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Jen heir rick
Aug 4, 2004
when a woman says something's not funny, you better not laugh your ass off

Shooting Blanks posted:

If we had to impeach/prosecute every politician who's had a kid try to trade on their name, I'm not sure we'd have many politicians left.

But what's the downside?

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cool kids inc.
May 27, 2005

I swallowed a bug

Craig K posted:

in all fairness, boomer conservatives still hate "Hanoi Jane" Fonda

This is definitely true. Hell my folks still think the Beatles are Communist propaganda. John Lennon may as well be Lenin for how they see him and he's been dead for 40 years.

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Republicans! posted:

“President Biden’s defenders purport a weak defense by asserting the Committee must show payments directly to the President to show corruption,” the House Oversight Republicans wrote.

“This is a hollow claim no other American would be afforded if their family members accepted foreign payments or bribes. Indeed, the law recognizes payments to family members to corruptly influence others can constitute a bribe,” the memo says.
:psyduck: They're really going with "anybody whose family member ever took a bribe, took a bribe themselves"?

I think Merrick Garland should make some calls to GOP legislators and remind them of the precedent they may be attempting to set.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



So many people lost their poo poo on Susan Sarandon in 2016. Like to an insanely unhealthy degree. Her one vote was never going to decide the election but the way some people reacted to her not voting for Hillary, you would have thought that she single-handedly put Trump in the White House

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Eh. I do think that what she did, in advocating for not voting for Clinton, was bad (although I understand many people on this site strongly disagree.) But yeah, who cares? She's a good actress. It's weird how people let stuff like that mess with their image of a person they don't even actually know.

It's also weird that the one very popular band that actually said anarchist-adjacent political poo poo in my lifetime, conservatives love, because they have such good guitar riffs, it sounds angry and it's easy to ignore the words. (Or at least enough of them to have a serious misconception about what "The Machine" is.)

Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Aug 10, 2023

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

Mellow Seas posted:

:psyduck: They're really going with "anybody whose family member ever took a bribe, took a bribe themselves"?

I think Merrick Garland should make some calls to GOP legislators and remind them of the precedent they may be attempting to set.

They are just kind of throwing out words for public consumption. It's not really setting any precedent or supposed to make any sense.

The law they are citing is that if you take a bribe and perform an official act for that bribe, then it is still a bribe even if you said, "I will direct this contract to you illegally, but you have to give my wife seed money to start her business." it is still a bribe because of the official act.

They still aren't asserting that Biden performed any official act for China/Russia (but, they say that there may still be something and that is why they need to open an impeachment inquiry to investigate). So they are just kind of implying that something must have been done for China/Russia/Kazakhstan because Hunter Biden wouldn't have had his business hired unless Joe Biden was doing things for him. They initially said he was getting paid to do it, but they have backed away from that.

selec
Sep 6, 2003

Man what the gently caress have Supreme Court journalists been doing? Is there a parallel set of junkets that they send useless stenographers like Nina Totenberg on to keep them from doing the work ProPublica has been doing? How the gently caress do you get your lunch eaten this badly and not just step back and ask what the point of your life’s work has been, if not to do the work that others are doing far better than you ever did?

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

selec posted:

Man what the gently caress have Supreme Court journalists been doing? Is there a parallel set of junkets that they send useless stenographers like Nina Totenberg on to keep them from doing the work ProPublica has been doing? How the gently caress do you get your lunch eaten this badly and not just step back and ask what the point of your life’s work has been, if not to do the work that others are doing far better than you ever did?

Maybe they were on vacation too and hoping no one noticed.

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice

Mellow Seas posted:

:psyduck: They're really going with "anybody whose family member ever took a bribe, took a bribe themselves"?

I think Merrick Garland should make some calls to GOP legislators and remind them of the precedent they may be attempting to set.

Well your big problem there is thinking they intend to set a precedent based on fairness or, hell, even observable reality. They are doing no such thing. Never forget that hypocrisy is the fascist super power. They want their enemies punished, and their team protected. Doesn't matter if it's for doing the same thing in both situations. Enemies punished, themselves protected. Fin.

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

bird food bathtub posted:

Well your big problem there is thinking they intend to set a precedent based on fairness or, hell, even observable reality. They are doing no such thing. Never forget that hypocrisy is the fascist super power. They want their enemies punished, and their team protected. Doesn't matter if it's for doing the same thing in both situations. Enemies punished, themselves protected. Fin.
Well, yeah, sure. It's just, like... they know we can hear them, right? It's another example of Republicans having to do something that turns off a bunch of voters because they would lose too many of their own if they were 1% less lovely. I'm sure the majority of the members in the House realize how stupid it is. But they all have primaries next year, so they're all going to go along with it. Maybe one or two won't - they're gone after the next election.

e: You know, I'm kind of wondering - why would you even want to impeach Biden?

Isn't it just better to keep throwing out innuendo and questioning guys like Archer in private, so they can spin/lie about what about he said? And just let your media organs push the story out to your base? Instead you're putting yourself in a situation where all these people with flimsy allegations are going to have to deal with guys like Ron Wyden and Richard Blumenthal making them look stupid with incredibly simple questions, in the most public forum possible.

