USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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Kalli: Jun 2, 2001

Tree Reformat posted:

Normal people won't start turning against the strikers until like winter when they start to realize there's nothing worth watching for the spring season. And even then, they'll probably just focus on sports or k-dramas or whatever.

Anyway, obvious tactic by the studios to undermine actors' position by "negotiating" with the WGA first, gently caress 'em.

It's been a running bit for a few years now that streaming services have a billion shows and movies you've never heard of due to atomization. Normies are just going to 'discover' peacock or apple tv or whatever and watch stuff in their backlog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q2G9QePGoI

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the studio execs were absolutely solidly convinced that AI would solve their problems, public opinion would be on their side, and if all else fails the government would crush the strikers again. Maybe one of those might be a reasonable assumption but kinda lol the strike is literally of people whose job is to be charismatic and convincing.

I don't think they really view it as a seriously actionable threat in the short term, but by threatening it and making a big show of that being a huge sticking point, it forces give in other areas to get it killed off.

See it all the time in major sports CBA's, where every little unimportant thing is fought tooth and nail by the owners, because if you extract teeth over every little bit of legalizing weed or practice time, you can shave another hundred million off from the tv rights to their pockets.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 18:43

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# ? May 25, 2024 09:51

Baronash: Feb 29, 2012; So what do you want to be called?

haveblue posted:

This is a bit of a change of strategy for the studios, who were previously on board with a plan to "allow things to drag on until union members start losing their apartments and losing their houses" (this is a direct quote from an anonymous studio executive). Maybe having a famous biker gang leader responding with "there's a lotta ways to lose your house" made them decide that's not a path to go all the way down.

If starving them out was truly their strategy and not just a threat, there wouldn't have been any reason to state it publicly.

I'm of the mind that it has taken them so long to come back to the table because the AMPTP is a really big tent and your Netflixes and your Lionsgates probably have wildly different pain points and areas they're willing to compromise on.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 18:48

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

Robert Bowers, the perpetrator of the 2018 Tree of Life synagogue shooting that killed 11 people, has been sentenced to death. He was convicted on all 63 charges related to the attack, including 11 counts of murder and 11 counts of hate crime.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:11

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

koolkal posted:

I'll admit I'm not anywhere near knowledgeable about this but isn't SAG-AFTRA essentially the strongest union considering they have the literal faces of Hollywood? It seems like it would be a lot easier to poo poo over the WGA by signing an agreement with SAG-AFTRA than vice-versa. Even if the writers make a deal, you still have everyone's favorite movie and TV stars blasting execs.

SAG going on strike effectively shuts hollywood down. The teamsters don't cross picket lines, and if you've ever seen how many trucks it takes to do even a TV show, that's relevant.

Pausing a tentpole movie for even a few weeks is a huge financial loss as well, both in direct loss and loving up the schedule several years out.

Also anecdotally the people of LA are hugely in support of the strikers so you every time you drive up to the studio you're getting a chorus of honking cars and people yelling support.

And I guess Dwayne Johnson donated a huge pile of money to SAG's strike fund yesterday.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 19:55

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Politico has a very interesting special where they brought together 50 mayors from big cities in the U.S. to discuss why their cities have problems with housing and why they haven't been able to fix it.

It's a pretty interesting look at the views of the people directly on the ground and with the most impact on the housing crisis.

- Some of them seem to be completely delusional.

One says that the main problem is the lack of land and also rules out the idea that they can build more than one housing unit - i.e. a duplex or apartments - on a single piece of land.

30% said their city does not need significantly more housing.

- Some seem to realize the problems and are trying to tackle it in various ways, but admit that it will take a while to make up a deficit caused by 30 years of under-construction and population increases.

- Some of them seem to realize the problem, but have decided that it pisses off too many people and just given up because it isn't worth it.

It's a very long article with interviews, polls, and quotes from all the 50 mayors (one from each state), but definitely worth a read.

The scale of the housing issue in Burlington, Vermont (less than 1% vacancy rate, average housing price has doubled in 5 years, no new construction, a house in Burlington is over 50% more expensive than the national average despite low CoL in Vermont, etc.) was the most surprising part to me.

The other is that California and New York have similar levels of homelessness, but California has more than twice as many people living on the streets. There seems to be some failure of policy at the state and local level in California cities compared to New York.

quote:

How the pandemic spurred a housing crisis in cities across the nation

BURLINGTON, Vt. � Nearly all of the nation�s housing challenges are on display in the unlikely pandemic boom town of Burlington, Vermont: Skyrocketing housing costs. Chronic homelessness. Too few homes to rent or buy.

