Based Wage Making: Money Sitting as a Service

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Based Wage Making: Money Sitting as a Service

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Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

The actual will be being done by some nightmare serco/McKinsey/tcs joint venture and this person is just there to manage outsource agreements and take the blame if it goes wrong.

Yeah, it's almost always this. When you hire so far below the competency level required for a position you are basically hiring vendor management. After a few years one of the vendors will pick this person up as a pre sales engineer and double their pay (well, probably not double in the UK, but that would be how it works in the US).

# ? Jul 21, 2023 15:21

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 22:55

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

bob dobbs is dead posted:

you can get 5-15% paycuts, but at 60% paycut you're gonna get some sucking of teeth

also the thing is that when you're looking at a significant salary bump, much of your existing salary goes to fixed costs (rent, car, etc), so if you double your salary you are like tripling or quadrupling your disposable income (at least, until you start upgrading all those fixed costs). so it gets real, real hard to look at a big salary bump and go nah

plus there are professions where being a government employee is a lot lower stress and better work hours but IT doesn't strike me as one of them

# ? Jul 21, 2023 15:39

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Yeah, if you can avoid (too much) lifestyle creep, you're gonna come out way ahead, often even if you have to deal with a high COL area.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 17:23

canyoneer: Sep 13, 2005; I only have canyoneyes for you

Trimson Grondag 3 posted:

The actual will be being done by some nightmare serco/McKinsey/tcs joint venture and this person is just there to manage outsource agreements and take the blame if it goes wrong.

Perhaps the treasury will also save some money, since the vendor ~~bribes~~ gifts to the £50k/yr director can be a bus pass or Starbucks gift card rather than lavish vacations or box seats to sporting events.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 17:42

Ham Equity: Apr 16, 2013; The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.; Grimey Drawer

Cyrano4747 posted:

This is pretty much government_IT.txt. Long story short, a lot of governments have rules governing what a job pays based on what level the job is, and they very often don't recognize that if you want top talent in areas with a lot of private demand you need to pay commensurately with what people could get in the private sector. Often it's not TOO bad a gap and people are willing to sacrifice a little bit of annual income in exchange for really good benefits, but anything computer touching in particular is notorious for exactly what you're describing.

To give some concrete examples, here are all the US federal gov't pay scales and the locality adjustments. They are at least aware that it's cheaper to live in Iowa than DC, and so adjust pay based on local COL

Usually I use DC's scale for this conversation, but since Seattle's is identical and it drives home the point a bit more, we'll use that:

I'll just skip the part where I try to figure out what the equivalent GS rating for a basic coder at Google would be and point out that the whole thing caps out for a GS-15 at $183k. Which yeah, that's a lot. That's also senior executive grade. We're not talking actual bureau directors, but we ARE talking Associate Directors, maybe department/division heads. PMPs and MBAs are a dime a dozen at that level. So figure a very senior project manager, maybe even one of the small fish VPs at a big tech company.

And I suspect those people at Microsoft/Amazon (also in Seattle) get paid more than $183k/yr.

Now the flip side is that 183k is absolutely money where you are comfortable to say the least, and that's coming with a federal pension and some really good health benefits. So you absolutely find the sort of people who don't really think they need to be making seven figures a year and are happy to have a poo poo ton of job security, or they've got other reasons for wanting to work for the feds (patriotism/sense of public service, they've been in federal service for a long time for whatever reason and kept getting promoted, so they're waiting for retirement age before they move into private sector work, etc). Still, with IT specifically it means that your middle-tier of computer touchers who probably aren't in that situation also aren't getting paid anything like competitively.

At the point I took my current job in Seattle, I was looking specifically for public-sector work, and was wildly underpaid. The federal jobs I was qualified for, the pay was a small raise or comparable to what I was getting (~$50k-$60k, low-level sysadmin work). I wound up passing on a union desktop support role offering $90k in favor of a low-level sysadmin role paying just south of $100k. These were both jobs in the public sector--government jobs, not contractor--just not working for the feds. The union job would have likely involved me working for cops some, so that was a good incentive to not take it.

