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Prokhor Zakharov posted:ok so this is the art in question: The gritty and disturbing imagery of... Richard Diebenkorn?  Art critic Michael Kimmelman described Diebenkorn as "one of the premier American painters of the postwar era, whose deeply lyrical abstractions evoked the shimmering light and wide-open spaces of California, where he spent virtually his entire life." Has it been long enough that expressionism is now considered strange and mysterious?
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Aug 12, 2023 21:49
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Bottom Liner posted:I wouldn't consider him an Anime artist, but when you put it like that... It's more like cape comics, really
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Aug 12, 2023 21:50
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theironjef posted:I don't think I'm moving goalposts since I retained my assertion that he almost universally draws only babes and cheesecake poses for women. One monster that is still drawn sexy and a few folks that are wearing robes aren't the same as what he's willing to draw of male figures. I think getting drawn into an argument about individual pieces would lead to goalpost moving because each one is its own subjective argument. Easier to say "Foglio will never draw a female version of Goblin King" and to me, feminism includes fat women, not just sexy ones and ones that are probably sexy but they're wearing enough wizard robes for argumentative plausible deniability. Here. The two non dragon characters here are women. This is from ten days ago. https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20230731
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Aug 12, 2023 22:29
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theironjef posted:"Some of the androgynous ones might be female" is a pretty piss poor defense, and the Psychic Network lady on the top left is doing a back arch style Playboy pose. I mean, I don't even care that much about Foglio, Girl Genius sucks because it's been spinning wheels for decades, not because it's too cheesecake, but the notion that this guy draws women with anything resembling the same toolkit and respect he has for men is nuts. His default woman pose is "aim those titties skyward." Also I don't know why Pixar is brought up (honestly I assume you mean Disney, since the "faces are all the same" thing is usually levied at Elsa and Rapunzel, who are Disney characters), but sure, throw them on the pile. All I've ever really tried to say here is that it's a weird thing we see repeated that these guys are great artists with sex positive feminist leanings, and their output is near-always babes with little or no variation beyond hair color. Eh, the woman on the top left of Psychic Network looks more like "bored/relaxing officeworker" than "sexy arched playboy" pose.i honestly think you're reading way too much and way too far out of context to justify your anger.  Oh poo poo! Look at all these people doing back arch playboy poses. And speaking of androgynous characters, the wizard in the middle looks like they could be either gender.
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Aug 12, 2023 22:38
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This discussion is great; not awful and tedious at all
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Aug 12, 2023 22:40
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it's epic. i love analyzing the posture of women to see how seductive they're being. maybe someone could bring up anime again too
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Aug 12, 2023 22:42
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I think it’s been fairly well demonstrated at this point that it’s unfair to call Phil Foglio a sex creep, he’s merely a sex-adjacent creep.
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Aug 12, 2023 22:52
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Then someone should post a more interesting topic. Quick, someone mention 4e!
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Aug 12, 2023 22:58
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dwarf74 posted:Then someone should post a more interesting topic. I can't believe they removed the dual lands.
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Aug 12, 2023 22:59
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Arivia posted:I can't believe they removed the dual lands. I had a complete set of dual lands, 4 of each, mostly Revised, back in the 90's. When MtG was at its nadir and I was sure it was just about dead, I sold off all my cards for a song. So yeah. Regrets.
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Aug 12, 2023 23:05
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you're right, maybe we could have a discussion about the mtg reserved list
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Aug 12, 2023 23:07
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Feels Villeneuve posted:you're right, maybe we could have a discussion about the mtg reserved list look i got asked to post about fourth edition, i posted about fourth edition. whadda ya want, gabbagool
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Aug 12, 2023 23:08
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look I'm the one who accidentally started this by saying I liked the varied artstyle of old MTG cards so it's at least kind of related
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Aug 12, 2023 23:09
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dwarf74 posted:Then someone should post a more interesting topic. Ratcatcher got nerfed 
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Aug 12, 2023 23:13
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ohhyeah posted:Woof this one must be out of print because it starts at $259 used on Amazon. I’ll start with his blog though thanks! Yeah, it's very annoying. I was able to get his later two volumes, The Elusive Shift and Game Wizards, but no such luck with Playing At The World, and I don't know if it makes sense to start reading those volumes first... Absurd Alhazred posted:The Elusive Shift is masterful and in some ways depressing (did you know that all the arguments people are having about RPGs now were pretty much done and done and redone in zines in the 70s?), The Game Wizards is pretty interesting in dispelling a lot of myths about the Gygax era at TSR (he was an rear end in a top hat and everything people say that Lorraine Williams did was done by him as well), but Playing at the World just has an immense sense of scope that they don't. Shucks.
