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The worst thing about hoteling is that everyone sits in the same place every day anyways, except now every time someone new comes in it feels like you’re socially renegotiating your desk arrangement. I can be pretty social person, but it wore on me. One director explained the upper management’s reasoning as, “the eventual goal is to have more people than desks, so you’re forced to sometimes sit at shared tables.” Then he just kinda shrugged his shoulders and I knew that he didn’t understand it either.
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Jul 28, 2023 23:00
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Yeah, I turned down a decent offer once because they had a first come first serve desk policy. Worst was they had more people than desks and told me it wasn't a problem if you got there 30 minutes early. Even during my tour tons of people were working on like laptops at random chairs.
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Jul 28, 2023 23:06
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Volguus posted:Jesus you people, you're actively looking for human interaction? WFHs best perks were that human interaction was no longer mandated. If I could get food and internet on the top of the mountain in a cave ... that's where I'd be. Gonna get real here for a second, because this is a meme in this community and I think it's super unhealthy and we should talk about it, because depression is a massive problem in society right now and this absolutely contributes to it. Like yeah, we've all seen Office Space, we've all seen dozens of movies and tv shows about how terrible humans are and how devs want to just hide in our coding caverns. That's not really how humans are meant to work, and for the majority of folks that's going to lead to pretty severe mental health problems. Humans are inherently social animals, and even introverts or aneurotypical folks still have socialization needs. prom candy posted:I think if you work remote it's even more important to have an active social calendar. I'm out of the house 2-3x/week playing sports, I live really close to my parents and sister, I jam with a band once a week, and I try to book lunches and stuff with friends fairly often. This is a good example of what healthy WFH stuff looks like. Note all the other human interaction that prom candy is referencing here. Am I saying that you should kiss your boss's rear end and be one of those hoorah work is family types? gently caress no, that's insane. But I've worked a lot of jobs, at lovely places, and I've always been able to find at least some level of camaraderie with my fellow workers to build human connections, and Covid absolutely wrecked a lot of people's habits in this space. Obvious caveat: Yeah, there are hermits, and other folks that literally would be satisfied sitting in a box and receiving instructions and food under the door; if that's literally you then congratulations: you're absolutely not neurotypical and that behavior might still not be really healthy for you either. lifg posted:One director explained the upper management’s reasoning as, “the eventual goal is to have more people than desks, so you’re forced to sometimes sit at shared tables.” How utterly loving lovely. At least they were honest.
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Jul 28, 2023 23:10
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Software development is a collaborative activity.
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Jul 28, 2023 23:12
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Yeah I tell people how dumb they are.
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Jul 28, 2023 23:13
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Other, way less nice possibility: If someone has never worked a job where they got along with your coworkers, maybe they're the rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 28, 2023 23:21
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Isn't via chat or video meetings plenty of interaction? Yes, we have to interact with people since we need them and they need us. The internet allows us to do so from half a world away. Falcon2001 posted:Other, way less nice possibility: If someone has never worked a job where they got along with your coworkers, maybe they're the rear end in a top hat. There's a world of difference between "getting along" and "preferring that you are not physically there". I always got along with everyone since I'm only an rear end in a top hat on the interwebs (I think ... I could be wrong). But working from home was the highlight of the pandemic, and I hope the motherfuckers who stand to profit from the office real-estate who buy stories in the papers on the benefits of getting back to the office will die in a fire. Even those articles are light on those benefits, to put it mildly. Basically all the articles that I've seen and read were 100% easily disproven wrong.
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Jul 28, 2023 23:50
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Falcon2001 posted:Gonna get real here for a second, because this is a meme in this community and I think it's super unhealthy and we should talk about it, because depression is a massive problem in society right now and this absolutely contributes to it. This guy 100% owns an empty office building
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Jul 29, 2023 03:40
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mark immune posted:This guy 100% owns an empty office building This isn't some 'PEOPLE DONT WANT TO COME INTO THE OFFICE' rant, which I addressed when I quoted prom candy; you want to WFH? That's great man, you do you; but you should still be friendly with your coworkers. This isn't about how you should be kowtowing to assholes in suits and their dumbass desires, it's about dealing with your peers. My point is the whole 'ugh I have to TALK to people' poo poo in our industry is basically self-destructive bullshit and leaning into it is only going to make you more miserable.
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Jul 29, 2023 03:48
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Yes, but have you considered this: no
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Jul 29, 2023 05:12
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You mean shitposting on The Something Awful Forums isn’t normal socialization?
