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Right now the rent seeking seems driven by the fact that there's an imbalance such that it's less risky and more profitable to own existing property and extract increasingly higher rents from it, than it is to develop and build new property. It seems like the big solution is to seek a rebalance by which investment flows away from speculating on existing properties and into creating new ones. The BC/Fed NDP have the right idea here in creating a fund to buy up old existing residential apartments before they can be bought up by REITs or developers, but that's just a basic band aid. There needs to be much more of a ground up systemic approach to the regulatory and tax code to shift behaviour somehow. I'd venture an extremely handwavey idea that the government needs to somehow make it insanely profitable, viable and easy for everyone, non-profits, coops, individual owners, and market developers, to create new buildings. The first thing that comes to mind, leaning on the fact that it's what was done in the 1960s to achieve the same aim, is to cut regulations and taxes associated with creating housing across the board. Hand in hand with this though I think we need to find a better way to capture the wealth created by all this on the backend. Considering the fact that we have residential developers in BC having made so much insane amounts of money that they built their own literal art museums for themselves. We could probably tax a bit more. Maybe it's something that BC could do all by itself in simply raising BC income taxes at the very high end, or maybe there's much more elaborate sorts of taxation that is required here to not induce second order effects. A problem here is that this is a multi-jurisdictional problem. We'd be asking/forcing municipalities to cut taxes and fees in order to incentivize development, but maybe not having an ability to recoup those costs for them without perhaps the federal government making tax changes to raise more revenue. Without everyone organized and on the same page with the same plan it becomes challenging.
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Jul 22, 2023 21:30
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Land tax.
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Jul 23, 2023 00:44
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Tax appreciation as income every year. "Realized gains" or whatever. Right now we are storing money (i.e. productivity) in buildings that do nothing but house a single family. Tax those 'gains' and spend it on building more buildings, reducing the 'gains' and the taxes. It is a self sustaining feedback loop where if things heat up, the tax and build mechanism cools them down, and the money goes to something productive like paying wages and buying materials.
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Jul 23, 2023 00:51
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eXXon posted:everything else that's exceptional about life in the USA It's already been the case for a couple of years that mediocre insurance in the U.S. combined with an expensive chronic medical condition is significantly less of a cost than the fact that Canadian housing is easily twice as expensive for no reason. Especially when you factor in the higher salaries down there.
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Jul 23, 2023 01:04
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tagesschau posted:It's already been the case for a couple of years that mediocre insurance in the U.S. combined with an expensive chronic medical condition is significantly less of a cost than the fact that Canadian housing is easily twice as expensive for no reason. Especially when you factor in the higher salaries down there. Many of the places blah_blah listed have exceptionally high housing costs too, as do most of the cities I'd actually (hypothetically) want to live in in the US. If you want to argue about median rents across the country or the desirability of random Texan/Midwest towns vs Prairies/Maritimes or whatever else, be my guest but it's not really my interest.
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Jul 23, 2023 01:45
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Subjunctive posted:Came across this screenshot from an unknown Reddit place when looking for something else on my phone.
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Jul 23, 2023 02:27
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Baronjutter posted:Cheap floorspace is like one of the best things for any economy. Cheap housing, cheap office, cheap retail, cheap industrial space. But we've, as a policy, decided that actually very very high rents and land values are a good thing. You get this sort of Dutch Disease situation where the RE sector booms but at the direct expense of every other loving sector. It's an absolute parasitic economic sector that should not ever be seen as a good thing when it's booming. It's pretty much this, which is utterly opposed to the neoliberalism that is the overriding ideology of every western country, propping up the landowning classes to utterly unsustainable degrees. No one with any power actually understands how a society works.
