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I think they mean in the battle screen, where they'll act entirely normally unless you have a random unit of horsemen in the rear end end of nowhere, which the AI will suddenly decide to check.
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Aug 6, 2023 18:04
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It's difficulty dependent. If your battle difficulty is set to normal the AI won't account for units it can't see when advancing or giving orders. If you hide literally your entire army it breaks and just treats you as if it can see all your stuff is my understanding, but I've never run a 100% hidden force outside of LOS maps like the ones in khemri with the big central dune
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Aug 6, 2023 18:31
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I've never really had them check for hidden units in a flanking position if they can see the rest of my army, even on VH, especially if they have stalk or something.
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Aug 6, 2023 18:38
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I've just noticed if a unit is hidden they'll just really spread out, they don't really do that if i just have the typical dwarven gunline. I had a gunline with reiksguard in a forest and they definitely spread out way more than usual. It's kinda annoying.
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Aug 6, 2023 18:52
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wiegieman posted:The AI actually cannot see (as in, they don't exist for its calcs) armies in ambush stance that haven't been detected. Their agent spam lets them catch you out though. I believe they are referring to battle maps, where the AI clearly loving cheats all the time when it comes to knowing where hidden units are.
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Aug 6, 2023 20:28
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Psycho Landlord posted:It's difficulty dependent. If your battle difficulty is set to normal the AI won't account for units it can't see when advancing or giving orders. I've had fights where I've hidden my entire smaller force while waiting for reinforcements. The AI splits up its army into small groups and sections the entire map to find the two companies of spearmen cowering in the bushes. Never seen them beeline to the hiding spot, and usually keep the force hidden long enough for the reinforcements to arrive. I dunno, the AI goes into a battle knowing you have for ex four companies of cavalry so if it loads in and sees sixteen companies of infantry in a field beside a patch of seemingly unoccupied forest I don't think it's the height of perfidious AI cheating for it to assume you've hidden stuff. Players would do the exact same if the AI actually knew how to use formations beside 'two big lines'
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Aug 6, 2023 20:51
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I've never seen the AI beeline for units that stayed completely hidden, but if you break cover for even an instant it knows where they are afterward, which is in most cases a reasonable approximation of a human being able to guess what you were trying to do.
Sindai fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Aug 6, 2023 |
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Aug 6, 2023 21:00
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Sindai posted:I've never seen the AI beeline for units that stayed completely hidden, but if you break cover for even an instant it knows where they are afterward, which is in most cases a reasonable approximation of a human being able to guess what you were trying to do. I have never not had a game where this doesn't happen, but I also pretty aggressively use skirmish units (dogs) a lot early to mid game. It's not every map or battle, but it's consistent enough that the AI is clearly cheating. I suspect that it's something to do with start of battle awareness and orders going out that is bypassing typical awareness. It's one of the things that makes me refuse to play at the difficulty level of no quick saves/cheesing save/loading. I'm not eating an L because of the AI cheating on that scale.
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Aug 6, 2023 21:41
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I've used a lot of stalking units and the AI doesn't see them until they're discovered. If they manage to restealth the AI will send something in the last direction they went, but if you move sufficiently it won't find them.
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Aug 6, 2023 21:49
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Carcer posted:I've used a lot of stalking units and the AI doesn't see them until they're discovered. If they manage to restealth the AI will send something in the last direction they went, but if you move sufficiently it won't find them. this is the experience I've had. usually I'll leave my lord or something out in the open and the ai will path straight towards them. it's how you can get the ai to blob up for sick spell usage
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Aug 6, 2023 22:13
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I hope the DLC isn't really $25.00, that feels very steep for a lord pack.
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Aug 6, 2023 23:22
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Eh I'm fine paying $25 for something I'll likely get 10-20 hours of entertainment out of at minimum.
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Aug 7, 2023 01:48
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Champions of Chaos was 4 lords for $15 so the idea of paying $25 for 3 like a year later just feels like we're being ripped off.
