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That new land cruiser looks pretty great, its more reasonable price wise than a bronco and has that nice boxy look but woth a better interor, i will definitely look into it as a possible next car. For reference where i live the mid range bronco is $74,000 dollars, while toyota here are usually withing normal global MSRP. 55,000 for a great SUV is a good investment for the next 10 years especially since i wanna go do more biking and ourdoors stuff in the wintertime. Might also be a good future proof car if marriage happens soon. One thing im wondering about is how driving that is gonna feel, i hope its good. Torque and horse power look great but hopefully handling is good. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 05:54
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I think the new one has electric power steering for the first time - I’ve only ever had hydraulic off-road, but on road it should be just fine like everything else (except Vinfast).
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Aug 3, 2023 07:30
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https://twitter.com/GuyDealership/status/1686754232123129856?s=20 What is it about Toyota? I genuinely don't get it, people go crazy for them and my experience has always been that they cost moderately more than the same thing from any other manufacturer new, and much more used so we've never bought one.
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Aug 3, 2023 13:26
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They are the kings of reliability. My mom recently told me that my dad has, apparently, never once changed the oil in his Taco. She occasionally does it for him, but sure as hell not every 5 or even 10k miles. It's up to 200K and has been in multiple accidents, including the one time he forgot to put the hand brake up while warming it up one morning before work so it rolled down the hill that is their back yard and smashed into some trees. If you just want an appliance and aren't one of those "BUY AMERICAN" types I really don't know what the argument is for basically any other brand aside from a few obvious reasons.
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Aug 3, 2023 13:32
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Perceived higher reliability, better baseline quality and high resale value?
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Aug 3, 2023 13:32
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The Toyota/Lexus tax on used cars is very real. They hold their value insanely well. It’s probably the biggest reason I didn’t end up with another Prius.
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Aug 3, 2023 13:38
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They have a lot of niche vehicles that nobody is likely to cross ship as well. 4runner, Tacoma, Prius, Sienna. The Corolla Hybrid & Prius combo is pretty funny as well, similar cars in some ways but buyers of one model wouldn't be caught dead in the other. The base model of the new land cruiser is really cool, I even like the 90's seat fabric. sanchez fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 13:40
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In many ways I’d argue the current Corolla hybrid is what the Prius was when it first became popular from a performance perspective. Now the Prius has gone a little upmarket and has actual performance (relatively speaking) while the Corolla is still the slow, reliable and efficient hybrid vehicle. I would never have gotten a Prius until the 2023 model year. If I got a Corolla it would probably be the XSE model but not the hybrid. Now all I want is the Prius because they made it handle at least as well as a civic and gave it enough power while keeping its efficiency. I drive a lot and burn a lot of miles the car just makes sense for me in ways all the others don’t. 10 years ago I’d have told you I’d never ever buy a Toyota. But life experience made me come around to them. Toyota finally made the Prius cool and interesting rather than a quirky looking car for snobs. Also the insistence of all the German brands to use haptic feedback, touch screens, touch pads and removing all the dials and buttons has actually made Toyotas semi retro interior tech attractive to me again. Now they’re the only brand where I can still control things with dials and buttons. I want a reliable workhorse vehicle with good build quality, NVH, efficiency and reasonably okay and planted handling. Toyota has given me most of that once I became realistic with myself that I can’t really use all the crazy performance other cars get me. They solved carbon build up with their dual injector system. You don’t have to worry about stuff like oil dilution as you do with the Hondas. They’re easier to work on, have a massive market for spare parts and generally you can own one for long periods of time instead of lease it to avoid late life problems. I also like how their trucks look and it seems they stuck to body on frame designs with actual off-road capability plus reliability. I wouldn’t get one but if I wanted a truck I’d probably get a Tacoma or that new Land Cruiser since basically that gets me what a wrangler or bronco get me but more reliable and better on gas. I totally understand why it’s basically impossible to get a brand new Toyota off the lot anymore. Their lots here in Canada have been empty and wait times for some of their cars are as long as 15 months (the Prius).
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Aug 3, 2023 13:58
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Twerk from Home posted:https://twitter.com/GuyDealership/status/1686754232123129856?s=20 This is a misleading tweet at best. The sequoia starts at 60k and the most expensive one you can buy is like 79k. He’s making it seem like all sequoias are 80k and that’s just false. The pricing on full sized SUV’s is just batshit lately. I just ordered a 2024 Expedition to replace my 2020 and the thing is 89K for a fully loaded stealth performance package. The Toyota is reasonably priced when compared to the rest of the full size suv market. An Expedition Timberline which would be like a trd pro sequoia is like 85k.
