|
Junpei posted:Walter and Zin show up in the Kuro games. I'm not sure the games I have no way of legally playing yet are a great counterexample, here
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 02:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 15:23 |
|
|
I think most Ouroborous members have personal relationships with the cast? I guess in Coldsteel, Bleublanc and Shirley don’t really but they’re ultimately pretty minor villains in coldsteel so I don’t think it’s that big a deal for them. Do agree they act arbitrarily like dogs though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 02:33
|
|
|
I'm honestly amazed everyone seems to have forgotten about Vita's entire existence.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 02:38
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:I'm honestly amazed everyone seems to have forgotten about Vita's entire existence. That's fair
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 02:39
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:I'm honestly amazed everyone seems to have forgotten about Vita's entire existence. she means life
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 02:39
|
|
|
Junpei posted:Walter and Zin show up in the Kuro games. heck, Bleublanc and Luciola get something for Olivier and Schera in Reverie-in what by quite a solid opinion among the fanbase so far seems to be one of the VERY good Daydreams! I haven't played the Kuro games or know anything about them besides the setting. walter and zin's stuff was resolved just fine in Sky and I don't need them to get focus again. same with Luciola and Schera. Bleublanc's still around and is fun but he and Oliver had their thing resolved in Sky as well. I like SC quite a bit, but these characters told the story they needed to tell in that game and it's ok if they aren't really used again. I'm shocked that Falcom hasn't cracked yet and revived Loewe since that seems inevitable. Vita is a fun twist in CS1 but she's also really, really boring a lot of the time and started the problem the CS games become addicted to where the villains are just loving around for the entire story which just makes it feel flat. Most of the interesting stuff with her like her relationship with Crow doesn't really get any focus. Part of why I like Weissman is that he was actually allowed to be a loving villain.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 02:43
|
|
|
Junpei posted:"no personal connection" he says as if the Bleublanc/Olivier, Luciola/Scherezard, Renne/Estelle and Tita, Walter/Zin, and Loewe/Joshua set-ups/pairings didn't exist. Was just gonna post exactly this. Also (spoilers for Azure, Cold Steel 3/4 and Kuro) Shirley/Rixia/Randy, Ellroy/Lucrezia/Sharon/Alisa, Mariabell/Elie, Arianhrod/Rean/Osborne, Cedric/Olivier/Alfin, Vita/Emma Kale fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Aug 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 03:21
|
|
|
Got to the end of the True Reverie Corridor and was informed it was a three-party boss and arggggggggh noooooo. I'm fully confident I can crush whatever the fight is when I have four party members at level 250 and I can turn off the "+100 enemy levels" modifier, it's just that after a whole game of the Quartz Set-Up Shuffle I'm very ready to not do that again any time soon. I'm glad I pushed through to at least the Thors Open House Daydream, that one was the best one in the game by a lot. I'm glad to see they gave Ash a fitting conclusion to his plot arc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 03:29
|
|
|
RevolverDivider posted:I haven't played the Kuro games or know anything about them besides the setting. walter and zin's stuff was resolved just fine in Sky and I don't need them to get focus again. same with Luciola and Schera. Bleublanc's still around and is fun but he and Oliver had their thing resolved in Sky as well. I like SC quite a bit, but these characters told the story they needed to tell in that game and it's ok if they aren't really used again. I'm shocked that Falcom hasn't cracked yet and revived Loewe since that seems inevitable. I find that to be a problem with female antagonists in anime/game stuff in general. It feels exceedingly rare for most of them to just stay actual villains no matter how rotten and despicable they appear to be at the outset. Somewhere some place along the line they often get tripped up and end up working their way into the hero protagonists party or ensemble and just kind of cease with any sort of villainous behavior almost altogether. It's probably a bit to do with the whole "waifu" trend and wanting to find a way to use them in that angle and make them playable or the character or to feature them in more stories where they can have positive interactions with the hero protagonist character whereas I don't think anybody particularly gives a drat if someone like (Spoilers for Liberl arc and Sky)Weissman stay a card carrying villain right to the end.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 03:32
|
|
|
Counterpoint: Shirley Orlando.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 03:36
|
|
|
Many male villains in Trails also become allies or “turn good”
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 03:39
|
|
|
Junpei posted:Counterpoint: Shirley Orlando. Not really. That said the character in question turning good is not remotely a 'female villain' thing, she just ends up being a really toothless villain. And boy is that not remotely a unique flaw to her when it comes to Trails villains. Like the majority of the villains turn good if they have unique designs or are revealed to never be villains at all