And an influx of new residents that arrived during the pandemic � a mix of remote workers, wealthy second-home owners and retirees. The population spike local leaders long yearned for is colliding with decades of failed housing policies.

Mayor Miro Weinberger says that if his city isn�t smart, this is just the beginning. He�s been waging a sometimes lonely campaign to raise the profile of housing issues during his decade-plus in office. But he�s been hamstrung by red tape and sticky housing politics � most prominently with a giant piece of dirt nicknamed �the Pit� that sat empty for years as the city got wrapped up in a messy development project that finally got off the ground last year.

We asked 50 mayors what they believe are the biggest challenges to building affordable housing. Here�s what some of them said:

quote:
�Land�

�Lack of funding�

�Public perception�

�NIMBY pushback�

�Lack of willing developers�

�Fear of change�

�Rules and red tape�

�Labor shortage and supply chain issues�

�Way too hard to build homes�

�We�re going to have a lot more people here, and if we don�t embrace housing abundance these issues are going to get more and more acute and we�re going to increasingly become a place where only people with very high financial means or huge government supports can afford to live,� says Weinberger, a Democrat who worked on affordable housing for a decade before being elected mayor.

�That�s not a good future.�

Weinberger is one of 50 mayors POLITICO has assembled in 2023 to shine a light on the challenges their communities face and offer lessons they�ve learned on the job. Throughout the year, members of the inaugural Mayors Club � one from every state � will share their perspective on key issues that weigh on them and their peers, in both surveys and interviews. We�ll hear directly from leaders who are far from Washington�s corridors of power, representing cities and towns big and small, urban and suburban.

The latest topic we asked the Mayors Club about : Housing and homelessness. Their responses underscored that many Americans continue to struggle to rent or purchase homes � a long term problem worsened by a pandemic that turned the U.S. real estate market upside down. Housing costs continue to be the main driver of inflation, rising twice as fast as everything else, and putting home ownership out of reach for many. A lack of affordable homes throughout the U.S. poses a profound crisis for local elected officials � and threatens the viability of the communities they lead.

Here�s what our mayors told us:

More than 70 percent said their cities need �significantly more� housing.

There is a huge lack of affordable midmarket and workforce housing in the U.S. In some places the need for middle class housing is even greater than the demand for low-income, affordable housing.

A lack of funding and the limited availability of land are the biggest barriers to building more housing.

The solutions proposed by most mayors: encourage construction of more affordable housing units, offer tax incentives to private developers and convert existing buildings into low-cost housing.

�It�s just the new reality,� said Mayor Hailey Morton Levinson of Jackson, Wyoming, another small city that experienced a huge uptick in people purchasing luxury homes during the pandemic.

Jackson is now home to the most expensive zip code in the nation.Teton County, which includes the city, has the highest income disparity in the U.S. In 2022, the average price for a single-family home in the county was $5 million. Two years prior, it was about half that amount.

The high cost of housing compromises residents� ability to live and work in their communities in Jackson and throughout the country, said Levinson, a Democrat. Leaders are particularly concerned about how the influx of wealthy residents is making it more difficult for service sector employees to live within Jackson. That�s why the city is relying more on workforce deed restrictions in new construction to set aside a percentage of units for renters who work locally.

�If you don�t have those that can invest in the community and stay for the long term, what does that mean for our kids or the next generation?�� she said.

Lured by a quiet pace of life, as well as a thriving arts and recreation community, out-of-staters � nicknamed �flatlanders� by locals � have flocked to Vermont over the past few years, some escaping overcrowded Covid-19 hot spots in cities up and down the East Coast. More than 7,300 people came to Vermont from April 2020 to July 2022 � a population spike of 12 percent, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

It�s a sharp change for a state that has long struggled to retain residents to balance an aging, shrinking workforce.

Now, the people have arrived. There�s just not enough attainable homes to rent or buy.

The rental vacancy rate in Chittenden County, home to Burlington, hovers at less than 1 percent. Meanwhile, the median home sale price has more than doubled in the last five years, hitting $615,000 in May.

�This has become a popular place to live,� said Michael Monte, CEO of the Champlain Housing Trust, an organization that develops affordable homes. �It has exacerbated the pricing. It has no value to anybody to have housing be so expensive. It just doesn�t make sense.�

That�s why Weinberger, Burlington�s mayor for more than a decade, knows the city must dramatically increase its housing stock. He�s been pushing for the city and state to ease permitting regulations to speed development and encourage multi-use properties with a mix of affordable and mid-market housing.

�We have a serious, acute housing problem,� said Weinberger. �It's been building for decades. The problem is fundamentally a housing supply problem that is not entirely but in large part a function of Burlington and Vermont being way too hard to build homes in.�

Complex and restrictive land use laws are to blame, according to Weinberger. He has worked to streamline the city�s permitting process to make it easier on developers and is currently exploring how to change zoning regulations to allow for more �missing middle housing� within existing neighborhoods, such as duplexes and cottage courts.