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Aug 12, 2023 23:14
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I mean, it's not "WotC does dumb poo poo" or "indie RPG auteur is a milkshake duck", so we probably don't care, but watching noted tabletop company Ravensburger launch a CCG for the first time with arguably the most in demand IP has been a trip.
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Aug 12, 2023 23:27
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How much of that demand is like, finance people because Disney is clearly more "serious" than whatever the gently caress MetaZoo was but some of the prices seem completely nuts
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Aug 12, 2023 23:29
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dwarf74 posted:Then someone should post a more interesting topic. I just randomly saw a video of Ron Edwards on YouTube where he said the two editions of D&D he liked were Homes basic and 4e. I didn’t even know he was still in the industry.
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Aug 13, 2023 00:01
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TCGs exist in a very strange space at this point in time. Nobody can operate without the gorilla in the room that is the history of the big 3 of Magic, Pokemon, and to an extent Yu-Gi-Oh. Everybody knows that if a trading card game has legs there will be iconic rare collector's pieces that rise to the forefront over time, so you can't avoid the desperate scramble to be in on the ground floor. If you're snapping up every product you're bound to find the next Black Lotus or shadowless Charizard. Or, pretty frequently recently, they're just trying to actively will/brute force that collectability into reality. The collectable bubble driven by covid and our hosed socioeconomic situation combined with the release of a lot of new games rapid fire feels like it has made everything a huge mess. There are alternative card games that are thriving at this specific moment, but it all feels really fairweather. In turn it also feels bad when you just want to play the games and see the good ones thrive and have healthy communities. Companies can't resist leaning into all of this; Again, it's not like you can just un-know the past of TCG collectables. The whales exist and the creators want their legal grift as much as the consumers. The bubble has deflated a lot relative to a year or two ago, but I'd still have to imagine we'll see a full on pop within the next few years which will possibly determine if any of the extremely contemporary games have what it takes to survive it.
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Aug 13, 2023 00:13
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Gumdrop Larry posted:TCGs exist in a very strange space at this point in time. Nobody can operate without the gorilla in the room that is the history of the big 3 of Magic, Pokemon, and to an extent Yu-Gi-Oh. Everybody knows that if a trading card game has legs there will be iconic rare collector's pieces that rise to the forefront over time, so you can't avoid the desperate scramble to be in on the ground floor. If you're snapping up every product you're bound to find the next Black Lotus or shadowless Charizard. Or, pretty frequently recently, they're just trying to actively will/brute force that collectability into reality. The collectable bubble driven by covid and our hosed socioeconomic situation combined with the release of a lot of new games rapid fire feels like it has made everything a huge mess. There are alternative card games that are thriving at this specific moment, but it all feels really fairweather. In turn it also feels bad when you just want to play the games and see the good ones thrive and have healthy communities. Companies can't resist leaning into all of this; Again, it's not like you can just un-know the past of TCG collectables. The whales exist and the creators want their legal grift as much as the consumers. The greatest tragedy of card games is that the Living Card Game model didn't take off, because paying a flat cost for a new set was pretty great.
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Aug 13, 2023 00:14
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neonchameleon posted:I don't think you are right there. Definitely if you tell him to draw a card centering a female character with limited art direction he is probably going to make them a babe unless there is a good reason not to. How much of this is him, and how much is his knowing the audience and what sells is an open question. Also if you ask for a comic character he will default to male. But I wouldn't exactly describe the women of prosperity and Psychic Network as babes even if they are curvy; the scene indicates that they shouldn't be babes so they aren't. And you were looking at the cyclops in Unlikely Alliance rather than the monster woman with offset eyes back and to the left. And there are also a few androgenous cases in there who may be female.
