[Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

fizzy posted:

Good news for Ukraine - Ukraine has allies

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/02/ukraines-military-strategy-and-demands-have-tested-allies-patience.html

Ukraine has tested its allies� patience with its military strategy and demands
....

Britain�s Defense Secretary Ben Wallace perhaps unburdened by his forthcoming departure from the role, took umbrage at Zelenskyy�s comments,[/spoiler] say[spoiler]ing Kyiv should be mindful of war fatigue and skeptics among its allies questioning the massive amount of continued funding. The U.K., for one, he said, was not an Amazon warehouse that could supply endless weaponry to Kyiv when it was given a �shopping list.�
...

Out of all the NATO countries, UK is number on top of the list that has no right to complain about Ukraine's demand. UK should STFU and just overnight their janky weapons to Ukraine without farking a word of complaint.

Just Amazon prime them you gently caress head.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 18:16

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# ? May 25, 2024 07:10

dead gay comedy forums: Oct 21, 2011

Lostconfused posted:

It's just the education system failing tbh.

Would be simpler if it were just that. Credentialism has poisoned the development of professional qualification through education by itself for a while (that can be seen pretty well for example on tech), thinking that technical know-how in an institutional capacity isn't a very precious thing to have

There are companies who instead of falling for that bullshit simply foot the bill to train people and voil�, they fare much better. That argument of "not worth to train somebody for them to just leave the moment they get an offer" doesn't hold when costs are factored in - even in ridiculous estimates of rotation, the time and cost to get the desired skilled professional is way, way higher than forming one; especially because you can train multiple people at the same time instead of combing the market.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 18:23

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

speaking of the death of expertise...
End of the line for Russia and Ukraine�s partnership in rocketry

arstechnica.com posted:

Northrop Grumman's Antares rocket rolls out of its hangar at Wallops Island, Virginia. Its two Russian engines are visible on the back of the first stage.

A last gasp in a long-standing link between Russia and Ukraine in the field of rocketry could come this week in an unlikely place�the rural wetlands of eastern Virginia�halfway around the world from the battlefields where the nations' military forces are locked in a deadly conflict.

A commercial Antares rocket owned by the US aerospace and defense contractor Northrop Grumman is set for launch from Wallops Island, Virginia, as soon as Tuesday evening hauling an automated Cygnus supply ship into orbit on a mission to the International Space Station. When it takes off, the Antares rocket will be powered by two Russian-made engines affixed to the bottom of a first-stage booster built in Ukraine.

This is how Northrop Grumman has launched most of its 19 resupply missions to the space station since 2013, but this week's mission will be the last Antares flight to use Russian and Ukrainian components. Northrop Grumman has partnered with Firefly Aerospace, which has already built and launched a small satellite launcher of its own, to develop a new US-built first stage to replace the Ukrainian booster. Firefly will supply seven of its own engines, called the Miranda, to propel each of the new-generation Antares rockets into space.

Sanctions introduced after Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 severed most ties between Western companies and Russian industry, not to mention the deteriorating political support for such partnerships. It strained the relationship between the United States and Russia on the ISS, but for now, that program appears poised to continue flying through at least 2030.

Northrop Grumman lost access to the Russian RD-181 engines it was importing from a Moscow-area company called Energomash, one of Russia's pre-eminent rocket engine manufacturers. And the effects of the fighting in Ukraine threatened to interrupt the production of new Antares rocket bodies at a factory operated by Yuzhmash in Dnipro. The factory itself has been the target of Russian missile strikes.

## A long history

Russia and Ukraine have partnered on rocket programs since the dawn of the Space Age when they were parts of the Soviet Union. Factories in Ukraine produced ballistic missiles designed for Soviet nuclear attacks on the United States, and Ukraine churned out parts that went into rockets and satellites assembled in Russia.

When it started designing the Antares cargo rocket in the late 2000s, Orbital Sciences�a commercial space company now absorbed into Northrop Grumman�saw ready-made partners in Russia and Ukraine. Orbital Sciences went with two Ukrainian companies, Yuzhnoye and Yuzhmash, to build Antares boosters based on a design already used by the Zenit rocket, which had been flying since the 1980s with a mix of Ukrainian and Russian technology.

