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cant cook creole bream posted:So Miles' dad is the main character? Checks out. It IS a movie about relationships with parents and if you didn’t realize that I don’t know about your media analysis skills…
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Aug 13, 2023 14:27
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Are you trying to say that the character who had the entire 15 minute opening sequence dedicated to her is not one of the protagonists? And that the film is not a story about her?
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Aug 13, 2023 18:14
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 How do you come to that conclusion? (not you Co Poster, other posts about Gwen not being a protag or the focus of the story)
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Aug 13, 2023 20:27
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My argument is railing against the assertion that AtSV's main story arc is complete, since Gwen made up with her dad. Which is bullshit for several reasons! Her story arc hasn't gone anywhere - she's the same person she was at the beginning, she's been reactively tagging along to the people who are opposed to stuff, and as the other posted pointed out the only way she got reconciliation was that her dad did a 180° offscreen. Heck, her arc isn't complete yet, since the whole "captain gonna die, is it her dad?" hasn't played out yet. She hasn't even vocalized much about it, goddamn. So yea, the cliffhanger applies to her too, absolutely nothing at all as been resolved. As for the pedantic minutae of if she's the protag: if Gwen was cut, would there still be a film? Could she be replaced by another? Can we say the same about Miles? She's part of the ensamble, but she's not the protagonist by any definition of the word. But I have less skin in this than the other point above.
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Aug 14, 2023 01:01
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Gwen's arc: She starts out convinced she doesn't want or need friends - and at the end, she's gathering up all her friends.
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Aug 14, 2023 01:08
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You seem to think the protagonist had to be the primary driver of the plot, but it doesn’t. Not that Gwen is, but your reasons are also wrong.
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Aug 14, 2023 01:09
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If the standard for being a protagonist is they can't be cut or replaced with a different character, then the groundhog is the protagonist of Groundhog Day.
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Aug 14, 2023 01:14
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I mean Gwen's mostly not the protag since the Camera follows Miles for 2 hours vs her 20 minutes, and every time they're in the same room it's from his perspective, and she does a bunch of stuff offscreen, like important stuff, but we're with Miles as it's revealed to him so we can see his surprise. I'm not a lit major, and I know the protag can be a character off to the side of the narrative's perspective, but come the gently caress on, if this was a story about Gwen (being told through the eyes of Miles) then it was a pretty poo poo story.
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Aug 14, 2023 01:24
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Honestly, you're way wrong in this. There is no limit to protagonists in stories. Yes, Miles is a main protagonist but so is Gwen, and I believe her story is the heart of the film. The movie begins and ends with her, and this alone tells you that she is a big deal and that the fact her story bookends the film means that you need to pay attention to what happens to her. Her visiting Miles is a big deal. When they're together Miles doesn't dominate the perspective. We quite literally see the world turned upside down through Gwen's perspective before Miles joins her. The adventure in Mumbattan switches between them both as Gwen struggles with her feelings for Miles and interfering with the canon event, and then her panic when Miles is caught under the rubble. Her scene with her father is pretty much the emotional heart of the movie and where we see the change that happens with her, and again the movie makes sure you know this because of the color scheme flowing with the emotions. Gwen had been lost for so long and was trying to find her place and struggling because she couldn't open up to anyone and felt alone. But she has a breakthrough with her father and realized that she didn't have to stay closed off and there were people out there that understood her. So she didn't have to pretend to be someone else in order to try and fit in and could take control of her life and stand up for herself and what she believes in. And once more, we don't end the movie on Miles. We end it with Gwen, our hero, gathering others to her cause. She is the main driver in this moment, not Miles. And saying it's 2 hours vs. 20 minutes is really disingenuous. Once Gwen drops back into the story their screen time is pretty even. But our time with Miles repeats a lot of the themes: figuring out who you are, struggling with father figures and acceptance, choosing to follow your own path rather than the one people tell you to take. Codependent Poster fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Aug 14, 2023 |
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Aug 14, 2023 01:55
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The "breakthrough with the father" doesn't happen because of any of the actions of any of the main cast though. He was an rear end in a top hat, he's left alone for an indeterminate amount of time, a single conversation happens in which he reveals he's no longer an rear end in a top hat. That's it. That's all of it. If you think that's the main story of a 2.5 hour film then I don't know what to tell you. I mean, it's good that the father got over himself, but sure would be nice to have more to it than "leave someone alone for a bit and the problem fixes itself" as a major story beat. (Yes of course she's a secondary protagonist, and I find her more interesting than Miles so I would like to see her getting equal billing, but she's still second lead not main character.) It's a long rear end film. And it's a long rear end wait for the next one, even without a major strike happening. It absolutely feels like some kind of partial conclusion could have been made to give this film a satisfactory ending beyond everything being a cliffhanger. The cliffhangers being kinda artificial as you know both situations are getting sorted in the opening of film 3 so might as well have just done some of that here, and push the bigger "break canon and save everyone" story into film 3. This just felt, to me, like Empire Strikes Back but if it ended with Luke still dangling from the bottom of Cloud City.