They saw how impeachment affected public opinion when they impeached a guy who had actually committed the crime he was accused of. Granted, the made up Biden crimes are more serious than the real Clinton crime was, but man oh man are they out on a limb on this one.

(At least they have some SA posters on their side! :v:)

Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Aug 10, 2023

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

Shooting Blanks posted:

If we had to impeach/prosecute every politician who's had a kid try to trade on their name, I'm not sure we'd have many politicians left.

I for one welcome our new incel overlords.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

selec posted:

Man what the gently caress have Supreme Court journalists been doing? Is there a parallel set of junkets that they send useless stenographers like Nina Totenberg on to keep them from doing the work ProPublica has been doing? How the gently caress do you get your lunch eaten this badly and not just step back and ask what the point of your life’s work has been, if not to do the work that others are doing far better than you ever did?

Covering court decisions is an entirely different and resource intensive area of journalistic work. Other outlets have in fact been reporting on this stuff for more than a decade using investigative staff, which is part of why the supreme court now has the disclosure guidelines which formed part of the basis of this raft of coverage.

Mendrian
Jan 6, 2013

Sometimes I try to imagine how a no-gifting law would be implemented and enforced in the US and while it sounds nice it feels like it would be impossible.

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

Soiled Meat

Mendrian posted:

Sometimes I try to imagine how a no-gifting law would be implemented and enforced in the US and while it sounds nice it feels like it would be impossible.

I mean, you can set gifting limits. Pretty much every business has rules about accepting gifts over a certain amount. I can't accept anything over $50, why can someone in the Supreme Court?

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
DeSantis is having the first debate of the 2024 primary field... against California Governor Gavin Newsom.

This is kind of sad in a way, but I honestly have to give DeSantis credit for accepting the challenge. He loses some points for saying he won't debate unless it is on Fox News and moderated by Sean Hannity, though.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1689350956650016768

quote:

'Like a boxing match': Ron DeSantis and Gavin Newsom embrace ‘risk’ in surprise debate

Peter Thiel, the billionaire tech entrepreneur and benefactor of right-wing causes, opened last year’s National Conservatism Conference in Miami with a dense slideshow presentation during which he argued that regardless of whom Democrats nominate for president, their model for governance will mirror the social and economic policies of California.

Thiel contended it was imperative for conservatives to coalesce around a model that ran counter to California. And there was one he saw that could fit the bill.

“[Gov. Ron] DeSantis in Florida is probably the best of the governors in terms of offering a real alternative to California,” Thiel said, “[who has] tried to tackle California in some ways.”

Almost a full year later, DeSantis, who followed Thiel as a keynote speaker at the conference, is seeking to seize upon the California vs. Florida debate in an effort to juice his stalled presidential campaign.

Last week, DeSantis accepted an invitation from California Gov. Gavin Newsom — who has for months sought to challenge DeSantis face-to-face — to participate in a debate hosted by Fox News host Sean Hannity. The event is so far framed around the many policy differences between the two governors. But with both men either actively running for president or widely viewed to someday seek the office, it’s highly likely their personal differences will be on display, too.

As political strategists on both sides of the aisle told NBC News, DeSantis’ acceptance was not coming from a place of strength; he agreed to the challenge as his poll numbers have been trailing off and he seeks to reset his campaign.

What’s more, the one-on-one showdown carries considerable risk for the Florida governor, these strategists said, should he stumble or falter in the setting. With Newsom not running for president, DeSantis is taking time to confront an opponent who isn’t actually an opponent for 2024.

But some strategists said this still is a risk worth taking for DeSantis, in no small part because of the interest a California vs. Florida contest could draw in prime time.

“It’s a decent idea because Ron DeSantis has to find a way to break through and make some news on his own that’s not about Donald Trump,” Justin Clark, Trump’s 2020 deputy campaign manager and GOP pollster with National Public Affairs, said. “This does carry some risk — it’s not a Hail Mary, but it’s going for it on 4th down late in the first half.”

While DeSantis’ campaign has signaled it will lessen its focus on Florida to emphasize a broader message, the pending debate shows Sunshine State politics remain where the candidate finds his strongest footing.

“This gimmick is a sign of internal desperation after firing one-third of the staff amid a monthlong reset,” a Republican operative working with a rival campaign said. “If DeSantis and his team finally engaging with mainstream media interviews wasn’t a sign of how tough it’s gotten for him, this sure is.”

The event is not without risk for Newsom, either. For starters, it will be moderated by a right-wing opinion host — although Newsom’s calculus is that having Hannity moderate neutralizes a leading reason for DeSantis not to participate. Should DeSantis come across well, scoring points on Newsom in the process, the California governor could inadvertently play a role in boosting DeSantis’ GOP primary campaign while harming his own prospects for higher office.

At the same time, a strong performance could help elevate the California governor in what, for now, is a shadow 2028 campaign, in which Newsom is already considered a top-tier contender alongside fellow Democratic governors like J.B. Pritzker in Illinois, Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan and Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania, as well as Vice President Kamala Harris.

Jared Leopold, a Democratic strategist who formerly worked at the Democratic Governors Association, said the only thing that surprised him in this process was the selection of Hannity as moderator.

“There is some risk, but there’s also a real potential reward in going into the lion’s den and coming out unscathed,” he said. “Newsom is basically agreeing to do this on DeSantis’ turf. And it’s going to take a lot of prep. But if he can go in and he can clearly state his case despite the stacked odds, it can be a huge win for him and it’s a big stage.”

