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BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

What if I'm a HR person working for the police?

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Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!

Uncle Boogeyman posted:

just chiming in to say 99% of HR people (and i'm being very charitable with that 1%) are pieces of poo poo. HR is not your friend.

But they always use smileys and funny gifs when they want to me to interview for their crypto casino job!

Kingoffrogs
Aug 14, 2023

Uncle Boogeyman posted:

just chiming in to say 99% of HR people (and i'm being very charitable with that 1%) are pieces of poo poo. HR is not your friend.

The purpose of HR isn't to help employees: it's to help the company avoid lawsuits. HR will get you fired in an instant if they think your complaint threatens the company.

Proust Malone
Apr 4, 2008


I grew up there, left after high school and never made it back other than to visit my parents once in a while. Maui was unrecognizable to me even before the fire. so haole

Biplane
Jul 18, 2005

Frog Act posted:

I would compromise my communist principles for enough money and do such a job but the bleak reality is they have a hundred thousand people with Ivy League degrees and an authentic desire to suck the blood of the global south waiting in line. people like me are so socially superfluous I couldn’t even sell out in a meaningful way if I wanted to, which is true for 90% of Americans in general

My communist principles and myself are 100% for sale at this point in my life, so any foreign operatives listening in, PM me, my rates are very reasonable.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

The only time I ever caught paperwork was for being mouthy to HR.

Grey Fox
Jan 5, 2004

Uncle Boogeyman posted:

just chiming in to say 99% of HR people (and i'm being very charitable with that 1%) are pieces of poo poo. HR is not your friend.

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

BonHair posted:

What if I'm a HR person working for the police?

Oh wow, you found the hr person who supports a union

Large Testicles
Jun 1, 2020

[ASK] ME ABOUT MY LOVE FOR 1'S

Biplane posted:

My communist principles and myself are 100% for sale at this point in my life, so any foreign operatives listening in, PM me, my rates are very reasonable.

:same:

Dr. VooDoo
May 4, 2006


https://www.newsweek.com/investors-calling-maui-wildfire-victims-buy-their-land-1819600

:laffo: can’t even wait for all the bones to be found, gotta strike while the shock is still fresh

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:
the idea that working in hr will lead you to getting paid is loving hilarious

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:
shaking the nice receptionist lady demanding she take me to her golden hoaed

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
I got something to say that feels important, like "email a congressperson" important, but I don't know where to start, so here seems as good as anywhere. There's a lot of background so bear with me:

I work in Social Security, at the hearings level, as a court reporter. I hear cases all day, typically people who have filed for disability but were denied at the 'bureaucratic paperwork' level, and who appealed to 'talk to a judge about it' level. As part of my job, I work closely with 4 groups of people:
1) Claimants, people who have filed for disability,
2) Representatives, typically (but not always) attorneys, lawyers etc,
3) The Judges (specifically Administrative Law Judges or ALJ) who hear the cases,
4) Vocational Experts (or VEs), whose role is to give the ALJ 'evidence' to use in deciding the cases. These are typically occupational counselors and most are PhD carriers, or have similarly long careers.

What typically happens in a hearing is the ALJ asks the Claimant about their alleged disabilities, then the Rep asks questions to get a bit more testimony, then using that testimony (plus the claimant's medical file etc) the ALJ will ask the VE "is there any work that a person with [so and so] disabilities can perform?" If the answer comes back "No", the claimant will likely win their SSA (providing no abnormalities in paperwork etc).

If the answer is "Yes," the VE will typically list a handful of jobs that one might be able to do-- for example, if someone can't stand up, they might be able to do a sit-down position, clerical work or whatever. If they are learning-disabled or highly anxious, they might be able to do simple repetitive work. If the VE can find ~10,000 jobs in total nationally, then the claimant will likely be denied their SSA claim.

As a side note, some ALJ take pride in their rejection rate- it's soul poison to hear them talk off the record sometimes. One ALJ worked under the assumption that if they were fit enough to come to court, they could do a job, and if they couldn't make it to court he would just dismiss the case. Thankfully he's retired now, and while he was an outlier, it's not a 'Denials Georg' situation

Anyway, the information VEs use is based on an old 1993 DOT guidebook, along with Dept of Labor studies and their own experiences placing folks in the labor market. This sometimes presents issues, like one job that is often cited as possible for folks to do is 'Document Preparer, Microfilm/Microfiche'. When reps take issue with this, the VE typically says "While the job has changed over the years, it's still essentially the same, you just use a scanner now".