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Aug 7, 2023 02:07
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I don't think ripped off is really the right word but the higher dlc price point has historically been for whole factions
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Aug 7, 2023 02:25
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$25 f9r three lords and a handful of units... I think I'll pass
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Aug 7, 2023 02:29
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TOOT BOOT posted:Champions of Chaos was 4 lords for $15 so the idea of paying $25 for 3 like a year later just feels like we're being ripped off. Jamwad Hilder posted:Eh I'm fine paying $25 for something I'll likely get 10-20 hours of entertainment out of at minimum. But who knows, maybe that leak was wrong on the cost.
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Aug 7, 2023 03:40
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I really doubt that price unless all 3 new lords have incredibly cool and elaborate mechanics or multiple factions get big satisfying overhauls in the patch. It would be a bizarre move after 4 lords for $16. In other news, the known issues list on Steam has been updated with a "list of issues probably fixed in 4.0" section with a very interesting entry: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1142710/discussions/2/3826413850811137613/ quote:AI moves just outside of player range.
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Aug 7, 2023 04:32
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Is this going to have the empire rework as well? Lol at adding another fucker to Karl's poo poo sandwich I'd that's the pan. E: the warriors of chaos lords felt like a sorry for the lovely launch pack Ah sorry I just saw the link to the alleged leak. Might be the first pack I pass on at launch and get on sale later. JBP fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Aug 7, 2023 |
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Aug 7, 2023 05:12
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Grimgor found an unexpected bonus while sacking his way around the donut 
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Aug 7, 2023 05:21
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JBP posted:Is this going to have the empire rework as well? Lol at adding another fucker to Karl's poo poo sandwich I'd that's the pan. Empire rework will come in the patch accompanying the DLC that's coming out in "winter 2023", so anywhere from December to February. This one will have reworks for Kislev, Cathay and Tzeentch. Since the reworks are also funded by the DLC, I don't mind the price if the reworks are substantial enough. The Kislev supporter race and having to control the three big cities is a bit bonkers if you're not playing Katrina or Kostaltyn. not a bot fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Aug 7, 2023 |
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Aug 7, 2023 07:55
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What agents do people use as agents? I basically don't use agents at all except as units in my armies, but I'm probably missing some tricks.
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Aug 7, 2023 10:07
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Nono, that's basically it. You can stack the income agents in some places, but typically you'll get way more mileage out of them just being shitkickers in an army than you will doing anything else. Every time I train up an assassin they just get hosed on a 80% chance or whatever, then they die. Not worth it imo.
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Aug 7, 2023 10:50
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About the only time I use agents on the world map is if I'm playing vampire counts, because assassinations (maybe just for wounding faction leaders) give you a blood kiss. Otherwise I just keep them in armies. Edit: also vampire coast for establishing pirate lairs actually
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Aug 7, 2023 11:16
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Elf nobles cruising around talking poo poo are good.
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Aug 7, 2023 11:16
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I think it used to be godly as VC to stack agents in your home province to recruit immediately level 9 units as well as boost your only decent province but I think they've adjusted it to just not be worth the effort anymore. I sometimes use a few agents to steal tech to boost it but if you head down that path it seems like it's actually easier and more efficient to just deselect your research each time you go into a fight to get more students.
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Aug 7, 2023 11:17
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JBP posted:Elf nobles cruising around talking poo poo are good. This too actually. Getting a bunch of influence early to recruit generals with insane bonuses, or more importantly, multiple mages with the administrator trait, is clutch. An admin lord + multiple admin mages running around making building free/only take one turn is so ridiculous once you work your way up to that.
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Aug 7, 2023 11:18
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Gort posted:What agents do people use as agents? I basically don't use agents at all except as units in my armies, but I'm probably missing some tricks. Nobles to farm influence. Back in WH2 days, playing as Volkmar you could recruit Arch Lectors at a rank high enough for the Blessed Holy War skill. This gave you a +1 for Warrior Priests and a 10% success chance for their actions. This would stack so you could even assassinate those annoying ancestor heroes that belong to Beleger. You could also spam their growth trait and get Altdorf to tier 5 in less than 30 turns. They've now nerfed it, so the Arch Lector no longer gets that skill.