It’s a big stage that will allow Newsom to tell a story about California nationally — a story he “will tell as whatever point that he runs for national office,” Leopold said.

“Politics is showmanship and this is a huge opportunity to put on a good show,” Leopold added. “Having this sort of prime-time fight, like a boxing match, it’s a venue where you can reach people because people want to see that kind of battle.”

Newsom has pledged not to run for president in 2024, but he has for the past year sought to take the fight to leading Republicans, including DeSantis. He made headlines last year after joining Trump’s social media site, Truth Social, and launched ads in Florida targeting DeSantis’ positions on education and abortion rights. The two governors have also repeatedly tangled on Covid, crime, guns and immigration — including in June when Newsom told NBC News he was planning to launch an investigation into planes of migrants flown to California, which were orchestrated by DeSantis’ administration.

The Newsom/DeSantis battle began amid a wider effort by Democrats in 2022 to redefine the argument around personal “freedoms” as culture war battles championed by DeSantis dominated the midterm landscape. Though DeSantis overwhelmingly won re-election, Democrats implemented such messaging to great success, besting Republicans in a number of critical swing-state races where it was prominently featured.

For DeSantis and like-minded allies, though, the Florida vs. California debate isn’t much of a fight. DeSantis has contrasted Florida’s increasing population (which the Census Bureau projected has risen by about 700,000 from April 2020 to July 2022) with California’s decreasing population (which the Census Bureau projected has decreased by about 500,000 from April 2020 to July 2022) as evidence that his model isn’t just winning, it’s already won.

In a memo to supporters, DeSantis’ campaign argued the candidate is squaring off with Newsom “to highlight the choice facing American voters next year."

“The left wants America to follow the path of California’s decline — Ron DeSantis wants to reignite the American Dream, restore sanity, and ensure our nation’s best days are ahead,” the memo read.

Speaking with NBC News in a recent interview, DeSantis said next fall’s general election will essentially be a choice between wanting the country run like Florida or like California.

“[President Joe] Biden basically would like to Californicate the United States,” he said. “Biden also may not be the nominee. You could have Kamala from California. You could have Newsom.”

It is not yet a sure thing the debate will take place, though both parties have now hyped the showdown. On Saturday, Nathan Click, a Newsom spokesperson, slammed DeSantis’ counter on the conditions for the debate as “a joke” that was “littered with crutches to hide his insecurity and ineptitude."

Newsom’s initial debate offer stated the governor wanted both men to use no notes, that the contest would feature no live audience and that both men would have four minutes of opening remarks. DeSantis’ counter called for a live audience, both governors being able to use a pen and paper during the program and opening statements swapped for a two-minute long hype video at the start of the debate. The two offered varying dates and locations but both included Nov. 8 and Georgia in their proposals.

Meanwhile, a person familiar with the Republican National Committee's debate criteria said DeSantis' face-off with Newsom would not violate the RNC’s requirement that candidates who appear in its approved debates do not participate in unsanctioned primary debates.

“This battle has the mystique of what the World Series used to be,” Leopold said of when Major League Baseball’s championship round marked the only time when American League and National League teams faced off in games that counted. “Because you have these two separate worlds where California can talk about investing in clean energy, and investing in programs that help the social safety net. And Florida has dismantled all of that. And there’s a real contrast in stories and it’s playing out in real time, as opposed to just a hypothetical.”

A second Republican aligned with a rival candidate said that although the event “reeks a little bit of desperation” since Newsom is not on the ballot next fall, a good showing by DeSantis could be beneficial for Republicans broadly.

“Gavin has most to gain from this because it just grants legitimacy to his shadow campaign-in-waiting in hopes that Biden doesn’t run in 2024,” this person said. “If DeSantis does well — and to be quite frank, if you’ve watched his debate videos, it’s hit or miss — then it’s a plus for Republicans. But it really is a toss-up. And there’s so many different factors you have to consider here.”

One factor, of course, is whether people even tune in.

“I mean, I watched the 2016 debates with popcorn,” this operative said of whether they will watch. “So probably, yeah. Just for the entertainment factor.”

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

Mellow Seas posted:

Well, yeah, sure. It's just, like... they know we can hear them, right? It's another example of Republicans having to do something that turns off a bunch of voters because they would lose too many of their own if they were 1% less lovely. I'm sure the majority of the members in the House realize how stupid it is. But they all have primaries next year, so they're all going to go along with it. Maybe one or two won't - they're gone after the next election.

e: You know, I'm kind of wondering - why would you even want to impeach Biden?

Isn't it just better to keep throwing out innuendo and questioning guys like Archer in private, so they can spin/lie about what about he said? And just let your media organs push the story out to your base? Instead you're putting yourself in a situation where all these people with flimsy allegations are going to have to deal with guys like Ron Wyden and Richard Blumenthal making them look stupid with incredibly simple questions, in the most public forum possible.

They saw how impeachment affected public opinion when they impeached a guy who had actually committed the crime he was accused of. Granted, the made up Biden crimes are more serious than the real Clinton crime was, but man oh man are they out on a limb on this one.