For the main propulsion system, Orbital Sciences decided on leftover NK-33 rocket engines from the Soviet N1 Moon rocket. That turned out to be a mistake, a lesson learned in 2014 when an engine failure caused an Antares rocket to explode just seconds after liftoff, destroying the Cygnus cargo freighter bound for the space station.

Engineers redesigned the rocket to use newly manufactured RD-181 engines from Russia's Energomash and launched three Cygnus resupply flights to the station with United Launch Alliance Atlas V rockets. The retrofitted Antares rocket configuration, the Antares 230, started flying in 2016 and has logged 12 successful launches in a row.

But those successes came as Russian-Ukrainian relations frayed. The last launch of a Zenit rocket, upon which the Antares design is based, occurred in 2017.

About a year ago, months after the Russian-Ukrainian conflict erupted into a hot war, Northrop Grumman announced it would design and develop an all-American Antares rocket with Firefly that could be ready to fly by the end of 2024. The company calls the version of the Antares rocket to be retired with this week's launch the Antares 230+, while the new variant with Firefly's booster stage will be named the Antares 330.

Kurt Eberly, Northrop Grumman's director of space launch programs, said Sunday that the Antares 330 rocket is now expected to launch no sooner than mid-2025. Until then, Northrop has purchased three Falcon 9 launches with SpaceX to continue flying Cygnus cargo ships to the space station at a rate of about twice per year. The first of the Cygnus cargo missions to fly on a Falcon 9 is scheduled to take off in December from Cape Canaveral, Florida.

SpaceX and Northrop Grumman each have multibillion-dollar contracts with NASA to deliver supplies and experiments to the space station. Unlike Northrop's Cygnus, SpaceX's Dragon cargo capsule can return equipment and scientific specimens to Earth.

�The first and foremost mission goal we have is to support the needs of the space station and the astronauts, so certainly when we have to pivot to a new launch vehicle... we�re more than happy to do that," said Steve Krein, Northrop Grumman's vice president of civil and commercial space programs. "We collaborate with our competitors all the time, and we�re certainly doing that with SpaceX here."

Under the terms of its firm-fixed price contractual arrangement with NASA, Northrop Grumman is on the hook for any extra expenses to carry out its cargo missions. In addition to paying the base price for a SpaceX launch, Krein said Northrop is paying for some modifications to the Falcon 9's payload fairing to accommodate the Cygnus spacecraft (presumably for late cargo loading), along with upgrades to ground facilities at Cape Canaveral. SpaceX's Dragon cargo flights do not use a payload fairing.

After flying the next three Cygnus resupply flights on SpaceX rockets, Northrop Grumman hopes the upgraded Antares 330 rocket will be ready for service. The current plan is to fly an operational Cygnus resupply mission on the inaugural flight of the Antares 330, but a lot of work remains to be completed on Firefly's Miranda engine, which hasn't been test-fired at full scale. Eberly said a Miranda test firing is scheduled to happen this fall.

Working in Northrop Grumman's favor is the fact that the Antares 330 design will incorporate the same solid-fueled upper-stage motor as the current Antares rocket configuration. That upper stage is built in-house by Northrop Grumman.

The new Antares 330 rocket will be able to loft heavier payloads into orbit, nearly 30 percent more than the soon-to-be-retired Antares 230 rocket. Ultimately, Northrop and Firefly want to evolve the Antares rocket into a still-unnamed medium-lift launch vehicle with a more powerful upper stage. The goal is to field a launch vehicle that can compete for military and commercial launch contracts with medium to large rockets being developed by Relativity Space and Rocket Lab.

"That�s going to really crank up the capability to around 16,000 kilograms (about 35,000 pounds) to low-Earth orbit, so that�s a doubling of the capability of the rocket that we�re currently flying," Eberly said.

Firefly has said the medium-lift rocket it's developing with Northrop Grumman "will evolve into a reusable vehicle" after initial flights as an expendable launcher.