Before he entered politics, Weinberger�s career was spent in housing, starting with his first job out of college working for Habitat for Humanity. That experience is what began to show him how a lack of housing is often the root of all other problems for a city.

�I was a little bit of a lonely voice pushing for more housing when I first got elected,� he said. �There�s been an enormous sea change over the last eleven years in terms of people's understanding of how fundamental this issue is to so much.�

Vermont Gov. Phil Scott, a Republican, signed legislation this year that aims to hasten the pace of housing development by removing some permitting requirements developers have complained impede projects and allowing higher density development. But some critics like affordable housing advocates say the law doesn�t go far enough to wipe out unnecessary mandates, like entirely eliminating parking minimums instead of simply easing them, and represents modest progress.

Local housing organizations and leaders have pursued multiple campaigns to build more houses in Chittenden County. The latest goal set in 2021 is to construct 5,000 new homes over the next five years, with 1,250 of those homes being permanently affordable.

A fitting metaphor for Burlington�s development headaches can be found in its central downtown, the location of a stalled major project that�s become a visual and political albatross.

In 2014, a deal was struck between a private developer and local leaders to build Burlington�s CityPlace, a development intended to revamp its shopping and residential core. It was the kind of dense, mixed-use project that housing experts rally behind, with its 400 apartment units, 80 of which are designated as affordable based on percentage of median income.

But it failed to get off the ground for years as it was mired in legal troubles, financial uncertainty, design changes and a rotation of different developers. A giant dirt patch has sat largely untouched for years in the middle of downtown Burlington � dubbed �The Pit� by locals.

After lengthy wrangling between various developers, the mayor and the city council, construction finally began last year and it is slated to be completed in 2025. Weinberger stands firm that pursuing the development was the right move for Burlington. When finished, it will be the city�s largest property tax parcel and stands to bring in hundreds of thousands in annual tax revenue. Weinberger pointed out that, despite the criticism, Burlington is protected from financial risk thanks to negotiated agreements with the developers.

But he said he feels his biggest mistake is not clearly communicating with the public that a development project of that scale would likely be subject to setbacks and delays.

�I don�t think I brought the whole city along to understand that�s what's going on here.�

More than half of the 50 mayors in The Mayors Club think incentivizing private developers is the best way to fund affordable housing initiatives.

29 mayors mentioned incentivizing private developers

14 mayors mentioned seeking federal or state grants/funding

Three mayors mentioned increasing property taxes

Two mayors mentioned a new tax on luxury real estate

Two mayors mentioned no interest in funding these initiatives

Beyond Burlington, some want to see attention paid to other parts of the state to ease pressure on the housing market in its largest city. Richard Watts, director of the Center for Research at the University of Vermont, wants the state to encourage new residents to live in downtowns throughout Vermont, noting there are more than 250 small towns. Making them more enticing to newcomers would involve investing in arts and culture as well as rolling out a state-supported remote work program, he said.

�We absolutely need to grow,� Watts said. �We need to grow in multiple ways, not just adding people who can compete in the housing market but folks from all different types of backgrounds.�

�Bring your job here but don�t necessarily move to Chittenden county,� he said.

�The problem is enormous, it�s complex�
San Diego�s homelessness crisis is nearly at a breaking point.

California has the country�s highest rate of homelessness, and in San Diego the number of people without permanent shelter jumped by 14 percent just this year. There are more than 5,000 people experiencing homelessness in the coastal city, about half of whom do not have any shelter at all. There are more than 10,000 homeless people in San Diego county, an increase of 22 percent from last year.

Combating homelessness is the �number one issue� for the city, San Diego Mayor Todd Gloria, a Democrat, said in an interview.

California�s �sunshine tax� explains why it�s one of the most expensive states to live in � many people are drawn to its warm weather, sunny beaches and sprawling suburbs. The average cost of a home in San Diego was $910,000 in May 2023.

Those steep housing prices are against the backdrop of extreme income inequality: a recent San Diego neighborhood-by-neighborhood analysis found a median income of $41,520 in the poorest part of the city compared with a median income of $78,980 in the city overall � a gap that�s increased since 2015.

�We�re trying to address it from all directions, but the problem is enormous, it�s complex, it�s the thing I spend the most amount of time on,� Gloria said.