The problem comes here: I've heard a few discussions about this between ALJ/VE (hearings are all MS Teams phone conferences that I mediate/operate) where they are talking about the next version of the DOT that is coming soon-ish. The next version, I've heard from multiple conversations, are moving many positions from 'lightly skilled' to 'unskilled', and some niche jobs are getting widely expanded such as Surveillance System Monitor- a sit-down job with virtually no physical or mental demands.

I'm very worried, because regardless of impairments, it's very difficult to convince these ALJ that you aren't capable of sitting down and watching a TV screen for a work shift. If these low-level jobs widely expand (SSM above is likely to hit 10k by itself, as supermarkets are starting to employ folks 24/7 on that position) then we will see a massive, massive increase in ALJ who may be compelled to find claimants Not Disabled, even if the ALJs aren't just looking for excuses to deny claims. Social Security doesn't differentiate between 'this job is available nationally' and 'this job is available locally'-- if there are 10,000 jobs in California, then our claimant in New York won't be found disabled. This has the potential to be a tiny bureaucratic change that may end up raising the bar for disability immensely! And it's not like just because the DOT says there are that many jobs, that they suddenly exist as vacancies. As an added bonus, it's not a huge leap to assume that DOT 2023 will be used for 30+ years too...

This seems like it would be a small change that nobody in power would notice, those immediately affected (ALJ) would celebrate, and claimants wouldn't notice (since you don't apply more than once usually). Who would I even reach out to? Should I send a congressperson an email? Tag AOC on Twitter?

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.
You're welcome to send that to your congressbots but know that they only deal with constituent complaints in aggregate.

If you'd like to make a substantial donation, I'm sure they'd be willing to listen. Goon SuperPAC!

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Maybe HR isn't the most evil job in the world

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019
Probation
Can't post for 7 hours!
in person of interest the gang within a gang ("gang gang") is the HR division of police... by far the most vicious

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

mawarannahr posted:

in person of interest the gang within a gang ("gang gang") is the HR division of police... by far the most vicious

gang gang, brutality so good.

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

Al! posted:

the idea that working in hr will lead you to getting paid is loving hilarious
Given the person's history and current pay, it was the first thing that jumped to mind as an easy way to substantially increase their salary. Not saying it's the best way, just one of the first ones I thought of.

Koishi Komeiji
Mar 30, 2003



There's also the young indian method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBkvG8O50yc

Not much better than working in HR but at the end of the day you gotta rip someone off to eat :shrug:

Slotducks
Oct 16, 2008

Nobody puts Phil in a corner.


gang gang, resent anyone with a paycheque higher than me, gang gang, thanks for the party committee hat, gang gang

Nieuw Amsterdam
Dec 1, 2006

Dignité. Toujours, dignité.

spacemang_spliff posted:

trump put my student loans in forbearance and biden is bringing them back after teasing forgiving loans (starting in October 2022)

“I’ll vote for Trump, the guy who literally appointed the Supreme Court Justices who made loan forgiveness illegal.”

Your loans have been in forebearance generating no interest for almost three years, how much did you pay them down during the period when all payments went to principal?

Large Testicles
Jun 1, 2020

[ASK] ME ABOUT MY LOVE FOR 1'S

Nieuw Amsterdam posted:

“I’ll vote for Trump, the guy who literally appointed the Supreme Court Justices who made loan forgiveness illegal.”

Your loans have been in forebearance generating no interest for almost three years, how much did you pay them down during the period when all payments went to principal?

why would you have paid anything if you thought they were getting forgiven ? I haven’t paid anything myself cause I went to a Corinthian College school so I’m just waiting for that poo poo to finally go through.

spacemang_spliff
Nov 29, 2014

wide pickle

Nieuw Amsterdam posted:

“I’ll vote for Trump, the guy who literally appointed the Supreme Court Justices who made loan forgiveness illegal.”

Your loans have been in forebearance generating no interest for almost three years, how much did you pay them down during the period when all payments went to principal?

i've been paying into my loans the entire time but a lot of people couldn't.

the democrats gave up any additional forbearance as a bargaining chip long before the scrotus struck down their half assed attempt at loan forgiveness

Nieuw Amsterdam
Dec 1, 2006

Dignité. Toujours, dignité.

Large Testicles posted:

why would you have paid anything if you thought they were getting forgiven ? I haven’t paid anything myself cause I went to a Corinthian College school so I’m just waiting for that poo poo to finally go through.

If someone actually thinks Biden and the Democrats are hustlers and class warriors, why would they act like forgiveness was legitimate and definitely gong to happen?

