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Now having reached the halfway point of DS9 myself, and having just recently gone through all of TNG for the first time, I definitely feel like DS9 is the more consistent show. It seems like I'm going pretty long stretches where every episode is at least solid, and the duds are pretty rare compared to most seasons of TNG. I also only had like 2 or 3 characters that I really loved in TNG, whereas DS9 has a bigger variety of characters that I look forward to seeing involved in storylines. Basically, Picard and Riker were enough to carry me through TNG on their own, but with DS9 there are 7 or 8 characters that I don't mind seeing featured in their own storylines/episodes.
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Aug 17, 2023 17:15
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Even when it's not explicitly trying (i.e. the final seasons) DS9 feels like much more of a "watch it all the way through" series, whereas TNG belongs much more to the classic syndicated TV model. