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Anyway, I was thinking of finally getting into the Transformers franchise. I remember seeing and enjoying a couple episodes of Beast Wars a few years ago but what other shows would you recommend?
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Aug 1, 2023 14:32
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| # ? May 14, 2024 07:18 |
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Beast Wars is good but the graphics have aged pretty miserably so it might be a tough watch. Its direct sequel Beast Machines is... weird. I think the art aged better but imo the story is pretty trash so I'd skip that. Transformers Animated feels like a weird amalgamation of Transformers and Teen Titans but it works. .. aaaand that's about all I know about TF.
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Aug 1, 2023 15:17
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Transformers Prime is fun. The Netflix Transformers series are kinda poo poo and take themselves way too seriously.
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Aug 1, 2023 15:25
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Arc Hammer posted:Transformers Prime is fun. Does the original Transformers series still hold up that well? And speaking of Beast Wars, how’s the Japan only series Beast Wars NEO? Larryb fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Aug 1, 2023 |
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Aug 1, 2023 15:27
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I grew up watching Beasties so my knowledge of G1 is pretty limited. I mainly know the memes and the occasional wildly racist episodes like the one with the evil Islamic country of Carbombya
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Aug 1, 2023 15:33
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Beast Wars definitely has some graphical fidelity issues in the 2020s, but the character, animation, cinematography and lighting are usually ahead of their time and still effectively convey the meaning and mood the directors intended. It's also until very recently for sure the best one. The Japan exclusive Transformers series are almost uniformly pretty mediocre and I wouldn't recommend them. The current series, Earthspark, has some pretty impressive fight scenes and really charming voice work. The writing is okay - it's definitely trying to follow the path of something like Steven Universe in terms of tone and emotional depth but isn't quite as potent. The big problem is how the scripts are absolutely smothered in Brand And Trademark Management Language that causes dialogue to become really stilted, even in emotional scenes, because the verb "transform" is banned from all Transformers fiction nowadays.
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Aug 1, 2023 16:02
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DoctorWhat posted:the verb "transform" is banned from all Transformers fiction nowadays. That’s bizarre, why’s that? Also you said “almost” in regards to the Japanese shows, is there an exception to the rule?
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Aug 1, 2023 16:05
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It's like Band-Aids. If Transformers, the brand of action figures, are characterized by their ability to "transform", the brand name becomes descriptive and potentially generic, which Hasbro's lawyers very badly want to avoid. So all fiction and marketing copy has to use phrases like "convert" and "change shape" and it's unbearable. There's also been some more recent obnoxious stuff like the phrase "Transformers bots" to refer to characters instead of just saying "transformers". It's awful. The main exception to Japan-only series being pretty lame is only half an exception. Car Robots, the anime that aired in 2000 as an extension of what we call "JBW" is pretty charming and digestible - but it did in fact get a dub, albeit with some significant cuts due to collapsing buildings in the wake of 9/11, as Robots in Disguise. It's important to understand that Transformers is extremely niche in Japan, and living robots are pidgeon-holed as a very childish premise compared to piloted mechs, even fantastical super robots. So Transformers has never been a prestige property over there. On an above subject: I don't care for Transformers Prime. I think it's dull, plodding, and has nothing to say.
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Aug 1, 2023 16:15
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It has Jeffrey Combs as Ratchet 
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Aug 1, 2023 16:23
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DoctorWhat posted:It's like Band-Aids. If Transformers, the brand of action figures, are characterized by their ability to "transform", the brand name becomes descriptive and potentially generic, which Hasbro's lawyers very badly want to avoid. So all fiction and marketing copy has to use phrases like "convert" and "change shape" and it's unbearable. There's also been some more recent obnoxious stuff like the phrase "Transformers bots" to refer to characters instead of just saying "transformers". It's awful. I know where to find a fansubbed version so that's not going to be a problem. When did Hasbro's sudden stigma against the very title of their brand start?
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Aug 1, 2023 16:35
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It kicked off around 2010ish in fiction. By 2012 or so comics writers had to beg for exceptions, like the line "he transformed himself to death" in the first issue of More Than Meets the Eye.
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Aug 1, 2023 16:40
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Arc Hammer posted:It has Jeffrey Combs as Ratchet Yeah, Prime's good. It used to be on Netflix, I think, but I'm not sure if it is anymore.
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Aug 1, 2023 17:14
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The original transformers is kind of the archetypal 80s cartoon toy commercial (GI Joe actually came first, and I think the "team of heroes" marketing model is generally more popular, but the theme of having equal, opposite factions was also very common for a while). It can be fun and dumb, and it kind of jumps randomly between cheap scheme of the month plots and the occasional weird sci-fi thing. Hasbro Pulse put the entire G1 series on Youtube if you wanna check it out. The original 1985 movie was...I think objectively not a good movie, the plot's not great and there's kind of a horrifying and gross thing where the writers felt compelled to kill off the original toys to make room for the new toys because they...didn't really understand how merchandising worked back then, or the fact that they could just re-release popular characters. But it's also a real spectacle to it all and there's some real pretty animation. It sometimes wants to be a rock opera? Very weird. After the movie, the cartoon goes through a shift towards weirder sci-fi, and there's a lot more spacefaring with the introduction of the Quintessons and various other alien terrors instead of just the Decepticons. The end of G1 gets pretty fuzzy, since after the series ended in the US, the toyline continued, and Japan had a few extra series of their own continuing the continuity of the cartoon. It's a running thing that Japan kept putting out a bunch of animes on top of translating the American series. A lot of US and UK transformers fans will also swear by the marvel comics series, which did a whole Generation 2 thing in the 90s. I really never revisited any of the other series I watched as a kid, but there were SO MANY, and I'm not really sure if any of them hold up.
