|
I dominated the butcher with my rogue at level 14 and 23 and he was so terrified of me that he never showed up again for the next 40+ levels
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 19:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 06:13 |
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:I like the dueling narratives that Diablo is only for & also inaccessible to 'Casuals' this game puts on the training wheels for skills, abilities, and in the current state, seems to be meant to be played for 40 hours a season or less. in live service or "always online" standards, that's very casual. the devs have stated several times over that the intent is to be as casual friendly as they can to draw you into being a more mainstay player. it's not my fault they say these things and design this way Doomykins posted:It's not about abilities, The Butcher is a flat stat check. If you don't have sustain and synergies online because you didn't toss 10+ aspects onto a level 10 then he usually deletes new characters. A lot of builds don't even feel fluid until 50+. if you move slightly between attacks he basically never hits you, so this really is a skill issue
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 19:36
|
|
|
Melee or Ranged? I've heard of the pillar kiting but as a Barb I'm really just taking everything he's got with near hitscan accuracy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 19:39
|
|
|
either or. just run around his side if you're barb
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 19:41
|
|
|
if you stick to his left leg and stutter step around him he misses most attacks. some classes obviously have this easier than othersTonetta posted:this is the arpg for casuals just checking out the genre for the first time. there's one fight in the entire game that is challenging. the video also shows the butcher fight again at 16, and 27 or something like that. it's the same boring poo poo each time, which is the point, not that they died to it. butcher has less abilities than pudge from dota i saw that the poe equivalent boss has more attacks or whatever but i’m not sure it’s comparable. like i’m actually not sure. is that equivalent boss more akin to a story act boss like andariel who has a deeper set of abilities or are they more like, just another mob in a dungeon. butcher only has life leech, headbutt, charge, and hook i think. obviously most of that is ignored when doing the stutter step circling.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 20:01
|
|
|
Tonetta posted:this game puts on the training wheels for skills, abilities, and in the current state, seems to be meant to be played for 40 hours a season or less. in live service or "always online" standards, that's very casual. the devs have stated several times over that the intent is to be as casual friendly as they can to draw you into being a more mainstay player. it's not my fault they say these things and design this way Sorry, I didn't mean to trouble you for game analyses, I was just saying your gripes & groans are very silly & funny to read
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 20:02
|
|
|
harrygomm posted:if you stick to his left leg and stutter step around him he misses most attacks. some classes obviously have this easier than others it's one of the act 1 bosses, people typically hit it around level 10 +/- a level or two. it's tuned to be difficult and able to kill you, but it's not meant to be unkillable: every character is expected to kill it and move on in the story after all. people definitely aren't coming to that fight with a bunch of skills and mechanics unlocked, you're pretty much just manually dodging and spamming whatever skill you have. idk how comparable to d4 that fight even is since you are meant to be able to kill it, though idk what diablo really gains by throwing a majorly overtuned butcher at new players a bunch. it's good to scare players a bit with a taste of the dangers out there, but that can be done without spawning a hugely overtuned boss on them. tbh the bigger issue it points to is that early game balance is still way off given that some characters burn the butcher down easily at low levels and others get completely splatted
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 20:14
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:early game balance is still way off given that some characters burn the butcher down easily at low levels and others get completely splatted The downside to no training wheels
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 20:17
|
|
|
most coherent point to that video is pretty much that the class/build balance is a complete mess in a way that makes no game design sense
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 20:22
|