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Aug 7, 2023 12:19
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I used to stack agents with research stealing abilities and abuse the poo poo out of them but it's micro hell and sucks. Not worth the hassle.
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Aug 7, 2023 12:25
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Gort posted:What agents do people use as agents? I basically don't use agents at all except as units in my armies, but I'm probably missing some tricks. Anything with assassinate or block I will generally keep one turn ahead of my army to watch for ambushes.
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Aug 7, 2023 12:49
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I'll use the agents to damage city walls so that the autoresolve is a bit more favourable so I don't have to actually play out the sieges.
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Aug 7, 2023 13:08
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Has the addition of wallbreaker units changed seiges in WH3?
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Aug 7, 2023 14:17
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Third World Reagan posted:Anything with assassinate or block I will generally keep one turn ahead of my army to watch for ambushes. Yeah I do this as well, but to be fair that habit got built from playing other total war titles where map agents were stronger. Assassinating or wounding every enemy agent that gets near used to be critical, but in WH3 it’s merely nice. Research agents would be more useful if it weren’t for the relative ease of collecting students (which frankly is dumb and should be changed). Agents are pretty strong in battles, so attaching the best ones to my armies is routine for sure.
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Aug 7, 2023 15:03
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The only time I regularly use agents on the campaign map is as Slaanesh or the Vampire Counts, and to a lesser extent the High Elves. Otherwise they are just too much of a pain for too little benefit and just sit in my armies. I used to use block army quite a bit more but now I find it much less necessary. Some of this was the supply lines change, so keeping a smaller army around as ambush bait is easier. It's also easier to keep or hire half-stacks for defense. Some of it is on the strategic layer too: for instance as Empire it is often a lower priority to even be able to recruit a Witch Hunter, so I don't (and I don't think Witch Hunters are generally worth putting in armies, so that doesn't help them). I also don't tend to immediately try to upgrade border provinces so I feel their loss less, and worry less about getting sacked from behind. Usually what I'll do is just before I besiege a city, I'll send all available agents to do their action on the city, then either besiege and wait a turn if I need the hero help, or just occupy and then re-load up the heroes next turn before moving on. Managing swarms of agents is just too much of a pain and I want them to go away. Keep heroes as battle agents only, imo. E: or let them lead 5-unit detachments if you really wanted to. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Aug 7, 2023 |
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Aug 7, 2023 15:35
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The student mechanic is so very bad. They should either change to condition to get these or just remove them.
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Aug 7, 2023 15:37
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So Grimgor is pretty much the easiest campaign now, right? Tier 5 settlement on turn 2, biggest WAAAHG in the first 5 turns, plus every Cathayan convoy makes a stop just outside of Zarr Naggrund. It's worth it to just park a poo poo stack of goblins there and wait for the money to roll in.
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Aug 7, 2023 15:59
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Chemtrailologist posted:So Grimgor is pretty much the easiest campaign now, right? E: well, I'm not. Also there is another settlement nearby you can also ambush every caravan with, but I can't remember your name. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Aug 7, 2023 |
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Aug 7, 2023 16:26
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as for agents, I tend to use assassins and steal tech. while students get the ball rolling eventually you need enough heroes to hold onto them which doesn't usually happen early game. assaulting armies and blocking matters more for helping out your allies. oh and sometimes if I'm a faction that has has low public order I'll use a heroes to damage them via assault so my garrison can more easily take them plus los to huge swaths of the map I'd always good for not getting snuck up on. also there are trains for doing actions repeatedly and which can stack up to silly numbers
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Aug 7, 2023 16:31
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Agents just do so much good poo poo for your army and can be difficult to get. The exception is necromancers which basically grow on trees.
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Aug 7, 2023 17:09
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stealing tech is the worst part of this game
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Aug 7, 2023 17:12
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Lawdog69 posted:The student mechanic is so very bad. They should either change to condition to get these or just remove them. Yeah they seem expressly designed to be cheesed. If you play the game normally you won't get them at all, but if you do "one simple trick" then you'll pick them up every other turn and break the research mechanic over your knee.
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Aug 7, 2023 17:30
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