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Yeah, but Volvo's in the snow is cheating. They were born in the snowy land of Sweden!
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Jul 28, 2023 03:11
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Fatrick posted:Yeah, but Volvo's in the snow is cheating. They were born in the snowy land of Sweden! The Volvo 740 was available with a locking rear diff. The Eaton G80 auto locking diff was standard in '92 and up USDM models, available earlier as an option. My '90 wagon had a retrofitted switchable locking diff from a Jeep installed when the previous owner was staioned in Alaska. Not that I had much use for it in Alabama and Florida, but it would not get stuck in slippery conditions with the diff locked. All of 113 HP would make it climb so slow that the speedometer wouldn't register, with careful application of the throttle. Just crawling up the roads onto the mountain here at 2mph, listening to the people behind me honk and then watching them slide back down the hill behind me.
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Jul 28, 2023 06:27
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I'm still proud of having successfully driven a BMW Z4 M up and over the pass on I-84 west of Danbury after a heavy day's snowfall that left most of the right lane of the freeway gridlocked but for some reason I was able to keep it floating and aimed right until I'd passed everybody.
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Jul 28, 2023 12:38
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There’s nothing funnier than watching Texans in their giant pickups sliding all over the place after a light dusting of snow
Scratch Monkey fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 28, 2023 |
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Jul 28, 2023 13:03
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The town I grew up in had a road that had some superlative like ”most traveled road with the steepest and sharpest corner” and it was the only way to get to the next town over so when it snowed all of my friends would have me drive their car up it, because no one would get winter tires. Most difficult one was a crx, fucker was just so light it had almost no traction
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Jul 28, 2023 13:50
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Yeah, I'm sure it was a weight problem
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Jul 28, 2023 14:01
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Is it possible to have a FWD car that can't go anywhere it wants to? like if you had a 99cc engine or something?
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Jul 28, 2023 14:06
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For FWD, just reversing up a hill is usually enough to get up almost any slope, if you have traction (in other words, good tires).
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Jul 28, 2023 14:55
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Ether Frenzy posted:Is it possible to have a FWD car that can't go anywhere it wants to? like if you had a 99cc engine or something? Not if you have enough gear reductoin
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Jul 28, 2023 15:12
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I know this is the thread for somewhat reductive takes for the sake of conversation, but FWD cars absolutely have their shortcomings. What do you do when you have great tires but your front suspension geometry is set up for comfort primarily, meaning your front wheels will start bouncing up and down in a low-traction situation? This isn't a theoretical scenario mind you, I experienced this phenomenon a few weeks ago in my brother's work-provided Skoda Superb. Wet road surface, full throttle, the front end of the car that ought to be weighed down by the heavy diesel does the old 90s VW Vento (Jetta for you Americans) thing where it's actively hampering any grip the tires might have because of the suspension. In an actual slippery scenario that car would be useless. With AWD and the much-maligned electronic differential replacement system it'd go like a rocket because the weight transfer alone would be favoring the rear wheels under acceleration on a slippery surface which Haldex would more than be able to cope with. But hey, it's electronic, it's not entirely mechanical, therefore it must suck. Every actually off-road worthy truck and 4x4 made since the 90s that also has a Torsen or similar on-the-road AWD mode uses similar systems for power distribution and to control wheelslip. From experience Land Cruiser Prados are more performant in deep snow without the center diff lock because then it relies solely on the Torsen diff and electronic differential replacements, i.e. braking wheels that have no traction to transfer power over to the wheels that do have it. It ain't perfect, but it's transformative in the sense that common SUVs and crossovers with well-setup systems (in other words, turning traction control off doesn't also disable EDS) can go way further than they ought to in bad conditions.
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Jul 28, 2023 19:04
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Ether Frenzy posted:Is it possible to have a FWD car that can't go anywhere it wants to? Very much so. My driveway when it rains - a FWD is just going to sit there and wait for my Forester to tow it out and rally tyres wont save it
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Jul 28, 2023 22:48
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Very much so. My driveway when it rains - a FWD is just going to sit there and wait for my Forester to tow it out and rally tyres wont save it You're obviously not carrying enough speed as you enter your driveway
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Jul 29, 2023 00:32
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To this day, my wife believes the Miata is the best possible car to have in the snow because I could go anywhere in it. I've told her about winter tires, but she thinks I'm exaggerating what a difference they make.
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Jul 29, 2023 03:19
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MrLogan posted:I've told her about winter tires, but she thinks I'm exaggerating what a difference they make. Tires make all the difference. Dad daily drove a E36 M3 for 5-6 years in west central Wisconsin and the only issue he ever ran into during the winter was the front acting like a snow plow. One year he switches back to summer tires a little earlier than usual and got caught in a blizzard, spent 3/4 of the drive sideways then got stuck on a slight incline less than a mile from the house.
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Jul 29, 2023 14:14
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Was driving to work in my all seasons, first snow of the year, very light, and just slid across the entrance to my work while my boss was coming the other way and laughing at me. Got my winters on soon after that and just grip everywhere.