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Aug 14, 2023 02:26
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i would've figured the fact that it literally both opens and closes on gwen would've been the giveaway
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Aug 14, 2023 02:28
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This thread has gotten about as fun to read as a New Yorker cartoon.
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Aug 14, 2023 02:34
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Spider-man is cool.
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Aug 14, 2023 02:41
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I can solve this argument right now. When I saw this on opening night you could a popcorn bowl that was either a Miles or a Gwen head. therefore they were both protagonists (I got a gwen, because even I was not irresponsible enough for two plastic wastes of thirty bucks that you can't even put popcorn in.)
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Aug 14, 2023 02:59
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figuring out how much popcorn an afro-latino skull can hold compared to a white skull is the latest in consumer phrenology science
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Aug 14, 2023 03:04
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If two Spider-men were on the moon and one of them killed the other would that be hosed up or what?
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Aug 14, 2023 03:08
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site posted:figuring out how much popcorn an afro-latino skull can hold compared to a white skull is the latest in consumer phrenology science Of course you'd say that. You have the brainpan of a stagecoach tilter.
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Aug 14, 2023 03:09
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Nodosaur posted:If two Spider-men were on the moon and one of them killed the other would that be hosed up or what? Spider-Man doesn't kill!
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Aug 14, 2023 03:10
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CzarChasm posted:Of course you'd say that. You have the brainpan of a stagecoach tilter. 
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Aug 14, 2023 03:16
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Codependent Poster posted:Spider-Man doesn't kill! That’s why it’d be hosed up, duh
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Aug 14, 2023 03:17
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If you webshoot in space do it push you backwards
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Aug 14, 2023 03:34
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Parkingtigers posted:The "breakthrough with the father" doesn't happen because of any of the actions of any of the main cast though. He was an rear end in a top hat, he's left alone for an indeterminate amount of time, a single conversation happens in which he reveals he's no longer an rear end in a top hat. That's it. That's all of it. If you think that's the main story of a 2.5 hour film then I don't know what to tell you. Actually depending on you interpret ‘halfway through your big speech’ he might have just decided to quit in the middle of the conversation with Gwen the second time. It’d be weird for him to still be in uniform months after quitting. So it’s Gwen going back and being open that sees him quit, not that first confrontation at the beginning.
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Aug 14, 2023 07:13
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Yvonmukluk posted:Actually depending on you interpret ‘halfway through your big speech’ he might have just decided to quit in the middle of the conversation with Gwen the second time. It’d be weird for him to still be in uniform months after quitting. So it’s Gwen going back and being open that sees him quit, not that first confrontation at the beginning. No, that's fair. I must have missed that because at the start of the scene he's wearing a pink tie in Gwen's room with no tie clip. Then outside the room he's in a black tie with a tie pin, and clearly is in uniform. I don't know if they were getting too cute with the animation there but I just remembered him being in mufti during the conversation but checking back it's just a visual effect within the first room only.
