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I don't know what Baldur's Gate's deal is (never really looked at it, because ehhhh D&D), but planetary / galaxy scale simulation games like HoI, Stellaris, and Rimworld loving big caches is not a surprise. Big sims have to walk through big in-memory databases of all the simulated objects quite a lot, so fitting more of that DB into cache can speed up the sim a ton.
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Aug 5, 2023 10:00
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this allusion meant posted:noctua's adapters should allow you to offset mount, and that's more than good enough. reviews found the 7800x3d itself was using like 60w in games. you can maybe cap power target if you want but it's not relevant in games, only when doing full cpu load stuff Thats comforting to hear. I guess then, what I'd like to try to accomplish then, is getting temps low so the fan doesn't speed up as much? As far as OC settings go, I left everything at stock besides voltage offset (which is set to 0.085)  Just so I have another pair of eyes on this, this means that the CPU is going to do its thing at 0.085v less than stock? (luckily there seems to be no way to force a positive voltage change, which is definitely something I don't want to do.) Would that be sufficient, or should I be doing anything on top of that? I left PBO2 stuff untouched. I watched the PBO2 video again from Optimum Tech, but it brings up another question/potential misconception im having - a PBO negative offset reduces voltage, but it also tries to add more speed? Or is that another setting I have to mess with? I just want less voltage, I don't necessarily need extra performance from it. Or am I looking at this all through the wrong lens? Could I just do a negative PBO2 offset (like -15 to start) and then leave everything else out for less speed/fan noise?
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Aug 6, 2023 01:58
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buglord posted:Thats comforting to hear. I guess then, what I'd like to try to accomplish then, is getting temps low so the fan doesn't speed up as much? Zen3 and onwards doesn't handle manual voltage offsets very gracefully, I'd leave that at default. You can bring the power target down through PBO->PBO Limits->PPT Limit (and get some performance back with a PBO2 offset, if you want to deal with that) but you can also just set the fan curve to whatever you're comfortable with and let the boost algorithm do it's thing.
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Aug 6, 2023 02:30
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Arzachel posted:*snip* but you can also just set the fan curve to whatever you're comfortable with and let the boost algorithm do it's thing. Yeah, if you just don’t want the fan to be so loud, I’d just change your fan curve so that the max fan speed is the loudest you want to tolerate and try that for a while. If the cpu doesn’t throttle its clocks, you’re good.
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Aug 6, 2023 03:03
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buglord posted:Just so I have another pair of eyes on this, this means that the CPU is going to do its thing at 0.085v less than stock? (luckily there seems to be no way to force a positive voltage change, which is definitely something I don't want to do.) If you had a regular ryzen it would have the option for positive offset voltage, but the X3D locks that out. buglord posted:Or am I looking at this all through the wrong lens? Could I just do a negative PBO2 offset (like -15 to start) and then leave everything else out for less speed/fan noise? TBQH if you mainly care about fan speed & noise, my advice would be to leave the voltage at stock and concentrate on your fan curves. Voltage offsets... are tricky. You have to validate stability, and you also have to validate performance. Lower voltage may just result in the CPU doing weird things where you can end up with much less performance. I'm kinda meh on the whole negative voltage craze, particularly for anyone who is just looking for quick & easy tweaks rather than getting deep into an esoteric subject. OTOH anyone with ears can move the fan speed dial back and forth and find some spots that seem to have good RPM-vs-noise tradeoffs.
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Aug 6, 2023 04:05
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I’m away from the PC right now, but when I get back I’ll revert voltages to stock. Something I’m having trouble wrapping my mind around are fan curves, and like the rest of the platform BIOS levers I’m probably conceptually misunderstanding them. Call me out if I have the wrong idea here. A CPU cooler without a fan can do its job up until it gets saturated with heat, so if the heat source keeps dumping more heat it just gets hotter and hotter, right? Putting a fan on the fin stack removes heat and allows the metal to cool down when the processor load isn’t as high. So the higher the fan speed, the more you’re removing heat from the fin stack, so you get cooler temps. But if you start lowering the curve too much, would you get runaway temperatures because the CPU can never get itself to cool? Does the CPU just keep climbing until it hits a thermal limit then throttles back down? So at some point you’re actually hurting performance by having the fans too low? Sorry for all the rambling Q’s I’m trying to wrap my head around this. I’ve had setups in the past where noise wasn’t a concern so I made my CPU fan curves run more aggressively so there wasn’t a downside to worry about. So coming at this from another angle is new and scary.
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Aug 6, 2023 04:22
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That's basically on the money, especially with modern CPUs that love to draw power until they hit tjmax. Eventually you hit 90c and instead of the CPU getting hotter the performance just gets worse. It's also one of the reasons why dual tower coolers have gotten so popular - more thermal mass means you've got more headroom for heat to build up, and more surface area means you've got more avenues to get rid of it. The big thing for fan curves is optimizing performance versus noise, if you're approaching ninety the fans should already be running full bore. edit: maybe eco mode would calm things down a bit? DoombatINC fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Aug 6, 2023 |
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Aug 6, 2023 04:35
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You can always do a quick test by running a benchmark a few times with fans set to 100% and run it a few more times with it set to 50%. I’d bet you would only see like a 5-8% difference and only in all core workloads while lightly threaded workloads would be mostly unaffected.