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Jul 29, 2023 14:58
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Fatrick posted:This video shows that a regular car with winters is just as good as a 4wd car with winters: Huh? They literally say the best solution is an AWD car with winter tires and the AWD made it all the way up the slope instead of just most of the way.
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Jul 29, 2023 15:28
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Best snow car I ever drove was my mom's '67 Volkswagen. It was unstoppable. In Switzerland, Mom drove a '64 Mini with an automatic transmission. In the winter my dad & I would change the tires out to studs. Loud as hell, but never got stuck going up & down a 900-meter ridge taking us to the school bus. 
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Jul 30, 2023 03:42
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Purely mechanical diffs suck unless you're in a situation where you'd want them locked all the time like off roading or rock crawling or whatever the gently caress, but in a simple slippery road condition a mechanical diff is just going to be so much slower to react than any half decent electronic setup
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Jul 30, 2023 22:57
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Jul 31, 2023 16:06
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Ok fine. I won’t bitch about subcompacts being killed any more.
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Jul 31, 2023 20:16
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fridge corn posted:Purely mechanical diffs suck unless you're in a situation where you'd want them locked all the time like off roading or rock crawling or whatever the gently caress, but in a simple slippery road condition a mechanical diff is just going to be so much slower to react than any half decent electronic setup This is just absolutly wrong. The fact that something called pre-load exists makes it utterly impossible for electronics to even think about being faster (the electronic diff has to wait for a companion system to sense and actuate) - and a pure mechanical LSD most certainly can sense and begin to react to changes in rotational difference faster than electronic dwell time. Thats why a good torsen is going to get you out of a grassy field and electronics is going to stutter and fart. A mechanical system what a EVO or a STI has with electronic inputs to help give a controller like DCCD the abilty to change when and how the diff begins to lock or unlock just simply adds to just how much superior mechanical actually is. On an EV it's different as the torque output can be controlled insanely fast due to how fast the motor can be controlled, unlike in ICE where the dwell time can be signifigant. But even then it can not top a good mechanical setup in isolation -combined, that a system that will take a lot of beating.
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Jul 31, 2023 22:51
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:This is just absolutly wrong. The fact that something called pre-load exists makes it utterly impossible for electronics to even think about being faster (the electronic diff has to wait for a companion system to sense and actuate) - and a pure mechanical LSD most certainly can sense and begin to react to changes in rotational difference faster than electronic dwell time. Thats why a good torsen is going to get you out of a grassy field and electronics is going to stutter and fart. A mechanical system what a EVO or a STI has with electronic inputs to help give a controller like DCCD the abilty to change when and how the diff begins to lock or unlock just simply adds to just how much superior mechanical actually is. I'd knew you'd chime in with your typical yelling at clouds nonsense but this takes the cake lol. As you said yourself even the best mechanical diff can only react to conditions meaning it can only begin to lock up once traction has already been lost, whereas an electronic system works to anticipate conditions and prevent traction loss in the first place. But you clearly don't even know the most basic operation of modern e-diffs cuz most of the time they maintain a state of full lock by default and only begin to allow rotational differences as necessary. How's that for reaction time?
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Jul 31, 2023 23:09
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Jonny Nox posted:Ok fine. I won’t bitch about subcompacts being killed any more. NEVER STOP, MY BROTHER
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Jul 31, 2023 23:15
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fridge corn posted:But you clearly don't even know the most basic operation of modern e-diffs cuz most of the time they maintain a state of full lock by default and only begin to allow rotational differences as necessary. How's that for reaction time? This doesn't seem right to me and casual googling of all the major manufacturers of differentials (both electronic and mechanical) seem to indicate this is untrue.
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Jul 31, 2023 23:36
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Most e-diffs are only on when the module is 'active' and as soon as power is removed or the fluid pressure drops, the diff unlocks. Usually because they are doing so via a clutch pack rather than a mechanical lock or a collar, unless you have a true 'locker' that mechanical locks it via a collar of some sort. Its also usually because most people don't actually need or want full time diff locks because they'll likely blow up their diff. Vintage Audis (including up to the mid 90s) did have actual diff locks that would lock the output shaft to the ring gear. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jul 31, 2023 |
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Jul 31, 2023 23:42
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fridge corn posted:I'd knew you'd chime in with your typical yelling at clouds nonsense but this takes the cake lol. As you said yourself even the best mechanical diff can only react to conditions meaning it can only begin to lock up once traction has already been lost, whereas an electronic system works to anticipate conditions and prevent traction loss in the first place. There is no diff in the world other than a TIG locker (or a detroit locker but however from what I've been told but they also will unlock at low rotation differences) than maintains full lock as default. Electronic diffs do not further more anticpate conditions like some magic bullshit, they only react to inputs based on their programming. Accusng someone of not knowing poo poo when you literally cant get get basic facts right twice in a row is honestly hilarious
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Jul 31, 2023 23:43
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:There is no diff in the world other than a TIG locker (or a detroit locker but however from what I've been told but they also will unlock at low rotation differences) than maintains full lock as default. Which type is a TIG locker? I think the detroit locker is the one we'd call a lokka or lunchbox locker but don't think I've heard of a TIG before? The lunchbox/detroit lockers will unlock when there's rotation differences but when this happens exactly depends on the traction levels and how much power is being applied. More power makes it harder to unlock the diff. At least that's been my experience off road.