(At least they have some SA posters on their side! :v:)

If they start the actual impeachment process, the normal media can't really avoid talking about it. They don't need any help getting the right-wing media to motivate their base, but they can't win a nationwide general election with just their hardcore base alone. They need to break out of the right-wing media ecosystem and reach people who don't watch Fox News all day, but they have limited room to do so because the hardcore base won't let them moderate their message and the normal media is sick of their bullshit.

If they can get CNN reporters to put the phrases "President Biden" and "corruption allegations" in the same sentence enough times, that's probably a success for them.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

DeSantis is having the first debate of the 2024 primary field... against California Governor Gavin Newsom.

This is kind of sad in a way, but I honestly have to give DeSantis credit for accepting the challenge. He loses some points for saying he won't debate unless it is on Fox News and moderated by Sean Hannity, though.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1689350956650016768

He's in no position to avoid it. His campaign's in a dire state, and his only chance of regaining his credibility as a contender is to make some big move like this. Even if it fails, it's not like his position can get much worse.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



I don’t think I’ve seen someone who so desperately wants to be President more than Gavin Newsom

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

FlamingLiberal posted:

I don’t think I’ve seen someone who so desperately wants to be President more than Gavin Newsom

I weirdly admire it in a way. He's incredibly blatant about it and says, "I'm not running this year, but do I want to be President? Doesn't everyone in politics?"

Whereas everyone else says they don't want to, but are being forced to run by the calls of the nation or they are just waiting for God to give them the green light to start a campaign.

It also results in him pursuing good policy sometimes because he is chasing the Democratic activist base.

The biggest downside (and this is somewhat unfair, but it's politics) to his schtick is his looks and voice. He absolutely looks like a used car salesman and I envision with perfect clarity him saying, "What's it going to take to get you in this Toyota Corolla today?" and it reinforces the perception of him desperately trying to sell you himself.

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

quote:

Peter Thiel, the billionaire tech entrepreneur and benefactor of right-wing causes, opened last year’s National Conservatism Conference in Miami with a dense slideshow presentation during which he argued that regardless of whom Democrats nominate for president, their model for governance will mirror the social and economic policies of California.
Motherfucker, you live in California! And recently said to the press that you weren't moving to Florida because California's biggest problem, housing, is now a gigantic problem there as well! (Bloomberg)

Main Paineframe posted:

If they can get CNN reporters to put the phrases "President Biden" and "corruption allegations" in the same sentence enough times, that's probably a success for them.
Maybe. But I don't know, I never got the sense that the Trump impeachment helped Democrats all that much, and I don't know if this one would do much more. If anything it's less effective now that it's easier, with three impeachments in six years, for an uninformed voter to just dismiss it as DC bullshit.

Trump isn't going to look good to anybody who isn't getting their news from an explicitly pro-Trump media outlet, and how many of those people aren't already voting for Trump? (Only half-rhetorical, I actually do wonder. I could imagine 20-30% of Fox News viewers being marginal voters or non-voters, and 10% somehow voting for Democrats. But that's the "softest" RWM there is, aybody reading Brietbart or listening to Hannity or poo poo like that is 100% in the bag already. There's a lot of gettable Rogan listeners but I doubt he's going to be carrying Trump's water on this poo poo.)

Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Aug 10, 2023

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Mellow Seas posted:

Motherfucker, you live in California! And recently said to the press that you weren't moving to Florida because California's biggest problem, housing, is now a gigantic problem there as well! (Bloomberg)

Maybe. But I don't know, I never got the sense that the Trump impeachment helped Democrats all that much, and I don't know if this one would do much more. If anything it's less effective now that it's easier, with three impeachments in six years, for an uninformed voter to just dismiss it as DC bullshit.

I can remember from the '16 cycle that whoever was getting the most coverage in the news, HRC or Trump, would see the biggest hit to their approval ratings. There wasn't anything to the emails poo poo either but the constant drip-drip-drip of news stories kept reinforcing the idea that she was crooked.

Now, they had the advantage of 30 years of creating this idea of Clinton corruption through the right wing media, so it found fertile ground in which to grow. I'm skeptical that it will work the same way with Biden.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The biggest downside (and this is somewhat unfair, but it's politics) to his schtick is his looks and voice. He absolutely looks like a used car salesman and I envision with perfect clarity him saying, "What's it going to take to get you in this Toyota Corolla today?" and it reinforces the perception of him desperately trying to sell you himself.

Yeah maybe, but that pales in comparison to all the strange and insane Republican characters he'll face as his opponents.

Charlie Crist made DeSantis look like a fool and Newsom is far more competent and has much better political instincts.

I don't think DeSantis has it in him to put up a decent fight, he only does good in his own bubble and with no one to fight back.

edit: especially considering how well Newsom's interview with Sean Hannity went.

Mustang fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Aug 10, 2023

ryde
Sep 9, 2011

God I love young girls

Main Paineframe posted:


If they can get CNN reporters to put the phrases "President Biden" and "corruption allegations" in the same sentence enough times, that's probably a success for them.


Yeah it *is* worrisome. Everyone here knows that the charges are bullshit but everyone here also knew the Hillary charges were bullshit and they still hurt her.