I don't understand how the feds get anyone out here, honestly. The pay they offer for the qualifications they require is bonkers. I guess they fish people out willing to commute in from Bellingham or something.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 17:49

Mantle: May 15, 2004

I was recently talking to a computer toucher in a public insurer and I asked him about what was great about working there and he kept going back to how the best thing was the job security, nothing to do with the actual work at all.

There are some people out there that are so risk adverse that security is worth any amount of downside in the actual day to day duties.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 18:56

KingSlime: Mar 20, 2007; Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!

I mean I'm on my third lay off (yay tech) in six years lol, big private sector salaries are nice but finding a new job every few years due to absolutely no fault of your own sucks asssss

I get it. I'll keep scrapping by in private jobs for now though as I'm not too risk adverse yet and always assume I can get laid off at any time so I'm prepped but the appeal of stability is real

# ? Jul 21, 2023 19:41

Evil SpongeBob: Dec 1, 2005; Not the other one, couldn't stand the other one. Nope nope nope. Here, enjoy this bird.

If you are considering fed govt, they are rolling out cyber pay. It won't pay what private sector pays, but there is the job security.

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/pay/2023/02/opms-special-salary-rate-for-federal-it-employees-narrows-gap-with-private-sector-pay/?readmore=1

# ? Jul 21, 2023 19:42

KingSlime: Mar 20, 2007; Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!

Nice, thanks for the deets! I'm definitely open to fed jobs especially because I know some folks who are double dipping a bit while on fed payroll so I'll definitely do some research there! :getin:

I'm also going to look into some certs as per a recruiter friend, but that's a discussion I can take to the corporate thread. I have tech mgmt experience but so does nearly everyone else who just lost their job over the last few months. I need to carve out an edge while I still got time at my spiraling role. loving lay offs man

# ? Jul 21, 2023 19:46

Pham Nuwen: Oct 30, 2010

Cyrano4747 posted:

This is pretty much government_IT.txt. Long story short, a lot of governments have rules governing what a job pays based on what level the job is, and they very often don't recognize that if you want top talent in areas with a lot of private demand you need to pay commensurately with what people could get in the private sector. Often it's not TOO bad a gap and people are willing to sacrifice a little bit of annual income in exchange for really good benefits, but anything computer touching in particular is notorious for exactly what you're describing.

To give some concrete examples, here are all the US federal gov't pay scales and the locality adjustments. They are at least aware that it's cheaper to live in Iowa than DC, and so adjust pay based on local COL

Usually I use DC's scale for this conversation, but since Seattle's is identical and it drives home the point a bit more, we'll use that:

I'll just skip the part where I try to figure out what the equivalent GS rating for a basic coder at Google would be and point out that the whole thing caps out for a GS-15 at $183k. Which yeah, that's a lot. That's also senior executive grade. We're not talking actual bureau directors, but we ARE talking Associate Directors, maybe department/division heads. PMPs and MBAs are a dime a dozen at that level. So figure a very senior project manager, maybe even one of the small fish VPs at a big tech company.

And I suspect those people at Microsoft/Amazon (also in Seattle) get paid more than $183k/yr.

Now the flip side is that 183k is absolutely money where you are comfortable to say the least, and that's coming with a federal pension and some really good health benefits. So you absolutely find the sort of people who don't really think they need to be making seven figures a year and are happy to have a poo poo ton of job security, or they've got other reasons for wanting to work for the feds (patriotism/sense of public service, they've been in federal service for a long time for whatever reason and kept getting promoted, so they're waiting for retirement age before they move into private sector work, etc). Still, with IT specifically it means that your middle-tier of computer touchers who probably aren't in that situation also aren't getting paid anything like competitively.

Lord knows I can complain about the DOE National Labs but at least they were able to make an attempt at retaining computer touchers, especially in the SF area. Computer people had the highest pay bands. Another nice thing was that they'd put out yearly charts showing the bands for your level, with anonymous dots for each individual in your org and your dot labeled, so you could tell where you fell against all your peers -- sure it's not full transparency, but you could tell that 70% of your colleagues made more than you and take relevant action.