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Jul 23, 2023 04:08
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eXXon posted:Many of the places blah_blah listed have exceptionally high housing costs too, as do most of the cities I'd actually (hypothetically) want to live in in the US. If you want to argue about median rents across the country or the desirability of random Texan/Midwest towns vs Prairies/Maritimes or whatever else, be my guest but it's not really my interest. Yeah, it's definitely not a randomly chosen set of cities, and a couple are even more expensive than Vancouver. Mostly the sentiment that I was trying to express (entitled as it is) is how remarkably little spending a ton of money on real estate seems to gets you in Vancouver. It doesn't get you access to exceptional jobs, culture, people, schools, or weather -- but those are precisely what drive the prices in similarly expensive US markets. Better transit isn't worth anything to buyers of expensive SFH, and you have the same access to Whistler living on the west side as someone living in the Tri-Cities despite housing prices varying by a factor of 2-3x. It just seems to be a place where for idiosyncratic reasons, demand is so excessive and confined to a specific market that it can permanently result in prices vastly above what one would expect from fundamentals.
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Jul 23, 2023 05:17
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blah_blah posted:Yeah, it's definitely not a randomly chosen set of cities, and a couple are even more expensive than Vancouver. Mostly the sentiment that I was trying to express (entitled as it is) is how remarkably little spending a ton of money on real estate seems to gets you in Vancouver. It doesn't get you access to exceptional jobs, culture, people, schools, or weather -- but those are precisely what drive the prices in similarly expensive US markets. Better transit isn't worth anything to buyers of expensive SFH, and you have the same access to Whistler living on the west side as someone living in the Tri-Cities despite housing prices varying by a factor of 2-3x. It just seems to be a place where for idiosyncratic reasons, demand is so excessive and confined to a specific market that it can permanently result in prices vastly above what one would expect from fundamentals. It's more expensive because you don't have to live in America.
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Jul 23, 2023 05:27
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large hands posted:It's more expensive because you don't have to live in America. I see we're still on "Vancouver, greatest place on Earth" dialogue after a decade of this thread. There's way more desire among high-skill immigrants (Canadians, Indians) to move to the US than there is to Canada, and foreign demand hasn't been a credible driver of Canadian housing price increases for like a half decade at this point. Also it's obvious that Vancouver is a major outlier based on fundamentals relative to every other Canadian city. No one talks about how ridiculous housing prices in Alberta or Montreal are.
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Jul 23, 2023 05:56
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eXXon posted:Many of the places blah_blah listed have exceptionally high housing costs too Relative to income, Toronto and Vancouver are at least a third more expensive than all of them. Yes, even NYC and San Francisco. eXXon posted:as do most of the cities I'd actually (hypothetically) want to live in in the US. If you want to argue about median rents across the country or the desirability of random Texan/Midwest towns vs Prairies/Maritimes or whatever else, be my guest but it's not really my interest. The specific city I was pricing things out for, if it were part of Canada, would be the fourth largest metro area. It's not like I'm talking about Lincoln, Nebraska, or something (not that there's anything wrong with Lincoln). large hands posted:It's more expensive because you don't have to live in America. No amount of handwaving around desirability will enable the incomes in Canada's largest cities to translate into the housing prices we're currently seeing.
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Jul 23, 2023 06:42
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blah_blah posted:I see we're still on "Vancouver, greatest place on Earth" dialogue after a decade of this thread. There's way more desire among high-skill immigrants (Canadians, Indians) to move to the US than there is to Canada, and foreign demand hasn't been a credible driver of Canadian housing price increases for like a half decade at this point. That being said, there is nothing to justify the valuations here. It’s still a great place to live, but when a 1bdrm is 2.7k and house is 1.5m+, idk how long it can last.