Mellow Seas posted:

Maybe. But I don't know, I never got the sense that the Trump impeachment helped Democrats all that much, and I don't know if this one would do much more. If anything it's less effective now that it's easier, with three impeachments in six years, for an uninformed voter to just dismiss it as DC bullshit.

I certainly hope so, but my impressions have always been that accusations never hurt Republicans but do tend to hurt Democrats.

ryde fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Aug 10, 2023

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
I also thought it was funny/weirdly admirable in a dumb way when Romney was running in 2012, and people kept asking him why he was a pro-choice moderate in the 90's and now he was the most conservative to ever conservate in history, and he just went with, "Because I was running in Massachusetts back then, duh." when he realized that no other answer would work.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1689696786380734464

DoJ seeking a prompt and speedy trial. This would dispose of the issue well in advance of the election, so you can be sure that the Trump defense is going to try to delay it as long as possible.

Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos

zoux posted:

That dude was so blantant it's almost like he was trying to commit suicide by fed.

And indeed, because of the blatancy I have seen people claim that the Feds faked those posts and then killed him. Nobody really acts like that; it's a false flag, a plant to 'prove' conservatives are deranged.

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

I also thought it was funny/weirdly admirable in a dumb way when Romney was running in 2012, and people kept asking him why he was a pro-choice moderate in the 90's and now he was the most conservative to ever conservate in history, and he just went with, "Because I was running in Massachusetts back then, duh." when he realized that no other answer would work.
It's actually not a ridiculous answer in theory, "I tailor my policies to my constituents rather than following my personal preference at all times" should be a normal thing for a government representative to say. Doesn't play in our political environment, obviously.

Levitate
Sep 30, 2005

randy newman voice

YOU'VE GOT A LAFRENIÈRE IN ME
I guess you can impeach a president for whatever you want really but impeaching Biden for things his kid did half a decade before biden became president (even if he was VP then) is incredibly drat weak it's pathetic and transparent attempt to create some false equivalency

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1689398765596160000

Voters are such loving dipshits. Why would you assume that this was not going to happen when it has been the stated #1 goal of conservatives for decades

Levitate
Sep 30, 2005

randy newman voice

YOU'VE GOT A LAFRENIÈRE IN ME

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1689398765596160000

Voters are such loving dipshits. Why would you assume that this was not going to happen when it has been the stated #1 goal of conservatives for decades

I don't know how common the sentiment was among regular people but in places like here people kept saying "conservatives will never actually kill off RvW because it's such a good issue to use to whip up their base and get them to turnout!"

And...they were right that it ultimately wasn't a good move but that didn't stop the GOP from doing it.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
Rapper Tory Lanez was recently sentenced to 10 years in prison for shooting his girlfriend at the time, fellow rapper Megan Thee Stallion, in the feet multiple times during an argument.

Rapper and musician Iggy Azalia sent a letter to the court - that she did not realize could be made public - asking the judge to throw out the jury's conviction or be lenient in his sentencing. She publicly said she was not supporting him and was glad that he was in jail, but her letter was fairly extreme and effusive in her defense of Lanez and claimed that she could guarantee that he would never hurt a woman.

She also wrote to the judge, “In short, like yourself, I’m great at what I do and I’m well respected by my peers,” and said that he would disgrace himself if he put someone with the soul of Tory Lanez in jail. She also explained that as a woman in the music industry, she has had to face sexism throughout her entire career and Megan Thee Stallion was ruining it for other women in the music industry by blowing this out of proportion to ruin an innocent man.

The whole letter is pasted at the bottom of the post after the article and it is pretty wild and unhinged.

https://twitter.com/meghanncuniff/status/1689481708582875136

quote:

Iggy Azalea to Tory Lanez's sentencing judge: 'I would not write to you on behalf of an abuser'

The quotes in this article are taken verbatim from the letter, including misspellings, punctuation errors and typos.

Rapper Iggy Azalea told the judge who sentenced Tory Lanez for shooting Megan Thee Stallion that he’s not an abuser and “any leniency you may afford him would be something you could be proud of.”

“I deeply appreciate the person he is and have never witnessed him loose [sp] his temper or raise his voice at a woman,” Azalea wrote. “He’s always been incredibly respectful of me and I refuse to believe that he would do anything in malice especially to a woman.”

She described herself as a “victim of abuse myself” in her three-page, typed letter.

“I must make note of the things ive suffered through so that you understand definitively: I would not write to you on behalf of an abuser,” wrote the 33-year-old Australian, whose songs include the 2014 smash “Fancy.”

Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge David Herriford referenced Azalea’s Feb. 22 letter and the 75 others submitted for Lanez during the two-day hearing that concluded Tuesday afternoon with Lanez being sentenced to 10 years in prison for shooting rapper Megan Thee Stallion in the feet and injuring her on July 12, 2020.

Herriford said Lanez’s harassment of Megan, including online and through his music, was a “a major factor in aggravation in this case.”

At the beginning of the hearing on Monday, the judge briefly described each letter submitted for Lanez and identified the author. With Azaleas’, he mentioned only that she described Lanez as a talented songwriter and asked for a sentence that’s transformational and not life destroying.

As word spread of her letter, Azalea posted online that she was told her words would only be seen by the judge. She said she “never intended to publicly comment.”

“I don’t ‘support’ anyone. the whole thing is full of oddities,” she said in the post on X, formerly known as Twitter. “My letter never mentioned anything in regard to what happened that night.”