We did still lose a lot of people to Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 20:11

A Bad King: Jul 17, 2009; Suppose the oil man,
He comes to town.
And you don't lay money down.

Yet Mr. King,
He killed the thread
The other day.
Well I wonder.
Who's gonna go to Hell?

It is the year 2030. All jobs are fed cyber jobs. Their cyber union, the White Hat Social Club. Everyone does cyber security during the day, hunting for scraps of forbidden lore on the new net at night. This is the story of one black hat. The last black hat:

Hackers: SystemD

# ? Jul 21, 2023 20:18

Ham Equity: Apr 16, 2013; The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.; Grimey Drawer

Mantle posted:

I was recently talking to a computer toucher in a public insurer and I asked him about what was great about working there and he kept going back to how the best thing was the job security, nothing to do with the actual work at all.

There are some people out there that are so risk adverse that security is worth any amount of downside in the actual day to day duties.

I don't dearly love the work I do or anything, but I'm, like, 40. I don't really care if I'm working with any sort of bleeding edge technology (I'm not). I don't have to track billables, my pay is good enough, I work for an institution that's relatively altruistic, I get a bunch of PTO (for the US), don't have to work a ton outside of my regular 40-hour week, and I get along with the people on my team and my boss. It's fine, it'll pay the bills until I retire, and I don't have to work all that hard. As long as I get "satisfactory" on my reviews, which is basically a rubber stamp, I'll keep getting CoL raises until I retire (4% this year).
Could I make significantly more money if I wanted to hustle? Yeah, absolutely, but goddamn, why the gently caress would I want to do that? It might be bad with money, but it feels pretty good with life.

EDIT: Also, godwilling I'll never have to talk to another recruiter or write another cover letter again.

Ham Equity fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jul 21, 2023

# ? Jul 21, 2023 20:20

Electrical Fire: Mar 29, 2010

A Bad King posted:

It is the year 2030. All jobs are fed cyber jobs. Their cyber union, the White Hat Social Club. Everyone does cyber security during the day, hunting for scraps of forbidden lore on the new net at night. This is the story of one black hat. The last black hat:

Hackers: SystemD

Page Number posted:

1337

Nice.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 20:26

carrionman: Oct 30, 2010

I moved from Gov to private about 6 years ago. Took a 20% pay cut but I also went from averaging 60 hours a week to a union set 34 hour max week.

For about the first three months I'd come home and just kind of sit around wondering what to do with myself

# ? Jul 21, 2023 21:45

mrmcd: Feb 22, 2003; Pictured: The only good cop (a fictional one).

The real secret is that getting a FAANG/MANGA big tech job is way way harder than actually working a big tech job.

# ? Jul 21, 2023 23:14

The junk collector: Aug 10, 2005; Hey do you want that motherboard?

Cyrano4747 posted:

This is pretty much government_IT.txt. Long story short, a lot of governments have rules governing what a job pays based on what level the job is, and they very often don't recognize that if you want top talent in areas with a lot of private demand you need to pay commensurately with what people could get in the private sector. Often it's not TOO bad a gap and people are willing to sacrifice a little bit of annual income in exchange for really good benefits, but anything computer touching in particular is notorious for exactly what you're describing.

To give some concrete examples, here are all the US federal gov't pay scales and the locality adjustments. They are at least aware that it's cheaper to live in Iowa than DC, and so adjust pay based on local COL

Usually I use DC's scale for this conversation, but since Seattle's is identical and it drives home the point a bit more, we'll use that:

I'll just skip the part where I try to figure out what the equivalent GS rating for a basic coder at Google would be and point out that the whole thing caps out for a GS-15 at $183k. Which yeah, that's a lot. That's also senior executive grade. We're not talking actual bureau directors, but we ARE talking Associate Directors, maybe department/division heads. PMPs and MBAs are a dime a dozen at that level. So figure a very senior project manager, maybe even one of the small fish VPs at a big tech company.

And I suspect those people at Microsoft/Amazon (also in Seattle) get paid more than $183k/yr.

