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Comte de Saint-Germain posted:I get people picking Triss over Yen in W3, even if they are obviously and objectively wrong. But the hate people have for Yen is pathological. She's absolutely great, everything she does is completely justified and none of you would bat an eye at it if it was Geralt doing those things. Big hard choices with no good outcomes is the bread & butter of the series, and Yen is making those big hard choices constantly and some of y'all think she's a monster for it. Look inward. The funny perennial romance debate aside, as a character I find Yen most interesting when you don't know whether she's just looking out for number one or not. I feel like that's something the netflix show was in too much of a hurry to get rid of. (only seen the first two seasons.) She's absolutely at her best when conflicted between her own gain and the proto family she finds herself in.
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Jul 30, 2023 12:58
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i want the polyamorous ending I really need to finish the witcher 1 and replay 2 someday. I heard some whispers about a witcher 1 remaster, is that happening?
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Jul 30, 2023 13:00
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There is a polyamorous ending you should go for it.
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Jul 30, 2023 13:59
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UP AND ADAM posted:Weird how that guy liked Triss, wanted Triss, yet went with Yen instead. Almost like it was meant to be and even the fates cannot keep them apart... It would take a love potion to get someone to put up with Geralt … or a miracle!
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Jul 30, 2023 14:35
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Ouroboros posted:Actually all the Toussaint accents kind of bothered me because they seemed to be a weird mishmash that I couldn't place. The duchess sounded almost Spanish, some sounded German, some (kinda) French, and Guillaume who was inexplicably Irish. I got the impression that this was at least partly intentional, since Toussaint itself is a pastiche of a bunch of different European themes and styles.
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Jul 30, 2023 14:57
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Touissaint is fantasy Switzerland of course they're going to have a mishmash of accents.
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Jul 30, 2023 14:57
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Comte de Saint-Germain posted:I get people picking Triss over Yen in W3, even if they are obviously and objectively wrong. But the hate people have for Yen is pathological. She's absolutely great, everything she does is completely justified and none of you would bat an eye at it if it was Geralt doing those things. Big hard choices with no good outcomes is the bread & butter of the series, and Yen is making those big hard choices constantly and some of y'all think she's a monster for it. Look inward. michael scott thank you dot gif I never played the first two games but Yen rules and I will never pick Triss 
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Jul 30, 2023 16:10
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Geralt keeps simping over manipulative sorceresses when he should settle down with a comely, buxom peasant girl who will treat him right. A tradpeasant if you will.
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Jul 30, 2023 16:41
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While I won't back down on Yen being an rear end in a top hat, she is objectively a better character than Triss. Better written, more consistent, much better voice performance. Like I said my only real problem with the Yen romance ingame is that when you are asked to choose (if you do the main quest in the normal order) Yen has had fewer lines than you could count on one hand, and this implied relationship between her and Geralt feels unearned while the one with Triss has two full games of (inconsistent) material. Also most of the egregious examples of Yen being a sociopath are front-loaded which helps to reinforce that impression, she definitely comes across as more well rounded by the end of the game.
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Jul 30, 2023 23:07
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Arc Hammer posted:Touissaint is fantasy Switzerland of course they're going to have a mishmash of accents. I always thought it was fantasy France, which is why they have such a hard on for wine and cheese.
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Jul 30, 2023 23:13
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Ouroboros posted:While I won't back down on Yen being an rear end in a top hat, she is objectively a better character than Triss. Better written, more consistent, much better voice performance. Like I said my only real problem with the Yen romance ingame is that when you are asked to choose (if you do the main quest in the normal order) Yen has had fewer lines than you could count on one hand, and this implied relationship between her and Geralt feels unearned while the one with Triss has two full games of (inconsistent) material. Also most of the egregious examples of Yen being a sociopath are front-loaded which helps to reinforce that impression, she definitely comes across as more well rounded by the end of the game. Lol how is Yen a sociopath?