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Jul 29, 2023 05:18
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Falcon2001 posted:My point is the whole 'ugh I have to TALK to people' poo poo in our industry is basically self-destructive bullshit and leaning into it is only going to make you more miserable. Have you considered that some people genuinely enjoy working in silence with minimal interaction most of the time? I work best that way and enjoy it immensely when I can, which unfortunately isn't as often as I'd like. Meanwhile my wife cannot deal with no interaction jobs, to the point that she has explicitly opted out of corporate desk jobs for her own mental health. COVID was fine for me, it took a solid 6 months for me to start to get a little stir crazy. She ended up in inpatient psych care twice. My point is that everyone is different and has differing levels of tolerance and enjoyment for isolation vs socializing. Most people can articulate their preferences. New Yorp New Yorp fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Jul 29, 2023 |
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Jul 29, 2023 06:58
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The best thing is when you have someone who likes to talk all day share an office with someone who likes it to be quiet. That is super productive!
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Jul 29, 2023 13:28
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Talking to coworkers and seeing more of them than their heads and shoulders on Zoom owns Never gonna begrudge people for working remote and I’ve got plenty of coworkers who’ve said they’re never coming back to the office and good for them. But if I was offered a 100% remote job with no options for a communal office space I’d really have to think hard about it. During the first year of Covid I was working from my apartment and going to the grocery store as my big social outing of the week was driving me crazy. Of course I live alone with a cat so maybe if I’d had a roommate I’d have felt less terrible
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Jul 29, 2023 13:32
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I am not gonna say that I was happy during COVID, because you know, global pandemic and effects it had on my kids, relatives and general population, but I did not miss going to office even once during the ~2 years before the society decided that covid is actually over.
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Jul 29, 2023 15:07
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Falcon2001 posted:This isn't some 'PEOPLE DONT WANT TO COME INTO THE OFFICE' rant, which I addressed when I quoted prom candy; you want to WFH? That's great man, you do you; but you should still be friendly with your coworkers. This isn't about how you should be kowtowing to assholes in suits and their dumbass desires, it's about dealing with your peers. I agree for 2 main reasons. On the brain health side, while it is true that some people (including me) could be very happy going for a month without actually talking to anyone, it is also true that depression can start to hit in isolation and people don't realize it or can't pull themselves out until they're wasting away in bed because they don't see the point of getting up. Diagnosing yourself is tough, so it is important to have outside contact that can speak up if you seem to be spiraling. On the work side, you need to have contact with your coworkers, you need to know who they are and vice versa, because that makes it easier for questions and knowledge to happen. If you're in the office, at least you're forced to have some contact with coworkers, even if you hate interacting with people. This is all separate from the absolute poo poo that open offices and remote meetings are. Just absolute poo poo.
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Jul 29, 2023 15:19
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No, you're not allowed to think anything but full remote is ok. Only full remote is ok, anything else is brain worms, because I really like being fully remote and I do not understand why anyone might not find it as great as I do!
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Jul 29, 2023 16:12
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Ok, but we're required to have two (2) hours of small talk with coworkers every day. Cameras will be used to make sure you are smiling
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Jul 29, 2023 16:22
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My favorite part about camera required meetings is I normally turn mine off after like 5 minutes and nobody ever says anything because it’s a dumb meeting with the entire company and why do you need to see everyone’s face at once
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Jul 29, 2023 16:28
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I just hang out with my family and friends outside of work for my needed socialization
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Jul 29, 2023 17:30
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Macichne Leainig posted:My favorite part about camera required meetings is I normally turn mine off after like 5 minutes and nobody ever says anything because it’s a dumb meeting with the entire company and why do you need to see everyone’s face at once Yeah, for some reason, my work is always all "remember to turn your cameras on so we can see all of you!" in the meetings where somebody immediately shares their screen. Meanwhile, in our four-person stand-ups, nobody turns their cameras on. I still have never connected a camera 
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Jul 29, 2023 18:36
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I had a product manager reach out and try to buy a webcam on my behalf for a while because I didn’t attend stand ups with my camera on Anyway we reorged and I don’t interact with that PM anymore 
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Jul 29, 2023 18:57
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I would just be like, "Sorry! Out of USB ports!"
