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Car Hater posted:I once had an exec pat himself on the back at a company event for getting through a tough year but not having to cut any salaries when I and 3 other people had been laid off 6 months prior, I just happened to be the one who came back. Everyone started looking at me and then back to him and having a sort of "uhhhh" moment before he corrected and went "oh right except for Car Hater, glad to have you back" but still didn't mention the other 3. Reminds me of a startup I worked for that was bragging during one of the town halls about how the new health insurance they got at the time was saving the company money, provided the same benefit, and had no increase in cost to any employees. But it actually did have an increase in cost for several people (like me). They just gave those of us impacted a raise to cover the cost difference, so that our take home pay was still the same, and they could say that it didn't impact anyone.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:00
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Good-Natured Filth posted:Reminds me of a startup I worked for that was bragging during one of the town halls about how the new health insurance they got at the time was saving the company money, provided the same benefit, and had no increase in cost to any employees. But it actually did have an increase in cost for several people (like me). They just gave those of us impacted a raise to cover the cost difference, so that our take home pay was still the same, and they could say that it didn't impact anyone. that seems fine, though?
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Aug 17, 2023 20:16
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Not a Children posted:I have bad ADD and this happens to me decently often. I find what helps me a TON in a situation like this is drafting an email asking for help from a coworker or supervisor. In it, I would describe the situation and what I've tried so far - sometimes pulling on the threads of those previous attempts while explaining your position to a position of authority leads to the solution. If it doesn't, you're asking for help after demonstrating that you've put some serious thought into it. I've heard this called rubber ducking. As in, you explain your problem to a literal rubber duck and the act of doing so helps you think about the problem.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:45
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Yeah that method works really well for me too, often I will think of the questions that they will ask like “have you tried x” and then preemptively try that out first.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:51
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Past three-ish years: “man this new simplified billing is great, the cloud is basically free!” Now: “HOLY poo poo WHY IS OUR INFRASTRUCTURE SO EXPENSIVE *multiple projects and efforts IN THE SAME ORG start spinning up to understand costs and make their own dashboards all of which are a top priority.*” Love it when marching orders make groups stand up redundant efforts all on the same thing because they want to be the people to solve the “problem”.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:16
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Omne posted:"Definitely not a layoff over the past few weeks as 10%+ of our people have left for one reason or another over the past month. Also, another 10%+ are leaving over the next few months." Quoting myself here, but they actually did admit it was another layoff, that's three rounds in eleven months. And three times hearing the CEO give the exact same speech: "It's my responsibility, these were good people, we were overly optimistic and so hiring overly aggressive." Except before this latest round, we were already lower in head count than when I joined.
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Aug 17, 2023 23:25
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Car Hater posted:Theory: It's not about pulling one over on the peons, preserving company morale, or lying to keep financial gain coming at all. It's what the executive brain believes about itself and the world that they filter through rose-colored glasses. Their reality is so buttoned up in neoliberalism that they literally cannot handle negative thoughts about themselves, their decisions, the state of the company or the economy etc. Nah. They just figure that the people who won't believe it won't believe it, and the people who do believe it will work all the harder for the lies. And, we're not even really people, so who cares? They know they're full of poo poo. They admit it in the filings.
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Aug 18, 2023 02:30
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skipdogg posted:Best advice I can give you I'll try to keep all that in mind. I'm not super worried about being laid off since we're a small but critical career field though I suppose it doesn't matter if someone thinks we should be on the chopping block. Also I've been trying to leave for a while so I wouldn't even be mad if I got the boot
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Aug 18, 2023 03:58
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Ah, my favorite outcome of interview panels! I brought in a new guy to potentially fill an operator/technician role on our floor team. He impressed me in my phone screening, but a well-practiced wallaby could do that if they kept their camera off. Gotta bring them in for more in-person stuff and to get the rest of the team's opinions, given we're such a small team relative to the work we do. So, in he comes for his in-person interviews, and I arrange for him to have 6x 30 min interviews, one "casual" lunch with three of the team, and then a close out Q&A with me where he can ask any questions he has after meeting everyone and learning more about the role. My boss says HIRE. My boss's boss says HIRE. I was thinking HIRE. Every person on the floor team who would be working with him says NO HIRE. A few say they're not sure he'll be a personality fit, and they all indicate that they think he's overqualified for the position and will get bored/leave. It's unusual for the floor crew to be this aligned against hiring someone. I think I'm going to listen to the floor crew who voted No Hire. I like the dude, but I'm not going to have to work with him for 7-8 hours a day like they will. They and my floor engineers feel like there's something about him that doesn't jive, so alas, off he goes. I'll just deal with my management's disagreement when they voice it to me.
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Aug 18, 2023 05:16
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SIX interviews?! I thought /r/recruitinghell was getting into stdh.txt territory with their constant stories of 4-5 interviews but that takes the cake. Why on earth do you need SIX interviews? e: oh lol the lunch is basically a seventh interview, good lord
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Aug 18, 2023 11:16
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I think that's pretty standard in the pharma industry and also in big tech. Really should be a law that if you take more than like 3 hours of a candidate's time you have to pay for it though.