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:Sorry, I didn't mean to trouble you for game analyses, I was just saying your gripes & groans are very silly & funny to read Yeah and why can't you be more like them? Herstory Begins Now posted:it's one of the act 1 bosses, people typically hit it around level 10 +/- a level or two. it's tuned to be difficult and able to kill you, but it's not meant to be unkillable: every character is expected to kill it and move on in the story after all. people definitely aren't coming to that fight with a bunch of skills and mechanics unlocked, you're pretty much just manually dodging and spamming whatever skill you have. idk how comparable to d4 that fight even is since you are meant to be able to kill it, though idk what diablo really gains by throwing a majorly overtuned butcher at new players a bunch. it's good to scare players a bit with a taste of the dangers out there, but that can be done without spawning a hugely overtuned boss on them. tbh the bigger issue it points to is that early game balance is still way off given that some characters burn the butcher down easily at low levels and others get completely splatted The butcher is there because he was in Diablo 1. It's like walking around in Disneyland and you see Darth Vader and you go "oh my god it's Darth Vader" and then you spend hours waiting in line.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 20:28
|
|
|
GoGoGadgetChris posted:I like the dueling narratives that Diablo is only for & also inaccessible to 'Casuals' There’s a lot of inconsistency between systems in the game, and between things the developers say and do. “We don’t expect people to grind out level 100” but then the last ash reward on the season pass is tied to getting level 100. “We want to make many builds viable” but then having random multiplicative interactions that are essential for scaling into the late game. Pets do damage based on your weapon, but have their own attack speed. This isn’t how any other abilities in the game work. Ring of mendeln triggers damage instances when your pets attack, but is based on your characters damage. Overpower in general is in an absurd state — there’s basically no way from in game tooltips to discern what interacts with it. Many blood necro paragon boards provide additive bonuses to things that don’t interact with overpower damage, but a reasonable person might expect they would (eg damage while fortified). Are they trying to bait players into thinking things work as an axis of “skill”, do they not realize those things don’t interact, are they holdovers from a time when they did interact? Who knows! There are interactions in the game that don’t match tooltips, and aren’t consistent with how things work generally. For example aspect of grasping veins provides multiplicative damage to overpower attacks even though that’s not how crits otherwise work. This has been in the game since launch so maybe it’s not a bug? Another example is how the auto corpse skill necro heart works: it summons skeletons even though that ability isn’t tagged as a corpse skill. It stops using the skill when you have a full squad even though the ability still provides a potentially meaningful damage buff and healing for them. I don’t think anyone would’ve expected that is how the heart would work from reading the description. So in conclusion: yeah the game is made for and also inaccessible to casuals.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 20:41
|
|
|
Doomykins posted:I do think the Butcher is a wasted opportunity when he shows up so low that your build can't possibly be solid. There is a bit of merit to having him stomp your poo poo(except on HC) ? you dont play hc, but there is enormous merit to this. this is one of the coolest things in the game
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 20:42
|
|
|
Verviticus posted:? you dont play hc, but there is enormous merit to this. this is one of the coolest things in the game Agreed literally the most thrilling poo poo in this video game is that fucker showing up when he’s actually scary and dying is not just run back to the dungeon. With that said the upped drop rates on components for the elixir of death evasion make it kinda hard to lose a character beyond the very early levels. I’ve been casually pushing nightmare dungeons while leveling (97 now have only run dungeons at least 10 levels over my character since entering tier IV) and have had 100% uptime on them, and I have ingredients stashed to make 100 more still.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 20:48
|
|
|
yeah, they really shouldnt have made them so easy to make 
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 20:49
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:it's one of the act 1 bosses, people typically hit it around level 10 +/- a level or two. it's tuned to be difficult and able to kill you, but it's not meant to be unkillable: every character is expected to kill it and move on in the story after all. people definitely aren't coming to that fight with a bunch of skills and mechanics unlocked, you're pretty much just manually dodging and spamming whatever skill you have. idk how comparable to d4 that fight even is since you are meant to be able to kill it, though idk what diablo really gains by throwing a majorly overtuned butcher at new players a bunch. it's good to scare players a bit with a taste of the dangers out there, but that can be done without spawning a hugely overtuned boss on them. tbh the bigger issue it points to is that early game balance is still way off given that some characters burn the butcher down easily at low levels and others get completely splatted i think i’ll just have to sit down later and focus on the video. i didn’t get any of this from my first look, maybe that’s speaking to my biases Verviticus posted:yeah, they really shouldnt have made them so easy to make i could be crazy but i swear they used to take 5 crushed beast bones before and i saw it was only 4 last night. i don’t remember that being in patch notes, but then again i forget a lot of stuff. maybe they’ll tune that back when they add auto scroll of escape later?