This is not Northrop Grumman's first foray into building a larger rocket than the Antares. Northrop abandoned a proposed rocket called OmegA in 2020 after it lost�a lucrative military launch contract to ULA and SpaceX.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 18:30

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

sum posted:

Pretty grim reading on the enormous number of amputations in Ukraine. I cut a lot of the more graphic/less quantitative stuff.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-ukraine-a-surge-in-amputations-reveals-the-human-cost-of-russias-war-d0bca320

I tried to use this to estimate the number of Ukrainian military casualties, but the numbers I was getting seemed implausibly large (e.g., there were about 50 casualties per 1 amputee for both the UK in WW1 and the US in the GWOT, so this would imply 1 million - 2.5 million total casualties). On top of that there are annoying complications because these numbers are total amputations (i.e., military + civilian), it seems like the 50,000 figure might include amputations not caused by the war (according to this Reuters article, at least 11,500 prosthetics were fitted in Ukraine in 2021), etc. If you use the 50,000 figure, which seems like the best one since its based on actual data, and subtract about 15,000 "background" amputees, that would imply 35,000 amputations caused by the war.

There are two paths I would research, and if you want I can give you a battlefield medicine reading list from the DWAN:

First, the nature of wounds caused by blast injuries to personnel wearing frag vests.

Second, the fact that we almost certainly trained the Ukrainians in our methods of battlefield medicine, tourniquets, QuikClot and Role III in the Golden Hour but they can't MEDEVAC or CASEVAC by air, a concern that has been brought up endlessly in the military medicine journals since the 2010's. When stretchering out casualties by foot or ground ambulance our treatment protocols may not be enough to save those limbs.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 18:35

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Gresh posted:

loving lol if the US State Department is just totally cool with the Ukrainian ~~SBU~~ Gestapo kidnapping, imprisoning, torturing, and probably now murdering an American citizen(however lovely some of his views may be) for tweets/youtube videos in order to protect the facade of Ukraine being this bastion of liberal democracy/equality fighting an evil empire in order to keep western public support for this war up as long as possible.

you would be surprised how few shits the us state department gives about american citizens being hosed over by foreign governments

id actually go so far as to say thats the single most implausible thing madame secretary is doing is that so far every plot ive seen is "oh no some random american in a shithole country is in trouble quick light up the madame secretary signal"

# ? Aug 2, 2023 18:38

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Some Guy TT posted:

you would be surprised how few shits the us state department gives about american citizens being hosed over by foreign governments

yea it's like nobody's seen midnight express

# ? Aug 2, 2023 18:41

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

there is a reason the state department tells americans to get the gently caress out of a place, they won't do anything for you if you are there

# ? Aug 2, 2023 18:43

BadOptics: Sep 11, 2012

fizzy posted:

Good news for Ukraine - Ukraine has allies

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/02/ukraines-military-strategy-and-demands-have-tested-allies-patience.html

Ukraine has tested its allies� patience with its military strategy and demands
Published Wed, Aug 2 20231:19 AM EDT
Updated 5 Hours Ago

Ukraine�s relationship with its international partners has become increasingly complex, and it was perhaps inevitable that tensions and differences of opinion between Kyiv and its allies arose as the war with Russia dragged on.

Ukraine has to tread a fine line with its international friends. It is reliant on its partners for billions of dollars� worth of military hardware, as well as other forms of humanitarian and financial assistance, and it needs a continuous and increasing supply of arms to fight Russia. It insists, however, that it is fighting not only for its own survival but for the West too, facing a hostile and unpredictable Russia.

Kyiv�s biggest individual benefactors like the U.S. and U.K., who have given over $40 billion and $4 billion in security assistance to Ukraine, respectively, have pledged to support Ukraine till the end. The phrase �whatever it takes� has become a mantra often repeated at public gatherings of allies assessing the war and the military needs of Ukraine.

Kyiv has repeatedly thanked its partners for their help but, behind the scenes, frustrations have also come to a head and Ukraine�s ongoing needs and demands � and the military and political considerations of its allies � have clashed at times, prompting uncomfortable encounters[spoiler].

Most recently, [spoiler]tensions have emerged over Ukraine�s military strategy and demands on NATO. Ukraine�s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is said to have angered some allies ahead of the most recent NATO summit in Vilnius in July, when he described the lack of a timetable over the thorny issue of NATO membership, and �conditions� that needed to be met before an invitation to join was issued, as �absurd.�

For some officials in Washington and London, Zelenskyy�s decision to tell his staunch backers that Ukraine deserved �respect,� as NATO met to discuss additional support for Kyiv, was a step too far.