I have a relative who took their student loans from $INSANE to fully paid during the forbearance, sole reason being all payments were now to principal and the balance couldn’t increase.

if you think that Biden actually wants to forgive, but knows that the Supreme Court are tricky fuckers who repeatedly invent any standing and logic they need to make being liberal illegal, then your proper hedge is to keep making payments (if one is able) to minimize your balance.

The absolutely wrong move is to sit on your rear end for three years and then get big mad when the totally predictable conservative court fucks everything up, then take it out on Biden.

In your case you went to a fraudulent school, that’s being handled separately and is not part of the lawsuit.

Bouillon Rube
Aug 6, 2009


https://www.npr.org/2023/08/15/1193809048/the-blind-side-michael-oher-adoption

lmao turns out white lady didn’t do A Good Thing afterall

Nieuw Amsterdam
Dec 1, 2006

Dignité. Toujours, dignité.

spacemang_spliff posted:

i've been paying into my loans the entire time but a lot of people couldn't.

the democrats gave up any additional forbearance as a bargaining chip long before the scrotus struck down their half assed attempt at loan forgiveness

That’s absolutely not true and Biden is forgiving loans not covered by the SC case right now.

People paying for more than 20 years, for instance:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/14/student-loan-forgiveness-lawsuit-dismissed/

That’s 800,000 people.

Durr Hurr, Democrats aren’t doing anything for anybody.

Biden also has a mild refinancing plan for people whose payments are being forced to restart:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/p...th/70558158007/

I had to use a secret advanced hacking tool called “Google” to find these obscure programs that apply to millions of people.

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019
Probation
Can't post for 7 hours!

Nieuw Amsterdam posted:

That’s absolutely not true and Biden is forgiving loans not covered by the SC case right now.

People paying for more than 20 years, for instance:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/14/student-loan-forgiveness-lawsuit-dismissed/

That’s 800,000 people.

Durr Hurr, Democrats aren’t doing anything for anybody.

Biden also has a mild refinancing plan for people whose payments are being forced to restart:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/p...th/70558158007/

I had to use a secret advanced hacking tool called “Google” to find these obscure programs that apply to millions of people.

syq

spacemang_spliff
Nov 29, 2014

wide pickle

Nieuw Amsterdam posted:

That’s absolutely not true and Biden is forgiving loans not covered by the SC case right now.

People paying for more than 20 years, for instance:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/14/student-loan-forgiveness-lawsuit-dismissed/

That’s 800,000 people.

Durr Hurr, Democrats aren’t doing anything for anybody.

Biden also has a mild refinancing plan for people whose payments are being forced to restart:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/p...th/70558158007/

I had to use a secret advanced hacking tool called “Google” to find these obscure programs that apply to millions of people.

biden and the democrats gave up the ability to extend forbearance for everyone in the debt ceiling bill.

I'm glad those people got their loans forgiven but that doesn't affect most borrowers and $39 billion is a drop in the bucket

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

Nieuw Amsterdam posted:

If someone actually thinks Biden and the Democrats are hustlers and class warriors, why would they act like forgiveness was legitimate and definitely gong to happen?

I have a relative who took their student loans from $INSANE to fully paid during the forbearance, sole reason being all payments were now to principal and the balance couldn’t increase.

if you think that Biden actually wants to forgive, but knows that the Supreme Court are tricky fuckers who repeatedly invent any standing and logic they need to make being liberal illegal, then your proper hedge is to keep making payments (if one is able) to minimize your balance.

The absolutely wrong move is to sit on your rear end for three years and then get big mad when the totally predictable conservative court fucks everything up, then take it out on Biden.

In your case you went to a fraudulent school, that’s being handled separately and is not part of the lawsuit.

Are you deliberately trolling, or are you actually this stupid? I'm genuinely curious.

Even if you think there is a zero percent chance of loan forgiveness, paying down your loans during the forbearance period is literally setting money on fire. Your interest rate on loan paydown during that period is 0%, whereas the interest rate on something as liquid as a high-yield savings account is 4%. You're just burning money. And at the end of the forbearance, you can choose to use some, none, or all of that money you set aside for the loan, or use it on something else (like, I don't know, possibly food or rent if thinks are going Biden-ish-ly), versus paying down the loan, which is money you will just never see again.

If you think there's the tiniest chance that some or all of your loan might be forgiven, paying it down during this period when not paying it down costs you literally nothing and risking paying money you didn't need to pay is a fantastically idiotic decision.