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 20:56
|
|
|
Gave up on sorc and switched to barb pre-season, only hit 80s before the patch hit. Started a druid for season 1. Last 5 levels were a slog and I eventually stopped reading yellows, and then stopped picking them up, but at last it is done. Druid hit 100, season journey complete, scroll of amnesia obtained, and after a very fun ~2.5 months I am ready for a break from Diablo 4 9/10 just thrilled it was better than D3's launch, and ready to see what the next few years of updates do. I'm encouraged to remember neither D2 nor D3 had great itemization at launch, IMO it's a reasonable plan to layer in the infinite loot hunt over time. coelomate fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Aug 18, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 21:23
|
|
|
i think of all the silly and bad seasonal stuff, the scroll being a one-time obtain, one-time use item is the silliest.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 21:43
|
|
|
yeah the scroll thing seems like an intentional joke I'm probably going to make it to 100 and see if I can kill Lilith before dipping to play the PoE league. I have a pretty high grind tolerance for sure 80-96 has actually been pretty enjoyable with the paragon board really getting fleshed out. the slump for me was definitely 60-80, which seems like the case for most people. they'll need to tweak the scaling problems between WT3 and WT4, and uh you know maybe put the fuckin seasonal zones inside of NMDs next time
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 21:47
|
|
|
You guys are just grind monsters. Absolute ARPG throat goats.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 21:52
|
|
|
I finally found an acceptable 1H and OH to swap out the Cronestaff, and what a world of difference. Only got to test it a little bit just now, but trash mobs in T46 were taking 400k-600k on Barber tick and I was able to get WAY farther on Uber Lilith than on my eternal clvl100 rogue (which I feel is well geared - but obviously no Barber in eternal). Pretty happy getting this far as a clvl92, but I have no clue on how to read and deal with her one-shot attacks. I will try again next week when I hit clvl100 on the druid.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 21:58
|
|
|
Vic posted:You guys are just grind monsters. Absolute ARPG throat goats. I take PEDs (weed)
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 22:00
|
|
|
i’m just dumb as hell, i make no excuse
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 22:08
|
|
|
Jaytan posted:Agreed literally the most thrilling poo poo in this video game is that fucker showing up when he’s actually scary and dying is not just run back to the dungeon. Verviticus posted:? you dont play hc, but there is enormous merit to this. this is one of the coolest things in the game I love HC in these games! I meant literally you can't get killed by him or end of character, run or die is very fun and cool. Especially since he gets his snare shout and stun headbutt very early. I started seeing him use the hook toss from level 60+ on! Vic posted:You guys are just grind monsters. Absolute ARPG throat goats. Level 70 with 59 days to go, doing 2-6 paragon a day. The curve is gonna slow down a lot but my slow and steady daily play is a pretty tame grind.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 22:09
|
|
|
coelomate posted:
This is bizarre apologism for a major developer. They hosed this up in the previous 2 titles, so it’s ok they failed again. This is an EA game being sold as complete. I’m not a blizzard hater and I’m sure I’ll buy the expansion or pop back in in 6 months for season 3 but will be very skeptical of any more blizzard games.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 22:26
|
|
|
Is any game we don't like early access now? It has lost meaning. The vast majority of games release with way less content or with systems we don't like. Not an apologist, just a realist. People are quick to use trendy terms of the day
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 22:32
|
|
|
I will probably play seasonally for the next decade.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 22:35
|
|
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:Is any game we don't like early access now? It has lost meaning. yes, a lot of games are releasing as early access - even if they don't call it that. they have a lot less content, a number of systems not working / cut out, and people still buy them. if this game isn't a shining textbook example of one, i don't know what is. about the only thing that has worked since "release" without any errors is the real money shop. i'll prolly check it out again after a lot of time has passed and they maybe? hopefully? fixed a bunch of stuff which includes the real lovely itemization. right now, there's just better things to play honestly.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 22:51
|
|
|
harrygomm posted:i think i’ll just have to sit down later and focus on the video. i didn’t get any of this from my first look, maybe that’s speaking to my biases eh idk if I'd bother, it's a pretty throwaway video and I'm being kinda charitable in describing it as having a coherent message beyond 'lol blizzard sucks now' i also hate all the poe vs d4 stuff in general Zedsdeadbaby posted:Is any game we don't like early access now? It has lost meaning. d4 had a sprawling, unfocused, fairly unproductive development over a bunch of years and ~2 years ago they hired rod fergusson specifically to oversee the team taking what they had then and smooshing it into something they could ship. It's not really finished, idk if anyone would describe it that way and the fact that they're still talking about adding core endgame systems 3 months after release should make that pretty clear. WaPo reported on all of this at a couple of points in the development, particularly after the release date was decided when suddenly a bunch of employees felt like talking to journalists about the struggles of D4s development Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Aug 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2023 23:55
|
|
|
Doomykins posted:I do think the Butcher is a wasted opportunity when he shows up so low that your build can't possibly be solid. Feels like a pretty effective callback to D1, where you'd run into him on level 2 of the dungeon and get utterly pasted. Unless, that is, you knew that he couldn't open doors, got him stuck next to a grated window, and then spent 20 minutes plinking at him with a bow and occasionally porting to town to repair your weapon (or running the long way because TP scrolls were still a somewhat precious resource that early).
