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Last Celebration posted:hosed up take imho, Blueblanc is rad. He's not even in this game!
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Aug 1, 2023 10:29
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Arist posted:He's not even in this game! Sorry, thought you were talking broadly since you mentioned Cold Steel in that sentence.
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Aug 1, 2023 10:40
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Oh I was, I'm just saying that's cold comfort for Azure lol
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Aug 1, 2023 10:43
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Azure has the only good main antagonist in the series though!
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Aug 1, 2023 10:58
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Tesseraction posted:Tried the download in the link and it Just Worked, thanks! I'm guessing that the Vita/Evo version doesn't have turbo, though, at least not from my experiment of pressing every button I could. Yeah that's the biggest flaw. And vita3k doesn't seem to have turbo like most emulators either, but considering it's recent progress(these games didn't work a month ago) here's hoping soon.
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Aug 1, 2023 13:35
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Azure has the only good main antagonist in the series though! Alan Richard was a good antagonist.
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Aug 1, 2023 14:49
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Richard was a decent villain, Weissman was fine for what he was, Osborne was cool in the first three CS games and then well lol Probably the only consistently good Cold Steel villain who’s good for the whole series is Rufus.
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Aug 1, 2023 15:00
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Speaking of Weissman, does it ever get explained how Ouroboros is iirc later explained to be an opt-in organization to the extent that one of the Enforcers are pretty much openly allowed to just take an extended leave of absence to be a ninja manservant and oppose the plans of other Anguis while doing do, but no one said “hey, that Enforcer’s been brainwashed into being a child super soldier, that’s kinda hosed”?
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Aug 1, 2023 15:07
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Weissmann called no take-backs
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Aug 1, 2023 15:09
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Azure has the only good main antagonist in the series though! Look, if we're talking about the same "main antagonist" in Azure he's only been revealed as such for about fifteen minutes so far for me, lmao
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Aug 1, 2023 15:45
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Azure has the only good main antagonist in the series though! If this is an argument for Dieter then I agree, although I will agree that Rufus and Osborne (until CS4, anyway) are both pretty good. If the argument is for literally any of the other villains in Azure then lmao absolutely not.
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Aug 1, 2023 15:50
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I thought Dieter was decent but I dunno about calling him the "main antagonist" given how the game rips the wind out of his sails after you fight him and he is immediately betrayed by the real villains
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Aug 1, 2023 15:56
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Last Celebration posted:Speaking of Weissman, does it ever get explained how Ouroboros is iirc later explained to be an opt-in organization to the extent that one of the Enforcers are pretty much openly allowed to just take an extended leave of absence to be a ninja manservant and oppose the plans of other Anguis while doing do, but no one said “hey, that Enforcer’s been brainwashed into being a child super soldier, that’s kinda hosed”? Yes, the answer is "the villains are liars and what they say to make themselves seem better than they are is bullshit." The same with how it gets claimed that Arianrhod is a totally honorable person who never betrayed her principles by simply pretending to not see said blatant child abuse being done in the open by her co-workers.
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Aug 1, 2023 16:27
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Last Celebration posted:Speaking of Weissman, does it ever get explained how Ouroboros is iirc later explained to be an opt-in organization to the extent that one of the Enforcers are pretty much openly allowed to just take an extended leave of absence to be a ninja manservant and oppose the plans of other Anguis while doing do, but no one said “hey, that Enforcer’s been brainwashed into being a child super soldier, that’s kinda hosed”? Everyone noted that Weissmann was basically skirting the edge of it to the point where everyone was absolutely tired of his poo poo. Said Enforcer technically had the option to refuse but had no other practical choices. But yes, as Weissmann notes in SC, he never forced anyone to do anything. (He just arranged the situation such that they felt they had no choice but to comply.)
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Aug 1, 2023 19:16
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What's your favorite Brave Order quote? I'm a big fan now of "Slay on sight! Criminal's Raid!"
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Aug 1, 2023 20:40
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Junpei posted:What's your favorite Brave Order quote? I kinda like the way Lapis yells "No touching!" for Palace Coppelion. I think it's her size relative to how authoritative she's trying to sound.
