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Well I was going through W20 Book of the Wyrm again because of all this. The first chapter on the Wyrm's lore says the Weaver grew "conscious" and purposefully trapped the Wyrm so it would stop destroying all the Weaver's poo poo. Also the Defiler Wyrm is noted to be the most "self-aware" of the three major Wyrm bits. I dunno if this is just Garou mythology and should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Aug 9, 2023 18:36
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NikkolasKing posted:I dunno if this is just Garou mythology and should be taken with a grain of salt. For me, the objective truth of the matter is less important than the characterization. The Wyrm in W5 has very little life to it. Nessus posted:Anyway, Hrugguth, the Urge-Wyrm of Skullfucking, is planning to piss purple poo poo into your water supply:" Like this…I miss Hrugguth the purple pisser. 
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Aug 9, 2023 21:29
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Is the idea that your ST will create your own mythos and so forth, or is it more a case of "Hrugguth the purple-pisser isn't what matters, and the Garou have wasted their energies going after it"? I guess I should not talk too much mess about W5 since I did not back it/read the playtest stuff, it just sounds a lot more like they're leaving aside the poo poo that made Werewolf cool. e: Which, to be clear, is stuff like Umbral adventures and splatterpunk death matches against preposterous cosmic entities with the underlying concept of it really at least kind of works! If you kill Hrugguth, the purple pissing WILL stop, because it comes from him! The part where they're hosing off the 90s racisms is good if, from these reports, contested.
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Aug 9, 2023 21:55
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W5 doesn’t go into the fine details of the Wyrm much. Hell, it doesn’t even define the Umbra past the Penumbra, and I think that’s a deliberate choice rather than planning to flesh it out in supplements. As far as the Wyrm goes, we’re given a rough idea of its cosmology as stated above, the fact that the Pentex Group is its major factor on Earth through its fealty to Fly, the lowdown on the BSDs, and the existence of Banes. One of the things the book emphasizes is that the Wyrm is served and fueled by having humans act in destructive ways rather than by forcing humans to do that. There’s a strong implication in the Banes section that the Wyrm, being an entity of destruction, can’t create destructive and malevolent behavior in humans but it can seize on existing urges to strengthen and exploit them. You don’t become hosed up by having a Bane jump into you, you are hosed up enough that a Bane becomes drawn to you and then jumps in you to make you worse. That part is key - a Bane needs to be invited to possess you, whether or not you do so consciously or subconsciously.
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Aug 9, 2023 23:05
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Ah, a personal responsibility model of fomori. Is it still OK to waste Pentex executives and/or First Teams?
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Aug 9, 2023 23:29
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Nessus posted:Ah, a personal responsibility model of fomori. Is it still OK to waste Pentex executives and/or First Teams? Of course it is, they are the foot soldiers of the Apocalypse. Rip their heads off. Or don't, you know, be your own Garou.
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Aug 9, 2023 23:47
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Nessus posted:Ah, a personal responsibility model of fomori. Is it still OK to waste Pentex executives and/or First Teams? It is always morally correct.
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Aug 9, 2023 23:55
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Dawgstar posted:It is always morally correct. 
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Aug 9, 2023 23:56
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Are Ratkin still objectively the best fera?
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Aug 10, 2023 03:12
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Loomer posted:Are Ratkin still objectively the best fera? No clue, there's no rules or mention of them in the book, at least that I could see.
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Aug 10, 2023 03:48
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Loomer posted:Are Ratkin still objectively the best fera? Raven shifters and spider shifters get mentioned and statted in the back, I don't remember if ratkin were mentioned anywhere specifically
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Aug 10, 2023 03:48
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Loomer posted:Are Ratkin still objectively the best fera? They're not Corax, so no. 
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Aug 10, 2023 03:49
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Dawgstar posted:They're not Corax, so no.
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Aug 10, 2023 03:58
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Loomer posted:Are Ratkin still objectively the best fera? Yes. I don't actually know how they'll be presented in W5, if at all. I've only had time to skim the PDF so far. But yes.
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Aug 10, 2023 04:08
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I can't believe Loomer got something about the WoD wrong.Dawgstar posted:They're not Corax, so no.
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Aug 10, 2023 05:18
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gently caress Corax. Bunch of winged assholes. Give me my filthy disease spreading trailer park guys any day.
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Aug 10, 2023 05:57
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Loomer posted:Give me my filthy disease spreading trailer park guys any day. But you just said you didn't want crow people. Make up your mind!