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Jul 31, 2023 23:51
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ili posted:Which type is a TIG locker? I think the detroit locker is the one we'd call a lokka or lunchbox locker but don't think I've heard of a TIG before?
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Jul 31, 2023 23:54
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ili posted:Which type is a TIG locker? I think the detroit locker is the one we'd call a lokka or lunchbox locker but don't think I've heard of a TIG before? The lunchbox/detroit lockers will unlock when there's rotation differences but when this happens exactly depends on the traction levels and how much power is being applied. More power makes it harder to unlock the diff. At least that's been my experience off road. A TIG locker is a diff where you get the welder out and weld the spider gears and fill the center in 
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Jul 31, 2023 23:55
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Ah right I initially thought that but I've only ever seen it done with a mig or stick lol.
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Aug 1, 2023 00:13
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Also known as Miller or Lincoln lockers. Esab go home.
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Aug 1, 2023 00:21
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fridge corn posted:an electronic system works to anticipate conditions and prevent traction loss in the first place. That sounds like Cybertruck ad copy
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Aug 1, 2023 00:40
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orange juche posted:I mean you have a wagon which is infinitely more acceptable than a land yacht SUV. I'd kill for an Outback wagon in decent shape. The ones in decent shape aren't on the market near me, and the only ones that are on the market have rust bubbles on the body panels because the whole underside is gone and the wagon is about to fold in half. gently caress you rust belt. I’m pretty happy with it. We flew from Dallas to Phoenix to pick it up, but that’s only really because a goon was selling it cheap on AI Goonmart so he didn’t have to deal with idiots. Well, regular idiots. Made it worth my while, and the car was clean. Would have been happy to keep our Kia Spectra 5, but the wife’s back won’t let her do manual trans as a daily (working the clutch hurts. ) Look into a fly and drive from the South, I guess. CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:As much as I'll hang poo poo on Subaru for relying on ESC and TSC instead of mechanical LSD these days, it's a proper full time AWD that isnt a half assed addon that does make a car more capable in poo poo conditions. Yeah, I’d prefer real LSD, but for practical purposes, the VDC works. When it doesn’t de use t turn itself off randomly. First experience with it was pretty neat. I started drifting it around a i-turn in the wet, and it just… straightened itself. No fuss. Scratch Monkey posted:There’s nothing funnier than watching Texans in their giant pickups sliding all over the place after a light dusting of snow Never gets old!
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Aug 1, 2023 00:49
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:There is no diff in the world other than a TIG locker (or a detroit locker but however from what I've been told but they also will unlock at low rotation differences) than maintains full lock as default. 
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Aug 1, 2023 08:15
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How about instead of being a loving rear end in a top hat about it, you explain to the rest of us how you're right and we're wrong. Cite your sources. or else
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Aug 1, 2023 08:38
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MrChips posted:How about instead of being a loving rear end in a top hat about it, you explain to the rest of us how you're right and we're wrong. Okay, from my own personal experience I can say categorically that the e-diff in a Ferrari operates from a default condition of full lock. Has done since 458. The ediff in the 430 operated from full open but as many in this thread may have intuited this was deemed too slow for effective operation. Also with an e-diff you can do things like torque vectoring which you simply can't do with a purely mechanical diff. An e-diff is an active component on the vehicle, a mechanical diff can only be reactive And modern stability and traction systems can be really good. Cars are running 1Mbs dedicated CANs these days. Theyre looking mostly at driver inputs like steering angle, throttle angle, brake pressure. It's calculating what the driver is attempting to do and responding to that based on what the car is capable of instead of trying to regain control after already having lost it. It knows if you've put too much steering lock on before you do. Not trying to be a dick, I like good old fashioned mechanical stuff just as much as anyone else in here does, but there is definitely an entrenched streak of luddite thinking that goes on in here saying that purely mechanical systems will always be superior cuz it's just not true
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Aug 1, 2023 09:45
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Ahem, I believe you will find that I'm doing all these sick lurid drifts with my 500hp car that is in "Drift mode" on my own pure talent.
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Aug 1, 2023 09:49
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Ether Frenzy posted:Ahem, I believe you will find that I'm doing all these sick lurid drifts with my 500hp car that is in "Drift mode" on my own pure talent. Yeah lol the newer models with full electric steering will give you a little "nudge" when you've reached an appropriate amount of opposite lock when doing sick lurid drifts to try and stop you from overcorrecting 
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Aug 1, 2023 10:17
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The embigenning continues apace. Apparently this is all the market wants. https://twitter.com/autocar/status/1686308836750012416?t=01SFtDzljFMEYBPJXporBA&s=19
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Aug 1, 2023 14:01
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Olympic Mathlete posted:The embigenning continues apace. Apparently this is all the market wants. Its so loving stupid.
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Aug 1, 2023 14:54
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