Britain�s Defense Secretary Ben Wallace, perhaps unburdened by his forthcoming departure from the role, took umbrage at Zelenskyy�s comments, saying Kyiv should be mindful of war fatigue and skeptics among its allies questioning the massive amount of continued funding. The U.K., for one, he said, was not an Amazon warehouse that could supply endless weaponry to Kyiv when it was given a �shopping list.�

Needless to say, Zelenskyy�s comments didn�t go down well in Washington either and the Washington Post reported sources noting that U.S. officials had been so roiled that they had briefly considered watering-down what Kyiv would be offered at the summit.

�The comments made by Zelenskyy before the last summit did not really resonate well in Washington ... the U.S. administration was very annoyed,� a source with knowledge of the matter who asked to remain anonymous due to the sensitivity of the situation, told CNBC.

The source noted that Washington had also been vexed by other episodes in the war in which Ukraine had seemingly ignored its advice, making the NATO episode more frustrating for the White House.

�So the U.S. is strongly advising Ukraine not to do certain things, but Kyiv does them anyway, brushing aside or not addressing U.S. concerns. And they come at the United States, or Washington or the Biden administration, complaining about not being involved in NATO talks,� the CNBC source said.

In the end, the NATO alliance stood firm behind Kyiv and stressed its unity, keeping its eyes on the bigger objective: Ensuring Russia does not �win� the war against its neighbor and becomes emboldened to attack other former Soviet republics. Still, the episode highlighted Ukraine�s need to tread a fine line between the demands and pressures it places on its allies and appreciating its partners� own perspectives, priorities and political considerations.

Drawing on his own experience of working in NATO, Jamie Shea told CNBC that support for Ukraine among its allies remains strong but that the Vilnius summit had highlighted points of vulnerability, and the need for diplomacy and compromise[spoiler].

�I think [spoiler]you always have to distinguish between the strategic level and the tactical level, and at the strategic, geopolitical level then Western support for Ukraine is still remarkably solid,� said Shea, former deputy assistant secretary general for Emerging Security Challenges at NATO and an international defense and security expert at think tank Chatham House.

″[But] obviously, at the tactical level, inevitably there are going to be problems and there have been, around the time of the NATO summit there were some some issues, there�s no doubt about that.�

Shea said Zelenskyy would have known that NATO would not be able to accede to Kyiv�s demands for a timetable on membership, or an invite to become a member of NATO while the war is ongoing. And by threatening to boycott the summit, Zelenskyy had played a risky strategy, Shea noted, potentially setting the meeting up for failure.

In the end, cooler heads prevailed: �The United States and the NATO allies worked overtime to convince him that he should look at the glass half full and at all the things that he was getting,� Shea noted.

�As it turned out, Zelenskyy got the message, he turned up in Vilnius and I think his advisors, because he has good advisors, told him that it wasn�t helping Ukraine and that �we can�t snub the only guys that are keeping us alive in terms of weapons and support.��

Shea noted that Ukraine�s position was a difficult one, however, and that there�s bound to be a gap between what the Ukrainians want and what the West is able to provide �and occasionally, that�s going to boil over into frustration.�

�The Ukrainians are in a difficult situation. Obviously, they�re playing for their existential survival, they�re always going to be unsatisfied in terms of needing more and more more the whole time. [Meanwhile] the West will always consider that it�s doing its best ... The key thing is to manage that [discrepancy] and prevent it doing lasting damage, and I think the Vilnius summit at least managed to prevent it doing lasting damage.�

It�s not only at a diplomatic level that Ukraine has irked its allies. Ukraine�s military strategy � and the symbolic value it has put on fighting for every piece of Ukrainian territory � has sometimes collided with its allies� military perspective and pragmatism.

Kyiv is believed to have annoyed the U.S. when it decided to continue fighting for Bakhmut, a town in eastern Ukraine that has found itself at the epicenter of fierce warfare between Russian and mercenary forces and Ukrainian troops for over a year.

Almost surrounded by Russian forces who then claimed to have been captured Bakhmut back in May, military analysts questioned whether Ukraine would, and should, beat a tactical retreat from the town that was not deemed of strategic value. Ukraine decided to fight on, however, with that decision causing consternation in the U.S., according to Konrad Muzyka, a military intelligence specialist and president of Rochan Consulting.