About a quarter of mayors in The Mayors Club reported they experienced homelessness or housing insecurity at some point in their lives. We asked some of them to share how that experience has influenced their leadership.

quote:
�Because of my own personal experiences, I continue to make sure that as we go forward with growth and development that we�re not shutting out our most vulnerable populations or creating a situation where people who come here get pushed out.�

� Joshua Garcia, mayor of Holyoke, Massachusetts

quote:
�Even though I was struggling to get by, there were people who were listening to me and gave me a second chance. Everybody deserves a second chance and the right to be heard.�

� Mitch Roth, mayor of Hawaii County, Hawaii

What�s happening in San Diego is the story of how skyrocketing housing costs coupled with factors like drug addiction, lack of access to mental health services and an unstable job market has left more people living on the streets across the country. And it�s become a politically hot topic in recent elections as candidates blame each other for the mounting problem.

In California, Gloria and neighboring mayors have sparred over the right way to address the issue. Coronado Mayor Richard Bailey claims his city has no homeless population in part because of its zero tolerance policy on encampments. The Republican mayor has gone after Gloria�s �Housing First� plan as a failure that has only heightened its challenges.

San Diego�s homelessness support network is buckling under the stress of thousands of people, many of whom travel from other parts of the county. The city has 57 percent of the San Diego region�s homeless population and 85 percent of its shelter beds. Many of its neighboring cities are seeing increases in homelessness but don�t have the capacity to support those people, Gloria said.

�They are counting on our compassion and goodwill in my city to clear up their problem,� he said. �That�s untenable. I�m trying to apply pressure on other cities to step up and do their jobs.�

Deep political divisions among county leaders are getting in the way of solving the problem of homelessness, said Donnie Dee, CEO of the San Diego Rescue Mission, a nonprofit homeless shelter and recovery center.

�Until we as a county begin to see this regionally and less locally, I don�t know that we�ll ever be able to find a better solution,� Dee said.

Since Gloria took office in 2020, the city�s shelter capacity has increased by 70 percent, with five new shelters opening in 2022 alone. But while leaders have had success placing people into beds, they can�t keep up with the rising rate of homelessness. For every ten people who are placed into housing, 13 others become homeless, according to the Regional Task Force on Homelessness.

Much of the homeless population lives in downtown San Diego. A recent count by the Downtown San Diego Partnership found a record 2,100 people living on sidewalks and in vehicles. That burgeoning population prompted the San Diego City Council in June to pass a controversial ban on homeless encampments on public property.

Supporters of the ban, which passed 5-4 and was signed by Gloria, say it will improve public safety and encourage unsheltered people to use city services. But opponents counter that it's cruel to force people off the streets and criminalize homelessness when there�s not enough availability in shelters. If people refuse to leave public property, they may be arrested.

The law is set to take effect 30 days after the recent opening of a city-run safe sleeping site that gives about 150 people a place to camp along with free meals, access to restrooms and showers. A second site is scheduled to open later this year.

Mayors' wish list of powers over housing:

Provide bonus density for affordable housing

Power to create a housing authority

Regulating and taxing short term rental units

Fast tracking for certain important projects

Veto authority on zoning decisions

A longer term proposal San Diego is pursuing involves the purchasing of three hotels and an apartment complex to convert into permanent housing for the homeless with wraparound services.

The $153 million plan has been criticized by some leaders like the neighboring Coronado and El Cajon mayors for its steep cost. It would be paid for by a combination of city and state funds. Gloria acknowledged that the purchase is expensive but reflective of the market.

�This is a high cost housing environment, it�s obviously why we have this problem,� he said. �Let�s not criticize solutions that actually end people�s homelessness.�

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2023/50-mayors-us-cities/housing/

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Aug 2, 2023

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:08

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Interesting article.

The feeling I've been getting has been that local governments respond to property owners and individual property owners like housing shortages because it keeps their properties valuable. Expanding housing stock risks collapsing the housing market and pissing off everyone who currently owns there. Meanwhile the people who would want more housing stock can't vote locally because they don't live there (yet).

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:19

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

It is also completely blowing my mind that there is a city in Wyoming where the average price paid for a new house is over $5 million and is currently the most expensive area to live in in the entire country.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Aug 2, 2023

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:25

Beastie: Nov 3, 2006; They used to call me tricky-kid, I lived the life they wish they did.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

It is also completely blowing my mind that there is a city in Wyoming where the average price paid for a new house is over $5 million and is currently the most expensive area to live in in the entire country.

Its some of the nicest skiing in the country.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:28

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Beastie posted:

Its some of the nicest skiing in the country.

Yeah, but Aspen and other places also have very nice skiing. It also didn't become this expensive until 2021. The new median income there is now over $320k.

There's a lot of aspects that are surprising to me:

- Skiing is overtaking beaches for real estate prices?

