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Here in the wilderness of rural Illinois the big issues that drive GOP voters are 1. Guns 2. Abortion 3. Racism I live in a pretty poor rural area. The kids at my school get free lunch because of the high poverty rate in the district. When talking about government aid they say that “city people” are just mooching off hard working Americans. I point out the high rate of government assistance even within the school “oh, but people around here deserve it”
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Aug 1, 2023 12:48
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NY Times today: Biden Shores Up Democratic Support, but Faces Tight Race Against Trump https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/01/us/politics/biden-trump-poll.html?smid=nytcore-android-share It shows 31% of people in the goons cohort (30-44) want to renominate Biden. So, uh, who else is there? I've been pretty happy with him the whole time so I guess I'm in the minority
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Aug 1, 2023 12:53
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Tragicomic posted:NY Times today: Biden Shores Up Democratic Support, but Faces Tight Race Against Trump https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/01/us/politics/biden-trump-poll.html?smid=nytcore-android-share I certainly think he's been better than expected. Still would prefer someone younger and lefter but it isn't going to happen
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Aug 1, 2023 12:58
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Tragicomic posted:It shows 31% of people in the goons cohort (30-44) want to renominate Biden.
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Aug 1, 2023 13:00
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Nash posted:Here in the wilderness of rural Illinois the big issues that drive GOP voters are This is literally the reason racism exists, and in its diluted and generalised forms like small town resentment and anti-intellectualism. It was invented to create these attitudes. It is a taught thing, and the reason there's so much focus on controlling and destroying education, and driving minorities off social platforms, is to remove avenues through which anything else can be taught.
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Aug 1, 2023 13:05
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i would prefer a non credibly accused rapist (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 1, 2023 13:56
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Mooseontheloose posted:We go through this a lot in D&D. Conservative voters and even some moderates will vote against a program because it will help Don't forget Lee Atwater's dogwhistling strategy is still alive and well. Welfare queens are still a myth still going strong, especially in Boomers. Nash posted:Here in the wilderness of rural Illinois the big issues that drive GOP voters are The dogwhistling gives people who don't think they're racist the wiggle room to perform that type of mental gymnastics.
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Aug 1, 2023 14:00
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I was told I was teaching left wing talking points by my principal when I told my classes on Jan 7 that the mob at the capital was made of Trump supporters who thought the election was stolen because Trump kept saying and insisting it was. Apparently multiple parents called to complain about me. Teaching in a small rural high school lets me see all sorts of mental gymnastics and reality bubbles.
Nash fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 14:12
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Nash posted:Here in the wilderness of rural Illinois the big issues that drive GOP voters are Nash posted:I was told I was teaching left wing talking points by my principal when I told my classes on Jan 7 that the mob at the capital was made of Trump supporters who though the election was stolen because Trump kept saying and insisting it was. Apparently multiple parents called to complain about me. Teaching in a small rural high school lets me see all sorts of mental gymnastics and reality bubbles.
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Aug 1, 2023 14:32
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Talking more about politicians actively hurting their own constituencies for no reason. AL Sen. Tommy Tuberville, who may actually be the stupidest person in the Senate, has a blanket hold on all congressionally-approved military promotions, (as i posted about yesterday). The Trump administration had planned to locate Space Command in Huntsville, Alabama, which would be a huge boost to the local economy and conditions. If you doubt how important these bases and posts are to communities, just look at what happens during rounds of BRAC, they are the fattest, greasiest pork you can get for your people back home. Well now guess what isn't going to Alabama? And Potato Town is livid https://twitter.com/SenTuberville/status/1686365122405494784 The Pentagon is saying it's because of "readiness" but it's patently obvious this is payback for his promotions stunt. If you can't take the punishment don't play the game Tommy!
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Aug 1, 2023 15:21
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It's extremely difficult to overstate how much of a loser you are for your constituency when you blow an opportunity like that
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Aug 1, 2023 15:23
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My favorite part is how his
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Aug 1, 2023 15:26
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zoux posted:The Pentagon is saying it's because of "readiness" but it's patently obvious this is payback for his promotions stunt. If you can't take the punishment don't play the game Tommy! Retaliation or not, "readiness" is a good reason for not putting the base in AL. If they (AL reps, and GOP in general) are proposing and passing laws that are actively antagonistic towards LGBTQ+, reproductive rights, and women's rights in general, then the military is going to get a lot of requests to not be stationed there, or request a transfer if they end up there. Additionally, civilians looking to move away for the above reasons would also impact readiness, since there would be less people there overall to volunteer to join, and much less be willing to end up stationed back in AL.