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 03:46
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Many male villains in Trails also become allies or “turn good” Yeah this series it's kind of a lot of both. Also somehow like 10+ games and 15+ years into an epic style narrative we still don't entirely know what Ouroboros motives are other than supposedly trying to "prevent the end of the world", whatever that means or entails. Heck the actual voice of it's leader was only revealed at the very end of a secret ending in Sky 3rd and we only actually finally see what she looks like at the end of CSIV and I think that was a secret ending too with the same angelic host type BGM instead of evil person music. Your also supposed to have a stigmata that indicates darkness in your soul or something and makes you super duper demi-god like powerful, but everyone that seems to have one resents it at the same time. It's all very ambiguous and while the individual stories of some of it's members are fleshed out not very much about it's motives and intentions are still beyond the vague mission statement and probably won't until the true nature of the Grandmaster is explored. My total stab in the dark guess if I had to though is she's some sort of survivor of the ancient Zemurian civilization that's observed the entire course of history up until now and is trying to prevent what happened to it from happening again in an ends justify the means type approach.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 03:55
|
|
|
They just need to make Trails of Duvalle already.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 04:15
|
|
|
This entire convo can be summed up with: We need more doors. Play as ourobourous doors. Play as dead people doors. Play as people in different countries doors.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 04:26
|
|
|
I would actually like some prequel material showing McBurn and Arionrhod interacting with Loewe while he was alive. Or Sharon interacting with Harwood and Lucretia.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 04:35
|
|
|
Junpei posted:I would actually like some prequel material showing McBurn and Arionrhod interacting with Loewe while he was alive. You can actually get (at least Arianrhod) in the Loewe Monogatari manga. That is, if you can ever get your hands on a copy. EDIT: Wait, since when was a translation available? I've been looking for this for ages.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 04:45
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:They just need to make Trails of Duvalle already. I assume you mean Duvalie, in which case: 
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 04:57
|
|
|
Trails of Duvalie would just be a dating sim where your only options are relentlessly bullying her.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 05:13
|
|
|
Junpei posted:"no personal connection" he says as if the Bleublanc/Olivier, Luciola/Scherezard, Renne/Estelle and Tita, Walter/Zin, and Loewe/Joshua set-ups/pairings didn't exist. Those were all SC. Every appearance afterward, though, it's just as Arist said. After Sky, they're really just there to gently caress around being vaguely menacing until the script says its time for them to get bored and wander off. I mean, sure Vita in CS 2 had a personal connection withEmma. It was something about Vita breaking some unknown taboo, which was a big huge deal, but you never find out what it was. I almost thought it was completely forgotten about, but I eventually found one throw-away line in CS 3 to shed any light: Vita stole the elder's staff. I think that was the taboo, maybe? Apparently all is forgiven after she returns it. No one seems to care about her wandering in and out or all the villainous stuff she did before. As for other new Enforcers/Anguis - (Azure/CS 4)Mariabelle, Shirley and Cedric all joined the society after their main story arc, with ties to someone in their games respective core casts was finished. Those main playable characters aren't likely to show up much again, so the villains have no one with close ties to play off of with anymore.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 05:31
|
|
|
And yet those enforcers have only returned in games where the former party members they’re connected to have also returned.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 05:45
|
|
|
...well, okay, apparently I was doing the Reverie Corridor final boss with the +100 levels effect still on. Could have sworn I turned that off before saving last time. Still managed to knock it down to 10% HP on its final form on Hard mode even with three cobbled-together teams hastily raised to level 200 with items, and with only one of my trained members on the last, hardest form. And then it turns out that it has the Azure final boss gimmick of "when it's low on HP, it kills you instantly," including your entire back-up team. The boss being based off of that final boss makes it something you can predict, but also, rear end in a top hat move to put on a multi-form boss that you're not fighting with your "real" party.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 07:40