- If you had to guess where the most expensive place in the country to live was, would you have guessed Wyoming?

- The median income for this town is over $320k. What drove the wages/income up so high for everyone in that area? Apparently, the nearly tripling of the median income came from tens of thousands of wealthy investors and tech workers moving there?

quote:

Fully 69% of Teton County�s personal income came from investments, far more than the U.S. average of 18%.

- It was not previously the most expensive, but only became so in 2021.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:34

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

i'm assuming it's the town where the fed hosts the meeting where they decide what the economy will do

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:35

Fork of Unknown Origins: Oct 21, 2005; Gotta Herd On?

If I recall right, weren�t a lot of rich, �I�m the CEO of a multi-billion dollar company and can live anywhere� type of people moving to places like the Rockies and Wyoming since they were more insulated against climate change? Or expected to be anyway. I�ll try to find the article I read talking about it.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:37

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Yeah if I was idle rich I�d rather a sick estate house in the mountains than some Manhattan penthouse

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:39

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

haveblue posted:

Robert Bowers, the perpetrator of the 2018 Tree of Life synagogue shooting that killed 11 people, has been sentenced to death. He was convicted on all 63 charges related to the attack, including 11 counts of murder and 11 counts of hate crime.

I'm curious how the local Jewish community feels about this, especially since IIUC a lot of jewish people are anti death penalty on religious grounds.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:40

Fork of Unknown Origins: Oct 21, 2005; Gotta Herd On?

VikingofRock posted:

I'm curious how the local Jewish community feels about this, especially since IIUC a lot of jewish people are anti death penalty on religious grounds.

I have complicated feelings about the death penalty, but one thing I do believe is that the victim�s (or victim�s community/family) preference shouldn�t matter, if for no other reason than to absolve those people from the responsibility of the act.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:43

Tree Reformat: Apr 2, 2022; by Fluffdaddy

Who wants to vacation in Malibu or Miami when odds are increasing year over year you'll arrive during yet another record breaking heatwave or apocalyptic-looking wildfire season?

Decent skiing spots south of the Canadian border are only going to get rarer as time goes on, and thus skyrocket in value.

Tree Reformat fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Aug 2, 2023

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:44

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

VikingofRock posted:

I'm curious how the local Jewish community feels about this, especially since IIUC a lot of jewish people are anti death penalty on religious grounds.

Jews are usually anti-death penalty because they are generally pretty liberal, but it is explicitly allowed in the Torah.

Apparently, the local Jewish community is split, but a majority of the victims' family want the death penalty.

quote:

As jurors deliberate on the fate of the convicted shooter who killed 11 Jewish worshippers in the Tree of Life Synagogue, the Jewish community is split on its support of the death penalty.

In mid-April, before the trial started, sisters Michele and Diane Rosenthal, sisters to two shooting victims David and Cecil Rosenthal, told reporters that a majority of the victims' families are in support of capital punishment in this case.

"We don't want to be here, and we know the emotional toll this trial potentially brings, but we owe it to our brothers Cecil and David," Diane Rosenthal said at the time.

The sisters pointed to a 2021 letter, in which several families wrote to the attorney general, stating the same.

quote:

L'Chaim, Jews Against the Death Penalty, demonstrated downtown.

"If they get a death sentence in a case, what they're doing is asking the victims' families to wait decades for an execution that may come, to put your healing on pause for decades," said Abraham Bonowitz, a group representative who spoke to the press.

https://www.wtae.com/article/jewish-community-split-on-views-regarding-death-penalty/44705793

# ? Aug 2, 2023 20:45

Star Man: Jun 1, 2008; There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

- If you had to guess where the most expensive place in the country to live was, would you have guessed Wyoming?

I would not have guessed it was at the top, but I was not surprised to see it's now the top, because Jackson is in Jackson Hole. It's a ski resort town, and is just south of Yellowstone. It's where celebrities and other wealthy shitheads have property. The most famous picture of the state is in that area.

I was there a month ago while visiting home. We walked by Berkshire Hathaway and got a laugh at the prices. All anyone from Wyoming does is joke about how the billionaires have run out all the millionaires.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:03

koolkal: Oct 21, 2008; this thread maybe doesnt have room for 2 green xbox one avs

I don't know why someone needs to write 10000 words trying to explain the issues with housing when it's so comically simple I could explain it to a high schooler.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:05

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

i would pay tens of millions of dollars to live in the shadow of the tits mountains

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:05

Rappaport: Oct 2, 2013

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

i would pay tens of millions of dollars to live in the shadow of the tits mountains

Buddy, they won't even let me

Well, I guess with tens of millions they would look the other way. Mountains, though?