Now the flip side is that 183k is absolutely money where you are comfortable to say the least, and that's coming with a federal pension and some really good health benefits. So you absolutely find the sort of people who don't really think they need to be making seven figures a year and are happy to have a poo poo ton of job security, or they've got other reasons for wanting to work for the feds (patriotism/sense of public service, they've been in federal service for a long time for whatever reason and kept getting promoted, so they're waiting for retirement age before they move into private sector work, etc). Still, with IT specifically it means that your middle-tier of computer touchers who probably aren't in that situation also aren't getting paid anything like competitively.

By my experience, this sort of position would typically be a GS-14 in the US which does pay roughly half what I would expect someone to make in industry at that level. I know you know government but for other people, if you sign on these days you get a small defined pension (like 1% of your highest salary * the number of years employed by gov) plus a 401k equivalent. The vacation package is about twice what you get in days off in industry + separate sick days on top and a very good health plan. Most engineers and computer touchers in the government wind up in the GS-12 to 14 range with 13 being very common. If you want to be a mover and shaker, after GS-15 there is the SES level which is basically equivalent to commercial C suite. It does not pay like being an executive in industry (no where close) but does come with it's own large set of perks. Becoming an SES is incredibly difficult though.

US gov also has a few special pay bands that come and go. When I was government we had a special pay band for bringing people on in new technical areas that allowed multiple pay raises per year based on performance reviews. That got protested by the union and everyone was moved to GS scale but it was great for new hires while it lasted since you could basically go from GS-7 to 13 without reapplying for your job over the course of about 4 years. Later in my government career I got moved to a pay grade outside of GS where you pay was effectively determined by how many journal papers you published a year and covered GS-12 through lower 15 equivalent but I went to industry shortly after that for an immediate large pay raise. For people that don't know, the "Step" columns in that GS chart are determined by years in service in your current grade. Increasing your grade typically means getting a new job title and competitive interview. I do really miss the vacation time though.

# ? Jul 22, 2023 01:11

Guinness: Sep 15, 2004

mrmcd posted:

The real secret is that getting a FAANG/MANGA big tech job is way way harder than actually working a big tech job.

Yeah getting in is much tougher than staying in, and for many of the big tech touchers it�s not even that stressful unless you�re hardcore ladder climbing

# ? Jul 22, 2023 02:45

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

GWM in government tech is learning cobol and going to IRS. The process of modernizing their tech is going to take longer than your career, it's in incredibly high demand, and you're going to be fixing one of the biggest, gnarliest root problems in modern society.

# ? Jul 22, 2023 05:09

totalnewbie: Nov 13, 2005; I was born and raised in China, lived in Japan, and now hold a US passport.

I am wrong in every way, all the damn time.

Ask me about my tattoos.

Don't they have excel??

# ? Jul 22, 2023 05:28

Jean-Paul Shartre: Jan 16, 2015; this sentence no verb

totalnewbie posted:

Don't they have excel??

They excel at turning cafeterias, lounges and empty offices into storage areas for the literal millions of paper fillings in their backlog. Their IT would be mocked by late eighties corporate folks.

# ? Jul 22, 2023 08:33

Powerful Two-Hander: Mar 10, 2004; Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.

Discendo Vox posted:

GWM in government tech is learning cobol and going to IRS. The process of modernizing their tech is going to take longer than your career, it's in incredibly high demand, and you're going to be fixing one of the biggest, gnarliest root problems in modern society.

That sounds like an awful lot of effort though.

# ? Jul 22, 2023 08:56

A Bad King: Jul 17, 2009; Suppose the oil man,
He comes to town.
And you don't lay money down.

Yet Mr. King,
He killed the thread
The other day.
Well I wonder.
Who's gonna go to Hell?

Powerful Two-Hander posted:

That sounds like an awful lot of effort though.

GWM ≠ GWL

It's not the same as BWM

# ? Jul 22, 2023 13:34

Blade Runner: Aug 14, 2015

Edit because I forgot to include the chaser:

# ? Jul 22, 2023 21:17

SpelledBackwards: Jan 7, 2001; I found this image on the Internet, perhaps you've heard of it? It's been around for a while I hear.