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Jul 23, 2023 09:14
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Blah_blah's original point was that Vancouver is an "unpleasant place to live" compared to similar US cities because its amenities are mediocre or bad, and therefore they didn't understand why anyone would pay exorbitant prices to live there if they could go to Seattle/San Diego/wherever. quote:Restaurants are mediocre. Bars and breweries are worse. Grocery stores are terrible. Banks/brokerages are terrible. A ton of the little conveniences you have in the US are gone (delivery for anything, 1-day shipping, Venmo). Even $5M+ CAD houses on the west side aren't actually high-end in terms of design/comfort (who wants ADUs and a bunch of tiny bedrooms in a house that expensive?). Expensive neighborhoods and their schools are clearly worse than their counterparts in the US because you're surrounded here by families who either got rich through the real-estate bubble or through questionable means abroad, there's no professionals at the top of their fields (and their kids) here. I'm from Victoria, have intermittently spent a lot of time in Vancouver up until the late 2010s, and lived in a couple of major US cities over the years. I think that with the exception of the US-only services, like 1-day shipping and Venmo and the quality of housing, none of this is true. Also, having lived in the US and dealt with the system there, there are a few factors related to quality of life that you and others seem to be ignoring: 1. Even if you have good health insurance (which I did), dealing with any kind of actual medical situation is terrible. Having to figure out if a hospital or individual physician is in-network before heading to the ER; having to negotiate with insurers over the coverage of medications for chronic conditions; having to deal for hours on end with customer service reps over mistakes in bills; etc. These are all things that I personally experienced even when I didn't have to deal with any major medical crises, which is when the nightmare really begins. 2. Gun violence is an ever-present reality, even in comfortable, affluent cities. We had active shooter instructions at my workplace and had a false alarm that led to everyone being placed on lockdown at one point. Several of my friends and colleagues had at some point encountered a violent situation involving guns, whether a robbery or an altercation. Do you want your kids to grow up having to do active shooter drills monthly? 3. Most of the cities blah_blah listed are located in liberal states, but national politics is increasingly having real-world impacts on the quality of life of even comfortable, affluent people in those states. The Supreme Court is only going to continue to restrict access to all kinds of basic amenities for decades to come. A national abortion ban will be floated soon enough, and they've hinted that contraception will be up for debate soon as well. The 5 years I spent living in a comfortable neighbourhood of a large US city were enough to make me want to move away and never live there again, despite opportunities to do so. MeinPanzer fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Jul 23, 2023 |
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Jul 23, 2023 10:17
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Yes, my particular point is around Vancouver and not e.g. Toronto, which is both cheaper and better along specific dimensions that I previously mentioned (e.g. access to better jobs, schools, etc). I'm not saying that I like Toronto more as a city than Vancouver but it's much clearer to me why people are willing to pay lots of money to live there. Most of the points you mention below are generic anti-living in the US points, and they generally don't agree with my decade of living in different HCOL/VHCOL cities in the US. In fact, it's precisely my original point -- that very expensive US cities/suburbs clearly buy you something -- better healthcare, better schools (in both cases, than anywhere in Canada), and safety that's more or less on par with Canadian cities -- whereas living in Vancouver does not obviously do the same. But obviously some of these things are a matter of taste and it's entirely reasonable that others here disagree, I'm glad to leave it at that. qhat posted:That’s not what he said. And for what it’s worth as someone in tech, I know plenty of people who get paid 6.5 figures for whom the USA is a no go, especially since remote work is a more accepted thing. The healthcare, the guns politics, yeah pretending as if this isn’t a big deal for high earners and their families is just untrue. Sure, but the reverse direction is more interesting and more revealing. There are plenty of never-US people in Canada, but the US is the clear revealed preference as a destination for the highest-skill immigrants initially (that is, internet snark aside, many immigrants very much want to live in the US, and more than anywhere else), and those same people are now generally able to work remotely from a wide range of markets including Canada. I know literally no people at senior levels of tech (director+; 1M+ USD comp) who have gone remote in Vancouver, a handful of such people who have gone remote in Toronto, and a large number of people who have done so to HCOL but in traditionally non-tier one tech markets (think San Diego, Austin, Boulder, D.C., Miami, etc). blah_blah fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jul 23, 2023 |