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:08

Fork of Unknown Origins: Oct 21, 2005; Gotta Herd On?

koolkal posted:

I don't know why someone needs to write 10000 words trying to explain the issues with housing when it's so comically simple I could explain it to a high schooler.

On one level it�s simple. Build more medium to high density houses. Untangling the web of NIMBY city governments is a lot more difficult. CA took a swing at it but didn�t go far enough.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:11

Sir John Falstaff: Apr 13, 2010

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Politico has a very interesting special where they brought together 50 mayors from big cities in the U.S. to discuss why their cities have problems with housing and why they haven't been able to fix it.

I'm not sure the bolded part is accurate--the article seems to be part of Politico's mayors project, which includes mayors of cities with a wide range of populations, from Gibbon, NE, population 2,000 to Phoenix, AZ, population 1.6 million. See https://politico.com/interactives/2023/50-mayors-us-cities/

This may help explain some of the range of responses--for example, I could understand Gibbon not having a drastic need for additional housing given that its population increased by 45 people between the 2010 and 2020 Censuses.

Sir John Falstaff fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Aug 2, 2023

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:18

Beastie: Nov 3, 2006; They used to call me tricky-kid, I lived the life they wish they did.

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

i would pay tens of millions of dollars to live in the shadow of the tits mountains

I've been to the Rockies and the Tetons, and I've lived in the Uintas and the Wasatch. The Tetons are just an unworldly amount of beauty.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:25

Jesus III: May 23, 2007

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

i would pay tens of millions of dollars to live in the shadow of the tits mountains

It's the big tits mountains, mister.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:31

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

- Skiing is overtaking beaches for real estate prices?

Well beaches aren't gonna be around much longer, but AFAIK high -altitude skiing will still be possible even with multiple degrees of warming

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

i would pay tens of millions of dollars to live in the shadow of the tits mountains

Too late, Rudy already claimed that land

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:32

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

I have complicated feelings about the death penalty, but one thing I do believe is that the victim’s (or victim’s community/family) preference shouldn’t matter, if for no other reason than to absolve those people from the responsibility of the act.

Thanks for bringing this up. I think that retribution is not justice, and I think that letting victims dictate punishment would make that problem worse, and can hinder healing. So in that respect , I agree with you. But also, I think that inflicting a punishment that many of the victims are opposed to can make things worse. I admit these two thoughts are a bit contradictory, and there are no easy answers here, but that's why I brought it up: I think it's an interesting aspect of this story that is worthy of discussion.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:48

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

VikingofRock posted:

Thanks for bringing this up. I think that retribution is not justice, and I think that letting victims dictate punishment would make that problem worse, and can hinder healing. So in that respect , I agree with you. But also, I think that inflicting a punishment that many of the victims are opposed to can make things worse. I admit these two thoughts are a bit contradictory, and there are no easy answers here, but that's why I brought it up: I think it's an interesting aspect of this story that is worthy of discussion.

The victims wouldn't dictate punishment but also, separately, if the victims are opposed to the punishment it's a good indicator that the punishment does not lead to rehabilitation for either side involved. It is still a good example of the pointless cruelty of the death penalty.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:54

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Star Man posted:

I would not have guessed it was at the top, but I was not surprised to see it's now the top, because Jackson is in Jackson Hole. It's a ski resort town, and is just south of Yellowstone. It's where celebrities and other wealthy shitheads have property. The most famous picture of the state is in that area.

I was there a month ago while visiting home. We walked by Berkshire Hathaway and got a laugh at the prices. All anyone from Wyoming does is joke about how the billionaires have run out all the millionaires.

Highlights:

Its not just that; Wyoming is also a huge tax haven. See this article from 2021. (Trigger warning: you'll want to sharpen your guillotine)

quote:

Of the 3,144 counties in the United States, the one with the highest per capita income is Teton County, Wyoming. It�s also the most unequal: Ninety percent of all income is made by 8 percent of households. Its average per capita income is $194,485, and the average income for the top 1 percent in the county is an astonishing $28.2 million.

People say that they move to Teton County for the beautiful ecosystem, the wildlife and all that, but the other major reason, the primary reason really, is it�s a tax haven. I try to show that not all tax havens are off in these faraway islands, some of them are right here in the pristine mountains of the American West: Wyoming does not have corporate tax or income tax and often sits atop Bloomberg�s wealth-friendly states rankings. So you see dollars flooding in, which impacts the fabric of the community itself. In Teton County in 1980, only 30 percent of income came from financial investments, but by 2015, $8 out of every $10 in this community was made from financial investments.