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Aug 1, 2023 21:36
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Artix posted:If this is an argument for Dieter then I agree, although I will agree that Rufus and Osborne (until CS4, anyway) are both pretty good. If the argument is for literally any of the other villains in Azure then lmao absolutely not. (endgame Azure spoiler) I was talking about Mariabelle. But her dad is cool too.
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Aug 1, 2023 22:01
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Cyouni posted:But yes, as Weissmann notes in SC, he never forced anyone to do anything. (He just arranged the situation such that they felt they had no choice but to comply.) That's still child abuse. The actual adults in Ouroboros should know that perfectly well, and turning a blind eye and letting him continue as if it has nothing to do with them makes them complicit. The same goes for the other abused children they took in and turned into or used as murderers.
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Aug 1, 2023 22:19
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i don't think anyone is disagreeing in that Ouroboros's plans and actions are sketch and evil Stabbey
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Aug 1, 2023 22:21
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Arist posted:He's not even in this game! I see someone hasn't played the secret questline
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Aug 1, 2023 22:23
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Junpei posted:What's your favorite Brave Order quote? It's still "Shatter! War hammer!" God knows I've heard it often enough over the past three games and it's somehow never gotten old
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Aug 1, 2023 22:26
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I did that quest, you know what I mean. The riddles are alright but I'm not counting it as an appearance unless I get full Bleublanc action, and he doesn't even appear in disguise in that one.
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Aug 1, 2023 22:26
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SyntheticPolygon posted:(endgame Azure spoiler) I was talking about Mariabelle. But her dad is cool too. (Endgame spoiler for Azure and CS4 Spoiler]Its weird that characters arc hasn't been touched in a while. She gets made an Anguis in CS4 and then just kind of sits out the next few games completely. I guess they really want Calvard to be Ellroys gig and she'll be relevant again when they do Remeria or a finale arc or something.
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Aug 1, 2023 22:50
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she'll be relevant when they do the predatory lesbian joke again
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Aug 1, 2023 22:52
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:That's still child abuse. The actual adults in Ouroboros should know that perfectly well, and turning a blind eye and letting him continue as if it has nothing to do with them makes them complicit. The same goes for the other abused children they took in and turned into or used as murderers. I'm sorry I was unaware Ouroboros was registered as a child welfare group But Ouroboros is less a coherent organization than a group of loosely-aligned factions and individuals that generally answer to the Grandmaster. So long as you don't go against them (what constitutes going against them has yet to be actually determined, because no one's actually been kicked out so much as decided to leave) or violate the one law they've put down, you can call yourself a member. Kale posted:(Endgame spoiler for Azure and CS4 Spoiler]Its weird that characters arc hasn't been touched in a while. She gets made an Anguis in CS4 and then just kind of sits out the next few games completely. I guess they really want Calvard to be Ellroys gig and she'll be relevant again when they do Remeria or a finale arc or something. Same spoiler Note that she was actually made an Anguis at the end of Azure (that's the position she took up), and then she's doing things offscreen in CS3 (Arteria) and onscreen in CS4. Cyouni fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 23:37
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Junpei posted:i don't think anyone is disagreeing in that Ouroboros's plans and actions are sketch and evil Stabbey I'm not sure that's true. The post I replied to had the tone of giving excuses. "Okay the society hadn't done anything to stop the ongoing abuse for years, but it's okay because no one really liked him and he was totally out of favor." And "the society never technically forced anyone." And most notably, the text of the games themselves disagrees by repeatedly asserting that Arianrhod never betrayed her principles and was a totally honorable and decent person. Cyouni posted:I'm sorry I was unaware Ouroboros was registered as a child welfare group How on earth is that supposed to be a sensible response? There isn't a binary choice between "be a child welfare group" and "groom vulnerable children to make them murderers useful for our plans." Those are not the only two possible options. quote:But Ouroboros is less a coherent organization than a group of loosely-aligned factions and individuals that generally answer to the Grandmaster. So long as you don't go against