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Aug 3, 2023 14:10
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I wonder if attitudes about Toyota also vary by if you're buying in a Gulf States Toyota area, or somewhere serviced by Toyota corporate? I'm realizing that peoples different experiences with Toyota dealer ordering (AKA waiting around for a similar car) may vary based on what distributor the dealer is under, and how lovely / aggressive they are. I believe Gulf States Toyota also sets incentives, and is really stingy with them. I'm laughing that someone has completely turned Gulf States Toyota's Wikipedia article into an ad for them, it used to mostly track lawsuits and research showing how they gently caress the consumer. https://money.cnn.com/2008/03/11/news/companies/taylor_toyota.fortune/index.htm quote:An FJ Cruiser it shipped to a Texas dealer recently was loaded up with a $2,251 "Extra Mile Option Package" that included such questionable features as a "door sill enhancement" and "custom tape stripe." Then came the "Vehicle Shield Package" at $349 with "lusterizing sealant," "sound shield," and "sealant cleaner." These are the kind of charges that give dealers a bad name. All of that helped jack up the price of the FJ Cruiser from a reasonable $24,135 to an exorbitant $32,873. I hate these middlemen. They take a big fat slice of profit and extra markup for the hard work of importing Toyotas into the US from where they're built, and also stuff lots of BS onto cars before they even hit the dealer.
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Aug 3, 2023 14:16
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Kraftwerk posted:Now they’re the only brand where I can still control things with dials and buttons. That is not even remotely true
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Aug 3, 2023 14:23
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Sab669 posted:They are the kings of perceived reliability.
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Aug 3, 2023 15:21
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Twerk from Home posted:I wonder if attitudes about Toyota also vary by if you're buying in a Gulf States Toyota area, or somewhere serviced by Toyota corporate? Southeast Toyota and Gulf States Toyota dealers are the absolute worst. I swore off Toyota products when I lived in the South because of those scoundrels. I recently moved up North to an area served by regular-rear end Toyota and was able to get a 4runner for a decent amount off MSRP and no port added accessories. Not even $75 iPhone cables or "Toyoguard". I highly recommend if you live in the South and want a Toyota to go through a broker that works with Northeast Toyota dealers and have the car shipped. It's cheaper and easier.
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Aug 3, 2023 15:25
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Twerk from Home posted:https://twitter.com/GuyDealership/status/1686754232123129856?s=20  In CAD, but still.
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Aug 3, 2023 18:56
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I just wanna know why Toyota continues to have supply issues and long wait times on their vehicles. Are they supply constrained? Or has demand simply outpaced what it was in say 2018? I think it's ridiculous that it takes 15 months to get a Prius and that stuff like RAV 4 primes are backed up 2 model years in backorders. Is anything actually being done to improve production or is Toyota leveraging the shortages as a way to raise prices accepting they can make better margin on fewer products than trying to make money on volume?
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Aug 3, 2023 19:06
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Anybody else bothered by the use of, “parabolic” when it’s fairly obvious they meant, “exponential?”
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Aug 3, 2023 19:29
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Full Collapse posted:Anybody else bothered by the use of, “parabolic” when it’s fairly obvious they meant, “exponential?” Yeah I kinda raised an eyebrow at that too but whatever.
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Aug 3, 2023 19:42
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One of my favorites was Toyota saying doing BEV is dumb because of supply constraints, and that's why they are instead focusing on PHEVs.... Only to not be able to stock or sell what 2 or 3 PHEVs models for 2+ years now? Cool your going to instead make everything a PRIME, but you cant loving make PRIMES for the cars you currently PRIME? I can imagine this is going to work out great on the Taco in 2024 when that rolls out. I just feel more and more every day its: Car Manufacturer says X. Car Manufacturer contradicts itself. Car Manufacturer switches to saying Y. Car Manufacturer contradicts itself. Repeat above times infinity.
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Aug 3, 2023 19:48
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Franco Caution posted:One of my favorites was Toyota saying doing BEV is dumb because of supply constraints, and that's why they are instead focusing on PHEVs.... They're obviously hiding something and trying to have a plausible explanation. I still don't get why we're dealing with supply chain issues and I'm starting to think that the new "meta" in the global economy is to artificially limit supply and cap-ex to drive prices up so you can make more money with less investment/effort. The old meta was to maximize volume as much as possible and use economies of scale, interchangeable parts, automation and modular platforms so your R&D is amortized over obscenely large volumes with the dealers footing the bill for carrying all the inventory the market can't absorb. By comparison it seems coming out with really promising supply constrained products lets you make shitloads of cash due to rising car prices while the secondary market (dealerships) makes their money from markups. Everyone wins now except the consumer who can neither get an affordable car anymore nor get a car at all unless they pay well above market price. Like these new Land Cruisers and Tacomas are going to be sold out well in advance of their official street date. The dealerships are probably already taking 5 grand deposits and building reservation lists before their ordering system even has a requisition available from the factory. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 19:57
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I don't think Toyota is interested in increasing capacity for whatever reason. They seem quite content according to this google search, to sell between 8 and 9 million cars a year. I'm sure there are a lot of business reasons for it, but I touch computers, I don't do business. https://www.statista.com/statistics/267272/worldwide-vehicle-production-of-toyota/
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Aug 3, 2023 19:59
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Now tell me why Honda hates us too. 