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I mean, sure Vita in CS 2 had a personal connection withEmma. It was something about Vita breaking some unknown taboo, which was a big huge deal, but you never find out what it was. I almost thought it was completely forgotten about, but I eventually found one throw-away line in CS 3 to shed any light: Vita stole the elder's staff. I think that was the taboo, maybe? Apparently all is forgiven after she returns it. No one seems to care about her wandering in and out or all the villainous stuff she did before. She's been non-contact "missing" for 7 years, having abandoned the clan and particularly Emma when she was 10 and still recovering from the trauma of losing her mother to "just disappearing. The taboo itself is a witch allowed to wander not touching base.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 09:35
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:And yet those enforcers have only returned in games where the former party members they’re connected to have also returned. And - Kuro aside since I haven't played it - have those connections to returning party members meant anything more than "I recognize that person"? Great, in CS 4, Randy and Shirley, and Elie and Mariabell are in the same game together. Does the encounter change either the hero or villain, or demonstrate how either have changed as characters since their last encounter? Tesseraction posted:She's been non-contact "missing" for 7 years, having abandoned the clan and particularly Emma when she was 10 and still recovering from the trauma of losing her mother to "just disappearing. The taboo itself is a witch allowed to wander not touching base. It could be that. My gripe is that for a key element in how the relationship between those two characters fractured, CS 2 was being pointlessly vague about it. It's hard to emotionally connect with just "she broke a taboo" when I don't know how serious the behavior was, or what punishment there is for breaking it. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Aug 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 13:21
|
|
|
Just beat TitS 3, the third TitS, and these games rule. I put it off for a year or so after SC because I heavily dislike "it's all in a dream world and nobody but your characters is real" stories, but the writing was 90% on point and I loved the doors even if some of them drag on too long and one in particular has been giving me interesting and unpleasant dreams for three nights in a row. The character development throughout is predictable but is pulled off so well, and it really is a nice capstone to the series - it manages to do my other pet peeve of "spending half the narrative transparently trying to get you to buy into and pay for all the future entries" in a way that makes me genuinely intrigued rather than rolling my eyes. Very tempted just to binge the rest of the series now but man I wish these 15 year old PSP games were just a wee bit cheaper.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 14:27
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Does the encounter change either the hero or villain, or demonstrate how either have changed as characters since their last encounter? The Red Duo does in fact do that. And really that's the biggest flaw in the series, and most long series at that. Being pointlessly vague. The only long stuff that does it well generally releases daily so the 1500 chapter mystery is wrapped up in just a few years rather than decades. Lunchmeat Larry posted:Just beat TitS 3, the third TitS, and these games rule. I put it off for a year or so after SC because I heavily dislike "it's all in a dream world and nobody but your characters is real" stories, but the writing was 90% on point and I loved the doors even if some of them drag on too long and one in particular has been giving me interesting and unpleasant dreams for three nights in a row. The character development throughout is predictable but is pulled off so well, and it really is a nice capstone to the series - it manages to do my other pet peeve of "spending half the narrative transparently trying to get you to buy into and pay for all the future entries" in a way that makes me genuinely intrigued rather than rolling my eyes. Congrats, I hope you enjoy your future endeavors just as much. MythosDragon fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Aug 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 15:17
|
|
|
Reverie Final boss fight. HOT. loving. GARBAGE. What brainless moron thought it was a good idea to bring back the godawful loving GIANT ROBOT FIGHTS and then not even let you choose your loving supports on top of that??? What's the point about being told - repeatedly - to prepare more than just your active people for combat if the game's just going to do this which doesn't care about your setup?? Under 600,000 HP left. Half an hour down at least down the goddamn loving tubes. EDIT 2: About 50,000 HP left. Dead again! Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Aug 3, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 23:41
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Reverie Final boss fight. They made it absurdly easy, it is more like a victory lap than a real fight. I am pretty sure the boss literally can't output the damage to kill you unless you never heal
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 23:48