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Aug 6, 2023 05:03
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buglord posted:Thanks for the advice everyone. I’m away from the PC right now, but when I get back I’ll revert voltages to stock. As Kibner said, to really push the CPU to max temp (it won't melt or damage it), use Cinebench. Run with the fan/fans at 100%, then 75%, then 50%. Watch the temps and see if there is a big difference. It will also depend on the cooler you have. Make sure it is rated for the CPU. The 7800x3D has a TDP of 120 watts. Also they do tend to run just a touch hotter than their non-3D version due to that extra cache. Check the max wattage your CPU Cooler supports. If you have something that is rated right at 120 watts, then the fans would have to run more often and faster to evacuate the heat, where if you have a cooler rated for say 220 watts, there is more thermal mass, so the heat can be dissipated "easier". This would be an example of a single tower cooler vs. a dual tower cooler. You might get a bit more noise reduction with a better fan. Some fans are just there to move air, that's it. Where some fans are made to be next to heat fins (whether those be a CPU Cooler or Radiator) and reduce the turbulence, thus reducing noise.
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Aug 6, 2023 06:30
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buglord posted:A CPU cooler without a fan can do its job up until it gets saturated with heat, so if the heat source keeps dumping more heat it just gets hotter and hotter, right? Putting a fan on the fin stack removes heat and allows the metal to cool down when the processor load isn’t as high. So the higher the fan speed, the more you’re removing heat from the fin stack, so you get cooler temps. But if you start lowering the curve too much, would you get runaway temperatures because the CPU can never get itself to cool? Does the CPU just keep climbing until it hits a thermal limit then throttles back down? So at some point you’re actually hurting performance by having the fans too low? Due to the ever shrinking feature size and chiplets not having much dead silicon to spread the heat around, newer AMD CPUs are much more likely to be bottlebecked by heat transfer from the die to the cooler before getting anywhere close to saturation. Cranking the fan on an air cooler won't do much to help with this so it's worth experimenting with fan curves to see how much real performance are you losing (if any). Fan Control and Argus Monitor (paid) are both good for software fan control if you don't feel like dealing with the BIOS fan curve implementations on your board.
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Aug 6, 2023 11:05
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I just wish Fan Control wasn't an Electron app.
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Aug 6, 2023 11:31
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I just wish Fan Control wasn't an Electron app. Do you say this every time it's mentioned? Or am I remembering incorrectly. In any case, no one gives a gently caress.
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Aug 6, 2023 14:13
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gently caress Electron apps.
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Aug 6, 2023 18:26
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LRADIKAL posted:Do you say this every time it's mentioned? Or am I remembering incorrectly. In any case, no one gives a gently caress. you should give a gently caress because lazy web development leaking into the desktop is fighting against all the performance we're trying to maximize
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Aug 7, 2023 04:03
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Combat Pretzel posted:gently caress Electron apps. Unused memory is wasted memory.
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Aug 7, 2023 08:57
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LRADIKAL posted:Do you say this every time it's mentioned? Or am I remembering incorrectly. In any case, no one gives a gently caress. i do
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Aug 7, 2023 09:03
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I just wish Fan Control wasn't an Electron app. Oh no, an app that does what it says on the tin uses 200MB ram. What shall I ever do with the rest of the 95.8GB of RAM in my system? Oh right. No one cares.
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Aug 7, 2023 09:14
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love how we're just pretending ram usage is the issue with electron now
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Aug 7, 2023 09:50
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Well I haven't noticed any CPU issues with fancontrol so 
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Aug 7, 2023 10:24
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personally i don't like how electron apps universally perform like the lovely web 2.0 apps they are, but hey, if you like waiting half a second for your apps to respond to basic input, more power to you 
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Aug 7, 2023 10:29
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I set it up and now it works without me loving with it... And only Teams was ever that bad. Fancontrol is fairly responsive.
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Aug 7, 2023 10:33
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gently caress Electron. I wouldn't mind them using even more ram if at least they would try to cache stuff to make it actually responsive to use. E: They use way too many resources for how sluggish they are.
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Aug 7, 2023 10:51
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LRADIKAL posted:Do you say this every time it's mentioned? Or am I remembering incorrectly. In any case, no one gives a gently caress. Systems programming languages haven't got slower (even if we set aside the boost in CPU performance, the code optimizes way more efficiently nowadays because of compiler changes in the intervening decades), and yet the actual user experience of using a computer feels slower than it did. There's probably not a single reason for it, I'll grant - but one of the biggest reasons is the proliferation of compute and memory, allowing developers to simply not care at all about optimizing code, up to and including using an interpreted language with a JIT for things that should be done in systems programming languages. Electron is, by far, the single biggest example of this phenomenon - so yes, I do feel the need to mention it.