them (what constitutes going against them has yet to be actually determined, because no one's actually been kicked out so much as decided to leave) or violate the one law they've put down, you can call yourself a member. Don't give me that "not a coherent organization" stuff. They're not an isolated set of cells which maintain no contact with each other. They're not a motley assortment of small-time criminals in a loose collective which occasionally link up in different combos to knock over banks or pull scams. Ouroboros members work together on big, long-term, resource-intensive plans. They have teleconferences, for Aidios's sake. Dialogue indicates that the Anguis know what the others get up to, and the Enforcers seem to know a lot as well. It's clearly not a case of "gosh we had no idea what he was doing." You're also contradicting yourself by saying "As long as you don't violate their 'one law,' you're golden" and "Weissman was skirting the edge." You can't be skirting the edge as long as the Grandmaster still employs their services. In Sky the 3rd, Star Door 14, the Grandmaster clearly mourns the loss of Weissman as part of a great price they had to pay, nor did the Grandmaster (or anyone in the society) take action to stop Weissman, so he clearly wasn't THAT deep in her bad books. Not seeing any actual evidence of him being on the edge of punishment or dismissal. Kale posted:(Endgame spoiler for Azure and CS4 Spoiler and name spoiler for Kuro)Its weird that characters arc hasn't been touched in a while. She gets made an Anguis in CS4 and then just kind of sits out the next few games completely. I guess they really want Calvard to be Ellroys gig and she'll be relevant again when they do Remeria or a finale arc or something. Her arc was completed in Azure. (Azure end spoilers)Her whole thing was an attempt to re-create a lost Sept-Terrion which her greedy selfish family considered their own personal property. She did it, and it worked... for a while... then it stopped working because it was a stupid flawed plan which was never going to work in the first place. Her story seems to be done. Now she's just hanging around like a bad smell because good lord, Falcom just cannot let go of their characters. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 01:16
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Kale posted:(Endgame spoiler for Azure and CS4 Spoiler]Its weird that characters arc hasn't been touched in a while. She gets made an Anguis in CS4 and then just kind of sits out the next few games completely. I guess they really want Calvard to be Ellroys gig and she'll be relevant again when they do Remeria or a finale arc or something. They barely touched it in azure. The Finale of Azure was really good, but it basically has the same problem as CS4. The rest of the arc didn't do all that much lifting on plot that actually matters and the point where you'd explore her is the same point where the credits start basically, and like any other RPG series once the credits start the book closes violently enough to severe any remaining plot threads lol. I like the idea of Crois as antagonists to give Elie relevance and reason to be here..... but that never happened, so I mostly just like Dieter like another dude said.
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Aug 2, 2023 01:22
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I mean, I definitely also find Ouroboros incoherent, but maybe not in the way that poster meant
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Aug 2, 2023 01:40
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I think Ouroborous’s larger goals and whatever are extremely boring but most of its members are kinda funny and I enjoy spending time with them. So ultimately they’re pretty rad.
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Aug 2, 2023 01:50
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yeah if you get zero enjoyment about of Bleublanc, or McBurn? I unno, that's a you problem.
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Aug 2, 2023 01:58
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Ouroboros used to be fine and there's a couple great characters but they're also heavily involved with the worst parts of the series like the end of Act 2 in CS4. They were by far the best utilized in Sky 2 as an actual main antagonist even if the game relied way too much on no you didn't actually win at times.
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Aug 2, 2023 02:00
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They have genuinely only gotten better. They all kinda suck in SC. E: Renne and Bleublanc are cool but this is their weakest appearance.
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Aug 2, 2023 02:05
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Ouroboros is generally cool and good as characters/plot devices, and I find their weirdly inconsistent function and structure to be interesting rather than frustrating.
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Aug 2, 2023 02:15
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The worst part of getting Second Chapter late meant that I could never fully appreciate like one of the funniest gags in the series, Blueblanc in Cold Steel 1 bumming around out in the open with his disguise to just be not wearing his mask that only covers a third of his face anyway, despite being like the most infamous Enforcer in the series.
