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That Works posted:This is too much like EvE multiboxing I'd been thinking more ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.
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Aug 15, 2023 04:25
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bulletsponge13 posted:I wonder what the rate of PTSD symptoms are between 'regular' drone operators and FPV operators. I would guess it's worse among 'regular'. FPV drones have shittier cameras and you necessarily don't see the aftermath, even if you can identify anything beyond "valid target" before it explodes. The observation operators have to see everything.
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Aug 15, 2023 04:48
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That Works posted:This is too much like EvE multiboxing "Did Eve Predict Modern Peer Warfare?" Read my new article on War on the Rocks.
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Aug 15, 2023 04:53
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When you compare the unit cost of an attack drone with the unit cost of a 155mm shell suddenly 'what if we just made a million of them?' becomes a very interesting question.
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Aug 15, 2023 07:45
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https://www.kyivpost.com/post/20576quote:According to reports, a tussle between two units fighting for Russia escalated from a knife brawl to a full-on shooting match with grenade launchers and automatic weapons. "Tussle" is a funny word for what starts with people trying to stab each other.
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Aug 15, 2023 11:46
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M_Gargantua posted:"Did Eve Predict Modern Peer Warfare?" Read my new article on War on the Rocks. both certainly attest to the power of spreadsheets
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Aug 15, 2023 12:04
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Herstory Begins Now posted:certainly the spreadsheet side of things War never changes, it was always spreadsheets
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Aug 15, 2023 12:06
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Xakura posted:War never changes, it was always spreadsheets It was clay tablets once.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:06
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The Lone Badger posted:It was clay tablets once. also strings 
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Aug 15, 2023 12:07
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Herstory Begins Now posted:also strings This is a Scandinavian metal band logo, right?
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Aug 15, 2023 12:46
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fartknocker posted:This is a Scandinavian metal band logo, right? In case you're not joking, that's a quipu, a recording system used by Andran cultures including the Inca.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:57
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Alchenar posted:When you compare the unit cost of an attack drone with the unit cost of a 155mm shell suddenly 'what if we just made a million of them?' becomes a very interesting question. Except that they are vastly different weapons with only minor overlapping capabilities. What you don’t see in YouTube videos is how artillery is used to shape the battlefield. A single gun line can have a dozen pre registered targets, miles apart, that all deny the enemy access to that space. Four howitzers can effortlessly scale volume and duration of fire to suit the needs of the mission (which again, is often reminding people that’s it’s a real bad idea to try going that direction). The need to arm and launch all of these drones by hand and everything being tied 1:1 drone:operator means scaling attacks is resource intensive and complicated. Maybe there is some tech I don’t know about that lets a single operator control a dozen or more of these that get held in a pattern near where the targets are and are handed off to another operator as needed?
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Aug 15, 2023 13:48
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Pretty sure we could put drones in a 155mm package. Its a terrible idea, but we could.
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Aug 15, 2023 13:58
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Hekk posted:The need to arm and launch all of these drones by hand and everything being tied 1:1 drone:operator means scaling attacks is resource intensive and complicated. Maybe there is some tech I don’t know about that lets a single operator control a dozen or more of these that get held in a pattern near where the targets are and are handed off to another operator as needed? Your main issue would seem to be having reliable communications with the drones. Satellites or nearby control centers will help. Hope Elon Musk approves of your operation! 
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Aug 15, 2023 14:11
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Nessus posted:I am no drone programmer but it seems straightforward to launch a gaggle of these (how do you do this? I dunno but launching ten or twenty at a time seems like a solvable issue) and either have the operator designate a waypoint for them to loiter around, presumably circling like birds, or else take control of one and have it designated as the 'lead' drone that others follow. Not much to crash into in the sky. Most fpv quads lack the hardware for independent flying (Barometer and gps) but that could certainly be added if there was a need. I'm very skeptical of doing terminal guidance over satellite, you need really fine and responsive controls to not just lose it.
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Aug 15, 2023 14:21
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Xakura posted:Most fpv quads lack the hardware for independent flying (Barometer and gps) but that could certainly be added if there was a need. I'm very skeptical of doing terminal guidance over satellite, you need really fine and responsive controls to not just lose it. I'd probably try to develop a drone to work as a relay, it could help with the FPV drones losing signal at the last seconds when they get close to ground.