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Jul 29, 2023 19:35
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poo poo with company YubiKeys and everything you aren’t even wrong 
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Jul 29, 2023 20:00
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Lol extroverts are obnoxious. I've legitimately never been happier than WFH with no one paying any attention to me "Oooh you must be depressed humans were made to be forced to hang out with strangers!" gently caress off
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Jul 29, 2023 23:08
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Volmarias posted:No, you're not allowed to think anything but full remote is ok. Only full remote is ok, anything else is brain worms, because I really like being fully remote and I do not understand why anyone might not find it as great as I do! If you can't see the line between "I enjoy working hybrid, I like making friends with my coworkers" (like that one guy up thread no one took any issue with) and "you MUST enjoy socializing regularly with your coworkers it is necessary for your mental health" and the resultant backlash then I think you might just have a victim complex
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Jul 29, 2023 23:11
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The problem is that they want me to be in the office with them. Fine if people want to spend extra unpaid time commuting, but if they need to force me to be there for the office not to be empty, maybe they are in the minority.
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Jul 29, 2023 23:40
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I don't think anyone said you must enjoy socializing regularly with your coworkers. They said if you're not socializing regularly with coworkers you should make sure to be socializing regularly with somebody because isolation is generally not good for you.
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Jul 30, 2023 00:47
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If you are using work as some kind of band aid fix for human interaction then you have a serious problem in your life.
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Jul 30, 2023 07:50
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Ah yes a band aid of human interactions with people you spend a third of a day with.
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Jul 30, 2023 08:57
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Yes a band aid. It wouldn't matter if you work from home or work in an office if you had a healthy social life. If you find you work better collaborating in person then fine. But if you 'need' an office for human interaction needs then that's something you should try and work on. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Jul 30, 2023 |
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Jul 30, 2023 10:10
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I love working from home but there are just some things that work better in person, like Retros and 121s about certain topics. I go into the office once a week and that's plenty for me, not to socialise with my coworkers, they're not my friends. But just to get a bit of chat about what's gong on that you miss fully remote where all communication is very intentional. The other part that's a challenge working from home is on boarding to an extent. For the folk that worked here before it's great they already know everyone and it's all very easy. For the people who joined fully remote and can't go to the office it's a struggle for that personal connection which makes for a easy working relationship. Especially for junior engineers who perhaps don't have to confidence.
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Jul 30, 2023 10:33
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In an attempt to steer the conversation away from the derail I created, where are folks using for job hunting these days? I haven't actually had to use a job board in like, twelve years so I'm not sure what's good anymore. I'm also reaching out to my contacts and the normal stuff, but figured I'd see what good looks like for tech jobs these days.
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Jul 30, 2023 20:44
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Awful though it is here at least LinkedIn is pretty strong. I've used it from the recruiter side and the tools are pretty slick, sourced some decent candidates from it.
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Jul 30, 2023 20:47
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https://www.workatastartup.com/ if you’re into remote work and owning a lottery ticket.
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Jul 30, 2023 21:08
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Hey goons, my search for freelancing work has paid off and this week I'm going to be talking with an old friend about contracting for his business. The problem is, the company I'm working for currently has language in the contract saying "X company does not permit freelancing or work for other companies unless I obtain the permission of the executive leadership team member of my organization". I'm not quite sure what that means but I presume it means the CTO as I'm an engineer. I have a 1-on-1 with my manager tomorrow but I'm not sure if I should broach that subject. I might ask around first, but it's probably not a good idea to move forward with the freelance work unless I know I have the OK from my company. ...or maybe just don't tell them?
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Jul 31, 2023 05:57
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Honestly as long as it does not affect your normal work, I doubt they’d even know. I can’t imagine they’re actively looking for that kind of thing
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Jul 31, 2023 06:28
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When I started freelancing in 2010 (which has led to me being self employed since 2011) I wrote to management to let them know as a formality, mainly because my lawyer dad was worried about some companies that try to claim any ip developed by their employees as their own even if it’s created after hours without using company resources. HR just replied and highlighted some clauses in my contract that said I can’t work for competitors or direct clients or something within 6 months of leaving, which was fine as I never planned on working in that industry again anyways. Best to mention it just so it’s on the record and they can’t complain about it later. You could also white lie and say you’re planning on building some apps in your free time which you might monetise later and want to let them know upfront.
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Jul 31, 2023 07:30
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Thanks for the advice. I reached out to a mentor and he said the same thing: the company shouldn't really care if I'm freelancing for someone who's not a competitor. I should concern myself more with ensuring that the contract is fair and makes sense legally. I did tell my manager before that I was driving with Lyft and he was OK with that then. I'll let him know I'm freelancing and it shouldn't be a problem.
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Aug 1, 2023 02:24
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America Inc. posted:Thanks for the advice. I reached out to a mentor and he said the same thing: the company shouldn't really care if I'm freelancing for someone who's not a competitor. I should concern myself more with ensuring that the contract is fair and makes sense legally. Also depends on the industry. I do consulting and if I consulted in the same area as my expertise I'd be poaching potential clients.
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