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:And - Kuro aside since I haven't played it - have those connections to returning party members meant anything more than "I recognize that person"? Great, in CS 4, Randy and Shirley, and Elie and Mariabell are in the same game together. Does the encounter change either the hero or villain, or demonstrate how either have changed as characters since their last encounter? I mean, they're pretty minor villains in the coldsteel games. Is it that big a deal to have a retuning villain in a relatively minor role?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2023 23:57
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:They made it absurdly easy, it is more like a victory lap than a real fight. I am pretty sure the boss literally can't output the damage to kill you unless you never heal Don't you loving call it "absurdly easy." I know how these stupid fights go. I'm healing as often as I loving can. It gets 5000% faster and starts spamming its stupid AoE murder thing and you only have 4 Res items. EDIT: Done, on the third attempt, with Crow/Ordine dead and unable to be rezzed, and the remaining ones almost dead. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Aug 3, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2023 00:06
|
|
|
You can change the supports can't you? You might have to do it when it's the supports turn though
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2023 00:12
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:They made it absurdly easy, it is more like a victory lap than a real fight. I am pretty sure the boss literally can't output the damage to kill you unless you never heal I also found it really rough tbh.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2023 00:13
|
|
|
stabbey gets really mad about these games
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2023 00:19
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Don't you loving call it "absurdly easy." I know how these stupid fights go. I'm healing as often as I loving can. It gets 5000% faster and starts spamming its stupid AoE murder thing and you only have 4 Res items. I admit I can only think of 2 AOE things and once can be Impeded and the other is effective forewarmed so you can block. I'm not trying to be a dick just that it really felt like it was just supposed to be a relatively fun beat it up and then get beaten until the Divine Knights come back to wreck its poo poo thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2023 00:20
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:I like Musse being a super genius because she’s an incredible prodigy much better than Lecter being super geniuses due to having a vaguely explained supernatural intuition. People can just be smart. Lechter is kind of funny because of how vague his powers are and how people react to them. Like near the end of Act 1 in CS4 Lechter shows his Anime Eyes and the party is like "oh no, his eyes!" and Lechter goes "heh, yeah my power is a bit unfair," and the whole tone of the scene seems to be that the characters understand what Lechter is doing, even though it makes no sense to the player. I think something similar might happen with Claire? One thing I forgot and kind of appreciated is that, in this same scene, Lechter actually does explain his (and presumably also Claire's) reasoning for his actions. He says that, after Millium died, he basically felt like he needed to follow through with the plan to not let her death be pointless. It's still stupid and wrong, but in a way that I can at least understand as a sympathetic character motivation. Their willingness to kill Altina in the first place, however, is still inexplicable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2023 00:35
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Their willingness to kill Altina in the first place, however, is still inexplicable. This is still utterly baffling to me, especially Millium's involvement in it. I just cannot make it make sense on any level.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2023 00:44
|
|
|
She was faking, so she could be in an opportune position to save her should Rean and pals fail. How did people not get that? Its not subtle. Lechter and Clare just didn't want to kill their little sis and so justifed the murder of her little sis as necessary in order spare Millium from having this role in the plan. Clearly hypocritical but interesting, wish more was done with it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2023 00:50
|
|
|
Arist posted:This is still utterly baffling to me, especially Millium's involvement in it. I just cannot make it make sense on any level. (CS3 endgame) Millium is literally working "with" them to spoiler the plan... hence her diving in when Rean fails to stop it. The others? Just shitheads.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2023 01:13
|
|
|
Endorph posted:stabbey gets really mad about these games There's something comforting about coming into a JRPG Games thread, when I mostly only come into Games for extremely grognardy CRPG threads about Solasta builds or whatever, and stabbey is reliably here being himself. Haven't seen him this amped up since Original Sin 2 came out
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2023 01:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 15:23 |
|
|
Honestly I think every story-driven game thread should have people who criticise the game from a point of care. Even if you can't change that game in question it can inspire the rest of us to think about how we could do it different.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2023 01:16
|
|