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Aug 1, 2023 15:31
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haveblue posted:My favorite part is how his Everyone calls him Coach too, like all his Senate colleagues. It's very embarrassing AND also a violation of commonly held traditions about style of office!  The long knives are being unsheathed down in FL quote:The chat in Signal, an encrypted messaging app, offers the first clear look into the “war room” that has defined the Florida governor’s candidacy, and is presided over by his high-profile and confrontational director of rapid response, Christina Pushaw. The correspondence obtained by Semafor also offers a glimpse of a strategy that mixes digital aggression and (unsuccessful) attempts to keep the campaign’s own activities secret. The messages were set to disappear after one week. Christina Pushaw sucks so bad I hope this ruins her. The post-mortems on this campaign are going to be particularly gratifying to read. zoux fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 15:35
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zoux posted:Everyone calls him Coach too, like all his Senate colleagues. It's very embarrassing AND also a violation of commonly held traditions about style of office! Chuds seem to love a coach. Lots of lower-level right wing media personalities insist on being called "Coach", and I feel like there's an essay waiting to be written on why that is. I am far too lazy to be the one to write it, though, even though it's kind of obvious.
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Aug 1, 2023 15:46
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If I was a Senator I'd probably call him coach too.
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Aug 1, 2023 15:46
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Crunch Buttsteak posted:Chuds seem to love a coach. Ravenfood posted:If I was a Senator I'd probably call him coach too. E: I wonder if he gets mad if you don’t call him coach, like the Maestro on “Seinfeld.” Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 16:09
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Mellow Seas posted:Honestly? Yeah, me too. Although mostly I would try to avoid talking to him. That's easy, simply be a recruit on the day he gets offered a better job.
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Aug 1, 2023 16:12
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The model for big time college sports is just teetering as close as you can to violating ethics rules to buy recruits into your program. (The actual managerial/tactical skill matters, but is secondary.) So despite his stupidity Tuberville is probably a great fundraiser, since it’s basically the same deal.
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Aug 1, 2023 16:15
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I really liked this 2019 piece about rural voters believing government, by its nature, cannot help them. The crux of it is everything we've been talking about : anyone (especially racial minorities) looking for help is secretly or overtly fraudulent, and areas most impacted by coastal/urban migration among younger residents also tend to believe they are already taxed to the breaking point and any more "theft" will do serious harm. "In the Land of Self-Defeat" There's also that (iirc) Bush-era classic titled something like "Undecided Voters Are Morons". I'm struggling to find the piece, but one anecdote within the article I found really illuminating was one person responding to the realization that a politician was campaigning on an issue he specifically cared about much in the same way you or I would respond to looking down one day and seeing a third hand: confused and incredulous. The idea that the state is, and can only be, a leech is that deeply internalized.
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Aug 1, 2023 16:16
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Mellow Seas posted:The model for big time college sports is just teetering as close as you can to violating ethics rules to buy recruits into your program. (The actual managerial/tactical skill matters, but is secondary.) So despite his stupidity Tuberville is probably a great fundraiser, since it’s basically the same deal. It's also why college basketball and football should just become privatized and let them be the minor leagues for NFL/NBA. Give ever program an equal footing to convince 18 year olds to play with you.
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Aug 1, 2023 16:18
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Farchanter posted:The crux of it is everything we've been talking about : anyone (especially racial minorities) looking for help is secretly or overtly fraudulent I blame the question mark suit guy.
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Aug 1, 2023 16:19
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Mellow Seas posted:I blame the question mark suit guy. The Riddler is very problemati
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Aug 1, 2023 16:23
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Farchanter posted:I really liked this 2019 piece about rural voters believing government, by its nature, cannot help them. The crux of it is everything we've been talking about : anyone (especially racial minorities) looking for help is secretly or overtly fraudulent, and areas most impacted by coastal/urban migration among younger residents also tend to believe they are already taxed to the breaking point and any more "theft" will do serious harm. Another thing that pops out is that these folks are mind-bogglingly stupid quote:If you want to make $25 an hour, please go to a city that can afford it,” she wrote. “We the people are not here to pay your excessive salaries through taxation or in any other way.” I think people avoid it because they don't want to appear elitist but someone should do some research into how many rank and file GOP voters are just dumb as dogshit and that's why they fall for all of this stuff https://twitter.com/aedwardslevy/status/1686399010632781824 If RFK switched primaries he would pose the greatest challenge to Trump. zoux fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 16:27
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It creates a nasty loop where program administrators are aggressively looking for things they can call fraudulent which further persuades people that the government is a bunch of useless crooks when they get denials for no reason
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Aug 1, 2023 16:30
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Farchanter posted:There's also that (iirc) Bush-era classic titled something like "Undecided Voters Are Morons". I'm struggling to find the piece, but one anecdote within the article I found really illuminating was one person responding to the realization that a politician was campaigning on an issue he specifically cared about much in the same way you or I would respond to looking down one day and seeing a third hand: confused and incredulous. The idea that the state is, and can only be, a leech is that deeply internalized. You may be thinking about Chris Hayes's personal Heart of Darkness odyssey in which he discovers that undecided voters are totally unaware of what you and I consider the basic components and mechanisms of politics (this site gave me security warnings but it seems to be the primary source) Which then reminded me of this equally classic but much more insightful voter safari piece which only became truer and more accurate as the Trump era dragged on haveblue fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 16:33
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haveblue posted:You may be thinking about Chris Hayes's personal Heart of Darkness odyssey in which he discovers that undecided voters are totally unaware of what you and I consider the basic components and mechanisms of politics (this site gave me security warnings but it seems to be the primary source) Yup, that's it, thank you!