�The Americans were encouraging, to put it mildly, the Ukrainians not to fight certain battles in the way that Russia wanted them to fight, as it could have long-term consequences in terms of manpower losses and artillery ammunition expenditure. However, for Kyiv, Bakhmut was more than a city. It was a symbol of Ukrainian defiance even though its strategic value was questionable,� Muzyka told CNBC.

″[But] the result is that they�ve lost a lot of men, and very experienced personnel as well. They expedited a lot of artillery munition, which would otherwise be used for this counteroffensive, and lastly, they burned out a lot of barrels for their guns, meaning they are unable to fully support their forces in the Bakhmut area.�

Retired British General Richard Barrons defended Ukraine�s approach to Bakhmut, telling CNBC that, domestically, �Bakhmut matters� for Kyiv. Defending the town appeared to be part of Ukraine�s wider �starve, stretch and strike� strategy, the former commander of the U.K.�s Joint Forces Command noted, in which it sought to wear down the Russian occupiers, attacking reserves, ammunition supplies and logistics, and to stretch Russian forces along the 600-mile front line.

Now, anticipation is rising for the �strike� part of the strategy with speculation mounting that Ukraine has just started to commit a portion of its reserve forces, including NATO-trained and NATO-equipped brigades, for a big push in an attempt to break through Russian defenses in southern Ukraine.

�We think we are about to see, but not necessarily, that uncommitted force being committed in an attempt to make a major inroad into the Russian occupation,� Barrons said, but he added that Ukraine should resist pressure from its allies to produce quick results, or to commit such forces before the conditions are right.

�Ukraine feels under pressure from his Western backers, to show progress in this counteroffensive, to prove to itself and the rest of us that this war can be won on the battlefield,� he said.

�But a sounder approach is to do things when when the time and timing is right. The very worst outcome for Ukraine would be that they would take this uncommitted force and batter it to pieces on the front end of Russian fortifications they�ve not been able to break through. That would be a tragedy for the people taking part and a tragedy this year for the Ukrainian campaign.�

Some real Slava in that article, thanks!

# ? Aug 2, 2023 18:53

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

sum posted:

Pretty grim reading on the enormous number of amputations in Ukraine. I cut a lot of the more graphic/less quantitative stuff.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-ukraine-a-surge-in-amputations-reveals-the-human-cost-of-russias-war-d0bca320

I tried to use this to estimate the number of Ukrainian military casualties, but the numbers I was getting seemed implausibly large (e.g., there were about 50 casualties per 1 amputee for both the UK in WW1 and the US in the GWOT, so this would imply 1 million - 2.5 million total casualties). On top of that there are annoying complications because these numbers are total amputations (i.e., military + civilian), it seems like the 50,000 figure might include amputations not caused by the war (according to this Reuters article, at least 11,500 prosthetics were fitted in Ukraine in 2021), etc. If you use the 50,000 figure, which seems like the best one since its based on actual data, and subtract about 15,000 "background" amputees, that would imply 35,000 amputations caused by the war.

They also report the total number of "seriously injured" by the war, so you could make some assumption there. Three wounded per dead puts you at like 70,000 dead. They report that theres anywhere from 4 to 7 "seriously injured" soldiers per dead soldier in that article, which sounds like a normal ratio, so maybe anywhere from 30k to 70k.

OctaMurk has issued a correction as of 19:01 on Aug 2, 2023

# ? Aug 2, 2023 18:58

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

OctaMurk posted:

They also report the total number of "seriously injured" by the war, so you could make some assumption there. Three wounded per dead puts you at like 70,000 dead. They report that theres anywhere from 4 to 7 "seriously injured" soldiers per dead soldier in that article, which sounds like a normal ratio, so maybe anywhere from 30k to 70k.

I would say 230-70k causalities would probably be the floor in Ukraine's case according to the article at least (admittedly, Bakhmut/the counter-offensive were both pretty bloody so they may not have that data). They also said 10% of all serious injuries require amputations, which suggests probably a higher figure than that (it is still very high).

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 19:07 on Aug 2, 2023

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:03

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

Ardennes posted:

I would say 230-70k causalities would probably be the floor in Ukraine's case according to the article at least (admittedly, Bakhmut/the counter-offensive were both pretty bloody so they may not have that data).

So are you just assuming there is a lot worse ratio of wounded to dead than other conventional wars, or that theres just a lot more casualties than the article suggests?

