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I'm not sure there is a lot of reason to use the big skips because they contain far less garbage than a decent "small" garbage hauler by default. Sometimes you have to but I think just using the small ones directly is preferred when possible. Just slap down some bin yards near shops/big garbage generators to increase collection efficiency. E: I am liking the new yankee diesel trains that can hit max speed, makes electrification less important. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Jul 23, 2023 |
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Jul 23, 2023 10:21
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Sorry I meant for importing waste from the border specifically
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Jul 23, 2023 12:14
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Has anyone tried W&R with GeForce now? I'm on vacation and grabbed my work laptop (Lenovo ThinkPad) instead of my personal laptop (slightly larger Lenovo ThinkPad) on the way out the door. Does it work? Do mods come through if you get them through the workshop? I'm not going to be back home for another 7 weeks or so and ought to have some downtime in the evenings.
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Jul 23, 2023 17:41
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure there is a lot of reason to use the big skips because they contain far less garbage than a decent "small" garbage hauler by default. I've been thinking along the same lines but came to the opposite conclusion - not sure why you would bother with the small bins/trucks at all. Starting in the mid-70s you get small trucks with larger capacity, but in order to use that capacity they need to string together numerous container stands, whereas the large trucks are guaranteed to have a full load at all times, and only need to visit a single stand to get one. Moreover the large container stands have a vastly larger capacity, giving you a larger buffer and no demand spikes. The only real advantage of the smaller bins is that they can utilize footpath connections, and that the small versions have a smaller footprint. But if you want to do residential sorting you can't use the small ones anyhow.
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Jul 23, 2023 20:06
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I really can't imagine trying to place a road connected waste area for every single building... I've generally found that with judicious use of the small container areas in locations of high occupancy/garbage generation, you can ensure that you're picking up full truckloads from them the majority of the time and then also you don't need to bother with roads very much, as the small wagons can pick up outliers.
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Jul 24, 2023 16:11
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Are there any decent crash courses on the garbage mechanics yet? I've started a game up a couple times, looked at the combination of "going through early game realistic" and "learning garbage", and kept deciding "nah I'll do this later" - if it's well-documented somewhere that may at least somewhat ease things. It looks like the wiki is fairly updated, but it wasn't especially clear on how you structure things for success. ...I also need to find a better map to start with...
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Jul 24, 2023 16:20
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SkyeAuroline posted:Are there any decent crash courses on the garbage mechanics yet? I've started a game up a couple times, looked at the combination of "going through early game realistic" and "learning garbage", and kept deciding "nah I'll do this later" - if it's well-documented somewhere that may at least somewhat ease things. It looks like the wiki is fairly updated, but it wasn't especially clear on how you structure things for success. yeah I've spent the morning experiencing this very thing (not actually on realistic mode but trying to minimize magic money building but also playing a populated map which I don't usually do)
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Jul 24, 2023 16:33
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SkyeAuroline posted:Are there any decent crash courses on the garbage mechanics yet? I've started a game up a couple times, looked at the combination of "going through early game realistic" and "learning garbage", and kept deciding "nah I'll do this later" - if it's well-documented somewhere that may at least somewhat ease things. It looks like the wiki is fairly updated, but it wasn't especially clear on how you structure things for success. It's actually very forgiving early game and doesn't require much infrastructure to get a town off the ground. Just ensure that you have some type of container stand in range of every building, and then the correct type of garbage truck assigned to a technical office will automatically collect it. You can have the technical office trucks drop the waste off at an intermediate storage (transfer point or dumps), or just take it directly to the border. The cost of exporting waste is negligible, and it's the increased customs traffic that will eventually incentivize you to find some other solution. The one caveat early is to keep an eye out for buildings that produce hazardous waste, like the hospital. You probably want to use an industrial container stand to keep that separated, and if you're storing it anywhere make sure it's a good distance away from any residences. Like I said you don't need to worry about any treatment/sorting/disposal infrastructure right off the bat, but when you do decide to build some of it I recommend keeping a save with unlimited money/instant building to test any infrastructure you intend to build on your realistic map. Incredibly useful habit in general. From a quick search this reddit post goes into slightly more detail, which is all you need to get started https://old.reddit.com/r/Workers_And_Resources/comments/149fcg9/a_short_guide_to_the_0899_waste_and_research/
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Jul 24, 2023 17:04
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Your main issue with garbage is getting rid of it, collecting it is quite easy if you just drop some normal garbage trucks in a technical services. Only outliers are things like shops and especially hotels will generate a lot of garbage, so putting a container stand will allow it to build up more before it needs collecting. Getting rid of it is tricky mostly due to throughput being an issue and the incinerator is super polluting, but I've just been shipping it out from a dump with a rail connection.
