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Byzantine posted:Do you have any references for them? Not disputing, just curious. Usually Odin's deal was he wanted the souls of warriors who died in battle for his army of Einherjar, not to train the living. Basically Odin is associated with hanging and by hanging, gaining knowledge/power. The historical record of this is as Odin telling a story of gaining the runes when he hung and pierced himself with a spear. But that stinks of Christian syncretism (whether it is or not) and older rune stones or pictographs only depict Odin watching over hangings of others so prehistoric Odin opening: hanging is important and it's usually something you don't want done to you and yours, so the power is gained by doing it to others and might makes right if you're a fascist looking for big fascist daddy gods so you should probably be hanging others. From there you can further find accounts of those at the bad end of a viking raid talking about human sacrifice and bingo bango Odin is a big fascist daddy needing you to hang the lesser people to stave off the end of the world. ToxicFrog posted:Giving this way more thought than it deserves:
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Jul 27, 2023 22:46
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Everyone wants to worship Odin but nobody wants to get to get hosed in the rear end to get magic powers. Well, the people who do want that don’t want to worship Odin, at least
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Jul 27, 2023 22:46
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Marcade posted:Odinism is passe. Call me when you get into Onanism. I hear self-flagellation is a central tenet
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Jul 27, 2023 22:48
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Cool Kids Club Soda posted:I hear self-flagellation is a central tenet As is shaking hands with the bishop
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Jul 27, 2023 22:52
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I thought you were supposed to beat the bishop. This is very embarrassing.
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Jul 27, 2023 22:56
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Box 'im till he's bloody
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Jul 27, 2023 23:17
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Mentioning Crusader Kings got me thinking about a different Paradox game. Specifically I'm mad about the huge Hearts of Iron mod Kaiserreich having Huey Long be the champion of the US fascist movement. Huey Long was a left-wing radical from a parish that had been an abolitionist and union bastion in the civil war, and continued on to be a bastion for the progressives, for Eugene Debs and the socialists, and on into the civil rights era. He saved a lot of people during the Great Depression. He draft-dodged the Great War and won his own case when he was tried under the Espionage Act. Despite never even finishing high school. He hated Standard Oil and US imperialism in South America. He lambasted Franklin Roosevelt for not being radical enough during the early New Deal years and Roosevelt in turn took most of his advice in the Second New Deal. He advocated universal national healthcare back when most countries didn't have it. He got shot for doing what lots of US americans want to do today, gerrymander the poo poo out of a right-wing failson opponent and give them a taste of their own medicine. But now thanks to the mapgame mod, almost everyone not around here knows Huey Long as "neoconfederate fascist lunatic" which is so bullshit   he wasn't perfect but I'm glad to have him buried in a giant tomb glaring right at the godawful rightist state capital Edgar Allen Ho has a new favorite as of 16:13 on Jul 28, 2023 |
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Jul 28, 2023 16:03
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zedprime posted:Not specifically. I think it's just the Nazi scholarship synthesis backing up their death cult and it's trickled into pop culture like American Gods and Crusader Kings. huh, never heard this interpretation in denmark but as far as rune stones & bracteates etc, odin is most commonly depicted as a one-eyed warrior/king, often with his horse sleipnir and/or the ravens huginn & muninn. i cant recall any that show him hanged. there are some that show a bound figure, but he is usually interpreted as loki human sacrifice was absolutely a thing (unless bog bodies were just a way of disposing of murder victims), but from what ive read sacrifices werent dedicated specifically to odin (except perhaps in his title as psychopomp) but rather to the entire pantheon
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Jul 28, 2023 16:39
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Odin hung himself for nine days from the branches of the world tree.
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Jul 28, 2023 16:44
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venus de lmao posted:I thought you were supposed to beat the bishop. This is very embarrassing. Cool Kids Club Soda posted:Box 'im till he's bloody Smack my bishop? Smack my bishop?!