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Aug 10, 2023 07:20
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The best breeds are the bats, boars, and cows. Because only in death has a changing breed stopped failing Gaia 
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Aug 10, 2023 07:59
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I always liked the concept of the Bastet, but I think they didn't need to have a similar auspice/tribe system to werewolves.
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Aug 10, 2023 08:03
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The Fera always felt to me like something that was there just to guilt-trip the Garou. Ground zero for W5's "you need to be constantly reminded that you are bad and wrong" approach to Werewolf. As such, I always left them out of my games. The fact that the first Breedbook (yikes on that mintage, guys) was peak Brucato bullshit, didn't help. The hilarious World of Darkness: Changing Breeds for nWoD just felt like the natural culmination of what Breedbook Bastet started. Edit: gently caress it, if we're doing this, I always had a soft spot for the Mokole. dingo with a joint fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Aug 10, 2023 |
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Aug 10, 2023 09:12
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I always liked the concept of the Bastet, but I think they didn't need to have a similar auspice/tribe system to werewolves. They also didn't need the lions to literally be called Simba, which is a meaningless word in any real language and isn't even word adjacent in Swahili or any of the other major central and eastern African languages.
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Aug 10, 2023 09:14
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Fuzz posted:They also didn't need the lions to literally be called Simba, which is a meaningless word in any real language and isn't even word adjacent in Swahili or any of the other major central and eastern African languages. I mean, I'm no native speaker, but every reference I find says that 'simba' is straight-up the Swahili word for 'lion,' including every Swahili-English translation app I've tried. https://www.jenmansafaris.com/real-meanings-names-lion-king-characters/
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Aug 10, 2023 14:42
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dingo with a joint posted:The Fera always felt to me like something that was there just to guilt-trip the Garou. Ground zero for W5's "you need to be constantly reminded that you are bad and wrong" approach to Werewolf. As such, I always left them out of my games. Molkolé are in fact cool and good. Really, classic Werewolf is at its best when it turns into "Mid 90's cartoon about anthropomorphic animal beings punching things to death" So your TMNT, Street Sharks, Biker Mice, etc, with like 90 gallons of blood on everything
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Aug 10, 2023 16:12
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I also support the Mokole as I can easily imagine Boss Gator in the world swamp. Brother Rat and his pizza slice have their places of course but I don’t see the huge appeal of Ratkin. Is it just because they’re Skaven?
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Aug 10, 2023 16:28
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Corax are also Mokole' so double cool and good.Gravitas Shortfall posted:I always liked the concept of the Bastet, but I think they didn't need to have a similar auspice/tribe system to werewolves. What the Bastet really didn't need was Yava, the weirdly debilitating three secrets every tribe has that are exceedingly specific or bizarrely crippling like "Khan can't go out at night." They did away with it in Revised but brought them back in W20 to be ignored like they usually were.
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Aug 10, 2023 16:44
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Nessus posted:I also support the Mokole as I can easily imagine Boss Gator in the world swamp. Brother Rat and his pizza slice have their places of course but I don’t see the huge appeal of Ratkin. Is it just because they’re Skaven? That's Mother Rat. No, it's not because of Skaven; I have no interest in 40k, and the skaven are filthy, pitiless things. It's because of good taste.
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Aug 10, 2023 19:19
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Nessus posted:I also support the Mokole as I can easily imagine Boss Gator in the world swamp. Brother Rat and his pizza slice have their places of course but I don’t see the huge appeal of Ratkin. Is it just because they’re Skaven? There's always going to be an appeal for the faction that is willing to fight dirty and the leave out the pretensions.
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Aug 10, 2023 19:43
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Mushika posted:That's Mother Rat. No, it's not because of Skaven; I have no interest in 40k, and the skaven are filthy, pitiless things. It's because of good taste. Interestingly there's a variation? Sub-Incarna? Anyway, there is Rat in a masculine aspect called the Rat God and the Ratkin (and Bone Gnawers) who follow him tend to be extremists, if I remember right. Like even for Ratkin who'll blow up a fast food restaurant because it looked at them funny. Scumdangle Elfbiter lives!