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Jul 30, 2023 23:24
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I always thought it was fantasy France, which is why they have such a hard on for wine and cheese. Don't be fooled by all the regional English accents Temeria is France with all their La Valettes and Fleur De Lys heraldry
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Jul 30, 2023 23:29
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Staltran posted:Lol how is Yen a sociopath? When she steals a treasured relic and destroys it, when she arrives at Kaer Morhen and treats her hosts like servants, when she performs necromancy and tortures a ghost, when she destroys a local religious site etc etc. I really don't understand why this is controversial lol, its in the text as part of her character and other characters constantly comment on it. Arc Hammer posted:Don't be fooled by all the regional English accents Temeria is France with all their La Valettes and Fleur De Lys heraldry
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Jul 30, 2023 23:52
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Ouroboros posted:When she steals a treasured relic and destroys it, when she arrives at Kaer Morhen and treats her hosts like servants, when she performs necromancy and tortures a ghost, when she destroys a local religious site etc etc. I really don't understand why this is controversial lol, its in the text as part of her character and other characters constantly comment on it. Oh no not a treasured relic being used for its intended purpose. Also describing using a one-use magic item as "destroying" seems pretty weird. The worst Yen does is being rude to Vesemir &co as a guest, and it's clear from the beginning that Vesemir and Yen don't like each other and it's not really surprising that extends to Lambert and Eskel. It's not like they're nice to her either. And ultimately I really don't see how that makes her a sociopath, it's really not that big a deal. That wasn't a ghost—Yen even explains to Geralt that it's not real. It's not even clear it could actually feel pain. The local religious site was occupied by a werewolf and was just being used for executions anyway, so who cares? In other words WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Also, also Yen animating a corpse and destroying an immortal-werewolf infested garden that the village was only using as an executioner's block anyway in order to find her alive adoptive daughter isn't toxic in the slightest, that's queen poo poo. Plus Triss never gets into a pun-battle with you so she automatically loses. Comte de Saint-Germain posted:I get people picking Triss over Yen in W3, even if they are obviously and objectively wrong. But the hate people have for Yen is pathological. She's absolutely great, everything she does is completely justified and none of you would bat an eye at it if it was Geralt doing those things. Big hard choices with no good outcomes is the bread & butter of the series, and Yen is making those big hard choices constantly and some of y'all think she's a monster for it. Look inward. (except Geralt does do some of the things—he does necromancy in the second game, and is at the very least an accomplice in reanimating Skjall's corpse). (I'm also not quite sure what you mean by Yen being a sociopath anyway—I don't think you mean she doesn't feel empathy?)
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Jul 31, 2023 00:24
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A sociopath - a mother who stops at nothing to save her daughter's life.
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Jul 31, 2023 00:37
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Shes Not Impressed posted:A sociopath - a mother who stops at nothing to save her daughter's life. Nice name/post combo.
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Jul 31, 2023 00:58
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Idk what the clinical definition of sociopath is or w/e it was just an expression. Basically Yen clearly gives zero weight to the feeling of other people. Sure you can come up with justifications for the things she does, but why not at least e.g. explain to Ermion why it's important that she needs that mask instead of just stealing it and telling him to gently caress off when confronted? As for the Kaer Morhen peeps, it's there in the game that she arrives and starts giving people orders without any pleasantries, introductions or explanations, no wonder they don't like her! And Lambert fine, he also kinda sucks, but Eskel and Vesemir are nothing but cool in the couple of scenes we see them in. Everyone else seems to get along with them fine so I don't think the problem is with them. Manners cost nothing!!!
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Jul 31, 2023 02:04
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She actually does present as a sociopath if you were a regular outside observer because she is so driven and laser focused, but she partly does that as a mask to cover her insecurity. Geralt can see through it (he guessed correctly at her past disfigurement) and seeing her flaws makes him like her even more. Her cooling off and becoming less of a crappy person is a big part of her character arc.
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Jul 31, 2023 02:17
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Ouroboros posted:Explain to Ermion why it's important that she needs that mask instead of just stealing it and telling him to gently caress off when confronted? Because if she did that she wouldn't be able to steal it and he was already being obstructionist. She couldn't go over his head to Crach like Geralt did because she's hosed Crach.
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Jul 31, 2023 02:36
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Because if she did that she wouldn't be able to steal it and he was already being obstructionist. She couldn't go over his head to Crach like Geralt did because she's hosed Crach. Crach and Ermion both have deep ties to Ciri, Crach helped the second he heard Ciri was involved. The entire Skellige plot do is driven by Yennifer's refusal to recognize that Ciri has connections to people outside of herself and Geralt, attempting to throw her non-existent authority around until Geralt takes a weeks-long sea voyage to actually talk to people. Yen justifies her actions in Skellige by claiming there is no time for other options; but she caused the delay entirely through her own ego and arrogance. The Skelligers were remarkably tolerant of her demands and threats when the only authority she could claim was as a representative of a hostile power (Emhyr). Yen in the books is a deeply toxic person, she cheats openly with Istredd while maintaining a double standard for Geralt. She assaults Geralt with magic when he refuses to hunt a sapient dragon. But she and Geralt love each other and they both love Ciri; and that makes for an interesting story. Whether a reader want to continue that dynamic when they shift from reading about Geralt to playing Geralt is a bit more complicated.
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Jul 31, 2023 03:06
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Comte de Saint-Germain posted:I get people picking Triss over Yen in W3, even if they are obviously and objectively wrong. But the hate people have for Yen is pathological. She's absolutely great, everything she does is completely justified and none of you would bat an eye at it if it was Geralt doing those things. Big hard choices with no good outcomes is the bread & butter of the series, and Yen is making those big hard choices constantly and some of y'all think she's a monster for it. Look inward. Rare to see a post as correct as this. Gamers hate Yen because she's an rear end in a top hat, and more often than not would praise a male character for acting exactly as she does.
