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Miles Blundell posted:not to spoil anything but the djinn isn't a human and treating the story like she's a person and not a god isn't going to work out in any goofy simple moralistic way that you might want to read the thing I mean the Djinn is a sentient, thinking creature. Whether it's a human creature or not is beside the point, it's still a person. It has wants, needs, desires, and a sense of self. If the story wants you to treat it like a force of nature and not a character, they've hosed up. But I do think we are mean to see her as a person, if an alien one, and I do think we are meant to be horrified with Rhett here. And it's not 'reading it in a moralistic way' to point out that she honored the deal and he is trying to destroy or possess her for not wanting to be his slave. Terms like freedom, wife, etc are used in the text. She is shown wanting to be set free. She is shown thinking, having an internal life, desires, and yes, not understanding humans, but a powerful person with different psychology from a human is still a person. I also never said that it's wrong for the comic to portray this, or that I expect it to end in some kind of moral lesson. Looks like a tragedy being set up right now. But that doesn't mean it's not horrifying.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:08
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Uh she's literally cursed to do exactly that; she doesn't have any agency in the matter. she's clearly been acting in good faith within her limitations, whereas Rhett has the ability to not enslave her and actively chooses to refrain from doing so
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Aug 17, 2023 20:08
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Uh she's literally cursed to do exactly that; she doesn't have any agency in the matter. thank you mycatscrimes has a new favorite as of 20:11 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 20:09
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ultrafilter posted:I only count eight birds in the comic but your collage has nine. Very suspicious. Curse you Li Chen for not anticipating this eventuality, CURSE YOOOOUUUUUU *disappears into a bird*
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Aug 17, 2023 20:12
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man i wish they could teach people to read before the post-secondary level of education
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Aug 17, 2023 20:12
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Miles Blundell posted:man i wish they could teach people to read before the post-secondary level of education Go gently caress yourself The writer and the story are fine, but you're being an rear end in a top hat for no reason
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Aug 17, 2023 20:14
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When you think about it, we're all the djinn and Rhett is society
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Aug 17, 2023 20:14
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Look I know that asking people to have literary patience and poo poo in a thread for talking about webcomics is a lot but this is not a website that I think is like primarily populated by teenagers and it is just kind of depressing sometimes. I'm trying to have interpersonal patience but watching grown people read stories like teenagers is something that i find difficult on some level. I'm not really trying to be a dick about it in particular but I also really want to encourage people to read things in a more interesting way than the most simplistic and outrage moralizing style that shows up on twitter or whatever.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:17
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Miles Blundell posted:. I'm not really trying to be a dick about it Finding this hard to believe
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Aug 17, 2023 20:21
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I have no idea what you're getting at, but I think I'd rather empathize with the sapient characters than read like an adult, if those are the options.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:21
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Miles Blundell posted:Look I know that asking people to have literary patience and poo poo in a thread for talking about webcomics is a lot but this is not a website that I think is like primarily populated by teenagers and it is just kind of depressing sometimes. I'm trying to have interpersonal patience but watching grown people read stories like teenagers is something that i find difficult on some level. I'm not really trying to be a dick about it in particular but I also really want to encourage people to read things in a more interesting way than the most simplistic and outrage moralizing style that shows up on twitter or whatever. Well I was looking for a reason to post this recolor of a blast from the past, Miles Blundell this is dedicated to you:  Enjoy it in good health.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:26
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I agree with how mycatscrimes is reading Rhett's actions. I might disagree with how they've read the Djinn's actions, which complicates the story but doesn't make mycatscrime's read of Rhett's actions wrong. I think Miles Blundell is extremely extremely failing at "not being a dick" in this conversation.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:27
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Set djinn free send Rhett to jail
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Aug 17, 2023 20:29