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Aug 18, 2023 12:17
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I feel like its a bit unreasonable to expect me to have a handle on setting the budget for next year one month into the job however after 2 weeks of back and forth the right answer for the submission has turned out to be "make the number the same as last year" so that was more or less a waste of time. That's all a familiar process at least!Cael posted:Past three-ish years: “man this new simplified billing is great, the cloud is basically free!” This exact same thing happened at my old job. "Move to the cloud! It will reduce storage costs!" 6 months later "holy gently caress now the storage costs are directly attributable to the business unit, abort! Abort!".
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Aug 18, 2023 13:11
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I always get a little suspicious when people are like "this dudes vibes are off" because often that's code for isn't part of my in-group or is some kind of minority. If you can't back that with something concrete it's pretty suspicious. Six interviews for a floor op sounds a bit ridiculous to me but I don't work in pharma manufacturing.
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Aug 18, 2023 13:13
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I'm working on budgets, and I also have a mandate to keep it the same as last year. I took over a subscription on my corp card for someone who left the company earlier in the year. I asked my finance contact where the previous years budget was so it can be moved to my budget. They responded "Yes, I see you started expensing that in July." Gee thanks.
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Aug 18, 2023 13:17
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Omne posted:Quoting myself here, but they actually did admit it was another layoff, that's three rounds in eleven months. And three times hearing the CEO give the exact same speech: "It's my responsibility, these were good people, we were overly optimistic and so hiring overly aggressive." Except before this latest round, we were already lower in head count than when I joined. That's better than the CEO of my last company explaining the importance of "removing ticks from the dog"
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Aug 18, 2023 13:19
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"He is overqualified, he'll get bored" is a really bad reason not to hire someone. Make sure they actually want the job, but if they do and they are engaged having a high performer in a role is not at all a bad thing. Every time I've had a high performer who left after a shortish time, I've always been super happy with the time they've spent and usually it's an accelerator for the group. The rest of the team having concerns is definitely a red flag but you may want to investigate that more. Are they concerned a highly qualified guy will disrupt their comfortable routine? Do they think new guy will be competition? Are there other things they may be rejecting him for that they shouldn't be? I'd weigh the team's opinion heavily but also they'd know not to come to me saying "This guy is over qualified". In interview hell, I just hired a guy after he went through 6 interviews, but it was because he cycled through two other teams that said "I really like this guy, we need to find him a place, but he doesn't quite have the skill level we need". So each team did a phone screen + in person. That's an extraordinary situation though. I'd definitely call into question if a 6x30 is really useful vs just doing a panel interview for 90 minutes. I imagine in 6 different meetings you're repeating yourself for like 60% of the content.
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Aug 18, 2023 13:34
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"They're overqualified" coming from prospective peers can often mean "poo poo this person is gonna make us all look bad and the jig will be up" or "this person will definitely end up behind me in line next time RIF rolls around." But Sundae seems to think highly of his team. e: and you should also take your team seriously in this case insofar as there are plenty of people who talk up to (prospective) bosses and talk down to (prospective) cow orkers. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 13:52
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Eric the Mauve posted:"They're overqualified" coming from prospective peers can often mean "poo poo this person is gonna make us all look bad and the jig will be up" or "this person will definitely end up behind me in line next time RIF rolls around." But Sundae seems to think highly of his team. yeah for sure, it's good to listen to the team you just have to be aware of their various pitfalls and biases
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Aug 18, 2023 14:00
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To be fair, overruling his team after soliciting their opinion is terrible for morale, and it's setting the new person up for failure. The team either has a veto or they don't. If they don't, that should be made clear at the outset and they probably shouldn't be involved in the interview process.
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Aug 18, 2023 14:57
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I agree that "overqualified for position" is the worst.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:09
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It can also be a chance for the team to learn about interviewing. I worked at a place that was very democratic about interviews and took even junior people's input very seriously. But to do it you had to take specific training and they'd bounce you out if it seemed you weren't taking the work seriously. I learned a lot and everywhere I've gone since I've ended up leading interviews or being brought in by other leaders to help their teams. Has done almost nothing for my career or bottom line btw but so it goes.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:20
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I’ve been in pharma for >10 years and between 5-7 jobs I have never done more than 2 interviews. 6+ is tedious. Why?