4+ experience? You only have to kill 4 sewer rats for 4 XP!

# ? Jul 22, 2023 21:22

Cacafuego: Jul 22, 2007

31 years old with 500k debt HELP ME PLEASE

quote:

After discovering options I have lost more than 500k. I have a problem with trying to win my money back after losing 100k if my savings. No one know this and my girlfriend wants to get married and buy a house soon. I wanted to win the money back for our future.

Here is what I owe

30k in 3 broker (charge back after I lose it all I did it 3 times)

60k in credit debt with 6 credit card

100k in HELOC mortgage of my parents house that I used to gamble options.

200k personal merchant cash advance debt

20k in car note

80k to my friends and family

I make about 100k a year working 2 jobs...

I default on 5 MCA....one has file a judgment against me.

I have 5k left to my name.

Holy poo poo after writing this, I realized what a gently caress up I am.

Should I file for bankruptcy?

# ? Jul 23, 2023 00:56

Powerful Two-Hander: Mar 10, 2004; Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.

Embrace the spirit of "if I owe the bank a million dollars it's the banks problem" and double down.

Frankly if these places are going to let you make incredibly stupid bets and run up huge losses then the more money taken from them and lost the better. At least that way each incremental catastrophe for one person reduces the availability of cheap credit for the next.

# ? Jul 23, 2023 01:06

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

Here's some prime BWM that appeared to me on youtube recently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3thYfKCL-os

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW9BCJPd3xo

https://www.nextlevelexperience.com/edge

I cannot imagine being insecure enough to find this appealing, especially given that the apparent target audience is relatively wealthy and successful.

...also it looks like a cult.

# ? Jul 23, 2023 01:19

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

Powerful Two-Hander posted:

Embrace the spirit of "if I owe the bank a million dollars it's the banks problem" and double down.

Frankly if these places are going to let you make incredibly stupid bets and run up huge losses then the more money taken from them and lost the better. At least that way each incremental catastrophe for one person reduces the availability of cheap credit for the next.

OTOH I doubt you can get a business loan to trade options with, so there�s probably fraud there. Also they�ve gotten their parents� house mixed up with this.

Jesus, if that�s real, what a gently caress-up.

# ? Jul 23, 2023 02:03

lifg: Dec 4, 2000; <this tag left blank>; Muldoon

Discendo Vox posted:

Here's some prime BWM that appeared to me on youtube recently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3thYfKCL-os

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW9BCJPd3xo

https://www.nextlevelexperience.com/edge

I cannot imagine being insecure enough to find this appealing, especially given that the apparent target audience is relatively wealthy and successful.

...also it looks like a cult.

I imagine it�s men who find themselves financially successful but still unfulfilled, and not quite rich enough to open the doors they want. They feel that something has gone wrong, but can�t quite put their finger on it.

Middle class gets fight club, rich class gets this.

# ? Jul 23, 2023 03:30

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

rjmccall posted:

OTOH I doubt you can get a business loan to trade options with, so there�s probably fraud there. Also they�ve gotten their parents� house mixed up with this.

Jesus, if that�s real, what a gently caress-up.

and, you can't discharge fraud debts in bankruptcy

# ? Jul 23, 2023 03:43

LanceHunter: Nov 12, 2016; Beautiful People Club

BWM - Spending $18,000 to go through a fake pseudo-bootcamp by people who really missed the point of the boot camp scenes in Full Metal Jacket.

BWL - Spending the same amount to put your loving kid through that same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtckN-VaZ-g

# ? Jul 23, 2023 04:40

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

lifg posted:

I imagine it�s men who find themselves financially successful but still unfulfilled, and not quite rich enough to open the doors they want. They feel that something has gone wrong, but can�t quite put their finger on it.

Middle class gets fight club, rich class gets this.