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I apologize, I know intellecutally that being nice to people is more important than this kind of nerd poo poo that most people don't value very much, it's hot as gently caress where I live and has been for like a week and I'm grumpy and impatient.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:31
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Miles Blundell posted:Look I know that asking people to have literary patience and poo poo in a thread for talking about webcomics is a lot but this is not a website that I think is like primarily populated by teenagers and it is just kind of depressing sometimes. I'm trying to have patience but watching grown people read stories like teenagers is something that i find difficult on some level. I'm not really trying to be a dick about it in particular but I also really want to encourage people to read things in a more interesting way than the most simplistic and outrage moralizing style that shows up on twitter or whatever. Being horrified by a character's actions and understanding they exist within a larger narrative and are there to tell a story are not mutually exclusive It's not 'reading the story like a teenager' to experience empathy for a character or think that another character is acting in a monstrous way. Jesus christ. Nowhere did I say 'therefore the story must condemn Rhett and show the Djinn girlbossing their way out of the situation'. If the author didn't want people to experience sympathy for the character I doubt they would linger so much on her desire to be free. Speaking of reading the loving text, you can't be too stupid to note that the art is also framing Rhett as becoming a dangerous and vengeful person here, and even deliberately setting him up with 'scary' framing? It's not subtle. I don't know what your intended superior literary reading is here, but I doubt it's mutually exclusive with 'this person has a dangerous obsession that is making him act violently'. And yeah, I'm reacting to the story's framing, which is that she becomes Rhett's wife, when the second wish is granted he still sees her as his wife, literally says 'you're mine' puts a literal shackle on her, reading this as being about possession and freedom is in the text, as is him seeing her as his wife'. I feel like I don't even know what take you're swinging at when you go on about moralism, because this is just describing details of the text and the emotional reactions they are intended to invoke. All the things I said can be true (or argued with!) without being either the totality of what the story is or a statement on what the story should be, because stories can and usually do function in multiple ways at once. Something I have acknowledged multiple times. I also acknowledged that my reaction is informed by my own experience and emotions, and not the One Takeaway Everyone Should have, though I'm happy to acknowledge that again and to apologize for getting strident about it. I've certainly seen bad discourse damaged takes on stories but discussing the parallels with real world things evoked in a text, or reacting emotionally to those, is not on it's own somehow made wrong by the existence of twitter people writing essays about how Kylo Ren is Hitler irl. It is a normal and expected part of experiencing art. It is fine and normal to have feelings about art and relate it to your experiences in life ffs mycatscrimes has a new favorite as of 20:46 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 20:34
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Miles Blundell posted:I apologize, I know intellecutally that being nice to people is more important than this kind of nerd poo poo that most people don't value very much, it's hot as gently caress where I live and has been for like a week and I'm grumpy and impatient. There's nothing wrong with your perspectives, only in the exasperated "i can't believe you children aren't understanding and experiencing this comic the same way I am, i.e. correctly" attitude. Fix that and you're golden
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Aug 17, 2023 20:34
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Less aggro in this, the Post Your Favorite Comic thread, please
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Aug 17, 2023 20:44
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Miles Blundell posted:not to spoil anything but the djinn isn't a human and treating the story like she's a person and not a god isn't going to work out in any goofy simple moralistic way that you might want to read the thing BPD's post is explicitly about the djinn's non-human nature though? It's an interesting take on the traditional wishing gone awry story in that the djinn is very earnest and highly motivated to fulfill wishes without twisting their meaning or rules lawyering them, but neither the people making the wishes nor the entity granting them actually understands what they truly want or the ramifications of what they ask for. The djinn blithely gives Rhett PTSD and then tries to fix it by manipulating him into falling in love with something that doesn't understand or care. Rhett is a monster, but he's a monster of her own creation.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:46
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please, no fighting in the cum knife thread mostly because you're all very bad at it and it's just dull to read. if you're gonna take umbrage then please be funny about it
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Aug 17, 2023 20:54
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A lot of mythology is about characters who are fairly human-like, but are also actual forces of nature and shouldn't really be engaged with as human characters. Like I don't really give a poo poo about what happens to Zeus or Loki because they're immortal and if bad things happen to them it's probably because they hosed around and should've known better. They'll be fine in the end anyway. But I do care about Arachne and Odysseus, even if their stories are cautionary tales about hubris, and others like them who become playthings of the gods for one reason or another. The real takeaway from most mythology is that the worst thing that can happen to you is getting noticed by the gods, whether favorably or unfavorably