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Aug 14, 2023 10:32
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Serephina posted:
The whole film hangs on Gwen coming to visit Miles and Miles diving through that portal. Gwen was disobeying orders to not contact Miles, something Peter B and Penny followed. And even if they did visit, I don't think Miles would've gone through the portal for them.
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Aug 14, 2023 16:46
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I liked the part where the spider-people beat up the Vulture that looked like a DaVinci drawing.
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Aug 14, 2023 19:26
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I was all hyped to watch Spider-Verse last night but alas, the sheer amount of visual ‘noise’ and energy was too much to stream to my hapless TV’s garbage wifi receiver. So instead I watched Asteroid City, which was pretty mid story-wise but jinkies, every single shot was stunningly gorgeous, the framing was just immaculate.
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Aug 14, 2023 19:33
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Joe Fisto posted:I liked the part where the spider-people beat up the Vulture that looked like a DaVinci drawing. The DaVinci Vulture was a very neat concept and one of those things I would love to see more about, but drat that fight was hard too follow. Too much stuff happening at the same time. So I agree with the poster before me. Amazing animation tho.
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Aug 14, 2023 20:09
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Sentinel Red posted:
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Aug 14, 2023 21:07
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You know. I loved Werewolf by Night so much I naturally assumed we'd get another Halloween themed thing on Disney+ this year and was disappointed to find out there's nothing planned.
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Aug 15, 2023 00:06
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Mochiballs posted:You know. I loved Werewolf by Night so much I naturally assumed we'd get another Halloween themed thing on Disney+ this year and was disappointed to find out there's nothing planned. You may or may not be aware that the Writers' Guild of America has been on strike for one hundred days.
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Aug 15, 2023 00:46
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It would've had to have been planned much earlier to be ready in time for Halloween anyway Marvel TV is doomed! Doomed I tells ya!
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Aug 15, 2023 01:29
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Timby posted:You may or may not be aware that the Writers' Guild of America has been on strike for one hundred days. whats that got to do with halloween 2023 halloween 2024 is also toast now, sure
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Aug 15, 2023 01:58
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They didn't even release Werewolf by Night for Hallowe'en last year, which was baffling.
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Aug 15, 2023 02:15
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Soul Glo posted:whats that got to do with halloween 2023 Werewolf By Night was written and filmed in Spring 2022 and released on October 7, it wasn't an intense production. If the AMPTP pulled their heads out of their asses and the WGA hadn't gone on strike on May 2, something could easily have been put together by Halloween this year.
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Aug 15, 2023 02:16
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They have the Agatha Harkness thing coming up which certainly could have been planned for Halloween. But Marvel’s schedule seems to have been crunched and a bit of a mess ever since Covid even before the strike. I definitely think they should just make it a thing to do holiday specials. But their thing right now seems to be not rushing things to fit the original schedule?
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Aug 15, 2023 22:10
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STAC Goat posted:They have the Agatha Harkness thing coming up which certainly could have been planned for Halloween. But Marvel’s schedule seems to have been crunched and a bit of a mess ever since Covid even before the strike.
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Aug 16, 2023 01:19
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FlamingLiberal posted:Did they even start production on the Agatha thing? If Disney is looking to slim down projects that seems like a good candidate. Nah that's still moving forward. It actually seems like it's going to be more important to everything else than Secret Invasion.
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Aug 16, 2023 01:36
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Codependent Poster posted:Nah that's still moving forward. It actually seems like it's going to be more important to everything else than Secret Invasion. What, it's going to be at all relevant?
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Aug 16, 2023 01:37
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STAC Goat posted:They have the Agatha Harkness thing coming up which certainly could have been planned for Halloween. But Marvel’s schedule seems to have been crunched and a bit of a mess ever since Covid even before the strike. Oh yeah! Thanks. I totally forgot about that. It'd have have been nice to get that around Halloween.
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Aug 16, 2023 03:13
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It feels like a leftover from a time people gave a poo poo about the MCU and would eat up anything. I guess it could still be successful if the show is actually, you know, good.
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Aug 16, 2023 08:23
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