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Aug 13, 2023 00:46
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Splicer posted:The psychic network ladies both have huge honkers and prosperity contains a naked fairy in the doggy style position. Psychic Network also has some kind of Penthouse scenario going on with the blue hat person top right.
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Aug 13, 2023 00:51
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YggdrasilTM posted:Here. The two non dragon characters here are women. This is from ten days ago. E: lol I was looking for something else but got distracted by vagina bones Splicer fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 00:52
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Feels Villeneuve posted:How much of that demand is like, finance people because Disney is clearly more "serious" than whatever the gently caress MetaZoo was but some of the prices seem completely nuts A lot of the TCG players I know are excited because it's something approachable that they can get their partners/kids/etc. into that's not Pokemon. Hell, my wife is fiending for it in spite of basically zero interest in TCGs otherwise specifically because it's Disney. Part of the issue is that there's no actual wide-scale release of the product yet, so anything is obviously going to be artificially inflated to the loving moon because your options to this point were, what, Gencon and some one-off events at parks? A lot of it is going to come down to how committed Ravensburger is to printing to demand. My LGS has admitted that they're only getting like 20-30% of what they wanted and a lot of people on the waiting list are not getting product day one. Ravensburger has to basically ramp production up as hard as they can or genuine player interest is going to get squelched by scalper finance shitters. (I also respect my LGS for not gouging. Prices are like 10-12% over MSRP, versus what I've seen from others where we're talking 300 for a booster box that has a MSRP of 144.)
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Aug 13, 2023 00:55
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Yep, that blonde lady in the red capelet sure is an example of a stacked babe in a penthouse pose. Sure is. Foglio is literally incapable of drawing anything else according to the seething mob, after all. As a reminder, this is the source of the argument: theironjef posted:He can draw male characters as sexy dudes, battlin' thugs, fat goblins, pink elephant monsters, horrific mutants, bees, whatever. The female characters? All babes, like the closest you see to a monster woman is the cyclops and boy does he ever lean in on the bejeweled lingerie in that case. This is exactly the point I was making, he's just another expression of the Oglaf gender dimorphism thing. Would it kill him to draw a woman character as a lumpy wizard or muscled goon or whatever? I posit that it might. One example is all that's needed to show that yes, Foglio can, in fact, draw "non-babe" women. The discussion wasn't about how often he does it, it was someone saying he's incapable of it to the point of "it might kill him". As mentioned, he gets paid to draw cheesecake, so he mostly draws cheesecake. I know that's a strange and frightening concept to people, worthy of internet sneers and self-righteousness, but it's not that complicated. Zurai fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 00:55
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Yeah, it's very annoying. I was able to get his later two volumes, The Elusive Shift and Game Wizards, but no such luck with Playing At The World, and I don't know if it makes sense to start reading those volumes first... I don't think you have to read PatW first. They're both approachable on their own merits. DalaranJ posted:I just randomly saw a video of Ron Edwards on YouTube where he said the two editions of D&D he liked were Homes basic and 4e. I didn’t even know he was still in the industry. I'm not sure if it's right to say that he is still in the industry. He runs a blog/seminar/consultancy in Sweden, which sort of doubles as a web store where you can still buy his games. His recent videos are interesting and occasionally weird. He clearly was bad at explaining himself in writing at the Forge but refuses to admit this or take any responsibility for how things went down there.