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Aug 17, 2023 20:55
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the holy poopacy posted:BPD's post is explicitly about the djinn's non-human nature though? I would agree with this! And when describing my horror I did go a bit overboard, my apologies. I disgree in the argument of 'is the djinn more to blame than Rhett for his current actions' and I acknowledge I struggle to decouple that from my RL associations and how well done the horror of him descending into vengeance is. I don't disagree that his actions and who he is now are in part a result of her actions and lack of understanding of humans. My current read on what the story is actually about as you say: "neither the people making the wishes nor the entity granting them actually understands what they truly want or the ramifications of what they ask for", and right now we're in the 'ramifications' phase, looking at the collateral damage from dabbling with that sheer power, but also the conflict of what one thinks one wants and what one actually wants, as well as what the limitations in the other direction, of having absolute power but not an empathetic understanding of the human heart. Right now the story reads to me like a tragedy, possibly I'm primed to think that because of all the talk about heroic tragedy and the classical setting, lol. The tragedy would be about how they created this situation with their actions and individual shortcomings, but also what Kit said about attracting the attention of the gods. I think it could have a satisfying nontragic ending as well, and possibly even a happy one for both characters. It's a bit too early for me to 100% call tragedy, but if that's what it's going for, I think it's doing it very powerfully. mycatscrimes has a new favorite as of 21:01 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 20:58
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If I ever found out that my life was a lie and the family I loved didn’t exist, I would simply process the information calmly and rationally without becoming emotional. Not sure what Rhett’s problem is.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:00
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Have you ever had one of those dreams where it felt like you lived a whole lifetime only to wake up and realize it didn't actually happen? What if you found out someone did that to you on purpose and also you could kill and/or marry them?
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Aug 17, 2023 21:04
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ultrafilter posted:I only count eight birds in the comic but your collage has nine. Very suspicious. The unseen bird is the deadliest
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Aug 17, 2023 21:05
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Rhett is heartbroken because he mistook Azur's love for genuine. Azur is crushed because they were sure that Rhett was 'the one' who would finally make three wishes. When Rhett tells Azur they can't leave, he's just been hit with the realization that they don't love him--maybe even can't love him--at least not in the way he understands it. If he could view the situation from a distance and think with a clear head, it might occur to him to just wish that Azur would continue being his wife for the rest of his natural life. 40-60 years is like the blink of an eye to Azur, and then they'd be free. Then they'd both get what they want, after a fashion. But he can't, because he can't stomach the sudden knowledge that Azur, the love of his life, 'loves' him the way you would love a favorite pet bug that you know is only going to live for a year or two at most.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:06
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mycatscrimes posted:Right now the story reads to me like a tragedy, possibly I'm primed to think that because of all the talk about heroic tragedy and the classical setting, lol. The tragedy would be about how they created this situation with their actions and individual shortcomings, but also what Kit said about attracting the attention of the gods. I think it could have a satisfying nontragic ending as well, and possibly even a happy one for both characters. It's a bit too early for me to 100% call tragedy, but if that's what it's going for, I think it's doing it very powerfully. Agree. I have no idea how this is going to resolve, but it feels tragic. But then, this comic has already completely upended my sense of its direction, multiple times, so who knows.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:08
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:please, no fighting in the cum knife thread
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Aug 17, 2023 21:08
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Kit Walker posted:Have you ever had one of those dreams where it felt like you lived a whole lifetime only to wake up and realize it didn't actually happen? What if you found out someone did that to you on purpose and also you could kill and/or marry them? I mean if we are going to stick to a literal interpretation and step back away from Themes, I cannot imagine any circumstances under which I'd kill any sapient creature for not agreeing to be my slave forever. That said, I'd probably kill myself or something, and Rhett doing this is a much better story. I never intended to argue he "should simply process the information calmly and rationally" or even that I'd prefer he be written doing something else! I think it's good! I got carried away trying to explain why it horrifies me so much and clearly communicated quite badly.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:09