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Aug 15, 2023 14:38
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True. Seems like you could designate a point and say “five of you hit that” and let the AI do the FSD thing.
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Aug 15, 2023 14:39
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Artillery shells are far easier to mass produce than drones, which (at least in their current form) rely on lithium batteries and would be highly susceptible to supply chain disruptions in a major war. And then there's the rapid-fire capabilities of artillery, which have already been pointed out. Maybe future technologies will let the drone operator pilot a swarm of drones together while someone shift-clicks targets on a screen or something, but today it's not possible to get the kind of massed-fires you do with artillery. psydude fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 14:45
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTifvVZBNWs The agility of these goddamn things is horrifying. A good pilot could put this into a bedroom window or moving car sunroof. Gets a tad trickier with more mass, but not a ton, those brushless motors are powerful. Edit: I had a ton of fun building these and flying them around but you're at the whim of your signal strength and loving oblivious to everything else when concentrating on flying it. I don't know how those pilots aren't making GBS threads their pants, losing all situational battlefield awareness 
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Aug 15, 2023 15:15
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Cannon_Fodder posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTifvVZBNWs Earlier in the war the Ukrainians released a short video of racing drones doing just that very thing, including flying into a TOC. I've seen some other FPS drone footage of them putting their payloads through open car windows. There was a propaganda/news piece (I don't know the veracity of it, but the way I saw both ends of the spectrum try and color it made me feel like it was straight propaganda of some sort) of them teaching school aged kids how to fly the various forms of drones including FPS, in school. War is scary now.
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Aug 15, 2023 15:54
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Cannon_Fodder posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTifvVZBNWs Having thought about this a bit in the past I came to the freaky conclusion that we now have a form of real-life Shadowrun deckers. They probably hole up somewhere not in the immediately-get-shot line, near some frendlies, do their remote drone pilot thing and if stuff back in the meat space reality start to go pear shaped someone yells at them to get the gently caress out of I still want my dragon president god dammit.
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Aug 15, 2023 16:17
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bulletsponge13 posted:Earlier in the war the Ukrainians released a short video of racing drones doing just that very thing, including flying into a TOC. I've seen some other FPS drone footage of them putting their payloads through open car windows. There was a propaganda/news piece (I don't know the veracity of it, but the way I saw both ends of the spectrum try and color it made me feel like it was straight propaganda of some sort) of them teaching school aged kids how to fly the various forms of drones including FPS, in school. Well there's this as far as actual policy: https://www.businessinsider.com/ukrainian-kids-learn-mine-safety-russian-children-learn-drones-guns-2023-8 But certainly learning or teaching about drones and drone racing in 2023 Ukraine carries a certain understanding around it (plainly stated or otherwise) I also got a chuckle over the last ~page of the thread highlighting how military scope creep works in detail regarding drones. "Surely they should add this capability. And if it's doing that, then they could have them do this? Well, it would make sense to have them do this other thing then!" And you end up with this expensive network-meshed long-duration loitering swarm-capable etc. etc. compared to the disposable flying RPG warhead Victis fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 16:22
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drone operators are called Riggers!!!! Not Deckers graaaaagh!!!
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Aug 15, 2023 16:23
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Cannon_Fodder posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTifvVZBNWs Even "tablets since PreK" gen Alpha's won't make race quality FPV pilots. Your drone pilot will be like a 3x per company level skill, and most of them will be flying those little fixed wing ISR drones. Much easier and cheaper to use one to call in a JDAM/Excalibur/etc on a designated target from a higher echelon platform. FPV support I think will be most beneficial in urban combat environments where you need eyes inside windows and rooms. FPV Recon and FPV Frag will be useful for clearing buildings. If anything is out in the open there are better smart munitions.