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Aug 18, 2023 15:21
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Cacafuego posted:I’ve been in pharma for >10 years and between 5-7 jobs I have never done more than 2 interviews. some people really love dressing up
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Aug 18, 2023 15:28
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Cacafuego posted:I’ve been in pharma for >10 years and between 5-7 jobs I have never done more than 2 interviews. In a lot of tech companies it's felt that people with different expertise should interview on the different aspects of the position, and that panel interviews are bad. I disagree with the former. But I also don't think that interviews or leetcode or whatever are good predictors of a candidate's success if hired. Some people are so bad you can tell they either don't have the skills or have some massive personality defect, so it's a good sorting mechanism for that. Past that you just need to hire people and see if they can do the job and work with the team. This is why it used to be popular to have staffing firms and 3 month temp to perm contracts. Terrible experience as an employee, but I totally understand why employers would do it. I'm sure a lot of this is applicable to non-engineering positions as well, but that's not in my hiring experience.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:39
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My old workplace used to do day-long interviews where every hour the candidate would have to talk to a different group. I always got pulled into those even though I’m not a manager and wouldn’t be working directly with the person. It always felt like a giant waste of time not only for the candidate but also for 90% of the interviewers. I don’t want to have to think of questions, I barely even know what the job is
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Aug 18, 2023 15:39
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Deadite posted:My old workplace used to do day-long interviews where every hour the candidate would have to talk to a different group. I always got pulled into those even though I’m not a manager and wouldn’t be working directly with the person.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:40
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People complained about panel interviews taking up too much time so they started doing these rotating interviews which maybe save managers time but end up taking a whole day and involve explaining "So tell me what you did in your last position" a half dozen times.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:41
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I did one of those (interview days that is) for my first job when I was a graduate and I turned up absolutely off my tits on coffee and was hyper talkative with everyone for about the first hour and I think they thought I was a great communicator.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:43
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Eric the Mauve posted:
This is sort of what got me too. All the people above him liked him. All the people at/below did not. I would dig into it a little deeper with the floor crew if you could but it's very possible they're just subconsciously picking up on something without being able to articulate exactly what. Cacafuego posted:I’ve been in pharma for >10 years and between 5-7 jobs I have never done more than 2 interviews. Hello software engineer here. This is actually typical once you get beyond new grad hires for the industry, since there's typically a breadth of knowledge and skills you're interested in, and you want someone who can address several different things specifically, along with a general "is this person an rear end in a top hat or not" behavioral interview. I just recently did a round of 4 interviews, in addition to speaking to the hiring manager which is less an interview and more "is this person an rear end in a top hat / are they a good candidate for this specific role" to make sure you aren't being given someone who will just hate the job or who doesn't even understand what they're supposed to do. For floor operators, I'm guessing that once you work in the realm of "mistakes cost millions" it's a good idea to be really sure as well.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:46
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for consulting we have a roughly... 3 hour process for junior people plus a take home case assignment that takes a couple more hours senior people is a mess. takes forever. lots of people gotta sign off.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:04
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I also work in pharma and (as I moaned about before) just had 8 interviews for my new role at the same company, previous move was 11 interviews. One before that was 6 I think. It is clearly pretty stupid, but one benefit if it's a leadership position is the cross functional team has all met all the candidates and agrees that person A is someone they can work with. I've never had a test in a recruitment process, though it's not at all the same as a job in tech where you have to generate X amount of product. It weirded me out back in 2018 that this job is as much about me knowing stuff as doing stuff.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:14
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I’ve done a few all day interviews, and all went really well and was extremely surprised on a couple to not get a call back. It kind of sucks when you feel like you built a good rapport and get your hopes up but I know better now. One of them the CEO even said he’s have an offer for me within the week and then totally ghosted me and no one would call me back when I pinged them about it. Ah well bullet dodged there!
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Aug 18, 2023 16:17
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:I did one of those (interview days that is) for my first job when I was a graduate and I turned up absolutely off my tits on coffee and was hyper talkative with everyone for about the first hour and I think they thought I was a great communicator. Drinking triple your usual dose of coffee right before an interview is just common sense.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:20
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Eric the Mauve posted:Drinking triple your usual dose of coffee right before an interview is just common sense. "I'm very interested in this position. Also, I'm extremely interested in seeing your office bathrooms within the next 30 seconds."
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Aug 18, 2023 16:29
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Universally we have the phone screen, and then a number of interviews that are usually lined up next to each other for a half-ish day event. Technical, management, peer, fit. The number of interviews is related to field you're in and the level. If people don't want to work with you that's usually a bigger problem than technical capacity.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:30
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Trabant posted:"I'm very interested in this position. Also, I'm extremely interested in seeing your office bathrooms within the next 30 seconds." If your bladder can't take the pressure then you just ain't gonna make it in the marathon meetings we have here at BigCorp.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:39
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just gonna piss in a bottle while looking you dead in the eyes and telling you about the time I handled work-life balance in an interesting and effective way
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Aug 18, 2023 16:44
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From what I understand about coffee, it's not the bladder that's the blocker.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:47
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Pooping in a potted plant while giving a properly formatted STAR response is a power move. Doubly so if it's a fake plant.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:50
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Trabant posted:From what I understand about coffee, it's not the bladder that's the blocker. Post coffee: "My biggest blocker is about to give way, I'm going to step out just a moment so I can demonstrate leadership, be back in ten."
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Aug 18, 2023 17:12
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