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glitchwraith posted:I don't really get the confusion regarding Moira's motivation. She had her potential immortality taken from her by the very people she'd spent centuries trying to help (albeit, after concluding that the only way to help them was by giving them paradise and then eventually removing their ability to make more mutants). And that's ignoring what uploading her consciousness to a computer while in a state of vengefulness and desperation did to her psyche. That said, I agree her new role as villain is far less interesting than her previous status as the secret fourth shaper of mutant destiny. Yeah I get why she's mad NOW but the way she did this life with the intent on joining the computer is weird to me given how much she sacrificed to get the info to destroy the computer in life 9. Or is your read on the situation (which may be better than mine) that she did eveverything she did in life 9 specifically to get her the information to know when Nimrod was born to aid him? As for her immortality, well, I dunno we know the power erase gun can be reversed and even if it couldn't Apocalypse has shown the ability to turn back on powers that have been turned off a million different ways. I've always thought that it eventually that gets turned back on again.
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Jul 28, 2023 21:26
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Rick posted:Yeah I get why she's mad NOW but the way she did this life with the intent on joining the computer is weird to me given how much she sacrificed to get the info to destroy the computer in life 9. Moira is flying by the seat of her pants a little. I think she figured she always had an ace up her sleeve; if things looked real bad, well, she had a drastic way of save-scumming. Getting depowered threw a wrench into her long-term planning and she's had to make a lot of moves out of desperation, among them cooperating with Orchis. Which is its own mess, because Nimrod and Karima are most definitely not aligned with Orchis, and I don't think Moira is aligned with either of them. Nimrod could either be essential or a hindrance towards Moira's goal of humanity surviving long enough to be Phalanxed. They're working alongside each other at the moment, but I think Stasis is really the only major player who isn't preparing to stab the other in the back.
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Jul 28, 2023 22:09
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Stasis is all about humanity, and we've seen him dealing privately with Orbis Stellaris and Mother Righteous. Plus he's a Sinister. He's gonna stab anyone and everyone in the back if that's what it takes to reach Dominion.
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Jul 28, 2023 22:11
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Rick posted:Yeah I get why she's mad NOW but the way she did this life with the intent on joining the computer is weird to me given how much she sacrificed to get the info to destroy the computer in life 9. My read is that she lost hope. When exactly, I'm not sure, as it's hard to keep her personal timeline straight, but somewhere between life 9 and Krakoa. This might be head canon, but I assume none of her life ten plans where entirely set in stone. Her "sterilization" plan may have been more of an idle thought that she considered as a back up plan while giving Krakoa a chance. Would certainly explain why she hadn't implemented it yet. But as she grew increasingly isolated and frustrated with Xavier and Magneto, that backup plan became more and more appealing. The sad thing is that she was ultimately wrong about he machines always winning, given the future the Omega Sentinel witnessed. Rick posted:As for her immortality, well, I dunno we know the power erase gun can be reversed and even if it couldn't Apocalypse has shown the ability to turn back on powers that have been turned off a million different ways. I've always thought that it eventually that gets turned back on again. That might be possible if her organic body was still alive, but it's long dead. Moira XI is a fully technological being with no way of getting her old powers back. While I'm sure they could clone or resurrect her old body, I don't see the mutants or the writers doing that, because her powers then become a reset button for any progress the mutants actually make.
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Jul 28, 2023 22:14
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Codependent Poster posted:Stasis is all about humanity, and we've seen him dealing privately with Orbis Stellaris and Mother Righteous. Plus he's a Sinister. He's gonna stab anyone and everyone in the back if that's what it takes to reach Dominion. Yeah, that's a good point. I was trying to remember if we'd seen him hanging out with the other Sinisters, but maybe he looks too much like Ol' Diamond Head to stand out. I forgot about the whole Dominion thing, too. There's a lot of places we could go during/after Fall of X. glitchwraith posted:My read is that she lost hope. When exactly, I'm not sure, as it's hard to keep her personal timeline straight, but somewhere between life 9 and Krakoa. This might be head canon, but I assume none of her life ten plans where entirely set in stone. Her "sterilization" plan may have been more of an idle thought that she considered as a back up plan while giving Krakoa a chance. Would certainly explain why she hadn't implemented it yet. But as she grew increasingly isolated and frustrated with Xavier and Magneto, that backup plan became more and more appealing. It does seem like Life X was a kind of greatest hits for Moira. Instead of allying with Xavier OR Magneto OR Apocalypse she brings them together to yet another mutant nation, while also working on a mutant cure. All we're really missing is her murdering the Trasks and the Sentinels, but the X-Men kind of do that as a matter of course anyway. It's fun trying to tease out exactly what the original intent of her character is. We know that Hickman didn't originally plan for her to be working counter to mutantkind, although I suspect she was always intended to have her own agenda. She held a grudge against Destiny for murdering her (fair), but she also didn't want precognitive mutants around because they would be able to know that it's all for nothing, that mutants always lose. With that in mind, I think turning her into Doomer Moira is actually a pretty logical move, but I do wonder what the original plan was for her. There was that Moira book teased that some people suspected was going to be written by Warren Ellis before he got outed for being a creep.
