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VideoGameVet posted:The regulatory process isn’t the issue. There isn't one issue. Are you going to argue that the government should not be doing the things I listed?
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Jul 21, 2023 03:51
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I ultimately need nuclear sceptics to sit here and confirm that $15B and 11 years is unsuitable for 1.1 GW baseload decarbonized power generation per reactor, because if you think this is expensive I have some extremely bad news for you about the cost constraints and longevity of that scale of battery-only baseload and peak shifting. Meanwhile, 
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Jul 21, 2023 04:04
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A solid solution for providing a minority of baseload under cheap renewables is right there on the table. I regularly point out that our energy future should be dominated by renewables and battery storage, just not as a monoculture. You need ~15% of your baseload to come from other sources to avoid overbuilding battery infrastructure by whole integer factors. It's right there, and it can be the 15% of our energy mix that makes renewables and super duper dispatchable battery kick a lot of rear end. C'mon. Do it. We need this by 2040-2050 if we're going to meet the drop dead dates for sequestration at great scale.
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Jul 21, 2023 04:11
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VideoGameVet posted:Toyota has made this announcement on an annual basis for about 5 years. Source?
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Jul 21, 2023 05:17
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Potato Salad posted:Which elements of what you cited--which is indeed accurate--would you contest do not get addressed by what Phanatic mentions that are also specifically germane to nuclear industry? My suggestion originally was to have the Navy do it, but I understand that they use a different technology. Probabily need a federal agency running the process with standardized design. Maybe what France pulled off (I believe they used a US design). Or some other way to get it away from "our profits are guaranteed no matter how badly we gently caress up" utility economic model.
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Jul 21, 2023 05:41
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Source? 2021: https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyota-battery-bev-hev-solid-state-future-investment/ 2017: https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/25/t...oKoA7nGRr-JGHX7 2017: https://www.extremetech.com/cars/253065-toyota-wants-leapfrog-competitors-new-solid-state-lithium-ion-battery-design
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Jul 21, 2023 05:45
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I don't think it's worth getting lost in the weeds examining the differences between navy vessel reactors and commercial power reactors, when someone starts talking about the navy it's meant more to illustrate how silly it is to argue that we can't build nuclear power plants. We can build them, we just don't want to apparently If we really cared about combating climate change we'd declare it a threat to national security and start doling out commercial nuclear power contracts to the MIC. We've done the first part several dozen times at least but for some reason we just aren't doing anything about it.
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Jul 21, 2023 06:39
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QuarkJets posted:If we really cared about combating climate change we'd declare it a threat to national security and start doling out commercial nuclear power contracts to the MIC. We've done the first part several dozen times at least but for some reason we just aren't doing anything about it. From what I understand, mass nuclear buildup is not the only way forward to stem the climate apocalypse. And it also seems that mass nuclear buildup is socially, politically and financially unacceptable right now. Is that considered nuclear skepticism? Dante80 fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 10:05
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Dante80 posted:From what I understand, mass nuclear buildup is not the only way forward to stem the climate apocalypse. What alternatives are there?
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Jul 21, 2023 11:46
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Gort posted:What alternatives are there? More of literally everything else that can help and is not politically, socially and financially unacceptable right now. From more mass renewables to small/big hydro to EGS to grid to storage to capture to keeping and mildly expanding the nuclear you have to...everything else. I stopped crying over mass nuclear personally when I realized that a> it's not happening anyway and b> there are still a lot of fish to fry, as well as many degrees to environmental pain coming down the line. It is simply UNHEALTHY for me to fixate on it any longer, and it also saps my energy that should be spent promoting other stuff to stem the climate apocalypse. Dante80 fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Jul 21, 2023 |
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Jul 21, 2023 12:11
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would love to know where all the new hydro capacity that gets bandied about is going to come from
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Jul 21, 2023 12:41
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mediaphage posted:would love to know where all the new hydro capacity that gets bandied about is going to come from I also listened to a couple of incredible podcasts on that subject recently, one for small modular hydro, and one for hydro in general! How to make small hydro more like solar What's going on with hydropower? anyways, I'm out.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:53
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Dante80 posted:More of literally everything else that can help and is not politically, socially and financially unacceptable right now. From more mass renewables to small/big hydro to EGS to grid to storage to capture to keeping and mildly expanding the nuclear you have to...everything else. A lot of the things on your list require technologies we don't have yet, and may never have. It feels a lot like throwing your hands up and going, "Science will save us!" as a replacement for using a tool we know works.