And then after that there's a bunch that I never checked out at all, some targeted more towards little little kids like Rescue Bots, and there are like 7 japan-exclusive series. It's a very big franchise. There's a transformers thread in BSS if you want to ask the true nerds. There was a fairly popular bunch of comics from IDW a few years back, although that continuity got rebooted and then IDW lost the license.
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Aug 1, 2023 17:28
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I will also back Earthspark, it's doing some interesting things and it might legit have the best-handled human sidekick characters in any TF show? (don't quote me on that tho.) also I cannot hate Prime simply owing to the fact that Knockout is exactly the perfect Dramatic Evil Bisexual rep I love. /semi-joking.
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Aug 1, 2023 19:12
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Nah, Knockout is a great character and I’m mad he’s not had a single good toy.
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Aug 1, 2023 21:29
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Hasbro was apparently genuinely shocked that kids had to be carried crying out of the cinema after watching all of their childhood heroes die and even hastily tacked on a 'He's in a coma! He's gonna be okay!' line to the GI Joe movie in response.
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Aug 2, 2023 05:51
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Larryb posted:How was that? I saw the entire series and it really wasn’t that bad. Though Peter wasn’t exactly special because everyone around him including all villains and side characters were incredibly smart. It didn’t matter if he made his web shooters because literally anyone in that show could do that in 10 minutes kind of deal. They did a lot of storylines from the modern Spidey media like Superior Spider-Man (with the costume!), Spider-Gwen, the whole “Venom takes over NY with symbiotes” thing, Anya becoming Spider-Woman, Miles being the second Spider-Man, Horizon Labs (called Horizon High in the show), The Jackal’s whole deal with experiments and genetic modification stuff, Anna Maria Marconi, etc. Doc Ock is my favorite out of the villains but every single one getting a scientific origin story was kind of old after a while. It was like Marvel/Disney didn’t want to do much magic or non-science stuff. They did do some deep cuts with villains though! The animation was very bland at times and completely lacks shading. I don’t think Marvel/Disney cared about it halfway through because it stopped airing for a long time and barely got any advertising. Overall, it’s not bad but could have been worse. I personally didn’t like Ultimate Spider-Man so it was nice to see Peter not doing the constant teaming up. Oh Ms. Marvel shows up as well as Black Widow as reoccurring characters. Ms. Marvel is played as just as smart as Peter but she’s an Avenger so he’s constantly wanting to be in the team when she’s around. She’s the same age as him but acts like she’s been a superhero for years before him for some reason.
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Aug 2, 2023 09:08
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ThermoPhysical posted:I saw the entire series and it really wasn’t that bad. Though Peter wasn’t exactly special because everyone around him including all villains and side characters were incredibly smart. It didn’t matter if he made his web shooters because literally anyone in that show could do that in 10 minutes kind of deal.
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Aug 2, 2023 09:39
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Yvonmukluk posted:They also had Cloak and Dagger in that show didn’t they? IIRC they got the actors from the live action show to reprise their roles for it. I wonder if they might do something similar for Moon Girl, given they also have reused MCU actors. Speaking of Moon Girl, there hasn’t been any further update on Season 2 yet has there? Larryb fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 12:12
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Yvonmukluk posted:They also had Cloak and Dagger in that show didn’t they? IIRC they got the actors from the live action show to reprise their roles for it. I wonder if they might do something similar for Moon Girl, given they also have reused MCU actors. Yeah! They showed up too voiced by the live action actors. Larryb posted:It also only lasted 13 episodes I can’t tell if this is a joke but it lasted 58 episodes with 3 seasons.  But I don’t even know when Disney XD aired it because they rarely did.
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Aug 2, 2023 12:27
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ThermoPhysical posted:Yeah! They showed up too voiced by the live action actors. Oh sorry, I was thinking of the MTV series Larryb fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 12:30
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Off the subject, anybody have a chance to see the new TMNT movie yet? I've been hearing mixed reviews so far
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Aug 2, 2023 13:22
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Larryb posted:Off the subject, anybody have a chance to see the new TMNT movie yet? I've been hearing mixed reviews so far ...mixed reviews? it's Certified Fresh on Rotten Tomatoes.
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Aug 2, 2023 18:47
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Junpei posted:...mixed reviews? it's Certified Fresh on Rotten Tomatoes. I don’t read review sites, I meant reviews from fans on other forums (and in the Animation thread over in CD). Criticisms seem to be minor for the most part though Let me rephrase, has anyone see the new Turtles movie yet and what did you think of it? Larryb fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 18:50
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SlothfulCobra posted:
Fun fact, for about ten years Energon and Beast Machines were the subjects of the "worst Transformers cartoon" debate, before the Netflix shows happened.