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Jul 28, 2023 17:10
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Biplane posted:Odin hung himself for nine days from the branches of the world tree. yes sure he was himself hanged (nazis are gonna make up poo poo anyway, but iirc the havamal is the only source for that & it was recorded centuries after the north was christianized, so zedprime is probably right that there might be some christian influence esp re the spear) but i dont recall that he is actually depicted in a hanging context, thats my main objection to the idea really
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Jul 28, 2023 17:10
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tribbledirigible posted:Smack my bishop? Smack my bishop?! *varg's ears perk up* firestarter? i am a firestarter
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Jul 28, 2023 17:11
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Carthag Tuek posted:*varg's ears perk up* firestarter? i am a firestarter 
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Jul 28, 2023 17:13
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Carthag Tuek posted:yes sure he was himself hanged (nazis are gonna make up poo poo anyway, but iirc the havamal is the only source for that & it was recorded centuries after the north was christianized, so zedprime is probably right that there might be some christian influence esp re the spear) but i dont recall that he is actually depicted in a hanging context, thats my main objection to the idea really There is ex. Stora Hammars I which has a purported Odin holy symbol directly over a human sacrifice. Which with enough Odin white washing could just be psychopomp but you can't exactly ask the artist anymore and like you say, Nazis gonna Nazi.
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Jul 28, 2023 17:20
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the holy poopacy posted:Sure, but they also had an entirely different set of values and prejudices and the things that are divisive today are not necessarily things they would have given two shits about. The ancient Norse warrior elite did not have any concept of "homosexuality", much of what we consider gay is stuff they would disapprove of, but to them it would be "argr", which is betraying the Bro Code by letting oneself be penetrated--so tops are OK, war rape of dudes is badass, but bottoms are reprehensible and equivalent to wizards, who are also unmanly and evil. Gandalf? They would have murdered the gently caress out of Gandalf. Woolie Wool has a new favorite as of 17:30 on Jul 28, 2023 |
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Jul 28, 2023 17:24
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zedprime posted:The first source I'm getting off Google for Odin presiding over hangings just says "some Gotland picture stone has sleipnir and a hanging" and is further unsourced itself so I'm now idly googling picture stones. yeah lot of battle scenes on the Hammar stones but no hangings that i can see Woolie Wool posted:The ancient Norse warrior elite did not have any concept of "homosexuality", much of what we consider gay is stuff they would disapprove of, but to them it would be "argr", which is betraying the Bro Code by letting oneself be penetrated--so tops are OK, war rape of dudes is badass, but bottoms are reprehensible and equivalent to wizards, who are also unmanly and evil. the top/bottom equals man/woman thing was the greeks & romans tho? there was tons of machismo, slavery, and rape in ancient scandinavia but making stuff up is counterproductive. im not trying to whitewash, i just prefer that its actually in the text or at least subtext fwiw there are multiple examples of afab people being buried as "warrior kings" (ie swords, horse stuff, boats) and theres in i think norway (something -haug, google is worthless now) a burial of an xxy chromosome person who was clearly of high stature. so at least in the upper classes, having whatever biological sex wasnt necessarily your fate also  gandalf was a dwarf in norse mythology, tolkien got a lot of names and stuff from there and elsewhere
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Jul 28, 2023 18:02
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Woolie Wool posted:The ancient Norse warrior elite did not have any concept of "homosexuality", much of what we consider gay is stuff they would disapprove of, but to them it would be "argr", which is betraying the Bro Code by letting oneself be penetrated--so tops are OK, war rape of dudes is badass, but bottoms are reprehensible and equivalent to wizards, who are also unmanly and evil. I mean that’s basically every ancient culture including the Roman’s and the Greeks The Greeks found a workaround with their young boy stuff, but even that didn’t involve penetration, ideally
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Jul 28, 2023 18:08
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The Alf in Gandalf is "álfr" or elf in the original text because to the Norse Elf probably meant something more akin to minor diety or powerful supernatural being instead of being a separate race as we would understand it today. Due to this there are some dwarves who are elves and also some venerated ancestors who are elves and so on and so forth. Troll works similarly but was usually used to describe malignant supernatural powers like wizards, ghosts, and monsters. Like with elves it didn't become a word for one specific type of creature until the 18th century when people got really into categorization and Trolls became just giants/ogres. In the Scandinavian languages this older still survives as magic is Trolldom and a wizard is a trollmand. Which is why in Nordic translations of Lord of the Rings Gand-Elf is a Troll-Man. FreudianSlippers has a new favorite as of 18:15 on Jul 28, 2023 |
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Jul 28, 2023 18:12
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Where do Ogres come from
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Jul 28, 2023 18:13
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Ask your DM
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Jul 28, 2023 18:21
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I wish I had one :c
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Jul 28, 2023 18:23
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Oh DM not DOM my bad whoopsie
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Jul 28, 2023 18:23
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verbal enema posted:Where do Ogres come from
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Jul 28, 2023 18:27
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Lmao, researching this more than the amount needed for a throwaway joke and finding out l'Academie contrarily states Ogre actually comes from Hungarians being monsters.