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Aug 1, 2023 16:48
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zoux posted:If RFK switched primaries he would pose the greatest challenge to Trump.
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Aug 1, 2023 16:52
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FlamingLiberal posted:I have to assume that he’s only running in the Dem primary because of his family history, since his positions are almost all conservative Well, that's why the GOP is paying him to run in the Dem primary https://twitter.com/AlexThomp/status/1686395546901090304 It's a ratfuck operation https://twitter.com/benryanwriter/status/1686389110339244032 Also in the theme of "we don't care about material conditions" where the material condition is "being alive" zoux fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 16:56
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The guy looks like a real-life deep hurting cartoon
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Aug 1, 2023 16:59
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Does rfk jr have positions other than “the Jews did covid”? He’s said things that are technically true but so broad that he gives no hint of what he’d do about them, like that the middle class is shrinking because of policies that favor the rich. What policies? He seems like a textbook crank.
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Aug 1, 2023 17:03
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Farchanter posted:I really liked this 2019 piece about rural voters believing government, by its nature, cannot help them. The crux of it is everything we've been talking about : anyone (especially racial minorities) looking for help is secretly or overtly fraudulent, and areas most impacted by coastal/urban migration among younger residents also tend to believe they are already taxed to the breaking point and any more "theft" will do serious harm. There's a lot of people out there, even outside the top 1%, who fundamentally believe that capitalism (including all its brutal inequalities) is mostly fair and correct. Although they might occasionally accept that there are flaws in the system, they regard those flaws as rare and temporary, not as widespread systemic issues. And more often than not, they're happy to blame those flaws on anti-capitalist actors (such as government regulators or labor unions) maliciously undermining the system and disrupting its workings. zoux posted:Another thing that pops out is that these folks are mind-bogglingly stupid It's worth noting the particular context of the situation there. The county in question had been host to a resource boom (natural gas) which brought in plenty of local tax money, so the local government engaged in expensive building programs and expansions of services, such as an entire new library building. Then gas prices dropped and the boom ended abruptly, tax revenues dropped by more than 20 percent, and the county had to make deep service cuts - made all the worse by the fact that many of the expensive boom projects weren't totally paid for yet and therefore had a continuing impact on the budget. Suddenly the remaining debt on the new library building represented a significant portion of the county's remaining budget, and locals widely felt that they'd been burned by short-sighted tax-and-spend liberals spending beyond what the county could afford. In that context, it's not surprising that a 30% pay raise for the head librarian (who was already making more than the local median income) wasn't all that popular.
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Aug 1, 2023 17:04
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I AM GRANDO posted:Does rfk jr have positions other than “the Jews did covid”? He’s said things that are technically true but so broad that he gives no hint of what he’d do about them, like that the middle class is shrinking because of policies that favor the rich. What policies? He seems like a textbook crank.
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Aug 1, 2023 17:06
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zoux posted:Another thing that pops out is that these folks are mind-bogglingly stupid If they run him as a third party is there a chance he actually hurts Trump more than Biden?
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Aug 1, 2023 17:08
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:If they run him as a third party is there a chance he actually hurts Trump more than Biden? Oh absolutely. All the test polls I've seen where they float any third party candidate peels more off the GOP candidate than Biden. Not that there's much probative value in polls more than a year out from the election, but that's what donors and strategists go by and what it's telling them is that any ratfucking will gently caress the Republican party more this cycle.
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Aug 1, 2023 17:13
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zoux posted:The Pentagon is saying it's because of "readiness" but it's patently obvious this is payback for his promotions stunt. If you can't take the punishment don't play the game Tommy! In fairness Trump has gone on the public record as saying the reason he wanted to move it to Alabama was solely because he loved Alabama and every politician from Colorado has been spending every second possible lobbying to force an actual formal justification of what would inevitably be a very expensive move. So it’s more that Tuberville is pissed a blatant pricey bribe that never made sense didn’t go through while he actively took a poo poo all over the people who control the bribe. Couldn’t happen to a stupider Senator.