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Jul 31, 2023 03:42
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Yeah Yen is very entertaining in how few fucks she gives about other people outside her circle but she's absolutely a terrible self centered person. I find her fascinating that way because of the two sides to her.
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Jul 31, 2023 03:42
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Ouroboros posted:When she steals a treasured relic and destroys it, when she arrives at Kaer Morhen and treats her hosts like servants, when she performs necromancy and tortures a ghost, when she destroys a local religious site etc etc. I really don't understand why this is controversial lol, its in the text as part of her character and other characters constantly comment on it. Yeah, I'll admit that I'm one of those dirty "only played W3 after watching the first season of the Netflix show" people, but textually Yen seemed like a strictly worse person. Didn't realize the extent of Triss' machinations, but from the game at least Geralt didn't seem too fussed about it and she (Triss) and Yen seemed quite amicable, so I figured no party thought whatever she had done was that bad. Geralt explicitly says he didn't feel as though he'd been taken advantage of. Meanwhile, Yen does a lot of questionable stuff, as well as not seeming to trust Geralt with complete information regarding her motivations/actions. The correct solution is to replay the game 3-4 times because it is great, and then you can get every possible romance (including the best choice of all, retiring with your boy Dandelion). Geralt carries three swords for a reason: one for men, one for monsters, and one for sorceresses (and women with PhDs)
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Jul 31, 2023 04:47
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Yeah Yen is definitely the more interesting character, when she does bad stuff it's written and performed very convincingly. Triss, not so much. Also god drat is the Velen portion of the main quest just so good. Two threads that are brilliant in their own ways that eventually converge, the Baron with some of the best dialogue and characterisation in the game, and the Crones with some of the best examples of the Witchery atmosphere that was all over Witcher 1. Novigrad feels like a bit of a letdown after that, a lot more by the numbers.
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Jul 31, 2023 04:58
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How far into Novigrad are you? There's a quest where you put on a mummer's play which is a highlight and there's a few really, really good sidequests.
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Jul 31, 2023 05:00
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yennefer is capable of deep insight and empathy, but there are maybe three people on the planet whom she believes warrant that level of consideration and if they ever end up in trouble then it's bad times for anyone and anything else who might stand between her and their safety. because of that empathy, she's also not smothering or overprotective, like when geralt nervously tells her that he took ciri to deal with the remaining crones and she bluntly responds "you granted her the revenge and closure she sorely needed and you're two of the most skilled warriors in the realm, why on earth would i be upset about this" it's fascinating how everyone in-game consistently misjudges her personality too, because she's so prickly and disinterested in explaining herself
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Jul 31, 2023 05:08
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Arc Hammer posted:How far into Novigrad are you? There's a quest where you put on a mummer's play which is a highlight and there's a few really, really good sidequests. Yeah I've played it before and it has some fun bits but generally it feels a bit more generic idk, a lot of running around busywork too. Plus some awkward scenes, like I hate how if you decide to kill Whoreson Geralt does it not because of the abattoir of murdered prostitutes surrounding him, but because he might have hypothetically hurt Ciri??
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Jul 31, 2023 05:17
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Ouroboros posted:Yeah I've played it before and it has some fun bits but generally it feels a bit more generic idk, a lot of running around busywork too. Plus some awkward scenes, like I hate how if you decide to kill Whoreson Geralt does it not because of the abattoir of murdered prostitutes surrounding him, but because he might have hypothetically hurt Ciri?? Yeah that sucks rear end. I have to imagine that poo poo was put in much later than the writing and VA. Really unnecessary honestly.
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Jul 31, 2023 05:22
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One of the reasons I bounce off of videogame choose-your-own romances is that there's no actual romance to them. What gives these relationships value is that these individuals are compelled from within themselves towards their partner. Asking the player to make those choices instead for the main character turns it more into impersonal matchmaking. Which can also be interesting, working out a tactical analysis of options; Divinity: Dragon Commander might be the best example of that. I guess you can also get into the whole parasocial waifu angle of things which is also poison to me. S in the game I just kinda groove through it contextually, and in context of Witcher 3, Yennifer keeps showing up no matter what because she's independently working on the same thing as Geralt, and the smash or pass moment in her sidequest is really awkward to turn down, while Triss you have every reason to try to get out of the city for her own drat good and it's kind of a no-brainer to teller to get the gently caress out of the city running a genocide on her kind and never look back (although the fact that she kinda inevitably looks back undercuts that). Ouroboros posted:Also god drat is the Velen portion of the main quest just so good. Two threads that are brilliant in their own ways that eventually converge, the Baron with some of the best dialogue and characterisation in the game, and the Crones with some of the best examples of the Witchery atmosphere that was all over Witcher 1. Novigrad feels like a bit of a letdown after that, a lot more by the numbers. I felt like Velen kinda dragged at times because when it turns into a peasant misery simulator it really can wear you down. Although Novigrad has so many drat quests in it, it can feel hard to escape the city's gravity. I feel like I should try aimlessly roaming around Velen more next time as well, since I'm pretty sure there's a fair chunk of the map that you don't really get pointed towards by quests. Edit: Also Whoreson just kinda sucks. I feel like normally Witcher gets its mature grittiness organically, but that was just gratuitously grotesque. And then the mimic who takes his place implies there's nothing wrong with his brain despite throwing a fit about having to take the form of the inquisitor? Gross. SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 05:22
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he's not whoreson. he's whoreson junior.