The fundamental issue is that a lot of these folks go to this area to escape the homelessness and poverty that they might see somewhere else. They moved there expecting not to see it and when they do, it�s kind of a buzz kill. So they�re like, �I didn�t come to paradise to give money to a homeless person; I thought I got away from that.�

There is a narrative within the community�which has some truth�that it�s an extremely generous place with all these nonprofits. People love to talk about that. So I dug into the numbers, and they do have a huge number of nonprofits: per capita, it�s off the charts. I looked at where the money is going and asked what that says about the community. Often the money is going to arts organizations, for example maybe to fund a symphony in the summer. They bring in these world-class musicians who may stay in some of the wealthy homes. Meanwhile, there is a housing crisis, and there are children in the schools who are homeless. There are homeless children in the richest county in the richest country in the world.

So this is a philanthropic community, but virtually no money is going to organizations working in the social-services sector compared with the millions that are pouring into support the arts or a land trust or environmental nonprofit.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 21:55

koolkal: Oct 21, 2008; this thread maybe doesnt have room for 2 green xbox one avs

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

On one level it�s simple. Build more medium to high density houses. Untangling the web of NIMBY city governments is a lot more difficult. CA took a swing at it but didn�t go far enough.

It's even simpler than that.

People that have houses (the 'haves' let's call them) want housing prices to be as high as possible.

People that don't have houses (the 'havenots' let's call them) want housing prices to be as low as possible.

Everything else is largely noise. If you conviced a neighborhood that opening a massive condo complex would increase their house value by 25% they would beg you to build 10 of them.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 22:01

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

koolkal posted:

It's even simpler than that.

People that have houses (the 'haves' let's call them) want housing prices to be as high as possible.

People that don't have houses (the 'havenots' let's call them) want housing prices to be as low as possible.

Everything else is largely noise. If you conviced a neighborhood that opening a massive condo complex would increase their house value by 25% they would beg you to build 10 of them.

Housing doesn't just mean freestanding single-family home, though. It also means townhomes, apartment buildings, duplexes, mother-in-law apartment in existing house etc.

NIMBYs are against all of them. They don't want 'those people' living nearby. Crime will go up. Traffic will get worse. Taxes will go up to cover more services and infrastructure use. Their kids might have to go to school with them and they'd be a 'bad influence.' It'll affect the 'character of the community.'

(Honestly if a lot of these areas would just put a ban on Air BnBs it'd help a LOT, but good luck).

# ? Aug 2, 2023 22:05

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The other is that California and New York have similar levels of homelessness, but California has more than twice as many people living on the streets. There seems to be some failure of policy at the state and local level in California cities compared to New York.

This article does have one very large catch: its primary source of information is "asking 50 elected officials in local governments to provide on-the-record quotes on intensely politically contentious subjects that are deeply tied to their own political records". Politico's Mayors' Club series may make for fun reading, but it has to be taken with a grain of salt, a skeptical eye, and an understanding of the strong political incentives for the mayors to say certain things.

Housing policy isn't the only difference between California and New York. New York has a substantially higher population density than California. Moreover, that population is far more geographically and governmentally concentrated. New York City alone has a higher population than California's top five most populated cities combined despite being just over half the geographical size of LA. That means the homeless population in California is spread out across a lot more local governments, not only due to the number of cities but also due to the suburban sprawl surrounding them.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 22:06

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

koolkal posted:

If you conviced a neighborhood that opening a massive condo complex would increase their house value by 25% they would beg you to build 10 of them.

Eh, I am not sure that would be the case if they expected black people to live there.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 22:12

Killer robot: Sep 6, 2010; I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!; Pillbug

koolkal posted:

It's even simpler than that.

People that have houses (the 'haves' let's call them) want housing prices to be as high as possible.

People that don't have houses (the 'havenots' let's call them) want housing prices to be as low as possible.

Everything else is largely noise. If you conviced a neighborhood that opening a massive condo complex would increase their house value by 25% they would beg you to build 10 of them.

And even that wouldn't be so bad if it was just professional real estate investors trying to keep property values up, but home ownership culture has come to put the value of a house as an investment ahead of its value as a place to live. Even if you plan on growing old there oh boy just think of what you could flip this place for and now you're an enthusiastic backer of whatever the corporate side is doing even though it increases your taxes and makes things harder for people like you were a few years ago.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 22:12

DeadlyMuffin: Jul 3, 2007

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The other is that California and New York have similar levels of homelessness, but California has more than twice as many people living on the streets. There seems to be some failure of policy at the state and local level in California cities compared to New York.

I think winter is a big part of it. New York is forced to either provide housing during winter or have a lot of unhoused people die. Most of CA can get away with them being unhoused all year round.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 22:18

Fork of Unknown Origins: Oct 21, 2005; Gotta Herd On?

koolkal posted:

It's even simpler than that.