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Jul 28, 2023 22:30
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Codependent Poster posted:Stasis is all about humanity, and we've seen him dealing privately with Orbis Stellaris and Mother Righteous. Plus he's a Sinister. He's gonna stab anyone and everyone in the back if that's what it takes to reach Dominion. My issue with Stasis is that they haven't really given any inkling of how Orchis ties into a plan to reach Dominion through human means. Sure they kill off mutants but what next? How do you contend with the competing magic and cosmic means to Dominion? He didn't have a chance in the Sinister timeline and I don't know what's changed since the return to 616. My other issue is that I do genuinely love Sinister so it's lame that we are following his knockoff right after he got reframed as a mutant Cassandra. Maybe we'll see Xavier unearth him and Toad as necessary (make that mistake again!) allies on an occupied Krakoa La Louve Rouge fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jul 28, 2023 |
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Jul 28, 2023 22:42
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La Louve Rouge posted:My other issue is that I do genuinely love Sinister so it's lame that we are following his knockoff right after he got reframed as a mutant Cassandra. Maybe we'll see Xavier unearth him and Toad as necessary (make that mistake again!) allies on an occupied Krakoa Kamala is actually a sinister
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Jul 28, 2023 22:49
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think about it this way somewhere in Russia, Mikhail Rasputin is extremely tilted that his years of undetectable plotting and scheming to get his controlled agent in a position of power to really undermine Krakoa's power was all just thrown out the window by a big pink robot flying in out of nowhere and ownzoning the island
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Jul 28, 2023 23:13
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Alaois posted:think about it this way I do like this.
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Jul 28, 2023 23:59
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stasis is intent on being nathaniel essex, a scumbag victorian scientist. he's different from sinister, who is intent on changing himself radically as necessary. i don't think orbis is terribly distinct, by comparison. and then there's righteous, who mucks up the entire premise because she's the clone of a different person with her own personality who is still furthering the original essex's goals for some reason. it's like if madelyne pryor joined up with sinister at the end of inferno.
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Jul 29, 2023 00:04
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glitchwraith posted:My read is that she lost hope. When exactly, I'm not sure, as it's hard to keep her personal timeline straight, but somewhere between life 9 and Krakoa. This might be head canon, but I assume none of her life ten plans where entirely set in stone. Her "sterilization" plan may have been more of an idle thought that she considered as a back up plan while giving Krakoa a chance. Would certainly explain why she hadn't implemented it yet. But as she grew increasingly isolated and frustrated with Xavier and Magneto, that backup plan became more and more appealing. That reading of HoX #2 is strange considering it's stated that the timeline flows in a particular direction until she makes a choice to disrupt it. And her individual lives are presented as specific choices. It steals her agency as a character to suggest she was winging it. And I think the Omega DOFP twist was intentional irony: Moira's "we always lose" isn't true and it certainly could be inferred that Inferno is what ended that future (which is mostly Mystique's fault). I'll also say that if this many people, including me, are still trying to understand why she went apeshit then maybe it wasn't presented in a clear way.
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Jul 29, 2023 00:22
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She’s winging it in that she does not know what the results will be of many decisions. Sinister is also of the opinion that her sample size of 10 is far too few to make any grand conclusions on.
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Jul 29, 2023 00:26
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The main question at this point is: Adam is the inevitable fifth Joker/Crown suit Sinister, and the one who achieved Dominion, right?
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Jul 29, 2023 01:01
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okay I was complaining that all this came out of nowhere and was just crammed into one issue so orchis showing out of nowhere and completely destroying the mutants felt really unearned. apparently i have to take those words back because this was all happening in... IRON MAN?!  
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Jul 29, 2023 08:13
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Oh yeah Duggan's current Invincible Iron Man run is basically an X-book and it's nice to see one of the flatscan heroes be a good friend to the mutants
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Jul 29, 2023 08:55
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That’s a genuinely unexpected development as I don’t associate Tony with any of this poo poo as a rule, he’s probably the Avenger mainstay with as little connection or interaction with mutant stuff as they come.