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Aug 2, 2023 21:43
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Beast Wars is pretty great and would hold up even today by modern standards if you can get past how absolutely horrible it looks.
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Aug 2, 2023 22:15
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It's subjective but I'd say that the Beast Wars jank is part of its charm. Megatron's bottom lip making that weird V shape when he talks is seared into my brain. CGI cartoons always age faster than 2D and even at the time Beast Wars looked rough despite being pretty groundbreaking. The only CGI cartoon from the 90s that I can say looked good for the time it released is probably Roughnecks. Rough nowadays but really impressive for 1999 and it was carried by very good art direction.
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Aug 2, 2023 22:53
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Roughnecks is really helped by putting its characters in hardsuits for 99% of the series, which means that most of the jank of animating a human with late 90s CGI is gone (the scenes that have them out of their hardsuits and in regular jumpsuits look a lot worse), being able to reuse the great bug designs from the movie, and having Foundation Imaging at the top of their game after gaining all that experience handling Babylon 5 (the episodes NOT done by Foundation Imaging look noticeably worse). Plus you can't discount the effect of having animators willing to go above and beyond because they are really passionate about the source material, call it the One Punch Man Season One effect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMJ7S4iwXSc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2GIlHT3NkQ Assepoester fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Aug 2, 2023 23:02
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Aug 2, 2023 23:04
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Assepoester posted:Roughnecks is really helped by putting its characters in hardsuits for 99% of the series, which means that most of the jank of animating a human with late 90s CGI is gone (the scenes that have them out of their hardsuits and in regular jumpsuits look a lot worse), being able to reuse the great bug designs from the movie, and having Foundation Imaging at the top of their game after gaining all that experience handling Babylon 5 (the episodes NOT done by Foundation Imaging look noticeably worse). The first arc of Roughnecks also pulls out every clever trick in the book to make the CGI look as good as possible. Use shadows to mask low res textures. Set it on Pluto so every shot is in perpetual twilight and crank those specular maps to make the jagged rocks pop when you hit them with a light source. No atmosphere so the Mobile Infantry are in uniform 90% of the time. It's animators knowing what they're doing and making the most out of what they've got with some good directorial flair thrown in. No wonder the entire intro you posted is made out of scenes from the first five episodes. That's why the Pluto and Klendathu campaigns look the best while the Hydora and Tophet campaigns set during the daytime really suffer with flat lighting and rather ugly terrain. The Tesca campaign on the jungle planet was actually pretty decent for how well they rendered vegetation.
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Aug 2, 2023 23:14
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That TMNT movie is pretty good. Really liked the look of it. If you're anti-pop culture references in any form you might have a bad time though, there's a ton of them. I was fine with them personally because they're used mainly to show how teenagers interpret basically everything about the world through the media they consume.
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Aug 2, 2023 23:43
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It has my favorite car chase set to 80s pop song in a long time. They mixed it really well. Animation is *gorgeous*
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Aug 3, 2023 00:12
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Cubix is hideous in most respects but it did have some nice designs for the bad guy robots
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Aug 3, 2023 01:33
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Yeah just got back from Mutant Mayhem myself and I loved it. Fun, funny, heartfelt, great action, amazing animation, loved the characters. Were some parts of arcs easy to see coming? Certainly. But that's not a bad thing, and they nailed everything it needed to.
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Aug 3, 2023 03:54
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I saw Mutant Mayhem as well. It maybe felt a little light/predictable but I think it was pretty good movie. It also had the absolute most random references, lol Given the short runtime it also did a really good job of setting stuff up jokes and having them pay off later in unexpected ways mystes fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 03:58
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Arc Hammer posted:It's subjective but I'd say that the Beast Wars jank is part of its charm. Megatron's bottom lip making that weird V shape when he talks is seared into my brain. They definitely get a lot of mileage out of their janky models combined with some amazing "camera work". https://i.imgur.com/NJ4PUBJ.mp4 Getting tempted to re-watch it lol
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Aug 3, 2023 06:21
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SlothfulCobra posted:The original 1985 movie was...I think objectively not a good movie You're right, it's not good. It's great.
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Aug 3, 2023 09:30
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The Zoids shows kinda blow everything out of the water when it comes to 90s CGI/animation blends. Reboot I think deserves mention for having a premise that makes the CGI work since it's literally a video game. Transformers Robots In Disguise, the anime one, is my first exposure to the franchise. And it's very much a goofy kids series but IMO pretty charming. And it has Sky-Byte, a beloved fan favourite. Also raising very weird questions when one of the Autobots keeps hitting on non sentient red sports cars, much to the confusion of the hapless young woman who is always driving them.
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Aug 3, 2023 10:15
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Zoids is ridiculously well animated for the CG portions not only for the era it was made in but even by modern standards
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Aug 3, 2023 10:22
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I know right? That deserves a fuckin movie. The sound design, impact and recoil, it's decades ahead of its time. A friend of mine had a crush on Bit Cloud. I can see it.
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Aug 3, 2023 10:35
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