People that have houses (the 'haves' let's call them) want housing prices to be as high as possible.

People that don't have houses (the 'havenots' let's call them) want housing prices to be as low as possible.

Everything else is largely noise. If you conviced a neighborhood that opening a massive condo complex would increase their house value by 25% they would beg you to build 10 of them.

That�s exactly what I�m saying when I talk about the NIMBYish though.

Gumball Gumption posted:

The victims wouldn't dictate punishment but also, separately, if the victims are opposed to the punishment it's a good indicator that the punishment does not lead to rehabilitation for either side involved. It is still a good example of the pointless cruelty of the death penalty.

I don�t know if I want to get into a whole thing about the death penalty when my feelings aren�t really that concrete on it, but I don�t think there�s any rehabilitation for either side from the death penalty or life in prison. Which is basically just a death penalty where they kill you with time instead of shots. But with life imprisonment you can (kind of sort of) fix it if you screw up.

But part of me thinks that that escape valve is overrated and may lead to less care being put into making sure we know someone is guilty before dropping that penalty on them. And if someone is locked up for 30 (or even 5) years wrongly then you can�t ever really make that up.

But the main reason I don�t like it isn�t that I think it�s inherently more cruel or bad than life imprisonment, but that I don�t trust it to be decided correctly. I don�t think you�ll ever overcome racial disparities in sentencing. So I guess on the whole I don�t think we should have it but I�m not opposed to it in principle.

As an aside, having been in a community that went through something similar, my personal feeling was that I wouldn�t want the death penalty just because I wouldn�t want it to reenter the news cycle again a few years later. Luckily (and I do think this is the best case scenario in these situations) the guy died in the act.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 22:18

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

koolkal posted:

I'll admit I'm not anywhere near knowledgeable about this but isn't SAG-AFTRA essentially the strongest union considering they have the literal faces of Hollywood? It seems like it would be a lot easier to poo poo over the WGA by signing an agreement with SAG-AFTRA than vice-versa. Even if the writers make a deal, you still have everyone's favorite movie and TV stars blasting execs.

Idk I assume actors are a bigger share of a studio�s budget than writers so it�s cheaper to make a deal with WGA.

# ? Aug 2, 2023 23:50

Gyges: Aug 4, 2004; NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK

Also the Writers Guild has been on strike for a while. Probably not going to help negotiations with either guild to not even symbolically go to the table with them before talking to SAG again.

# ? Aug 3, 2023 00:06

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

On one level it�s simple. Build more medium to high density houses. Untangling the web of NIMBY city governments is a lot more difficult. CA took a swing at it but didn�t go far enough.

Cities/regions that are building medium and high density are still being out paced by demographic changes.

Edit: meaning everywhere has to. Seattle stays hosed if they don�t build in Cali.

# ? Aug 3, 2023 00:42

JonathonSpectre: Jul 23, 2003; I replaced the Shermatar and text with this because I don't wanna see racial slurs every time you post what the fuck; Soiled Meat

Killer robot posted:

And even that wouldn't be so bad if it was just professional real estate investors trying to keep property values up, but home ownership culture has come to put the value of a house as an investment ahead of its value as a place to live. Even if you plan on growing old there oh boy just think of what you could flip this place for and now you're an enthusiastic backer of whatever the corporate side is doing even though it increases your taxes and makes things harder for people like you were a few years ago.

The last time I visited one of my conservative friends the only thing he and his buds did was sit and look at loving Zillow and talk about how much they could make selling their houses.

I let this go on a bit and then asked them, "Where will you live? You'd have to spend another $100k just to get what you have now because of this 'investment' insanity."

It was a real "They'll just sell the flooded houses and move!" moment irl.

My little run-down house in Backwood Rootas Poot, Florida has supposedly increased in value by nearly 100% in the 9 years I've owned it. It's done nothing, at all, but sit here and get older and more run-down. Makes perfect sense! If I reduce it to a complete loving pile of rubble it will be worth infinite money!

# ? Aug 3, 2023 00:57

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# ? May 25, 2024 09:51

Eric Cantonese: Dec 21, 2004; You should hear my accent.

JonathonSpectre posted:

My little run-down house in Backwood Rootas Poot, Florida has supposedly increased in value by nearly 100% in the 9 years I've owned it. It's done nothing, at all, but sit here and get older and more run-down. Makes perfect sense! If I reduce it to a complete loving pile of rubble it will be worth infinite money!

You'd have probably done the new owner of the lot a massive favor by doing the demolition work he or she would have had to do, so you probably would get a price bump.

Would it be enough to cover the cost of demolishing the old, run-down house? I don't know.

# ? Aug 3, 2023 04:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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