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Jul 23, 2023 17:20
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blah_blah posted:Also it's obvious that Vancouver is a major outlier based on fundamentals relative to every other Canadian city. No one talks about how ridiculous housing prices in Alberta or Montreal are. The housing crisis in Montreal/Quebec is regular front page news even at 1/3 of Vancouver prices lol
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Jul 23, 2023 17:58
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Yeah I live in Victoria and just don't get the attraction of Vancouver. Its economy and job market suck, but it has NYC or SF level rents. Unless your job is flipping condos or something, if you're going to pay those obscene housing costs maybe live somewhere with an actual economy. I've had plenty of friends who had to move to Toronto to really significantly advance their career, but anyone I know who left Victoria to Vancouver just enjoys way longer commutes and higher rents for the same dogshit pay you'd have enjoyed staying in Victoria, specially horrible if they're just working service jobs. Friends who have actually moved to the US for their career though are always really excited and love it at first but always end up coming back to Canada once the horrors of the US start to seep through their high-paid tech job bubbles. They'll often trade a 150k job in the bay area or Seattle for a 120k job back home because they just can't handle the brutality of the USA. The dumbest move I ever saw was a friend who had a sweet low rent setup here in Victoria and a pretty good paying food service job move to Toronto for "more opportunities", but he ended up just working the exact same sort of service jobs but for less money and like 3x the rent he was paying. He also went from being able to walk to his job to generally 1.5 hour miserable transit trips. Of course by the time he came back to Victoria all our rents had gone up to nearly toronto levels.
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Jul 23, 2023 18:04
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COPE 27 posted:The housing crisis in Montreal/Quebec is regular front page news even at 1/3 of Vancouver prices lol I suppose I should amend that to “no one not from Montreal/Quebec talks about how ridiculous housing prices are”, which is true and the intended meaning.
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Jul 23, 2023 18:05
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Like I said, it's time to move to Saguenay.
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Jul 23, 2023 18:12
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If you had asked me 10 years ago do I want to live in the USA or Canada, I would’ve picked USA every day. Not because I’d min-maxed all differences in amenities and politics, but because ultimately it’s a cooler place to live when you’re younger with more opportunities overall. I didn’t end up going to the USA because frankly, the immigration system is nuts and it’s actually easier to get in by grinding out Canadian citizenship and hired through nafta. Now that I’m a Canadian citizen though, my mindset is completely different. Unless it really was some place that gets me excited, like San Diego, and comp was in the millions, AND RTO was suddenly mandated for everyone; I would not consider moving there. TLDR What I’m basically saying is that at face value, USA is the preferred choice for immigrants because of the perceived and actual opportunities. Many people make very different decisions once they are here and the golden handcuffs are removed. Knowing that I can get those opportunities outside the USA changes the equation for me anyway quite a bit, and I’d question whether I’d really be happier there given all the above.
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Jul 23, 2023 18:20
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I think in some ways I feel it should not be surprising that that immigrants would be significantly more interested in moving to the USA, the obvious more money, more opportunity place versus the more nuanced benefits of living in Canada. Choosing to leave the only home you've ever known and go way out there in order to better your life is in many ways really wild risky behaviour. For some people even more huge risk and effort than others. If you're going to go for it, why not go all in? Max risk, max reward. Add onto this the fact that many of the nuanced reasons one could put forward for why Canada is a Great Place To Be are more subtle benefits oriented toward an older person with a family, and these sorts of reasons are likely to be irrelevant and ignored by a young single immigrant. A point to take away here is that Canada's cost of living has now spiked so much, that maybe the reward of Canada is eroding and tilting the balance even more toward the USA. blah_blah posted:Yeah, it's definitely not a randomly chosen set of cities, and a couple are even more expensive than Vancouver. Mostly the sentiment that I was trying to express (entitled as it is) is how remarkably little spending a ton of money on real estate seems to gets you in Vancouver. It doesn't get you access to exceptional jobs, culture, people, schools, or weather -- but those are precisely what drive the prices in similarly expensive US markets. Better transit isn't worth