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Aug 7, 2023 11:03
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it's not even limited to electron anymore, but it was lovely web apps that normalized that bullshit, and it's electron that moved it to the desktop app experience, and microsoft is now bravely following suit with actual native apps performing like absolute poo poo, seemingly without a loving care in the world that computers 3 billion times faster than those that existed in the 90s are slower for the end user it's even more jarring on macos or linuxes where immediacy is still present to some degree and then you install a discord/slack/etc and suddenly everything feels like you're computing through molasses but sure, electron apps are just fine because you have too much ram now i guess
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Aug 7, 2023 11:29
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Aug 7, 2023 11:41
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posted:
CLI frontend of your dreams!
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Truga posted:it's not even limited to electron anymore, but it was lovely web apps that normalized that bullshit, and it's electron that moved it to the desktop app experience, and microsoft is now bravely following suit with actual native apps performing like absolute poo poo, seemingly without a loving care in the world that computers 3 billion times faster than those that existed in the 90s are slower for the end user LMAO, even Notepad was made sluggish with their "upgrade"
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Aug 7, 2023 11:59
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Sininu posted:LMAO, even Notepad was made sluggish with their "upgrade" Yeah poo poo it's impressive Yes computers are faster but system responsiveness has not been a priority for a long time, and it shows
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Aug 7, 2023 12:08
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Sininu posted:LMAO, even Notepad was made sluggish with their "upgrade" And don't even get me started about how notepad and a bunch of other apps no longer remember their last size/position anymore.
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Aug 7, 2023 12:09
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there's some olympic-grade hyperbole happening itt right now. i promise you that the computers of the 90s were orders of magnitude more sluggish than what we have now.Indiana_Krom posted:And don't even get me started about how notepad and a bunch of other apps no longer remember their last size/position anymore. but this really is loving annoying, though
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Aug 7, 2023 12:29
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HalloKitty posted:Yes computers are faster but system responsiveness has not been a priority for a long time, and it shows Unfortunately the average computer user doesn't even understand that things can be better, so we're stuck with this poo poo forever. Maybe it'll start improving as CPU improvements generation on generation start slowing towards zero- oh who am I kidding the web people will just invent another inner platform and somehow using a supposed desktop app in 2030 on top of the line hardware will feel worse than windows 98 on a 486. BSD was right.
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Aug 7, 2023 12:32
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:there's some olympic-grade hyperbole happening itt right now. i promise you that the computers of the 90s were orders of magnitude more sluggish than what we have now. the SSD revolution was goddamn amazing and it arrived at a perfect time when moore was getting slaughtered already anyway, but that was a best-case-scenario one time event, and most of the boost that came with it has since been squandered, with windows 11 on a modern box at times appearing to behave as bad or worse than a win98 shitbox, *despite* the SSD difference but hey, we have 5 second boot times now! good thing too, because S3 sleep no longer works. better shut down your laptop every time you stop using it for 10 minutes, lmao  the entire OS industry and start over imo
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Aug 7, 2023 12:47
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I like it when I wiggle my mouse over an electron app my CPU usage goes to 99% and my room gets noticeably hotter.
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Aug 7, 2023 16:42
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Each electron app runs an entire chromium runtime beneath it. That's a good thing, actually. You're isolating yourself from the app. The app is isolated from you. It cannot hurt you anymore. It can only absorb RAM and CPU cycles, and did you know that for every instance of chromium spun up on this earth, an angel gets its wings?
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Aug 7, 2023 17:22
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FanControl gets detected as a gsync program so when I mouse over it the framerate drops to 30 or something and my mouse stutters. It's loving weird.
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Aug 7, 2023 17:22
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Make a bug report.
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Aug 7, 2023 17:26
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windowed gsync is always going to be janky by its nature, there's a reason why it's disabled by default
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Aug 7, 2023 17:46
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repiv posted:windowed gsync is always going to be janky by its nature, there's a reason why it's disabled by default But you need that to be enabled for borderless windowed games, and that's almost everything now
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Aug 7, 2023 18:08
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pointless post ignore this
HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Aug 7, 2023 |
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Aug 7, 2023 18:12
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VostokProgram posted:But you need that to be enabled for borderless windowed games, and that's almost everything now no you don't, there's a special case for borderless windows i only have fullscreen gsync enabled and i can see VRR working on the monitor OSD in borderless games
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Aug 7, 2023 18:15
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So like, why are you guys constantly loving with it? If fan control makes your PC light on fire when you interact with it, set some goddamn curves and close it to the tray. No GUI, no problem. Are you manually controlling your fans or some poo poo? Also if you hate electron apps and yet still use fan control instead of Argus Monitor, you are part of the problem. Electron is popular because it's very easy to slap together a multi-platform program with. Google does all of the heavy lifting, which is a good thing for a program that runs in admin mode all the time. Of course someone making free software is gonna use the easiest & lowest-maintenance platform. If your reaction to paying money is "no thanks, I'd rather hit my own dick with a hammer", then don't loving complain that your dick hurts. Sheesh. Some people.
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Aug 7, 2023 19:13
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