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Jul 31, 2023 07:43
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Oxxidation posted:yennefer is capable of deep insight and empathy, but there are maybe three people on the planet whom she believes warrant that level of consideration and if they ever end up in trouble then it's bad times for anyone and anything else who might stand between her and their safety. because of that empathy, she's also not smothering or overprotective, like when geralt nervously tells her that he took ciri to deal with the remaining crones and she bluntly responds "you granted her the revenge and closure she sorely needed and you're two of the most skilled warriors in the realm, why on earth would i be upset about this" Whenever Geralt eats humble pie, it's the best. Also, Yen should definitely aim higher, like what prospects does a two bit Witcher in dad bod armor really bring to the table?
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Jul 31, 2023 08:07
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Splorange posted:Also, Yen should definitely aim higher, like what prospects does a two bit Witcher in dad bod armor really bring to the table? She's effectively immortal, he'll only last another century or two (probably a lot less given his profession). She can afford to slum it for a while.
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Jul 31, 2023 08:29
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Yen annoys me because she is kind of the brilliant rear end in a top hat archetype and i hate it when Cumberbatch's Sherlock (for example) is just allowed to be an rear end in a top hat by everyone around him because he is just that smart and also suffers no narrative consequences for it because the writers bend over backwards justifying it. The difference is that Yen actually does suffer those narrative consequences because she is brilliant and she does just forge ahead doing her own thing and she is a colossal rear end in a top hat, and the writers generally acknowledge and show that just because you're right doest mean you're not also an rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 31, 2023 12:38
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Look, what I'm saying is, I support women's rights, but also women's wrongs. I love it when bitches be bad.
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Jul 31, 2023 12:41
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Ravenfood posted:..the brilliant rear end in a top hat archetype and i hate it when Cumberbatch's Sherlock (for example) is just allowed to be an rear end in a top hat by everyone around him because he is just that smart and also suffers no narrative consequences for it because the writers bend over backwards justifying it. Sherlock is like a paper thin character, that's all he is. I'd say that Yen is more competent and earns respect through that - though there's a lot of interpretation when it comes to the books and a bit less open ended in W3 because it's basically a (lovingly) written fanfic.. aaand there's always intent and the author and so on. Just for shits, I'm trying to come up with a similarly written female character in pop culture but I'm kinda coming up short. Like, I can name real life people (like real life, not celebrities) that unapologetically get poo poo done (and are awesome to be around) - but I'm kinda struggling coming up with a fictional one, anyone?
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Jul 31, 2023 13:14
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Gina The Charterhouse of Parma
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Jul 31, 2023 13:33
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Splorange posted:Just for shits, I'm trying to come up with a similarly written female character in pop culture but I'm kinda coming up short. Like, I can name real life people (like real life, not celebrities) that unapologetically get poo poo done (and are awesome to be around) - but I'm kinda struggling coming up with a fictional one, anyone? 
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Jul 31, 2023 14:05
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Elaine Benes.
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Jul 31, 2023 14:07
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Dammit I was gonna post this.
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Jul 31, 2023 15:41
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Ravenfood posted:Yen annoys me because she is kind of the brilliant rear end in a top hat archetype and i hate it when Cumberbatch's Sherlock (for example) is just allowed to be an rear end in a top hat by everyone around him because he is just that smart and also suffers no narrative consequences for it because the writers bend over backwards justifying it. I mean that Sherlock is a dogshit show, I've not watched enough to comment on whether that holds true but it's not like there aren't examples of that written slightly better. The only Sherlock show I ever watched much of was House, and everyone around him is constantly sick of his poo poo and he ruins all his relationships repeatedly. Anyway I'm currently playing through W3 again and got to the initial Triss romance quest and its kinda... bad. Also is Triss' voice actor also British and doing an accent? If so it's much better to my ear than, say, Shani's, but I noticed a couple tell-tale word pronunciations that sound off. Might explain why the performance is a bit flat, must be hard to emote properly while also putting on an accent that's not your own.
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Jul 31, 2023 16:37
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