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Aug 3, 2023 20:07
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skipdogg posted:I don't think Toyota is interested in increasing capacity for whatever reason. They seem quite content according to this google search, to sell between 8 and 9 million cars a year. I'm sure there are a lot of business reasons for it, but I touch computers, I don't do business. Make extra margin on constricted supply- then avoid overcompensating for the high demand when the market hits a recession due to rising interest rates. I think that's the strategy. If Toyota started hiring more staff and opening up extra lines, building up extra inventory to sell to a overheating market and then everyone gets laid off as the employment market hits a downturn, they will take a financial beating too. I think they're looking at the 10 year trend for cas and figuring they're right where they need to be to avoid any downsizing during market downturns. My industry is a primary supplier of raw materials to among other things paints and coatings companies and I can tell you all summer nobody is painting their homes or renovating their houses. This tells me we're starting to get the hints of a recession or at least a soft landing in terms of economic activity and consumer demand as we get into Q4 and 2024. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 20:08
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Kraftwerk posted:They're obviously hiding something and trying to have a plausible explanation. It takes a while to unfuck 2 years of worldwide supply chain disruption. Think of it this way, how many dealerships does a company like Toyota have worldwide? Thousands? Tens of Thousands? Either way its a lot. Now you had dealerships operation with 5-10% of their normal inventory levels for a long time. Even if you suddenly have every supply chain issue resolved you have to fill in that ~90% of every single dealerships inventory, worldwide. For a company like toyota that sells 8+ million cars per year that's a whole lot of cars. They probably don't have much capacity for producing significantly in excess of their normal production levels. So unless there is a massive demand fall off (which there hasn't been) then you have to produce all the cars you would normally sell + a few million extra to get things back to normal. It will take years for all the automakers to get dealers the ideal 70-90 day inventory levels that make it conducive to selling volume with discounts. Also keep in mind the only slice of the pie that Toyota gets from price increases are MSRP changes and that has had more to do with inflation and production cost increases. They don't get anything back from dealers that are charging ADM's. Toyota would absolutely like to go back to selling their normal numbers and not be constantly supply constrained.
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Aug 3, 2023 20:17
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It's Toyota's perceived reputation for reliability among normal people that keeps them so relatively expensive despite being arguably kinda meh in many segments. There are so, so, so many regular not-a-car-person that just have it deeply baked into the brain that they should only ever buy a Toyota. They're terrified of the possibility of having to do a car repair. Maintenance is done begrudgingly and minimally. They absolutely will not even consider another brand, because in their head Toyota == most reliable == best. It's brand loyalty not built out of love, but out of fear. And all this is amplified even further in the used market. "Enjoy your Prius" is an internet trope among appliance car buyers asking what car to buy, which replaced "Enjoy your Corolla" in the past several years. These buyers will gladly pay the Toyota tax because it's the easiest way to do the "correct" thing. Obviously Toyota makes good vehicles that are generally quite reliable with low cost of ownership, but I think their reputation among normies has gotten far out ahead of the reality and has greatly distorted pricing. Pile on some lingering supply chain issues that Toyota doesn't seem terribly eager to fix, and that's how you get to where we are right now. Guinness fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 22:33
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that's fine, more Mazdas for me
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Aug 4, 2023 00:30
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I have a 2023 Prius LE AWD. It loving rules, it’s so stupid cheap to run, it handles OK, and the lane tracing is actually usable. Under $31k OTD for me, just feels like a lot of car for the money imo
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Aug 4, 2023 13:38
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Euronymous posted:I have a 2023 Prius LE AWD. It loving rules, it’s so stupid cheap to run, it handles OK, and the lane tracing is actually usable. Under $31k OTD for me, just feels like a lot of car for the money imo It costs me 198 Canadian dollars per month insurance to drive my Jetta. If I got the Prius that number goes up to like 328 and it’s even higher with other companies. The only thing on my record is an at fault accident from December 2015. Based on that alone I suspect my running costs are a wash because whatever I save on fuel gets eaten by insurance. But maybe Toyota maintenance is cheaper.