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:07

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

OctaMurk posted:

So are you just assuming there is a lot worse ratio of wounded to dead than other conventional wars, or that theres just a lot more casualties than the article suggests?

The article itself states it was the lower end of total estimated casualties, but a 10% amputee ratio would suggests higher.

I would say the band is probably closer to 200-370k with 30-90k dead, 230-460k total causalities (not counting prisoners/desertion) if there are 37,000 or so military causalities.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 19:19 on Aug 2, 2023

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:13

VoicesCanBe: Jul 1, 2023; "Cóż, wygląda na to, że zostaliśmy łaskawie oszczędzeni trudu decydowania o własnym losie. Jakże uprzejme z ich strony, że przearanżowali Europę bez kłopotu naszego zdania!"

Some Guy TT posted:

you would be surprised how few shits the us state department gives about american citizens being hosed over by foreign governments

id actually go so far as to say thats the single most implausible thing madame secretary is doing is that so far every plot ive seen is "oh no some random american in a shithole country is in trouble quick light up the madame secretary signal"

I'm not remotely surprised that the state department didn't lift a finger for Coach Red Pill

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:16

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Gonzalo would be eating burgers in the White House by now if Trump were commander in chief

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:19

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

The guy may pop up eventually, but next year is an election year, it wouldn't be a smart thing for an American citizen to get whacked especially one vocal about the Ukrainian war. He may just be held, obviously, but that is red meat for Trump's base.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 19:54 on Aug 2, 2023

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:21

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Ardennes posted:

The guy may pop up eventually, but next year is an election year, it wouldn't be a smart thing for an American citizen to get whacked especially one vocal about the Ukrainian war. He may just be holding, obviously, but that is red meat for Trump's base.

i don't think anyone would get that worked up over it

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:25

January 6 Survivor: Jan 6, 2022; The
Nelson Mandela
of clapping
dusty old cheeks

( o(

I hope I live long enough to explain to my grandkids Trump the 1st was elected the second time in no small part due to the capture of Coach Red Pill and then my kids will just yank the plug so hard on whatever machinery was keeping me alive.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:25

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1686727572967575552?s=46&t=UyfxoSAUKW7QZlR_GhkuYA

coach Deadnamepill owned daily show style

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:28

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

s buh oo

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:30

sum: Nov 15, 2010

Frosted Flake posted:

There are two paths I would research, and if you want I can give you a battlefield medicine reading list from the DWAN:

First, the nature of wounds caused by blast injuries to personnel wearing frag vests.

Second, the fact that we almost certainly trained the Ukrainians in our methods of battlefield medicine, tourniquets, QuikClot and Role III in the Golden Hour but they can't MEDEVAC or CASEVAC by air, a concern that has been brought up endlessly in the military medicine journals since the 2010's. When stretchering out casualties by foot or ground ambulance our treatment protocols may not be enough to save those limbs.

Sure, that would be helpful.

I think that you're right that wounded Ukrainian soldiers are probably experiencing more amputations than Western militaries in recent wars. Based on the 5 or so wars I've found data for, the amputee wounded ratio to total casualty ratio seems to have been steady at 1-2% for Western militaries since WWI, which makes it seem like battlefield medicine improvements, the change from peer war to counter-insurgent war, improvements in body armor availability etc. have all somehow canceled each other out such that the amputation rate stays the same. I bet that more Ukrainian soldiers are surviving their injuries (compared to e.g. GIs in WW2) but not receiving treatment fast enough to save their limbs.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:30

VoicesCanBe: Jul 1, 2023; "Cóż, wygląda na to, że zostaliśmy łaskawie oszczędzeni trudu decydowania o własnym losie. Jakże uprzejme z ich strony, że przearanżowali Europę bez kłopotu naszego zdania!"

Ardennes posted:

The guy may pop up eventually, but next year is an election year, it wouldn't be a smart thing for an American citizen to get whacked especially one vocal about the Ukrainian war. He may just be holding, obviously, but that is red meat for Trump's base.

Nah that guy is a goner. The US will just pretend he doesn't exist, and on the rare occasions that any press asks about it they'll offer a noncommittal answer to dismiss it.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:32

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1686727572967575552?s=46&t=UyfxoSAUKW7QZlR_GhkuYA

coach Deadnamepill owned daily show style

a transgender woman from nevada defending the actual nazi battalion and then becoming spokesperson of the ukrainian army, was one of the unexpected outcomes of this war

also gonzalo is an idiot imo. bit late to try to escape ukraine bud lol

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:33

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

is Gonzalo also a ufo guy?