anything to buyers of expensive SFH, and you have the same access to Whistler living on the west side as someone living in the Tri-Cities despite housing prices varying by a factor of 2-3x. It just seems to be a place where for idiosyncratic reasons, demand is so excessive and confined to a specific market that it can permanently result in prices vastly above what one would expect from fundamentals. blah_blah posted:... I think these points I've bolded here are really interesting, the notion that the qualities of various Vancouver neighbourhoods and cities are more even than prices would seem. From a crass, "what am I getting for my money," POV doesn't seem terribly obvious. I know from stories from folks I know in the USA it can be a lot more explicit, deriving from the way that local property taxes flow into schools and such. I recall a friend working in the Washington DC area saying she badly needed to move out of Bethesda or something or other, because the property taxes were absolutely loving crazy high and just one county over they sunk like a stone. Presumably there's an amenity gap here. Arguably that exists in Vancouver too but less expressed. West side Vancouver would give one close access to the St George private school (that Justin Trudeau used to teach at) but the public schools in the west side aren't likely terribly better in quality than the best public schools of other relatively rich areas around the region. I've felt for a long while that the price gap between West and East in Vancouver is puzzling, especially when one considers that for the last few decades the wealth of energy has been pouring into EastVan, resulting in Mount Pleasant becoming a buzzy hotspot of cool retail and restaurants, while Dunbar has languished and become a dead zone. Savvy speculators and home buyers that bought cute heritage homes in Mount Pleasant for a relatively low price, have seen those prices explode upward. The price gap is so obvious and weird that I think in a major way it has fueled the meme of foreign buyers in Vancouver, as "foreign buyers" has become the dark matter used to explain the unexplainable in any Vancouver housing equation. May well be some truth to this in that there's a good argument to be made that the general price dynamics of the region are driven by things Canadians want to pretend don't exist: class and race. At one point the West Side would have been in demand because East Van was full of non-white immigrants and if you lived in the West Side there was a guarantee that your kids would be with other rich white kids that spoke english well. Rich newcomers from mainland China that have been so actively interested in the area are likely chasing the previous built up prestige of the West Side. Speaking with my realtor friend he noted with some puzzlement about the relative values of East Van new builds versus stuff out in Tswwassen and Langley that you'd think would be priced on more of a discount given distance. Here too I think there is an under discussed racial dimension at play as the region divides along racial lines. Ultimately point is that the home buyer that doesn't care about some of these things that drive the market they are able to scoop up a property on discount, though they may also not see the sort of appreciation they expect.
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Jul 23, 2023 19:20
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qhat posted:If you had asked me 10 years ago do I want to live in the USA or Canada, I would’ve picked USA every day. Not because I’d min-maxed all differences in amenities and politics, but because ultimately it’s a cooler place to live when you’re younger with more opportunities overall. I didn’t end up going to the USA because frankly, the immigration system is nuts and it’s actually easier to get in by grinding out Canadian citizenship and hired through nafta. I want to stay in Canada mainly due to my support network being in Canada at this point the income:CoL ratio at the moment mean living in the GTA is losing proposition economically
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Jul 23, 2023 19:51
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Yeah, even though my opinions differ a bit from qhat's above he's 100% correct that US immigration is a meatgrinder and very difficult and time-consuming to navigate. It does select for people who are more risk-seeking and probably more temperamentally aligned with the winner-take-all aspects of American life. But I have been actually surprised at how few of the many Canadian US-resident friends in my social group have availed themselves of post-COVID options around remote work to do their current job remotely in Canada (usually for like a 20% pre-tax, post-currency paycut). The ones who have, have all ended up in Toronto.Femtosecond posted:Arguably that exists in Vancouver too but less expressed. West side Vancouver would give one close access to the St George private school (that Justin Trudeau used to teach at) but the public schools in the west side aren't likely terribly better in quality than the best public schools of other relatively rich areas around the region. I think one of the key things to understand (and one of the reasons some people dislike life in the US) is how aggressive sorting is. Not in a Europe-style class-based sense but just simply on wealth and professional status. US salaries are higher than Canadian ones even at the median, but