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Jul 21, 2023 12:58
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Phanatic posted:There are things that will help and things that are just changes that don't address the underlying problems. "Have the Navy do program management for reactors that are almost entirely unlike the reactors it is familiar with and which will operate in an entirely different regulatory environment with entirely different requirements and processes" is not something that is likely to help. These are the kind of things that will attract talent to the industry. And with talent you won’t have a bozo explosion of construction bs like evidenced earlier. You solve the bozo problem by finding someone else, not catering to bozos.
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Jul 21, 2023 14:37
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Dante80 posted:More of literally everything else that can help and is not politically, socially and financially unacceptable right now. From more mass renewables to small/big hydro to EGS to grid to storage to capture to keeping and mildly expanding the nuclear you have to...everything else. This is a form of climate denialism because it's hanging the solutions to our war on carbon on nonexistent technologies that may not ever exist. We have as few as 17 years and as many as 27 years remaining to get not only to zero carbon baseload, but expanded surplus capacity to bring sequestration technologies online, per the IPCC. Sorry, but we are up against the wall.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:03
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Dante80 posted:More of literally everything else that can help and is not politically, socially and financially unacceptable right now. From more mass renewables to small/big hydro to EGS to grid to storage to capture to keeping and mildly expanding the nuclear you have to...everything else. And how does making GBS threads on nuclear power promote the construction of more renewables and grid-scale storage? Did you really just suggest carbon capture as a reason to not build nuclear power? The gently caress? 
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Jul 21, 2023 15:31
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They suggested it as something the public might find more palatable than nuclear. We already did hydro, there's no good spots left for it.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:40
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Love to power carbon capture from magic in-lieu of nuclear. We need a full court press on solar and nuclear and microgrid storage.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:43
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Harold Fjord posted:They suggested it as something the public might find more palatable than nuclear. There's 90.000 dams, only 3% generate power.
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Jul 21, 2023 15:44
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Are you just assuming every drat dam can be used for power generation?
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Jul 21, 2023 15:47
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There are no water bodies left available for high power reliable generation. You can throw some turbines on many of the water control damns, but you end up in the same position as solar where you're getting power when you're getting power, and it has to be stored to be useful, since you can't interrupt the water control functions. There aren't even many good places left to build new dams if we were to allow the massive ecological devastation of flooding thousands of acres.
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Jul 21, 2023 16:01
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Are you just assuming every drat dam can be used for power generation? it is worth exploring, though it's not a total solution of course. if you read the link provided, you'll see the EIA explicitly says that not all nonpowered dams can be converted to produce electricity. it also says that those that can be converted can provide an additional estimated 12k MW of generation capacity, which is about an extra percent. not a lot but not nothing either
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Jul 21, 2023 16:02
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mediaphage posted:it is worth exploring, though it's not a total solution of course. if you read the link provided, you'll see the EIA explicitly says that not all nonpowered dams can be converted to produce electricity. it also says that those that can be converted can provide an additional estimated 12k MW of generation capacity, which is about an extra percent. not a lot but not nothing either Right but the cost to pursue those sources seems kinda high for very little gain. It would likely be better to apply that money for something that may actually be worth it. You know... Like nuclear.
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Jul 21, 2023 16:06
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Right but the cost to pursue those sources seems kinda high for very little gain. It would likely be better to apply that money for something that may actually be worth it. You know... Like nuclear. yes thanks i've had that discussion repeatedly just pointing out when others come up with bad conclusions anyway all of these sources should be pursued imo
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Jul 21, 2023 16:08
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Harold Fjord posted:They suggested it as something the public might find more palatable than nuclear. I think that's fairly true with regards to megaprojects, particularly in the United States, but there's certainly some real opportunity available in the mini- and micro-hydro market. There are a ton of already built small- and medium-sized concrete dams that don't have any power generation equipment at all, or have really old and inefficient systems. A lot of the dams were built with agriculture and water-control in mind, rather than power generation. If they can be affordably retrofitted with new systems then it can be something of an easy win. The same can be said for installing micro-hydro systems along waterways that can extract power in a minimally invasive way. This can be in the form of sea snakes or waterwheels or microturbines. They won't be the new Grand Coulee Dam, but they can be placed all over the place without necessarily attracting a lot of attention. In the podcast, the idea being presented is essentially to drop pre-fabricated turbine cubes along the sides of controlled waterways like water treatment plants or municipal canals, cap it all with solar as possible, and connect to the power infrastructure that already exists in these industrial areas. It's a concept that taps into the idea that the best way to avoid political opposition is to ensure that projects are as unobtrusive as possible. Without a big construction site, fenced off field array, concrete cooling tower, etc., for the media to showcase, the public just can't maintain enough attention on it to feel disrupted by it. The fossil fuel industry has been doing this sort of thing forever, where they can get away with whatever they want to so long as they remain out of sight and out of mind.
