aren't a problem, even if you don't like the maps you can trade ice shards from IBS for them. The first 3 collections where you do nothing but press F endlessly are indeed the worst.

Glad they finally realized their error though and are giving the skyscale to everybody in the expansion. Should've done that in EoD (which would have made their jab at WoW actually make sense and be funny instead of cringe) but eh its :anet:

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