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Jul 29, 2023 09:18
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glitchwraith posted:My read is that she lost hope. When exactly, I'm not sure, as it's hard to keep her personal timeline straight, but somewhere between life 9 and Krakoa. This might be head canon, but I assume none of her life ten plans where entirely set in stone. Her "sterilization" plan may have been more of an idle thought that she considered as a back up plan while giving Krakoa a chance. Would certainly explain why she hadn't implemented it yet. But as she grew increasingly isolated and frustrated with Xavier and Magneto, that backup plan became more and more appealing. This does make sense, I think you make a good point. Sentinel Red posted:That’s a genuinely unexpected development as I don’t associate Tony with any of this poo poo as a rule, he’s probably the Avenger mainstay with as little connection or interaction with mutant stuff as they come. Pretty nice bit of irony for human that's completely integrated himself into various machines.
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Jul 29, 2023 10:45
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It is a bummer that Krakoa is crushed (whether permanently or just for some time) by a cabal of literal moustache twirling villains that say things like WE HACKED YOUR MEDICINE BWAHA instead of a proper internal crisis
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Jul 29, 2023 13:41
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Part of my read (and this may not actually bear out in the text itself) is that all of the internal crises are precisely what allowed Orchis to make this giant blow. If the Council was doing its job of governing as opposed to engaging in palace intrigue big and small, they might have focused more on Orchis. If X-Force had been in stable hands as opposed to Beast Beasting and then X-Force dealing with Beast and his messes, they might have focused more on Orchis. Brand having her own agenda and messing up a bunch of the Arrako/space initiatives was kind of the same thing, the X-Men set up a base of operations in NYC's Treehouse to be public heroes and then spend an inordinate amount of their time Not in New York City. Krakoa has known about Orchis and has been trying to stop Orchis since Krakoa was founded, and they were positioned as a major threat from the start. It's just a major threat the Council and X-Force have repeatedly pushed to the side to deal with other threats, internal and external.
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Jul 29, 2023 16:13
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Overall I was enjoying the setup that the issue made for the Fall of X era, but that "everyone that went to Arakko was actually murdered" final plot twist was too much. Maybe it's a fakeout, but what a bummer. It really feels like in a year or so, we'll be back at the mansion.
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Jul 29, 2023 16:33
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Charles did only begin to think he was sending everyone to their deaths after Curse cursed him, and Destiny walked into the portal willingly. They'll be fine
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Jul 29, 2023 16:37
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Edge & Christian posted:Part of my read (and this may not actually bear out in the text itself) is that all of the internal crises are precisely what allowed Orchis to make this giant blow. If the Council was doing its job of governing as opposed to engaging in palace intrigue big and small, they might have focused more on Orchis. If X-Force had been in stable hands as opposed to Beast Beasting and then X-Force dealing with Beast and his messes, they might have focused more on Orchis. Brand having her own agenda and messing up a bunch of the Arrako/space initiatives was kind of the same thing, the X-Men set up a base of operations in NYC's Treehouse to be public heroes and then spend an inordinate amount of their time Not in New York City. Krakoa has known about Orchis and has been trying to stop Orchis since Krakoa was founded, and they were positioned as a major threat from the start. It's just a major threat the Council and X-Force have repeatedly pushed to the side to deal with other threats, internal and external. I think this is clearly the intended idea, but the execution doesn't sell it. In fact, the biggest thing Orchis does to execute this plan (compromising the Krakoan drugs) is dropped in the middle of this (AFAIK). It just feels like they needed something big and didn't feel like the other stuff they set up was what they wanted so they just threw new poo poo out there.
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Jul 29, 2023 17:29
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Synthbuttrange posted:okay I was complaining that all this came out of nowhere and was just crammed into one issue so orchis showing out of nowhere and completely destroying the mutants felt really unearned. And other books as well. Orchis has been preparing at least since the last Gala, when Stasis went in to tamper with the drugs and was quickly cut away from. The seeds of Hordeculture tampering with the gates, the Stark Sentinels... every Orchis plan has been very slow building over the course of this year. It's definitely not from nowhere. I really liked this issue a lot but I did not enjoy reading it, if that makes sense. Bad things happen to good people. I can't wait for them to crush Orchis. danbanana posted:I think this is clearly the intended idea, but the execution doesn't sell it. Again, it happens in Hellfire Gala 2022. 
Cartridgeblowers fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 29, 2023 |
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Jul 29, 2023 17:44
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If there's one thing you can count on, for how much they gloat about having all the best stuff, krakoas security is probably the worst on the planet
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Jul 29, 2023 19:01
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tom was just having another psychotic break, it happens
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Jul 29, 2023 19:08
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Sentinel Red posted:That’s a genuinely unexpected development as I don’t associate Tony with any of this poo poo as a rule, he’s probably the Avenger mainstay with as little connection or interaction with mutant stuff as they come. he got dragged into it kicking and screaming. the way feilong hosed him, tony never had any choice than to side with the mutants.