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Jul 24, 2023 17:07
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Man the vehicle replacement gets to be a pretty significant cost over time. As vehicles age they get repaired less and less each maintenence cycle, at about 30 years they're basically unusable, so if you do a 1960 start that can be a pretty nasty shock in the '90s (imagine that happening to a soviet country) and the costs to get rid of a vehicle get pretty loving astronomical if they're 100% hosed.
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Jul 25, 2023 21:54
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OwlFancier posted:Man the vehicle replacement gets to be a pretty significant cost over time. As vehicles age they get repaired less and less each maintenence cycle, at about 30 years they're basically unusable, so if you do a 1960 start that can be a pretty nasty shock in the '90s (imagine that happening to a soviet country) and the costs to get rid of a vehicle get pretty loving astronomical if they're 100% hosed. Its fairly cheap to build and run a scrapyard and the replacement tool can automatically send old vehicles there if you check the box. There's another checkbox on the scrapyard to scrap vehicles for materials, which makes it work slower (I think) but the vehicles are broken down into stuff like steel and metal scrap and components that you can re-use or export. Otherwise it can shred them into mixed waste if you have a reprocessing loop to feed it into.
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Jul 25, 2023 23:04
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It's not a complaint, I like having more costs to think about, and yeah it really does make having those set up pretty important.
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Jul 26, 2023 18:13
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Are there any good guides/tutorials/build orders available for this? Trying to get back into this but I want to play with all the system on this time (I had gasoline and heating turned off, and I think garbage is new?).
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Jul 26, 2023 19:06
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Away all Goats posted:Are there any good guides/tutorials/build orders available for this? Trying to get back into this but I want to play with all the system on this time (I had gasoline and heating turned off, and I think garbage is new?). Here's a short 3 and a half hour long video that will get you to the point of a functional first city and industrial area in realistic mode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAY_6NZETEI
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Jul 26, 2023 20:47
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Also don't be afraid to turn off things and then turn them on as you get in a position to tackle them. You can do that with almost everything I think, except realistic traffic. Honestly getting started with everything on is a nightmare because literally all the systems need to be engaged with from the start for the most part, so your initial setup is just shipping in foreign workers to build a pile of infrastructure and then trying to launch from there. The startup part of the game is the thing I think most needs attention, it really could benefit from a cities:skylines kind of "this mechanic doesn't exist until [x] population level" thing.
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Jul 26, 2023 21:14
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You can turn realistic traffic on during the game. Sometimes it helps resolving gridlocks since there seems to be a grace period where the rules don't matter and vehicles can phase through each other.
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Jul 26, 2023 22:46
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Polikarpov posted:Here's a short 3 and a half hour long video that will get you to the point of a functional first city and industrial area in realistic mode. That looks exactly what I was looking for, thanks
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Jul 26, 2023 22:53
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OwlFancier posted:Also don't be afraid to turn off things and then turn them on as you get in a position to tackle them. You can do that with almost everything I think, except realistic traffic. Bootstrapping your country is one of the more interesting parts for me imo. Full cosmonaut, all max difficulty (except "frequent" fires...), and hard mode money. It really makes you think about what you want vs need.
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Jul 27, 2023 00:28
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Yeah it’s fun when each truck is important
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Jul 27, 2023 00:56
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Fertilizing fields is kinda insane. Hundreds of tons of crops out of a single big field insane. Dedicated DOs for the harvest and rail transport is almost mandatory for big farms. Edit: A big field, a medium field and 3 small fields produced over 900 tons of crops with solid+liquid fertilizer. Polikarpov fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Jul 27, 2023 |
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Jul 27, 2023 01:49
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Realistic mode makes you design fun things you hadn't thought about before either, like a customs-house shunting yard where you can bring all your train cars to send out to the rest of your Republic and stuff. With the "each truck is important" like euphronius said, I find myself doing a lot more saving vehicles at depots and have stuff parked a lot more than in non-realistic where I was more apt to just buy and sell at a whim so long as I was making money. Now with maintenance it makes for neat little facilities storing and repairing vehicles and things. That said absolutely the way to play is to learn piecemeal, though the way I did this for some things like heat was to basically set up a save that was more or less a test case to understand what worked and didn't - a lot of things are best learned like that in this game because even with the added documentation it can be tough to find an answer. For example, I don't think anywhere tells you explicitly that you lose heat the further away you are from a heating plant, so you may not want to build it crazy far away - but also, the heat loss isn't that bad, until it is... A lot of those things you sort of have to learn by testing your intuition. I can't imagine playing this game if you're the type of player who only ever runs one save. I've scrapped pretty huge Republics after taking some pictures to remember it for almost trivial reasons that I didn't want to fix. Polikarpov posted:Fertilizing fields is kinda insane. Hundreds of tons of crops out of a single big field insane. Dedicated DOs for the harvest and rail transport is almost mandatory for big farms. I haven't gotten to this yet but I'm actually okay with this change, playing with the 4x slower calendar mod means I'll get 4x less crops myself. (I haven't gotten my food stuff up in this save yet.)