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:37

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

oh wait nm

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:37

VoicesCanBe: Jul 1, 2023; "Cóż, wygląda na to, że zostaliśmy łaskawie oszczędzeni trudu decydowania o własnym losie. Jakże uprzejme z ich strony, że przearanżowali Europę bez kłopotu naszego zdania!"

The reporter who wrote that article about Ukranian amputations almost certainly didn't realize that the information could be extrapolated to determine a decent (though rough) estimate for total casualties.

And it's not exactly good news for Ukraine.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:41

Pomeroy: Apr 20, 2020

mawarannahr posted:

is Gonzalo also a ufo guy?

He's a vocal Pinochet defender, he's talked openly about his family's ties to high up coup plotters. Frankly, I hope he's experiencing as intimately as possible the policies that he claims "saved his country."

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:42

lobster shirt: Jun 14, 2021

mawarannahr posted:

is Gonzalo also a ufo guy?

hes coach redpill

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:43

Jel Shaker: Apr 19, 2003

coach red pill double double dared the ukrainian government to do something, but forgot these guys murdered their own negotiator so

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:50

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

VoicesCanBe posted:

Nah that guy is a goner. The US will just pretend he doesn't exist, and on the rare occasions that any press asks about it they'll offer a noncommittal answer to dismiss it.

Biden, will, but it is unclear if Trump would. Cspammers don't like him, but that doesn't mean Trump's base isn't more open.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:56

Tsitsikovas: Aug 2, 2023

Ardennes posted:

The guy may pop up eventually, but next year is an election year, it wouldn't be a smart thing for an American citizen to get whacked especially one vocal about the Ukrainian war. He may just be holding, obviously, but that is red meat for Trump's base.

They left Brittany Griner in jail for a long while and shes way more a public figure than random internet person no one with actual social capital even knows exists. She was in the tabloids and everything. Meanwhile this dopey right winger who looks like yet another twitter meme? He is way way too low stakes to put actual energy in. If its red meat its a poo poo cut of meat.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:57

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

Looking at the replies and its very cool how bullshit from 2014 has resulted in the western left backing & defending nazis, bolstering conservative talking points through sheer obligation

Obama owning the left for decades to come

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:57

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Slavvy posted:

Bradley is a mediocre ifv by virtue of being large and tall yet having poor carrying capacity, and it's expensive. Being expensive sets the expectation that it's substantially qualitatively better than a bmp2/3 by the same margin and it just isn't. So a pretty typical, ordinary western vehicle really.

It's got excellent optics and fire control and they've absolutely plastered the things in ERA bricks now, though. The cost bloat is just typical western MIC grifting that applies to everything including ammo for small arms.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:58

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

I should have gone into military medicine, you can get into journals for some "groundbreaking research".

Fent bad, pushups good. Also probably a Fort Bragg connection for the Epstein Thread heads.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:00

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Neurolimal posted:

Looking at the replies and its very cool how bullshit from 2014 has resulted in the western left backing & defending nazis, bolstering conservative talking points through sheer obligation

Obama owning the left for decades to come

yes but
https://twitter.com/axios/status/1683961765569216517

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:00

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

Tsitsikovas posted:

They left Brittany Griner in jail for a long while and shes way more a public figure than random internet person no one with actual social capital even knows exists. She was in the tabloids and everything. Meanwhile this dopey right winger who looks like yet another twitter meme? He is way way too low stakes to put actual energy in. If its red meat its a poo poo cut of meat.

one of the worst nba related trades imo

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:02

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

The Oldest Man posted:

It's got excellent optics and fire control and they've absolutely plastered the things in ERA bricks now, though. The cost bloat is just typical western MIC grifting that applies to everything including ammo for small arms.

The issue is that, from what I understand, what you want out of an IFV is carrying capacity, speed, and a low profile. The idea being they shouldn't be in combat for very long at all, just enough to drop off guys near the frontlines.

By contrast, the Bradley is a large loud homermobile that doesn't carry that much & probably loses in a fight w/ anything that costs as much as it. For what it's intended it's not as bad as it could be, the issue is what it's intended for is stupid

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:02