in the upper end the differences are really large. You don't become wealthy by riding the property ladder, you become wealthy by having a career that pays a lot. Even in places in the US where there have been enormous run-ups in prices, they've generally been driven by high-skill industries that sprung up in those areas. Like, buying a house in Palo Alto 50 years ago was certainly winning the lottery, but they were also mostly Stanford grads or early Silicon Valley employees. So what you see in the US is that expensive cities and suburbs are overwhelmingly populated by highly-educated professionals, who both demand high-quality schools and contribute to them by having high-achieving kids. In Vancouver, it's much more of an accident of place and time. On average homeowners on the west side might have slightly higher-paying jobs than homeowners on the east side (if they have jobs at all), but if you trace back their wealth direct employment income is typically going to be a relatively small portion in both cases. Femtosecond posted:Rich newcomers from mainland China that have been so actively interested in the area are likely chasing the previous built up prestige of the West Side. I could write pages on the differences between Chinese immigrants in expensive neighborhoods in the US and Canada, but yeah, the selection effects are enormous. In the US most wealthy Chinese residents of expensive areas are first/second-generation immigrants who entered the US as grad students and the like, they represent the intellectual cream of the crop of a 1 billion person country and they have extraordinarily high expectations of their kids both academically and career-wise (third-generation is a much more mixed bag). Their kids also assimilate really well. The rich mainlanders that you mention above are typically a lot less smart and a lot more likely to be astronaut families (so lacking in parental stability for the kids), they don't assimilate, and they are in a lot of cases a negative contributor to school quality. Because US immigration is much more selective than Canadian immigration, they don't typically get many students of this type at the secondary level or below(regardless of nationality) -- they are more likely to come in to the US at the college/university level. (In fact the interesting dynamic that's been taking place for the past decade or so in rich suburbs of the US is that Chinese/Indian first and second gen students are actually too strong academically and outcompete most high-achieving white kids, which is driving a lot of flight from non-Asian affluent families towards private schools. This is a big part of the general affirmative action debate there because many people don't want elite spaces becoming too Asian and are applying various forms of implicit and explicit discrimination -- even relative to whites -- to prevent that)
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Jul 23, 2023 20:04
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Lots of rumours around a cabinet shuffle. Surely the Housing Minister has got to go right? Especially after this awful op-ed. quote:Ahmed Hussen: Don't blame municipal leaders for the housing crisis Nah I'm pretty sure Mayors are a big problem here and I'm pretty sure everything the Feds have done has been completely ineffectual.
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Jul 24, 2023 16:51
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It's pretty funny for a federal minister to say that while the BC Government is talking about the many failures of the various municipal governments.
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Jul 24, 2023 18:19
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all three levels of government when it comes to canadian housing policy: 
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Jul 24, 2023 18:25
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Femtosecond posted:Lots of rumours around a cabinet shuffle. Surely the Housing Minister has got to go right? He's probably done: quote:Several ministerial announcements that had been scheduled for early this week have been cancelled. They include events originally set for Monday with Petitpas Taylor in Montreal, Transport Minister Omar Alghabra in Vancouver and Housing Minister Ahmed Hussen in St. John's. Hope it was worth it!
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Jul 24, 2023 21:37
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The talk of Vancouver not really being worth it is pretty funny to me living in Victoria, because I feel like Victoria has the same problem maybe even to a larger degree. Personally I love it here, but realistically it is a pretty podunk town even on an objective level, and certainly relative to the cost of living. I find it very funny the people that talk about how housing is inexorably expensive here because Everyone Wants to Live Here.
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Jul 24, 2023 23:11
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I’d kill to live in Vancouver if it was in any way affordable.
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Jul 25, 2023 00:53
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Vintersorg posted:I’d kill to live in Vancouver if it was in any way affordable. Do you have any family members you're in line for inheritance from? Cause yeah that's basically the only way these days. Gotta get that intergenerational wealth.