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Jul 28, 2023 18:32
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lol tbh
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Jul 28, 2023 18:37
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People be like "in history folks thought tops were manly but bottoms were not AND THEREFORE OBVIOUSLY bottoms got loving murdered by default all the time" 1. that doesn't necessarily follow, please show your work 2. even right here and now in current time today this attitude continues and a ton of people are openly homophobic every day but bottoms are not being murdered constantly without survival, however in history we assume that they must have been
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Jul 28, 2023 18:40
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Much like Sparta's helots, bottoms outnumber tops 10 to 1 and must have their numbers culled.
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Jul 28, 2023 18:44
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Like maybe in history most of the time if you were gay everybody just made fun of you a lot. Maybe it wasn't always straight to murder. Even if society hates you on principle your neighbors might get well be willing to overlook your proclivities because they know you. This is a thing that has happened and continues to happen but when we as a group look at the past it's just "ah medieval homophobia definitely means automatic ultramurder." Like the exact same thing Naomi Whatseefuck did with the verdict of death recorded
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Jul 28, 2023 18:51
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InediblePenguin posted:People be like "in history folks thought tops were manly but bottoms were not AND THEREFORE OBVIOUSLY bottoms got loving murdered by default all the time" Who said it was murder? The whole point is it wasn’t socially acceptable. Which could lead to murder but doesn’t have to be. Though there is a case that survives from the Republican era Roman military where that is exactly how it played out and the killer was presented as a hero
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Jul 28, 2023 19:02
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cf "the lovers of modena" buried hand in hand some 1500 years ago, who were assumed to be a cishet couple but it turns out theyre both biologically male
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Jul 28, 2023 19:06
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Woolie Wool posted:Gandalf? They would have murdered the gently caress out of Gandalf. me and my friends would have killed gandalf with hammers I can tell you that much
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Jul 28, 2023 19:11
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Carthag Tuek posted:cf "the lovers of modena" buried hand in hand some 1500 years ago, who were assumed to be a cishet couple but it turns out theyre both biologically male Just guys being bros
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Jul 28, 2023 19:33
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Six feet deep cause they were gay
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Jul 28, 2023 19:36
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Marcade posted:Six feet deep cause they were gay if they were killed for being gay, i dont think they'd be buried as a couple like that. that shows respect
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Jul 28, 2023 19:47
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It's a (stupid) reference to an old vine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvjlAB06p-g
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Jul 28, 2023 19:50
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Marcade posted:It's a (stupid) reference to an old vine. hah okay i forgot that the 2 bros were specifically "5 feet apart". kind of a deep cut tho lol man i miss vine
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Jul 28, 2023 19:59
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CharlestheHammer posted:Who said it was murder? Woolie Wool posted:The ancient Norse warrior elite did not have any concept of "homosexuality", much of what we consider gay is stuff they would disapprove of, but to them it would be "argr", which is betraying the Bro Code by letting oneself be penetrated--so tops are OK, war rape of dudes is badass, but bottoms are reprehensible and equivalent to wizards, who are also unmanly and evil.
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Jul 28, 2023 23:10
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Wasn’t All The King’s Men based on the career of Huey Long? He wasn’t a fascist per se (he kinda defies modern political labels) but definitely was an authoritarian willing to illegally use the force of the state to get his way
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Jul 28, 2023 23:57
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I remember someone posted something once about a term for dwarf magic and I cannot find the term anymore and if it was something from real folklore or if it was just some gaming or lotr made up stuff. Maybe it started with a D? I'm only posting it here because of recent topics
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Jul 29, 2023 00:13
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Milo and POTUS posted:I remember someone posted something once about a term for dwarf magic and I cannot find the term anymore and if it was something from real folklore or if it was just some gaming or lotr made up stuff. Maybe it started with a D? I'm only posting it here because of recent topics dwarves are just little people, theyre fine. its the finns who do weird troll magic
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Jul 29, 2023 00:27
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