Sorry to hear about your relative's brain damage, though. Condolences.

Ham Equity has issued a correction as of 20:54 on Aug 15, 2023

Large Testicles
Jun 1, 2020

[ASK] ME ABOUT MY LOVE FOR 1'S

Ham Equity posted:

Are you deliberately trolling, or are you actually this stupid? I'm genuinely curious.

Even if you think there is a zero percent chance of loan forgiveness, paying down your loans during the forbearance period is literally setting money on fire. Your interest rate on loan paydown during that period is 0%, whereas the interest rate on something as liquid as a high-yield savings account is 4%. You're just burning money. And at the end of the forbearance, you can choose to use some, none, or all of that money you set aside for the loan, or use it on something else (like, I don't know, possibly food or rent if thinks are going Biden-ish-ly), versus paying down the loan, which is money you will just never see again.

If you think there's the tiniest chance that some or all of your loan might be forgiven, paying it down during this period when not paying it down costs you literally nothing and risking paying money you didn't need to pay is a fantastically idiotic decision.

Sorry to hear about your relative's brain damage, though. Condolences.

thank you for saying what I was about to type out

Nieuw Amsterdam
Dec 1, 2006

Dignité. Toujours, dignité.

Ham Equity posted:

Are you deliberately trolling, or are you actually this stupid? I'm genuinely curious.

Even if you think there is a zero percent chance of loan forgiveness, paying down your loans during the forbearance period is literally setting money on fire. Your interest rate on loan paydown during that period is 0%, whereas the interest rate on something as liquid as a high-yield savings account is 4%. You're just burning money. And at the end of the forbearance, you can choose to use some, none, or all of that money you set aside for the loan, or use it on something else (like, I don't know, possibly food or rent if thinks are going Biden-ish-ly), versus paying down the loan, which is money you will just never see again.

If you think there's the tiniest chance that some or all of your loan might be forgiven, paying it down during this period when not paying it down costs you literally nothing and risking paying money you didn't need to pay is a fantastically idiotic decision.

Sorry to hear about your relative's brain damage, though. Condolences.

My relative is a PhD and is now debt free without waiting for a miracle to happen. They are literally a brain scientist. Definitely a program with a lot of morons.

I suppose they could have put the money each month in a interest bearing account (at a whopping 4%, hold on I may faint at that kind of money)

But all that interest is taxable (remember those?) so they aren’t really getting 4%.

Should they reduce the debt tax/ fee free or make a tiny bit more taxable income and defer the debt relief? 🤷‍♂️

Theres also the psychology of spending where money sitting in the bank is “available” for spending/poo poo happens/whatever versus “moneys gone it’s paying the debt.”

And you only get those interest rates with large lump sum deposits (I get offers all the time to deposit $100k at 4%, gee thanks guys, would love to if I could), which they don’t have, only the monthly nut.

The lost opportunity cost is de minimus so who gives a poo poo?

It’s legitimate to favor the utility of seeing BIG DEBT NUMBER GO DOWN over “let me minimax a couple of hundred dollars over a three year period.”

Add in the uncertainty of when and if forgiveness ever happens, and what the final terms look like, and sure sign me up.

“You paid your massive debt down fast completely wrong you loving moron” is definitely some big brain terminally online poo poo and I prescribe touching grass ASAP.

Koishi Komeiji
Mar 30, 2003



Nieuw Amsterdam posted:

My relative is a PhD and is now debt free without waiting for a miracle to happen. They are literally a brain scientist. Definitely a program with a lot of morons.

I suppose they could have put the money each month in a interest bearing account (at a whopping 4%, hold on I may faint at that kind of money)

But all that interest is taxable (remember those?) so they aren’t really getting 4%.

Should they reduce the debt tax/ fee free or make a tiny bit more taxable income and defer the debt relief? 🤷‍♂️

Theres also the psychology of spending where money sitting in the bank is “available” for spending/poo poo happens/whatever versus “moneys gone it’s paying the debt.”

And you only get those interest rates with large lump sum deposits (I get offers all the time to deposit $100k at 4%, gee thanks guys, would love to if I could), which they don’t have, only the monthly nut.

The lost opportunity cost is de minimus so who gives a poo poo?

It’s legitimate to favor the utility of seeing BIG DEBT NUMBER GO DOWN over “let me minimax a couple of hundred dollars over a three year period.”

Add in the uncertainty of when and if forgiveness ever happens, and what the final terms look like, and sure sign me up.