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Jul 29, 2023 19:18
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Jean telling Angelica to throw Hank under the bus if needed was my fav part of the whole issue. “Everyone will believe you” lmao
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Jul 29, 2023 19:24
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La Louve Rouge posted:Oh yeah Duggan's current Invincible Iron Man run is basically an X-book and it's nice to see one of the flatscan heroes be a good friend to the mutants I wish there had been any external indication this was the case though. I just had happened to decide to read through it because someone mentioned Emma was in the latest issue, and stumbled onto these panels while I was doing so. The main place orchis was talking about making a big assault on the gala wasn't even in an official x line book! The newest issue even has a panel foreshadowing a deal between fisk and frost after the gala attack  So of course now I have to keep up on iron man to keep up on X-Men site fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jul 29, 2023 |
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Jul 29, 2023 19:36
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If I had to make a completely random guess based on nothing but vibes, it's that one of the themes of the upcoming era is going to be a...not really a shift away from mutant supremacy per se, but a greater focus on solidarity with ally groups to further bolster the mutant unity that already exists. As recent issues have shown, hateful ideology is not just going to stop with the mutants; it's going to grind everyone under its heel. So it feels like we're going to see more of other Marvel properties getting drawn into the Orchis situation, whether it's with humans like Iron Man, or the Uncanny Avengers, or now with Kamala. "A savior of all the tribes." Here's how the Inhumans can still win- (1/420)
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Jul 29, 2023 19:54
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danbanana posted:I think this is clearly the intended idea, but the execution doesn't sell it. Orchis screwing with the drugs had been set up well in advance. We see them getting ready with the drugs and the gates in X-Men 22 back in May.    
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jul 29, 2023 |
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Jul 29, 2023 20:22
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That hellfire gala thing was a heck of an issue to come back to X-men on after many years away. I don't have the context to judge if it's good or bad, but I enjoyed it enough to sub to all the X-men books and have my lgs pull some of the August stuff for me. Is this going to stick long enough to give us a No Man's Land style era or will we be back to status quo by Christmas? The genocide thing is a fakeout. Marvel isn't cool enough to go through with it.
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Jul 30, 2023 21:16
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We got probably at five to six months of the mutants with their back against the wall. After that we’ll probably start seeing them get some wins against Orchis.
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Jul 30, 2023 21:24
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I think most of, if not all, of the new books coming out of this are announced as mini-series. So 5-6 months seems about right, and they've already promoted New X-Men in 2024. Since they said there will be more about that in March, figure that solicitations will place that around February or March and that's about when I think we'll move on from Fall of X.
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Jul 30, 2023 21:28
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What is Mikhail's beef with his siblings and mutantkind in general?
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Jul 31, 2023 03:57
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Gymer posted:What is Mikhail's beef with his siblings and mutantkind in general? He's crazy. I don't think there was any real reason given for his actions in the Krakoa era though, other than Russia number 1. Which doesn't really fit his character, but whatever. I think it's one of the worst storylines going on and the fact that it was completely ignored in the Hellfire Gala issue kind of leads me to believe I'm not alone in that opinion.
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Jul 31, 2023 04:12
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Codependent Poster posted:He's crazy. Yeah, Mikhail in general has never felt super fleshed out. I believe he comes out of nowhere in the 90's but I'm probably wrong but reading the comics at the time it just felt like "Oh, Piotr has an older brother now and he's evil with that poorly defined 90's powerset mutants have."
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Jul 31, 2023 04:13
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which krakoa era book actually starts the mind control plot
site fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 04:18
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site posted:which krakoa era book actually starts the mild control plot X-Force
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Jul 31, 2023 04:21
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mikhail has always been intent on causing as much death and misery as possible. the only part that's new is that he no longer has good intentions.
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Jul 31, 2023 09:26
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I find the actual scheme Mikhail is doing to be interesting; the Chronicler is an incredibly neat power, and the recent issue of Immortal spotlighting Colossus which makes it clear he's aware that he's being manipulated but can't do anything about it is really horrifying. However, Mikhail just isn't that interesting of a villain, and Colossus has had such a rough time of it for so long that I really wish they'd gone with somebody else to be the puppet. He was having an alright time in the Whedon Astonishing and I think in one of those mid-2010s X-Force spinoffs, but besides that it's been straight misery since like 1987.
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Jul 31, 2023 12:28
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