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Jul 21, 2023 16:16
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Harold Fjord posted:They suggested it as something the public might find more palatable than nuclear. Let's be clear, the same public that elected Dhonald Jahn Trump will absolutely find CCS palatable. Which is a yuge, yuuuuuuuge problem.
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Jul 21, 2023 17:20
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mediaphage posted:12k MW 
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Jul 21, 2023 17:21
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mediaphage posted:it also says that those that can be converted can provide an additional estimated 12k MW of generation capacity Yeah, and one ready, real-world, recent, domestic alternative is: Potato Salad posted:$15B and 11 years for 1.1 GW baseload decarbonized power generation
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Jul 21, 2023 17:27
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Hey, 12,000,000 kilowatts is equivalent to several nuclear power plants.
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Jul 21, 2023 17:33
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ffs don’t @ me like i’m against nukes
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Jul 21, 2023 17:56
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Dante80 posted:I also listened to a couple of incredible podcasts on that subject recently, one for small modular hydro, and one for hydro in general! Volts is a really good listen overall, would recommend. I listen most weeks on a long drive I have to do and they usually are interesting and wonky. Not wading into nuke chat though, y'all have fun
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Jul 21, 2023 18:06
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Edit: Nevermind .
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Jul 21, 2023 18:59
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tidal power is cool but also presently absurdly expensive, because the ocean hates man and all his works; also I guess there's the potentially massive ecological problems the geothermal stuff is genuinely promising for base load in a lot of areas tbh, I'd love to know more about the particular geography it opens up
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Jul 21, 2023 19:01
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Google Jeb Bush posted:the geothermal stuff is genuinely promising for base load in a lot of areas tbh, I'd love to know more about the particular geography it opens up A neat point I learned about EGS is that apparently some types of them can produce and maintain their own reservoirs, therefore you can build them almost anywhere for baseload. Also, you can leverage the folks that are already drilling and fracking for fossil fuels and give them thus a credible way to transition into renewables.
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Jul 21, 2023 19:13
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Ah...and by coincidence, this just came out a couple of hours ago. Pretty neat as a solitary example (one of many in the line). Enhanced geothermal power is finally a reality
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Jul 21, 2023 19:25
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Dante80 posted:Ah...and by coincidence, this just came out a couple of hours ago. Pretty neat as a solitary example (one of many in the line). As much as I was hoping the microwave drilling would work it's cool to see something actually working.
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Jul 21, 2023 20:05
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VideoGameVet posted:As much as I was hoping the microwave drilling would work it's cool to see something actually working. tl;dr it for me who don't want to listen to any pods. From what I could read in the text I saw nothing that shot down millimeter wave drilling? Only that it beat it to 1st place.
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Jul 21, 2023 20:09
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VideoGameVet posted:As much as I was hoping the microwave drilling would work it's cool to see something actually working. Did they use the MMW drilling, or something more conventional? (Sorry, I hate podcasts, I’ll read a transcript all day long but I can read way faster than I can listen and as a member of the MTV generation I have the attention span of a gnat.)
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Jul 21, 2023 21:03
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Phanatic posted:Did they use the MMW drilling, or something more conventional? Conventional. They didn’t say anything about the microwave stuff. I haven’t heard much recently either. But it sounded so more efficient.
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Jul 21, 2023 21:52
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While I hope they prove out and deliver on their potential, I'm not expecting any reporting to talk much about Quaise until there's actually something to report other than "they raised more money and are still working on stuff". Fervo is using existing technology and techniques, of course they're moving faster. Hopefully they do better wrt environmental impact than natural gas fracking has.
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Jul 21, 2023 23:14
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