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Jul 27, 2023 02:16
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So the way waste processing works is a bit odd, and it has a lot of little nuances. Some things I've learned... -You have to have both types of garbage truck and use the right kind of container stand for the building. Residential buildings all use small cans and factories all use large bins. I found this out when the fire station in my industrial area was overflowing with trash because the MO there only had large garbage trucks. -Garbage trucks from a MO can either pickup directly from the building or from a container stand. Container stands are useful because they can serve multiple buildings, have much larger storage and can separate trash by designating bins. (The small stand for small bins cannot have separation). You need to do research for residential waste separation to work. -Waste transfers are really useful. They extend the internal waste storage of the factory they're attached to and can act as pickup and drop-off points. You can manually set each bin in the transfer to a different type of waste. MO garbage trucks will not pickup from a transfer, but they can deliver to them. DOs with large garbage trucks assigned can haul waste between transfers and processing facilities. The main benefit is that because the waste stays in bins the loading speed is very fast. I use a transfer on the edge of my city where my small garbage trucks can drop of waste that a small DO with large garbage trucks then hauls to multiple sites- scrap and plastic to the border, biological to the composting plant, mixed waste to the separator and hazardous directly to the incinerator. -The incinerator (normal and power/heat) can burn the following types of waste- Burnable, Biological, Hazardous, Fertilizer and Other. It converts waste into ash, which has to be output to a dump where it will slowly dissipate naturally. The dissipation rate seems to be less than the incineration rate, so an incinerator working at full production will probably need a DO of garbage trucks to either export the ash or spread it into several different dumps. - Scrap and construction waste from the separation plant become aggregates. Same for plastic waste, which becomes an open storage good. This means they have to be put in storages of that type and hauled by trucks/trains of that type, garbage trucks cant move them anymore. The way this works is a little odd, I think the plant looks for a valid factory connection before converting the waste. I was getting some leakage through the incinerator transfer that I think happened because all the bins in the transfer weren't set to be burnable waste. After I filtered them the flow stopped. - You can use a waste transfer as a middle point between the incinerator and the separation plant to filter, store and also accept burnable waste that the separation plant won't process- I have most of the bins set for mixed waste and a few set for hazardous and fertilizer so I can burn the excess from my composting plant. -The only way to get biological waste is from separation at the garbage stands. Tourists produce a ton of biological waste- mixed waste from hotels is 50% bio compared to normal citizens 20%. Biological waste is processed at the composting plant to make solid fertilizer. -I have seen people complain online that biological waste put in a dump will decompose into fertilizer and "poison" the dump by changing the type of waste stored there. I've been using waste transfers to store and shift biological waste from small garbage trucks to large and it does not seem to decay as long as it stays in a bin. -Regular dumps are cheap but have a terrible loading rate, the claw dumps are more expensive but load quicker and transfers have the fastest rate, modest cost but smallest capacity. The claw dump with rail seems to be the only way to get waste onto a train. -If you somehow get other types of waste in your ash pile you can fix it in a few ways- run it back through the separator -> incinerator loop after you fix your leak, export it or just ignore it and use a different dump. Ash mixed with other waste will still dissipate and leave the non-ash behind. Polikarpov fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Jul 27, 2023 |
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Jul 27, 2023 03:22
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This game is unintentionally a great stimulator of communist apparatchiks, revolutionaries and thugs trying to operate a command economy with zero training.
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Jul 27, 2023 03:50
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Polikarpov posted:So the way waste processing works is a bit odd, and it has a lot of little nuances. Some things I've learned... You’re doing gods work, comrade. I wasn’t deep enough to figure out some of these myself but you answered a dozen questions I had.