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Aug 2, 2023 02:16
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I'd be fine with Ouroboros if it was all, like, Bleublanc/McBurn/Campanella (but only when he's turning people into peppers). My problem is more that they suck all the air out of the room. They're basically omnipresent in a lot of the games, and I get it, you want to have a villain faction with more "out-there" power sets for later boss fights. But they have basically nothing to do with anything in the plot, very rarely have any personal connection to or investment in anything the heroes are doing (Bell and Sharon are I guess two notable counterexamples), and don't usually even seem to care that much about achieving their goals and mainly show up to act smug and convince the game I lost a boss fight I just won. It's like anti-drama. If they were just a weird boss faction who showed up for a fight or two each game to test the heroes or whatever with no major connection to the story, that'd be weird but I'd prefer it to them being all over the place and nothing seeming to matter. Though the bigger problem for me is probably just that I don't really care for eternally unflappable schemer type-characters and Ouroboros is like 90% those by weight. TL;DR: I believe Ouroboros are like dogs and just kind of do things arbitrarily
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Aug 2, 2023 02:18
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"no personal connection" he says as if the Bleublanc/Olivier, Luciola/Scherezard, Renne/Estelle and Tita, Walter/Zin, and Loewe/Joshua set-ups/pairings didn't exist.
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Aug 2, 2023 02:22
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Don't give me that "not a coherent organization" stuff. They're not an isolated set of cells which maintain no contact with each other. They're not a motley assortment of small-time criminals in a loose collective which occasionally link up in different combos to knock over banks or pull scams. Ouroboros members work together on big, long-term, resource-intensive plans. They have teleconferences, for Aidios's sake. Dialogue indicates that the Anguis know what the others get up to, and the Enforcers seem to know a lot as well. It's clearly not a case of "gosh we had no idea what he was doing." Stabbey_the_Clown posted:You're also contradicting yourself by saying "As long as you don't violate their 'one law,' you're golden" and "Weissman was skirting the edge." You can't be skirting the edge as long as the Grandmaster still employs their services. In Sky the 3rd, Star Door 14, the Grandmaster clearly mourns the loss of Weissman as part of a great price they had to pay, nor did the Grandmaster (or anyone in the society) take action to stop Weissman, so he clearly wasn't THAT deep in her bad books. Not seeing any actual evidence of him being on the edge of punishment or dismissal. Read what is said in the exact same door. "But if anyone should take the blame, it's we Anguis who chose to overlook his behavior rather than steer him back on the right track." "No... I half expected that this is what would happen. Yet I chose to leave all of the decisions in his hands. I did so because I believed that to be necessary for this world, but nonetheless...the blame is unequivocally mine." It's quite clear that no one in this conversation thinks the way Weissmann handled things was the correct method. Not to mention that CS4's hidden ending has First Anguis explicitly telling Mariabell to not do what Weissmann did.
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Aug 2, 2023 02:22
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Junpei posted:"no personal connection" he says as if the Bleublanc/Olivier, Luciola/Scherezard, Renne/Estelle and Tita, Walter/Zin, and Loewe/Joshua set-ups/pairings didn't exist. All of these were meaningfully resolved in Sky 2 and don't matter anymore except for Renne, who was resolved for as much as it's worth in the Crossbell games. They mean literally nothing and contribute nothing to any of the CS games and while McBurn is funny even he falls off by CS4. Duvalie is the only real consistently good thing related to them in the CS games.
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Aug 2, 2023 02:24
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Junpei posted:"no personal connection" he says as if the Bleublanc/Olivier, Luciola/Scherezard, Renne/Estelle and Tita, Walter/Zin, and Loewe/Joshua set-ups/pairings didn't exist. Lol that's what I get for not playing Sky yet
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Aug 2, 2023 02:25
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RevolverDivider posted:All of these were meaningfully resolved in Sky 2 Walter and Zin show up in the Kuro games. heck, Bleublanc and Luciola get something for Olivier and Schera in Reverie-in what by quite a solid opinion among the fanbase so far seems to be one of the VERY good Daydreams!
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Aug 2, 2023 02:26
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