“You paid your massive debt down fast completely wrong you loving moron” is definitely some big brain terminally online poo poo and I prescribe touching grass ASAP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql4JgBBgHA4

Morbus
May 18, 2004

Evilreaver posted:

I got something to say that feels important, like "email a congressperson" important, but I don't know where to start, so here seems as good as anywhere. There's a lot of background so bear with me:

I work in Social Security, at the hearings level, as a court reporter. I hear cases all day, typically people who have filed for disability but were denied at the 'bureaucratic paperwork' level, and who appealed to 'talk to a judge about it' level. As part of my job, I work closely with 4 groups of people:
1) Claimants, people who have filed for disability,
2) Representatives, typically (but not always) attorneys, lawyers etc,
3) The Judges (specifically Administrative Law Judges or ALJ) who hear the cases,
4) Vocational Experts (or VEs), whose role is to give the ALJ 'evidence' to use in deciding the cases. These are typically occupational counselors and most are PhD carriers, or have similarly long careers.

What typically happens in a hearing is the ALJ asks the Claimant about their alleged disabilities, then the Rep asks questions to get a bit more testimony, then using that testimony (plus the claimant's medical file etc) the ALJ will ask the VE "is there any work that a person with [so and so] disabilities can perform?" If the answer comes back "No", the claimant will likely win their SSA (providing no abnormalities in paperwork etc).

If the answer is "Yes," the VE will typically list a handful of jobs that one might be able to do-- for example, if someone can't stand up, they might be able to do a sit-down position, clerical work or whatever. If they are learning-disabled or highly anxious, they might be able to do simple repetitive work. If the VE can find ~10,000 jobs in total nationally, then the claimant will likely be denied their SSA claim.

As a side note, some ALJ take pride in their rejection rate- it's soul poison to hear them talk off the record sometimes. One ALJ worked under the assumption that if they were fit enough to come to court, they could do a job, and if they couldn't make it to court he would just dismiss the case. Thankfully he's retired now, and while he was an outlier, it's not a 'Denials Georg' situation

Anyway, the information VEs use is based on an old 1993 DOT guidebook, along with Dept of Labor studies and their own experiences placing folks in the labor market. This sometimes presents issues, like one job that is often cited as possible for folks to do is 'Document Preparer, Microfilm/Microfiche'. When reps take issue with this, the VE typically says "While the job has changed over the years, it's still essentially the same, you just use a scanner now".

The problem comes here: I've heard a few discussions about this between ALJ/VE (hearings are all MS Teams phone conferences that I mediate/operate) where they are talking about the next version of the DOT that is coming soon-ish. The next version, I've heard from multiple conversations, are moving many positions from 'lightly skilled' to 'unskilled', and some niche jobs are getting widely expanded such as Surveillance System Monitor- a sit-down job with virtually no physical or mental demands.

I'm very worried, because regardless of impairments, it's very difficult to convince these ALJ that you aren't capable of sitting down and watching a TV screen for a work shift. If these low-level jobs widely expand (SSM above is likely to hit 10k by itself, as supermarkets are starting to employ folks 24/7 on that position) then we will see a massive, massive increase in ALJ who may be compelled to find claimants Not Disabled, even if the ALJs aren't just looking for excuses to deny claims. Social Security doesn't differentiate between 'this job is available nationally' and 'this job is available locally'-- if there are 10,000 jobs in California, then our claimant in New York won't be found disabled. This has the potential to be a tiny bureaucratic change that may end up raising the bar for disability immensely! And it's not like just because the DOT says there are that many jobs, that they suddenly exist as vacancies. As an added bonus, it's not a huge leap to assume that DOT 2023 will be used for 30+ years too...

This seems like it would be a small change that nobody in power would notice, those immediately affected (ALJ) would celebrate, and claimants wouldn't notice (since you don't apply more than once usually). Who would I even reach out to? Should I send a congressperson an email? Tag AOC on Twitter?

Sounds like everything is working as intended op

Nieuw Amsterdam
Dec 1, 2006

Dignité. Toujours, dignité.

https://youtu.be/qTZseO04-98

The Demilich
Apr 9, 2020

The First Rites of Men Were Mortuary, the First Altars Tombs.



Wish I had brain doctor money.

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

Nieuw Amsterdam posted:

My relative is a PhD and is now debt free without waiting for a miracle to happen. They are literally a brain scientist. Definitely a program with a lot of morons.

I suppose they could have put the money each month in a interest bearing account (at a whopping 4%, hold on I may faint at that kind of money)

But all that interest is taxable (remember those?) so they aren’t really getting 4%.