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Aug 10, 2023 20:22
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Post-90s WW has consistently failed to manage to have any good stakes in their games, and it's not even rocket science to come up with a decently badass scenario. Old Mage: "You're fighting a WAR for REALITY and loving MEN IN BLACK are evil wizards and there's all these crazy wizards who blow up reality and these corrupted guys are trying to Hellraiser everybody for fun." Later Old Mage: "Uh the reality war fizzled out and apathy won I guess." New Mage: "There are ancient wizards out there somewhere that you'll never see but some minions of theirs might mess with you or something?" Old Werewolf: "You're fighting a hosed UP GOD who's trying to ruin the whole world, and there's this evil corporation that's secretly serving it and tons of mutants and evil spirits and crazy poo poo off a metal album cover that you have to fight while being all connected to nature and spirits and stuff but your friends are all hair-trigger assholes who disagree about everything." New Werewolf: "You're the spirit cops and some other werewolves think you suck and will probably try to fight you, idk." New-new Werewolf: "The world's hosed, so go kill Elon Musk or something I guess it's all his fault."
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Aug 10, 2023 20:27
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Yaaaawn, typical editorializing. I could describe the 90s games in lowercase and the 00s games in all caps and achieve the same effect reversed.
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Aug 10, 2023 20:38
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So do it. Show nWoD's setups in such a positive light, if it's so easy.
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Aug 10, 2023 21:37
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New Mage: "You are SECRET AGENTS in the WAR FOR REALITY against the very ideas of OPPRESSION AND HIERARCHY as well as alternate timelines and dead universes that want to come back to life and poo poo all over everything." Old Mage: "You're one of a bunch of new-agey reactionaries who are fighting modernism, and there are super wild things going on except that's all metaplot and changes with the next book before your game can get to it."
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Aug 10, 2023 21:53
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Dawgstar posted:Interestingly there's a variation? Sub-Incarna? Anyway, there is Rat in a masculine aspect called the Rat God and the Ratkin (and Bone Gnawers) who follow him tend to be extremists, if I remember right. Like even for Ratkin who'll blow up a fast food restaurant because it looked at them funny. It's essentially the same for the Ratkin. From the Breedbook: quote:Gender is always a tricky concept where Totems are concerned. Most followers of Rat know Her as the Mother of All Ratkin, one of the most faithful children of Gaia. Bone Gnawers and most Ratkin always refer to Rat as “She.” Only the insane refer to Rat as “He.” The most delusional refer to their totem as the Rat God. Such blasphemy is particularly common among Twitchers and highly-violent Warriors. Many Ratkin in North America have been adopting this delusion with increasing frequency. Dawgstar posted:Scumdangle Elfbiter lives! Indeed!
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Aug 10, 2023 22:03
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nu-wolf: Marilyn Moonroe is still mad about the assassination of John F. Kennedy (the F. stands for "Furry") and the Keystone K9 Unit is on the job
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Aug 10, 2023 22:08
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disposablewords posted:New Mage: "You are SECRET AGENTS in the WAR FOR REALITY against the very ideas of OPPRESSION AND HIERARCHY as well as alternate timelines and dead universes that want to come back to life and poo poo all over everything." New Mage: I carved my name into the spine of reality and that's not even in the TOP TEN most hosed up things I'm going to see or do THIS WEEK omage: reality's like, whatever man. you do you. oh no men in black
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Aug 10, 2023 22:42
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I do wish we could get over the whole 'Forsaken are spirit cops' (or even more gross, spirit ICE) because it's not accurate.
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Aug 10, 2023 23:11
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disposablewords posted:New Mage: "You are SECRET AGENTS in the WAR FOR REALITY against the very ideas of OPPRESSION AND HIERARCHY as well as alternate timelines and dead universes that want to come back to life and poo poo all over everything." I must grant you, the metaplot poo poo in oWoD is indefensible, and my group just ignored it and stuck with the core book setting stuff. I cannot argue for the stupid crap they stuck into the oWoD lines over time.
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Aug 10, 2023 23:12
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Dawgstar posted:I do wish we could get over the whole 'Forsaken are spirit cops' (or even more gross, spirit ICE) because it's not accurate. It really isn't. nWolf 2e is one of the most community-focused, directed games in the entire line, with the core question being "how do you help and improve the lives of people you care about when your primary skill is violence and a lot of problems cannot be solved violently? plus, also, you get to fight gribblies"
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Aug 10, 2023 23:22
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oWoof: oh no it's captain planet nuWoof: WE ARE MAKING THIS ENTIRE APARTMENT BLOCK OUR QUEER ANARCHIST COMMUNE WEATHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT
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Aug 10, 2023 23:56
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Soonmot posted:QUEER ANARCHIST COMMUNE WEATHER 🌈🌧 hell yeah
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Aug 11, 2023 00:41
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