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Aug 1, 2023 17:28
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haveblue posted:You may be thinking about Chris Hayes's personal Heart of Darkness odyssey in which he discovers that undecided voters are totally unaware of what you and I consider the basic components and mechanisms of politics (this site gave me security warnings but it seems to be the primary source) It endlessly confuses me that people keep citing the Chris Hayes piece as an example, because with the benefit of hindsight it looks hopelessly naive. For example, he found that voter dislike of the War on Terror didn't translate to support for Bush's opponents, because voters didn't think Bush's opponents would end the overseas wars or bring them to a more acceptable state. Hayes thought that was "odd" and "maddening", but history seems to have proven the doubtful undecided voters completely correct: Obama kept the war in Afghanistan going throughout his entire term, and although he followed the Bush administration's timeline in withdrawing troops from Iraq, by the end of his term he'd sent US troops back into Iraq in response to the deteriorating situation there. Ultimately, the two US military adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan didn't fully* end until Biden's administration - around fifteen years after Chris Hayes wrote an article about how baffled he was that undecideds didn't think defeating the Republicans would be enough to quickly resolve those wars. His own biases come into play there too, because it's quite apparent that he himself doesn't really have any interest in ending the Iraq War. He states quite openly that he believes that US interventionism in the Middle East to spread "freedom and well-being" is a crucial political duty accepted by everyone except "the left and right fringes of the political spectrum", and he therefore dismisses anti-war voters as "crypto-racist isolationists". While I don't doubt that he heard from more than a few racists who didn't have particularly high respect for the lives or human rights of foreigners, he seems to be intentionally painting with a wide brush there because he didn't think there was any other reason to oppose American wars in the Middle East.
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Aug 1, 2023 17:29
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Combed Thunderclap posted:In fairness Trump has gone on the public record as saying the reason he wanted to move it to Alabama was solely because he loved Alabama and every politician from Colorado has been spending every second possible lobbying to force an actual formal justification of what would inevitably be a very expensive move. Sounds like the good Coach/Senator is bad at promotion. Who knew?
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Aug 1, 2023 17:31
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https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/31/us/biden-space-force-alabama-colorado.html Biden cancels Trump order to locate Space Force in Alabama. No real proof but speculation it’s payback against Tuberville. (E: f, b) I think it’s more likely that Colorado has, y’know, Colorado Springs as the Air Force place already established. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 17:32
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I AM GRANDO posted:Does rfk jr have positions other than “the Jews did covid”? He’s said things that are technically true but so broad that he gives no hint of what he’d do about them, like that the middle class is shrinking because of policies that favor the rich. What policies? He seems like a textbook crank. Most of his platform is either: - Having an honest President will cause everyone else to clean up their act after sitting down and talking to him. - Abortions for some, tiny American flags for others. quote:Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. has clear positions on most of today’s divisive trigger issues like abortion, guns, and immigration, but he knows that both sides have legitimate concerns and legitimate moral positions. No one is deplorable. Furthermore, most of the disagreements obscure deeper shared values. Everyone wants their children to be safe. Few relish the thought of dead fetuses, nor do they want to force women to have unwanted babies. Everyone wants safe streets, yet few wish for millions of people to languish in prison. Robert F. Kennedy will draw on the broad moral agreements beneath our divisions. He will model careful listening, and create conditions where each group can hear the stories of the other. He will lead the way toward national reconciliation, respectful dialog, and willingness to change, to grow, and to forgive. quote:In the case of race relations, reconciliation includes repairing the damage caused by centuries of bigotry. Our administration will take racial healing seriously through a program of Targeted Community Repair. Our operating principle is not guilt for the sins of one’s ancestors, but rather compassion. We will invoke the authentic desire in all Americans, white and black, liberal and conservative, to improve the condition of our Black and Native brothers and sisters. quote:America is more polarized and divided now than at any time in living memory. Both sides seem to agree that the basic problem is the horrible people on the other side. Both sides are wrong. The basic problem is the division itself. A divided public lacks the strength to resist exploitation or to overcome the inertia of the status quo. The classic American can-do spirit exhausts itself in endless battles. So let’s heal the divide. He also has plans to help alleviate healthcare costs by getting everyone to lose weight and use alternative medicine. quote:Healthcare spending per capita has increased twelve-fold since 1960. Are we twelve times healthier? Quite the contrary: We face today a terrible pandemic—not of Covid, but of chronic disease. Autoimmunity, allergies, diabetes, obesity, addiction, anxiety, and depression afflict two-thirds of the population, up from a few percent in our grandparents’ time. A Kennedy administration will go beyond making existing modalities available to all, to include low-cost alternative and holistic therapies that have been marginalized in a pharma-dominated system. We will move from a sick care system to a wellness society. https://www.kennedy24.com/heal
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