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Aug 15, 2023 16:27
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psydude posted:Artillery shells are far easier to mass produce than drones, which (at least in their current form) rely on lithium batteries and would be highly susceptible to supply chain disruptions in a major war. Just looking at the article below it's probably far from as fast and responsive as artillery but volume of fire is no problem currently. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2020/10/14/china-releases-video-of-new-barrage-swarm-drone-launcher/amp/ Now imagine those 48 drones flying on autopilot to a squad on the frontline where a couple of squad members gets to poke at a screen to direct them down the fox holes and bunkers of their targets. Increase the loitering time and add some target recognition AI and they will become an effective area denial too.
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Aug 15, 2023 16:35
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Trench warfare with manhacks sounds terrible
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Aug 15, 2023 16:47
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What is an artillery shell but a super fast one way drone?
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Aug 15, 2023 16:54
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Why not just forget the AI and have the drones outfitted with thermals and just roam an area searching for targets. Now your area of engagement is many square miles and you, some rear end in a top hat scraped off the streets of moscow, randomly see your buddies explode, and it doesn't matter where you hide, day or night. No need to expend a thousand drones at a time, you can't advance into that. Hell, you can't even defend against that.
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Aug 15, 2023 16:54
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not caring here posted:Why not just forget the AI and have the drones outfitted with thermals and just roam an area searching for targets. That sounds terrifying
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Aug 15, 2023 16:58
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So basically a longer lasting version of that thermalseeking frisbee shaped charge cluster bomb
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Aug 15, 2023 17:06
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Flikken posted:That sounds terrifying And cheap!
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Aug 15, 2023 17:11
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Isn't that just a flying mine at that point?
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Aug 15, 2023 17:17
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not caring here posted:Why not just forget the AI and have the drones outfitted with thermals and just roam an area searching for targets. AI is needed for thermal targeting too, otherwise the intended targets can just light a couple of fires to deplete the loitering munitions.
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Aug 15, 2023 17:18
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Terror campaigns seem to literally never work, so this tactic would accomplish less than young Oleg chipping in and flying the drone up Putins rear end.
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Aug 15, 2023 17:19
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Oh god, the Reformers are going to be proven right if we can get the drones to convincingly mimic birds to radar systems Science has gone too far
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Aug 15, 2023 17:23
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not caring here posted:Why not just forget the AI and have the drones outfitted with thermals and just roam an area searching for targets. sounds like a great way to accidentally a bunch of warcrimes / civilian deaths also this Zudgemud posted:AI is needed for thermal targeting too, otherwise the intended targets can just light a couple of fires to deplete the loitering munitions.
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Aug 15, 2023 17:23
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Oh no, this is old school poo poo, FPV or bust. Human eyes only. And then you've got some poor moscow rear end in a top hat who managed to get back in relatively one piece, and now he's flooded by poo poo on TikTok and IG with Ukraine chopping up videos, one FPV drone witnesses another doing sweet stuntin' drone kills. You see a video of a drone literally cartwheeling into your buddy and turning him to raspberry jam with a cartoon SHAZAM edited over the top, or a drone hitting 300 km/h and doing a deadstick throttle off lob at another of your friends from 200 metres out, rips off his legs. Then you realize your whole unit got merced for some Telegram drone stuntin' ads for the enemy. Cool times, cool times.
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Aug 15, 2023 17:24
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not caring here posted:Why not just forget the AI and have the drones outfitted with thermals and just roam an area searching for targets. I gotta big tub of jello and an aquarium heater. I also have a thermal blanket so your drone can't find me. There, I beat your warcriming with 50.00 of stuff from Walmart.
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Aug 15, 2023 17:39
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You want some real horror, now you've got hold of some hyperspectral cameras for your drones. They aren't cheap, but you're looking dudes who are hiding away somehwere. You modify the filter wavelengths to track reductions in photosynthesis in the grass, and now you are tracking soldiers like you were the goddamn Predator. You see foot steps lead to a vehicle husk or cave, and you just lob it in and do the needful. Or get other buzzers to come in because those hyper spectrals are about 50k a pop, and we're on a budget. Gotta get those KPI's up. By the way if anyone thinks I am endorsing any of this, I am not. But this is all possible with current levels of technology.
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Aug 15, 2023 17:42
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M_Gargantua posted:Nukes are the best deterrent per dollar you can get.  bought me the privilege of telling ladies I'm a something awful poster.
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Aug 15, 2023 17:57
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