Interestingly, the second video includes a customer/victim who says directly, "I've been in Tony Robbins for 15 years, and it's not even close [to this]". This has a bunch of connotations. First, here's Tony Robbins, who we know is an apparently competing and prominent "life and business strategist"/"life coach"/"leadership psychologist" that this guy wants to be compared favorably to. Second, it says that these people are continuously using the "services" of the gurus over time, so, yeah, it's a sort of dependent culty relationship where the user needs the affirmation and denigration of the guru and the group.

All of this feels very similar to older framings of the after dinner speakers; Norman Vincent Peale et al, who I've been looking into lately. Stuff targeted at a different generation of (exclusively male) businessmen.

Maybe I shoulda posted this in the scam thread...can anyone tell how much these people actually charge?

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jul 23, 2023

# ? Jul 23, 2023 04:55

Armacham: Mar 3, 2007; Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?

Discendo Vox posted:

Interestingly, the second video includes a customer/victim who says directly, "I've been in Tony Robbins for 15 years, and it's not even close [to this]". This has a bunch of connotations. First, here's Tony Robbins, who we know is an apparently competing and prominent "life and business strategist"/"life coach"/"leadership psychologist" that this guy wants to be compared favorably to. Second, it says that these people are continuously using the "services" of the gurus over time, so, yeah, it's a sort of dependent culty relationship where the user needs the affirmation and denigration of the guru and the group.

All of this feels very similar to older framings of the after dinner speakers; Norman Vincent Peale et al, who I've been looking into lately. Stuff targeted at a different generation of (exclusively male) businessmen.

Maybe I shoulda posted this in the scam thread...can anyone tell how much these people actually charge?

The seven habits of highly effective people is the Mormon version

# ? Jul 23, 2023 05:05

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

I've always been an adherent of Dale Carnegie's lesser known work, How to Influence People Without Winning Friends.

# ? Jul 23, 2023 07:24

Zachack: Jun 1, 2000

Discendo Vox posted:

Interestingly, the second video includes a customer/victim who says directly, "I've been in Tony Robbins for 15 years, and it's not even close [to this]". This has a bunch of connotations. First, here's Tony Robbins, who we know is an apparently competing and prominent "life and business strategist"/"life coach"/"leadership psychologist" that this guy wants to be compared favorably to. Second, it says that these people are continuously using the "services" of the gurus over time, so, yeah, it's a sort of dependent culty relationship where the user needs the affirmation and denigration of the guru and the group.

All of this feels very similar to older framings of the after dinner speakers; Norman Vincent Peale et al, who I've been looking into lately. Stuff targeted at a different generation of (exclusively male) businessmen.

Maybe I shoulda posted this in the scam thread...can anyone tell how much these people actually charge?

Presumably not much because I'll need to take Next Level Experience at least three times to get the 4+ experience level for that Full Stack job posted above.

# ? Jul 23, 2023 07:31

Residency Evil: Jul 28, 2003; 4/5 godo... Schumi

https://redf.in/8hr57v

I don't understand. Please help me understand.

# ? Jul 24, 2023 02:13

Motronic: Nov 6, 2009

Same as the bay area, has nothing to do with the dwelling itself, it's the cost of the space it's built on. Which isn't even "your" land in this case.

Yeah, it's all nuts.

# ? Jul 24, 2023 02:16

Residency Evil: Jul 28, 2003; 4/5 godo... Schumi

Motronic posted:

Same as the bay area, has nothing to do with the dwelling itself, it's the cost of the space it's built on. Which isn't even "your" land in this case.

Yeah, it's all nuts.

No I understand that. I just don't understand.

What kind of person can afford a 1.6M vacation home and then is fine with 387 sq ft?

# ? Jul 24, 2023 02:32

Upgrade: Jun 19, 2021

Residency Evil posted:

No I understand that. I just don't understand.

What kind of person can afford a 1.6M vacation home and then is fine with 387 sq ft?

Someone who wants go Airbnb it out?

# ? Jul 24, 2023 02:33

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 8, 2024 22:55

bob dobbs is dead: Oct 8, 2017; I love peeps; Nap Ghost

someone whos speculating that itll go to 2.4 million so they can cash out 800k, less taxes and fees and poo poo

# ? Jul 24, 2023 02:35

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Based Wage Making: Money Sitting as a Service

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