Legal Affairs and Trials with Meghann Cuniff obtained a copy of Azalea’s letter on Wednesday. In it, Azalea told Judge Herriford of Lanez, “I have remained in close contact with him during incarceration and I am confident he has already gained positive insight in regard to this experience.” She said she spoke with Lanez “last week,” which, based on the Feb. 22 date on the letter, would have been the week of Feb. 12 through Feb. 18.

Lanez “told me he’s glad God put him in jail,” Azalea wrote.

“He said this is an opportunity to humble himself and soften his heart - ironic to hear one of the kindest people I know strive to become even kinder,” she continued. “I’m not shocked - Its who he is. Watering and shining light on others until something beautiful grows.”

Using Lanez’s legal name, Azalea wrote, “Daystar Peterson is not the pest you’ve heard about, he’s a gardener. He helps others bloom.”

Should Lanez not be deported to his native Canada after he serves his sentence, Azalea told the judge, “I would employ him without hesitation as an executive producer on my next album.”

“In fact - I already hired him for the job prior to his conviction! I guarantee to you he has significant income and work awaiting him upon release if you would kindly consider a sentence that does not require deportation,” Azalea wrote.

She called Lanez “far from your average entitled rap star” and that he’s “been helping me from the moment I met him” in a recording studio in 2018.

“Although he was writing music for another artist, he took the initiative to come to my room in his break time and play song ideas he’d written for me too,” Azalea wrote. “This resonated with me because it’s highly unusual for someone who’s already very successful to want to help others. Music is competitive in that way,” she said.

Azalea said she understands Lanez to be “genuinely passionate about helping others.”

“He will go out of his way to help someone he sees even glimmer of greatness inside. Although he’s an incredible songwriter, it’s my belief this is his true gift,” she wrote. “Seeing what could be and becoming the driving force to make it happen.”

Azalea said she hired six of Lanez’s employees “not only because they are great hardworking people, but so that they remain in a position to transition back into running his business when he’s completed his sentence.”

“Im doing all I can to make sure he’s in a position to come home and get back to work,” she wrote.

Azalea said the music business “is not designed to empower Artists - especially not women.”

“You learn to expect misogyny at every turn, no matter how much you’ve personally achieved,” Azalea said. “Sadly I’ve spent my entire career battling sexism and bad behavior behind the curtains.”

She said her past abuse is why “I felt it very imperative I share my viewpoint as a woman in music: in regard to Daystar Peterson.”

Azalea never mentioned Megan or Lanez’s felony convictions for first-degree assault with a firearm, negligent discharge of a firearm and possession of a concealed and unregistered firearm inside a vehicle.

But she described Lanez as “the last person to loose [sp] his cool” and says she’s seen him “defuse so many sticky situations with kindness and humor.”

“I’ve never encountered this jealous, rage filled person he’s accused of being,” she wrote. “I know him to be someone who’s always bursting with happiness. In the moments you want to cry, if you call daystar, he will find a way to make you laugh.”

She also implies the jury got it wrong, first telling Herriford she was “elated when I saw your name in relation to this trial because you have a reputation of being a very fair judge.”

“In fact its one of the reasons I was a sadnned [s]) Daystar had subpar legal counsel and did not take the stand at his own trial,” she wrote. “We’ve all been frozen in fear before. The unfortunate side effect of his choice is he’s been painted in the most unrecognizable way: to you, the jury and the public.”

“I hope you’ll consider a sentence that allows for this to be transformational and not life destroying. Not only for Daystar - but for his family, son and the countless others who depend on him & are committed to helping him reach his full potential,” Azalea wrote.

Azalea did not explain how she knew of Herriford, a former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney who was appointed to the bench by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger in 2010.

“I believe in justice and I know you do too. You’ve dedicated your life’s work to it and I respect that deeply. Thats why im taking my time to do this, because I know the person you are understands in order to truly conclude what a fair sentence is, You need better understanding of who the person you’re sentencing IS at their core.” ” Azalea wrote.

Azalea introduced herself as “a successful musician for the last decade” and said she’s sold “over 65 million records throughout my career, had number 1 hits on the billboard hot 100 and broken records previously held by ‘The Beatles’.”

“My music has been nominated for 6 Grammys and I have a multitude of other musical awards. Throughout my career I’ve toured with some of the biggest acts in music: from Beyonce to Pitbull. I’ve also collaborated withe everyone from Britney Spears to Jenifer Lopez,” Azalea said. “In short, like yourself, I’m great at what I do and I’m well respected by my peers.”


Azalia's full letter here:

quote:

Dear Honorable Judge Herriford,

I'm writing to you in regards to a case in your court.

My name is Iggy Azalea and I've been a successful musician for the last decade.

Ive sold over 65 million records throughout my career, had number 1 hits on the billboard hot 100 and broken records previously held by 'The Beatles'.

My music has been nominated for 6 Grammys and I have a multitude of other musical awards.

Throughout my career I've toured with some of the biggest acts in music: from Beyonce to Pitbull.
Ive also collaborated with everyone from Britney Spears to Jenifer Lopez. In short, like yourself, I'm great at what I do and I'm well respected by my peers.