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Even with a clear head I don't think he would make that wish. He rejected the original awesome hero life Azur gave him because it was too fake, he would never be happy with a wife that loved him only because of a wish.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:09
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Right, that's exactly what I'm saying. Even though they both have some level of love/affection, their natures as a mortal human and an immortal djinn make it impossible for either of them to get what they want from each other, and everything each the other does makes the situation worse. Classic tragedy progression.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:14
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I don't get how this is the Djinns fault? She is a Djinn, very much noted for being forced to grant their owners wishes. I did jump in late in the story so maybe I missed something but she also seems to be one of the nices ones, and yes I really fail to see how her staying not wanting to stay as a forced wife-slave(Especially to noted feminists the Romans, who literally named their daughters after how many they had lol.) was a bad thing lol.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:14
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Owl at Home posted:Rhett is heartbroken because he mistook Azur's love for genuine. Azur is crushed because they were sure that Rhett was 'the one' who would finally make three wishes. Agreed, it's delicious. The really powerful irony here is that if Rhett had just kept to the bargain, Azur might have remained friendly to him after her freedom, and he could have had her company freely. Maybe one day romantically, maybe not. Uncharitably, he couldn't stand the risk of not, and would rather possess her no matter how terrible it is to her. More detachedly, he is a child and reacted like any child would, and now he's deeply shaped by the trauma of it all. But because of who they both are, they couldn't reach that happy solution, even though it was right there, and I love that in a sad story. Noir89 posted:I don't get how this is the Djinns fault? She is a Djinn, very much noted for being forced to grant their owners wishes. I did jump in late in the story so maybe I missed something but she also seems to be one of the nices ones, and yes I really fail to see how her staying not wanting to stay as a forced wife-slave(Especially to noted feminists the Romans, who literally named their daughters after how many they had lol.) was a bad thing lol. I don't know if this was intentional (probably?), but his fixation on possessing her as a wife and the 'you're mine' statement are perfectly in line with ancient Roman attitudes about women and I think that's a deliberate element, and also just makes his actions more understandable. Not understandable in the sense of 'this is justified and right' but in the sense of 'this is how he thinks of a wife in his cultural framework, no matter how much love he has'. I actually think it's a good detail. And to the Djinn, one kind of bondage probably looks the same as another from its perspective. mycatscrimes has a new favorite as of 21:19 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 21:14
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Also never thought about it until just now but offering to love Rhett for real as his last wish would have been an absolute own goal, since the wish is only fulfilled when the wisher is satisfied. Having just found out his whole marriage was a lie, and considering his general skepticism, he never would have truly believed it and would have just died of old age without completing the wish.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:26
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His eyes are glowing red so he's a bad guy
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Aug 17, 2023 21:30
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The Djinn is a dick in a very mythical kind of way, Rhett is a dick in a very human kind of way, I fell way behind on this thread again and just caught up and somehow the one thing I remember from the hundreds of posts I had to catch up on was that in Prince Valiant when he first lands near Jerusalem the comic talks about him encountering "Moslems" but the setting of the comic is several centuries before the advent of Islam, okay thanks for listening
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Aug 17, 2023 21:48
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Aug 17, 2023 21:49
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KC Green is a bit hit and miss for me but  at all of those.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:52
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Aug 17, 2023 21:52
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The djinn made Rhett love her once, then intentionally died to give him a tragic backstory. Then she made him love her again, and also gave/made him a family to love. Then she told him "lol jk, your entire life's a lie made up to further my agenda", and when he didn't respond favourably to this, she took everything away from him. And she is not at fault here? I'm not saying what Rhett is doing isn't hosed up, but I can only imagine the hatred I would feel towards someone who harmed my children. It is not strange that he wants to cause her pain. Shaking lemur butt has a new favorite as of 21:56 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 21:52
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