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Aug 4, 2023 14:16
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Kraftwerk posted:It costs me 198 Canadian dollars per month insurance to drive my Jetta. God drat, what the gently caress? I live in Michigan with notoriously high insurance and I pay ~$500 a year for my Fiesta
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Aug 4, 2023 14:19
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Dr. Lunchables posted:God drat, what the gently caress? I live in Michigan with notoriously high insurance and I pay ~$500 a year for my Fiesta Is that for just the absolute bare minimum liability? $40/mo would be an absurdly low insurance payment if you have a standard 100/300 liability and comprehensive insurance.
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Aug 4, 2023 15:17
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Dr. Lunchables posted:God drat, what the gently caress? I live in Michigan with notoriously high insurance and I pay ~$500 a year for my Fiesta It’s for comprehensive insurance with 2 million liability. 500 dollar deductibles for all perils. Also a rental allowance. It’s pretty bog standard and it could cost me 250 for the jetta with other companies. I live in the suburban Toronto area and insurance is mandatory here. So there’s allegedly a ton of fraud and insurance company influence on the govt that drives up premiums like crazy. My premiums go up every year with a clean record by about 15 per month until I switch to a cheaper company every 3 years.
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Aug 4, 2023 15:43
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Kraftwerk posted:It’s for comprehensive insurance with 2 million liability. 500 dollar deductibles for all perils. Also a rental allowance. Are you sure that's not 500 every 6 months? That is very, very cheap if not.
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Aug 4, 2023 15:56
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kill me now posted:Is that for just the absolute bare minimum liability? I have collision and comprehensive, yeah. $500 deductible, but full coverage. $215 total vehicle premium, $279 with applicable fees and state recoupments. Here’s my secret: I get quotes every six months, including new quotes from my current insurer. We have three vehicles insured, two with full coverage. They upped my policy cost about $200 with no changes in coverage, but then quoted me $200 less than I was previously paying on a different policy number with the same coverage. Fiesta ST: cheap to run, cheap to fix, cheap to insure.
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Aug 4, 2023 16:36
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Kraftwerk posted:It costs me 198 Canadian dollars per month insurance to drive my Jetta.
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Aug 4, 2023 21:03
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I live just a little bit west of Mississauga and have finally gotten below 1000 per year for my (soon to be 15 years old) Corolla. My Tacoma is still like 1200 or 1400 or something. I should know I just renewed. Glad I don't live in Brampton. I hear rates there are the highest in the province.
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Aug 4, 2023 21:05
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Those insurance rates sound insane. I pay €25 a month for insurance that covers every situation except damage to my own car caused by myself. I even get free towing if need be.
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Aug 4, 2023 21:45
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Debating getting rid of my Town Car and getting something with a bed and towing capacity, but fully do not want a full-size pickup. Been looking most closely at the Ford Maverick and Honda Ridgelines, the Ford is smaller and therefore all the numbers are smaller, but while I'd like another thousand pounds of towing capacity it's closer in size to what I want. The Ridgeline is more capable but also bigger all around. Mavericks are supposedly popular enough that they're difficult to find, not sure about Ridgelines (although they're getting a refresh this year?). Anyone have any opinions on those or another suggestion? I'm not opposed to something like a Ranger or Tacoma, but they're a bit higher up the size and price ranges.
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Aug 4, 2023 22:05
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Mr. Apollo posted:How much do you drive per year? I'm in Toronto and pay about $220 a month for my RS5 but I don't have any accidents or tickets on my record Officially I drive 10,000km per year for pleasure. In practice it’s more like 20,000-25,000 a year but they don’t need to know that. I think I’m just in a really expensive postal code. York Region. If I had a Peterborough address for example I’d probably cut my insurance in half. As I said my Jetta seems to be cheap with Allstate. 195 bucks per month just seems like a lot and it’s the cheapest I could find. I think insurance is a racket here.
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Aug 4, 2023 22:06
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Thanks thread, I quoted myself my exact policy as a new customer and saved about 33%.
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Aug 4, 2023 22:08
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boxen posted:Been looking most closely at the Ford Maverick and Honda Ridgelines, the Ford is smaller and therefore all the numbers are smaller, but while I'd like another thousand pounds of towing capacity it's closer in size to what I want. The Ridgeline is more capable but also bigger all around. If you want 1,000 more pounds tow then technically the Santa Cruz offers exactly that.
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Aug 4, 2023 22:10
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I've actually considered the Santa Cruz, I like the styling except for the grill but I'm not sure I trust Hyundai enough to buy one yet though. For something new that I might trade in a few years (vs owning for the next 10-15 years) that might not matter however.
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Aug 4, 2023 22:20
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