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Jul 27, 2023 05:07
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So I started up a test game to try out some ideas I had for a basic waste processing setup. I started out using a waste to energy incinerator, but one problem I ran into is that it only burns waste if it has an electric load. Not a problem in a large republic with priority switches, but I didn't want to bother with it in my test game so I switched to a regular incinerator.  Please ignore the transfer for plastics, it doesn't work and needs to be an open storage. Having the factory connections be one way is really important, two way connections don't work. You don't have to setup the metal and gravel processing initially, its enough to put the separated scrap into storages and ship them out with trucks early on - they're a very small % of your total waste stream. Ash is handled by a DO with big garbage trucks that spread it between multiple dumps. The dissipation rate is very slow even multiplied 8x. It might be better to export by train. On the other hand even a dozen medium dumps are way cheaper than a rail line, garbage cars and engine.  Closeup of the core processing loop. You will get very small amounts of scrap metal in your ash with this basic setup because the separator doesn't get everything. You'd need to run the waste through the dedicated metal and aluminum separators first to get almost 100% capture. Its not really a big deal, its a tiny fraction of the total volume. Astute comrades will note that the incinerator buffer has a few dedicated bins for burnable waste that doesn't need separation. This lets you inject it into the waste stream without needing to pass it through the separator.
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Jul 27, 2023 07:30
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Demolition is a pretty neat mechanic - there's a deconstruction phase and a cleanup phase and two options for doing so. You can deconstruct with workers and excavators and get a (relatively) small amount of separated waste types (construction waste, mixed, scrap) or you can check a box to use explosives then deliver a certain quantity of boom to the site to immediately explode the building and get a massive pile of mixed waste. Then your garbage trucks assigned to demolition get to work hauling. If a large number of buildings need demo then you may need a dedicated processing plant for the resulting waste so it doesn't clog your city and industry garbage processors. Demolition also ties into the new fire mechanics- if a building burns down its like the building was demolished by explosives. The rubble has to be hauled off and then the building can be rebuilt on the same footprint, preserving any connections. Rail deconstruction is done by your rail offices and works in reverse to normal construction- some materials are recovered in addition to waste and flow back into the rail office which will need to be emptied for large jobs.
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Jul 27, 2023 22:05
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 I feel like I just got a rare achievement, "Fill up a train buffer."
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Jul 27, 2023 23:51
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Woops, 650 citizens dead because the water treatment plant stopped because it was out of chemicals because the chemical plant stopped because it was out of wood because the load bearing flatbed truck was stuck in a traffic jam at the border.
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Jul 28, 2023 03:05
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Polikarpov posted:load bearing flatbed truck well yeah, bearing loads is what trucks are for 
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Jul 28, 2023 03:51
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I noticed some weird notifications while building in another part of the map. I've made a terrible mistake.
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Jul 28, 2023 19:44
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Polikarpov posted:Woops, 650 citizens dead because the water treatment plant stopped because it was out of chemicals because the chemical plant stopped because it was out of wood because the load bearing flatbed truck was stuck in a traffic jam at the border.
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Jul 28, 2023 20:06
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I noticed some weird notifications while building in another part of the map. I tried to warn u about traffic circles, man! I tried to warn u!!
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Jul 29, 2023 16:19
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The traffic AI is too dumb to independently figure out roundabouts, you need to give them give-way signs and poo poo
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Jul 29, 2023 17:32
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It will usually figure out the correct road to prioritize when you set it, but yeah you do need to set it.
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Jul 29, 2023 17:35
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I’m still not 100% sure I have the signage totally correct, but my roundabouts work 99% of the time with the way I have the signs now. I really have no idea how that came about other than it was before I had moved some construction goods elsewhere so that intersection was totally inundated by the construction truck fleet.
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Jul 29, 2023 17:44
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You want the roundabout to be the priority road, with the entrances being give way.
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Jul 29, 2023 18:03
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OwlFancier posted:You want the roundabout to be the priority road, with the entrances being give way. That’s what I have set - I’ve not tried some other things like combining several nodes together to see if it eases traffic at all.
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Jul 29, 2023 18:48
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I would only combine nodes if you've done something like rounding off the edges of a junction to improve turning speeds, otherwise I wouldn't bother. I've been building a new capital city and put in a main underpass through it, with a big junction to let traffic off on the residential and industrial sides.  I later rounded off some of the joins onto the roundabout and combined those nodes. But tbh it does generally work fine without doing that, just makes it a little bit tidier. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jul 29, 2023 |
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Jul 29, 2023 18:50
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That's a very pretty bit of pavement! I wish the way you arrange priority roads worked better in this game.
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Jul 29, 2023 19:09
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Cars: the downfall of all economic theories
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Jul 29, 2023 19:32
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