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 00:22
|
|
|
pseudanonymous posted:This is bizarre apologism for a major developer. I think it's pretty intentional. There are random item loot systems (rares) in all of D2/D3/D4, and the games released with players initially relying on those for endgame progression. Down the line, D2 and D3 shifted itemization towards unique/legendary/set items with fixed values to be chased. I predict D4 will do the same, and it's a coherent strategy: let the randomized item system do the heavy lifting at first, dial in the balance, and then introduce the wacky poo poo to break things, refresh the game, and draw players back.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 00:58
|
|
|
I'm playing pretty much a pure bear druid and I can't tell if my regular duo partner rogue just sucks at putting in damage or if killing mobs in this game is tediously long and boring. Like gently caress, it feels like I'm tanking even non-elite stuff for a long time while it very slowly gets burned down.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 01:42
|
|
|
pseudanonymous posted:This is bizarre apologism for a major developer. It's ok to like video games.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 01:45
|
|
|
as someone who followed d4's release not too closely but also didnt ignore it, i think diablo 4 is about 98% of what i thought it was gonna be. im sort of confused as to what people expected - not that wanting more or not liking the game is a bad thing, but i just dont think there have been too many major surprises. i think they've done a really poor job of post-game development and support, but non-indie developers are fundamentally arbitrary and theres never any real rhyme or reason to their actions
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 02:09
|
|
|
SlyFrog posted:I'm playing pretty much a pure bear druid and I can't tell if my regular duo partner rogue just sucks at putting in damage or if killing mobs in this game is tediously long and boring. By all means mobs and elites should be going splat quite quickly, though bosses can take a bit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 02:20
|
|
|
Verviticus posted:as someone who followed d4's release not too closely but also didnt ignore it, i think diablo 4 is about 98% of what i thought it was gonna be. im sort of confused as to what people expected - not that wanting more or not liking the game is a bad thing, but i just dont think there have been too many major surprises. i think they've done a really poor job of post-game development and support, but non-indie developers are fundamentally arbitrary and theres never any real rhyme or reason to their actions imo half the blowback is the cost, the added battlepass poo poo (additionally the battlepass auto-redeeming really did not earn them any good will) and just how little game there is relative to how high the price is. when people pay more, they expect more. the other half of the blowback is just that, no, the vast majority of people didn't follow d4's development and hadn't sought out people who had played the closed/endgame betas to learn about the issues with the endgame (and the rest of the game, for that matter). yeah if you followed development it was clear what the game was going to be, but if you went in expecting some of that old school ~blizz polish~ yeah you're probably going to feel like you got ripped off
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 02:24
|
|
|
i guess i assumed that when they did wc3: reforged, they stopped being the studio with ~blizzard polish~ and returned to being just a game studio, though i guess i cant expect everyone to feel that way but yeah ok thats a good summary
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 02:26
|
|
|
First reported shaco of the season dropped today. It's been about a month and IMO why bother having a set of items so rare that 99.999 percent of players will ever see one, and if they do it's only useful for 3 months at best. Really dumb game design and while I can appreciate rarity in an item, at this level it might as well not even be in the game. Calling this game early access is crazy, the first playthrough is easily 40 hours and a complete experience. If you thought endgame should be more at launch I agree but it's 2023 and lol if they aren't going to monetize the loop.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 04:03
|
|
|
chill out dweeb, chase items rule
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 04:08
|
|
|
WIFEY WATCHDOG posted:chill out dweeb, chase items rule Chase items you can't trade for, and with an average of 3 dropped per season. Yeah that's awesome.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 04:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 06:13 |
|
|
WIFEY WATCHDOG posted:chill out dweeb, chase items rule when they're realistically attainable, sure. but D2 already played this game with runes and the result was 99.9% of enigmas being cheated and blizzard revising drop rates.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2023 04:20
|
|