Becoming successful is incredibly hard to do and maintaining success is even harder.

The music industry is not designed to empower Artists - especially not women.

You learn to expect misogyny at every turn, no matter how much you've personally achived.

Sadly I've spent my entire career battling sexism and bad behavior behind the curtains.

One unfortunate consequence of that is I am victim of abuse myself.

I must make note of the things ive suffered through so that you understand definitively:
I would not write to you on behalf of an abuser.

In fact, its the very reason I felt it imperative I share my viewpoint as a woman in music: in regard to Daystar Peterson.

You are presiding over his case and It would mean a great deal to me if you'd please let me share with you why "Tory Lanez" is far from your average entitled rap star.

I believe in justice and I know you do too. You've dedicated your life's work to it and I respect that deeply.

Thats why im taking my time to do this, because I know the person you are understands in order to truly conclude what a fair sentence is, You need better understanding of who the person you're sentencing IS at their core.

Judge Herriford, I was elated when I saw your name in relation to this trial because you have a reputation of being a very fair judge.

In fact its one of the reasons I was sadnned Daystar had subpar legal counsel and did not take the stand at his own trial.

We've all been frozen in fear before. The unfortunate side effect of his choice is he's been painted in the most unrecognizable way: to you, the jury and the public.

Daystar Peterson is not the pest you've heard about, he's a gardener. He helps others bloom. Any leniency you may afford him would be something you could be proud of.

You see, daystar has been helping me from the moment I met him. Our paths crossed in 2018 while working in the same recording studio. Although he was writing music for another artist, he took the initiative to come to my room in his break time and play song ideas he'd written for me too.

This resonated with me because it's highly unusual for someone who's already very successful to want to help others.

Music is competitive in that way.

We've remained friends since and what I've come to understand about Daystar is: he's genuinely passionate about helping others. He will go out of his way to help someone he sees even a glimmer of greatness inside.

Although he's an incredible songwriter, it's my belief this is his true gift.

Seeing what could be, and becoming the driving force to make it happen.

He battled and overcame some incredible odds on his pathway to success, in many ways he's still battling now.

I think that's one of the reasons he always fights hard to elevate others.

One of my favorite examples of this is the story of how he came to hire his personal assistant; Mario.

Daystar was stopped at a red-light with his window down when a guy in his early twenties yelled from the sidewalk:

"Im chasing a dream too and ill do anything to work with you! Im working for postmates! Please let me give you my resume."

Shockingly Daystar took his number, called the next day and interviewed him for a job.

He wasn't in need of another employee. Still he created an internship and later a full time job for Mario. Ive seen him silently help people empower themselves in this way time and time again.

He creates space for others to be great.

I deeply appreciate the person he is and have never witnessed him loose his temper or raise his voice at a woman.

He's always been incredibly respectful of me and I refuse to believe that he would do anything in malice especially to a woman.

Ive witnessed him defuse so many sticky situations with kindness and humor, he is the last person to loose his cool.

I've never encountered this jealous, rage filled person he's accused of being. I know him to be someone who's always bursting with happiness. In the moments you want to cry, if you call daystar, he will find a way to make you laugh.

Since Daystar remains in jail, many of his employees are left without work. I took it upon myself to hire six of his staff members, full time.

I did this not only because they are great hardworking people, but so that they remain in a position to transition back into running his business when he's completed his sentence. Im doing all I can to make sure he's in a position to come home and get back to work.

I hope that you'll consider a sentence that allows for this to be transformational and not life destroying. Not only for Daystar - but for his family, son and the countless others who depend on him & are committed to helping him reach his full potential.

If daystar is able to remain in the United States after he has served his time, I would employ him without hesitation as an executive producer on my next album.
In fact - I already hired him for the job prior to his conviction!

I guarantee to you he has significant income and work awaiting him upon release if you would kindly consider a sentence that does not require deportation.

I have remained in close contact with him during his incarceration and I am confident he has already gained positive insight in regard to this experience. He leads a prayer circle nightly and is already empowering others during his time in Jail.

In fact when we spoke last week, told me he's glad God put him in jail. He said this is an opportunity to humble himself and soften his heart - ironic to hear one of the kindest people I know strive to become even kinder.

Im not shocked - Its who he is!

Watering and shinning light on others until something beautiful grows.

Thank you for taking the time to hear what I have to say in relation to Daystars character.

Kind regards,

Iggy Azalea.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Aug 10, 2023

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
The new House Republican Oversight Committee memo on impeachment, where they quietly edited out their claims they have been making for the past two years about Biden being directly paid by China/Russia/Kazakhstan, actually got some pushback on Fox News because of how blatant it was.

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1689707334279319552

Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Levitate posted:

I don't know how common the sentiment was among regular people but in places like here people kept saying "conservatives will never actually kill off RvW because it's such a good issue to use to whip up their base and get them to turnout!"

And...they were right that it ultimately wasn't a good move but that didn't stop the GOP from doing it.

It’s possible that it was another unwinnable situation for them. I mean, if you’ve spent 50 years saying “we just need to control the Supreme Court,” and then you do, and you don’t do the thing, why should the anti-abortion people keep voting for you? At that point you’ve openly demonstrated you weren’t serious about it.

Beastie
Nov 3, 2006

They used to call me tricky-kid, I lived the life they wish they did.


Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Rapper Tory Lanez was recently sentenced to 10 years in prison for shooting his girlfriend at the time, fellow rapper Megan Thee Stallion, in the feet multiple times during an argument.

Rapper and musician Iggy Azalia sent a letter to the court - that she did not realize could be made public - asking the judge to throw out the jury's conviction or be lenient in his sentencing. She publicly said she was not supporting him and was glad that he was in jail, but her letter was fairly extreme and effusive in her defense of Lanez and claimed that she could guarantee that he would never hurt a woman.

She also wrote to the judge, “In short, like yourself, I’m great at what I do and I’m well respected by my peers,” and said that he would disgrace himself if he put someone with the soul of Tory Lanez in jail. She also explained that as a woman in the music industry, she has had to face sexism throughout her entire career and Megan Thee Stallion was ruining it for other women in the music industry by blowing this out of proportion to ruin an innocent man.

The whole letter is pasted at the bottom of the post after the article and it is pretty wild and unhinged.

https://twitter.com/meghanncuniff/status/1689481708582875136

Azalia's full letter here:

Now do Lil Tay

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011



Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

DeSantis is having the first debate of the 2024 primary field... against California Governor Gavin Newsom.

This is kind of sad in a way, but I honestly have to give DeSantis credit for accepting the challenge. He loses some points for saying he won't debate unless it is on Fox News and moderated by Sean Hannity, though.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1689350956650016768

The part that has me scratching my head on this is that DESANTIS wants Sean "Trump is my lord and saviour" Hannity to moderate? I'm honestly not sure which one Sean would be harsher on.

"Governor Newsom, why is your state a crime-ridden shithole that is a blemish on everything good and pure in the United States, and that drives good and honest Christians away? And Governor DeSantis, what's it like being a scum-sucking traitorous snake who dares to go against everything pure and good President Trump stands for, and is deserving of nothing less than execution by being drawn and quartered for going against his will?"

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

Beastie posted:

Now do Lil Tay

That one legitimately confuses me. I had not heard of her until today.

Apparently, her social media was hacked to say she died and Variety and the Hollywood Reporter spoke to her management who confirmed that she died, but then she came out and said she was alive?

And she is famous for being a little Canadian white girl who is a very profane 14-year old rapper, I guess? Somehow, her management either thought she was really dead or someone pranked Variety and The Hollywood Reporter. Also, why does someone want to fake the death of 14-year old Canadian rapper?

Beastie
Nov 3, 2006

They used to call me tricky-kid, I lived the life they wish they did.


Yeah I'm not trying to be a dick I genuinely had no idea what was going on with Txitter and every DRAMA account rushing to post 1,000,000 things

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

That one legitimately confuses me. I had not heard of her until today.

Apparently, her social media was hacked to say she died and Variety and the Hollywood Reporter spoke to her management who confirmed that she died, but then she came out and said she was alive?

And she is famous for being a little Canadian white girl who is a very profane 14-year old rapper, I guess? Somehow, her management either thought she was really dead or someone pranked Variety and The Hollywood Reporter. Also, why does someone want to fake the death of 14-year old Canadian rapper?

This Cut article should have you covered

Enver Zogha
Nov 12, 2008

The modern revisionists and reactionaries call us Stalinists, thinking that they insult us and, in fact, that is what they have in mind. But, on the contrary, they glorify us with this epithet; it is an honor for us to be Stalinists.

Levitate posted:

I don't know how common the sentiment was among regular people but in places like here people kept saying "conservatives will never actually kill off RvW because it's such a good issue to use to whip up their base and get them to turnout!"

And...they were right that it ultimately wasn't a good move but that didn't stop the GOP from doing it.
Another factor is that in 2016 there was this notion that the GOP was becoming "more moderate" with the rise of Trump. This was a guy who in 1999 had publicly left the Republican Party after calling it "too crazy right," and whom Cruz tried to discredit in the primaries by accusing him of adhering to "New York values" (i.e. that Trump doesn't care about abortion, same-sex marriage, and other things a God-fearing conservative is supposed to loathe.)

Of course already during that year Trump was winning over the vast majority of Evangelicals as God's imperfect vessel for enacting and/or maintaining reactionary social policies, but there are tons of voters who have a fantasy version of the Republican Party in their heads that is forever becoming more "reasonable" whereas many of them will claim Democrats have become "far-left."

Enver Zogha fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Aug 10, 2023

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

I can remember watching a hearing for the state's heartbeat bill, and NARAL and the others didn't bother to show up because what's the point, but who did show up were a bunch of abolitionists who were against the bill because they wanted Texas to send a full ban to SCOTUS (where it would get in line behind like 15 other state bills) rather than the "milquetoast" solution of a six week ban. In among these hooting morons was a quiet, old guy, a guy whose been working on the political side of the pro-life movement, and he urged lawmakers to be extremely cautious in their approach because if they moved too far too fast, then instead of banning abortion it would become permanent and indelible, either through statute or amendment.

Every election post the Dobbs decision has borne that out, and I think that there's a very good possibility of a massive GOP loss in '24, with tons of voters motivated both by reproductive rights and animus towards Trump.

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Tatsuta Age
Apr 21, 2005

so good at being in trouble



some women really hate other women, huh

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