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Aug 13, 2023 01:21
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Zurai posted:Yep, that blonde lady in the red capelet sure is an example of a stacked babe in a penthouse pose. Sure is. Foglio is literally incapable of drawing anything else according to the seething mob, after all. Lumi is the youngest member of the party and her appearance varies depending on how much her youth and naivety is being played up. Here she is naively falling for this guy's talking to a dead guy shtick and as such is practically sexless. A few pages later she's being the voice of reason so her boob hiders retract and shrink to reassure you that yes, don't worry, there's a titties under there. Also enjoy the lovingly sculpted buttocks of her introductory scene, which vanish just before telling the story of how they met when she was 7. E: I'm pretty sure "The girl whose youth is emphasised by her having to take time off school to join the adventure isn't having her boobs prominently emphasised... sometimes" absolutely meets qualification as the exception that proves the rule So yeah he will draw non-hourglass women but only when it's somehow grosser than if she was just stacked as hell at all times like everyone else. Splicer fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 01:30
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Feels Villeneuve posted:How much of that demand is like, finance people because Disney is clearly more "serious" than whatever the gently caress MetaZoo was but some of the prices seem completely nuts Disney adults are absolutely bugnuts and eager to throw piles of money at anything Disney. I don't think it needs Rudy to built hype. Also, given that there is a real market for these its not like he can buy 100% of the wholesale market like with MetaZoo.
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Aug 13, 2023 02:19
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What's the Disney TCG about?
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Aug 13, 2023 02:46
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TG as an Industry: lovingly sculpted buttocks
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Aug 13, 2023 02:48
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*loads shotgun* i am sorry. these buttocks are too detailed. prepare to die
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Aug 13, 2023 02:49
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Splicer posted:Don't read this if you value your quaint innocence. I honestly find this post more offputting than any of the art for reasons I can't quite articulate.
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Aug 13, 2023 02:55
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Writing a Rorschach style journal entry logging your page-by-page read through of Girl Genius: A Gaslamp Fantasy Comic.
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Aug 13, 2023 03:07
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mycatscrimes posted:I honestly find this post more offputting than any of the art for reasons I can't quite articulate.
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Aug 13, 2023 03:08
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Splicer posted:I could, but you'd find it equally offputting. If it helps I did it deliberately. I'm sorry, that does not help. mycatscrimes fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 03:09
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mycatscrimes posted:That does not help.
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Aug 13, 2023 03:11
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Listen I hate women only being allowed to exist as fanservice as much as the next gal, but it definitely makes me feel more uncomfortable to be in spaces where people are purposefully being weird about discussing female characters to make some kind of point. You can just say you feel it's too sexualized, that's ok. The Folgio's aren't an example of that trend I find very offensive or creepy, personally, but it's correct that they overwhelmingly draw women as sexy. It's ok to say that. Being offputting on purpose doesn't make the conversation around it better.
mycatscrimes fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 03:16
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Nuns with Guns posted:What's the Disney TCG about? It seemed like a general Magic knock off: "Summon Disney IP to get into fights and score 20 imagination points to win."
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Aug 13, 2023 03:20
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mycatscrimes posted:Listen I hate women only being allowed to exist as fanservice as much as the next gal, but it definitely makes me feel more uncomfortable to be in spaces where people are purposefully being weird about discussing female characters to make some kind of point. You can just say you feel it's too sexualized, that's ok. The Folgio's aren't an example of that trend I find very offensive or creepy, personally, but it's correct that they overwhelmingly draw women as sexy. It's ok to say that. Being offputting on purpose doesn't make the conversation around it better. Splicer fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Aug 13, 2023 |
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Aug 13, 2023 03:30
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mycatscrimes posted:Listen I hate women only being allowed to exist as fanservice as much as the next gal, but it definitely makes me feel more uncomfortable to be in spaces where people are purposefully being weird about discussing female characters to make some kind of point. You can just say you feel it's too sexualized, that's ok. The Folgio's aren't an example of that trend I find very offensive or creepy, personally, but it's correct that they overwhelmingly draw women as sexy. It's ok to say that. Being offputting on purpose doesn't make the conversation around it better. Yeah, this whole conversation is uncomfortable and overwrought at this point. I'm way more interested in learning more about the card game or minis stuff that just came up. Capfalcon posted:It seemed like a general Magic knock off: "Summon Disney IP to get into fights and score 20 imagination points to win." Hum, well, there's no denying that's a system that can work well enough. And even if it doesn't, Disney fans definitely will scoop up all the cards if they have cool art of their favorite cartoon characters on them. I guess with their other crossover games being killed off and MtG still surging in popularity, Disney was going to try milling their IPs out there eventually.
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Aug 13, 2023 03:32
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