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Jul 25, 2023 01:24
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Finally managed to google up some numbers on how many Canadians are mortgage free homeowners, and it's way more than I expected. Over 30% of Canadian (boomer) households in 2016 have a fully paid primary home. That's a lot of people who don't care much about interest rates, but do have very strong opinions about ~neighborhood character~. https://showmethegreen.ca/home/mortgages/what-percentage-of-canadian-homeowners-are-mortgage-free/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/personal-finance/retirement/article-retirement-pay-off-mortgage/ https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2019001/article/00012-eng.htm
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Jul 25, 2023 01:40
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How many of those Canadians have second or third (or fourth) properties that are mortgaged to the tits I wonder
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Jul 25, 2023 02:02
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Tangy Zizzle posted:How many of those Canadians have second or third (or fourth) properties that are mortgaged to the tits I wonder This has been discussed before but I can’t be arsed to find it. IIRC the number of multiple homeowners is actually very low.
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Jul 25, 2023 04:44
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What matters is total outstanding mortgage debt vs the total equity in the market. 30% paid off doesn’t mean anything and is also btw not even remotely close to enough to be robust against a severe drop in the market.
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Jul 25, 2023 04:57
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Counterpoint: those with fully-paid-off houses are probably, or at least should be, less prickish about housing than the highly leveraged. I, entirely through luck, am one of the folks who owns without debt. I know I got here through luck, and that's why I look at people dealing with the current state of the rental market as "there but for the grace of God go I". What I want is a functional society, and if the imagined value of my home has to down to make that happen, why should I care? We cannot have the functional society I wish for as long as housing is this precarious at all levels. Now, if I was faced with the possibility of going underwater on a mortgage or facing an interest rate increase I absolutely couldn't afford, I might feel very different. But what I can't understand is people with a paid-off dwelling giving a single gently caress. We've won the game regardless; this is the most housing security you can ever have, you are the least exposed to any sort of change in the market or the economy.
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Jul 25, 2023 05:12
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It's because the people who paid off their housing are simultaneously the ones betting on their house being their retirement nest egg. They are hoping to either sell it to live [I don't know where] or reverse mortgage it or something.
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Jul 25, 2023 05:35
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So despite living East Vancouver, this showed up in my mailbox today:  This is going to go nowhere I bet.
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Jul 25, 2023 05:40
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qhat posted:It's because the people who paid off their housing are simultaneously the ones betting on their house being their retirement nest egg. They are hoping to either sell it to live [I don't know where] or reverse mortgage it or something. Oh, well.... they shouldn't have done that.
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Jul 25, 2023 05:45
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leftist heap posted:This has been discussed before but I can’t be arsed to find it. IIRC the number of multiple homeowners is actually very low. I think it was around 30% of boomers have more than one property
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Jul 25, 2023 05:55
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Actual change might actually be somewhat approaching maybe happeningquote:Vancouver about to eliminate its single-family residential zoning rules At the end of the day, new build stuff is still $1000+/sqft so you really can't expect ~affordable~ housing out of any of this. That being said if they can seriously keep it down near $1000/sqft, well as the article states, it's a lot cheaper than buying a $2M+ house anyway.
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Jul 25, 2023 06:43
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qhat posted:It's because the people who paid off their housing are simultaneously the ones betting on their house being their retirement nest egg. They are hoping to either sell it to live [I don't know where] or reverse mortgage it or something. I actually don't think this is correct. Based on my knowledge of lots of boomer family and family friends in Vancouver and Victoria, few people who own their homes debt-free and are retired or are planning to retire soon have any intent to sell, because they know it's impossible to buy anywhere nearby and want to be near friends and family where they already live. They also aren't going to reverse mortgage their house, because they don't want to saddle their children with debt when they die. The main reason they're opposed to development is because they fear that just when they want to live a quiet life their neighborhood will suddenly become a busy corner of the city, with whatever negatives that might entail. I don't think that's a valid concern, but it is IME the main reason they push back against development plans. MeinPanzer fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jul 25, 2023 |
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Jul 25, 2023 08:35
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