Should they reduce the debt tax/ fee free or make a tiny bit more taxable income and defer the debt relief? 🤷‍♂️

Theres also the psychology of spending where money sitting in the bank is “available” for spending/poo poo happens/whatever versus “moneys gone it’s paying the debt.”

And you only get those interest rates with large lump sum deposits (I get offers all the time to deposit $100k at 4%, gee thanks guys, would love to if I could), which they don’t have, only the monthly nut.

The lost opportunity cost is de minimus so who gives a poo poo?

It’s legitimate to favor the utility of seeing BIG DEBT NUMBER GO DOWN over “let me minimax a couple of hundred dollars over a three year period.”

Add in the uncertainty of when and if forgiveness ever happens, and what the final terms look like, and sure sign me up.

“You paid your massive debt down fast completely wrong you loving moron” is definitely some big brain terminally online poo poo and I prescribe touching grass ASAP.
Sorry, I'm having trouble quantifying student loans that are simultaneously "$INSANE" and so small that 3% interest for three years is nothing. Those Schroedinger Loans are rough.

It's a shame your relative didn't get their PhD in finance instead of brain stuff, they'd have a chance at fraud-based forgiveness, then. And yeah, I forgot how putting money in a savings account monthly doesn't add up to a lot the same way that paying down a loan does...?

Ally has a zero-minimum-balance HYSA that's been around for a very long time (since well before the pandemic) that currently pays 4.25%; that's not even min-maxing, it's just one of the more popular, easy ones. Very easy to find using that advanced hacking tool you referred to earlier.

The lost opportunity cost isn't just the interest from the HYSA, but also the liquidity, and the lost money if forgiveness *does* end up happening. If Biden ends up doing $10,000 in forgiveness, that's $10,000 Cousin Dr. Brains is out for nothing.

And as you point out, now you don't have that money around if "poo poo happens." So now, instead of having some savings to fall back on, your "poo poo happens" plan has to be credit cards, which, instead of getting 4%, you're going to be paying TWENTY-four percent. Truly, the Dr. Galaxy Brains smart move, here. While I understand the dopamine hit you get from "number go down," and how some people may have problem with self-control, just do a direct deposit into the HYSA, don't get a debit card for it, and don't link it to your normal checking account; if those sorts of basic behavioral checks are beyond your relative, maybe they do qualify for fraud-based forgiveness.

Like, personal finance shouldn't be this difficult or complicated; you shouldn't have to put this level of thought into it. But telling me to touch grass instead of do basic arithmetic is really something.

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Tbf that Ally account was at like 0.1% interest until very recently but other than that sure.

Troutful
May 31, 2011

Nieuw Amsterdam posted:

My relative is a PhD and is now debt free without waiting for a miracle to happen. They are literally a brain scientist. Definitely a program with a lot of morons.

I suppose they could have put the money each month in a interest bearing account (at a whopping 4%, hold on I may faint at that kind of money)

But all that interest is taxable (remember those?) so they aren’t really getting 4%.

Should they reduce the debt tax/ fee free or make a tiny bit more taxable income and defer the debt relief? 🤷‍♂️

Theres also the psychology of spending where money sitting in the bank is “available” for spending/poo poo happens/whatever versus “moneys gone it’s paying the debt.”

And you only get those interest rates with large lump sum deposits (I get offers all the time to deposit $100k at 4%, gee thanks guys, would love to if I could), which they don’t have, only the monthly nut.

The lost opportunity cost is de minimus so who gives a poo poo?

It’s legitimate to favor the utility of seeing BIG DEBT NUMBER GO DOWN over “let me minimax a couple of hundred dollars over a three year period.”

Add in the uncertainty of when and if forgiveness ever happens, and what the final terms look like, and sure sign me up.

“You paid your massive debt down fast completely wrong you loving moron” is definitely some big brain terminally online poo poo and I prescribe touching grass ASAP.

I paid off my student loan debt as soon as I could because I hated having it hanging over my head, but it wasn't the smartest financial move. Not paying down your student loan principal could also be an emotionally-motivated decision for some people (if they hoped loans would be forgiven). I don't really see the point in chastising people for either decision.

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Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Troutful posted:

I paid off my student loan debt as soon as I could because I hated having it hanging over my head, but it wasn't the smartest financial move. Not paying down your student loan principal could also be an emotionally-motivated decision for some people (if they hoped loans would be forgiven). I don't really see the point in chastising people for either decision.

Sir this is the internet, only one thing can be objectively right and it has to be an extreme

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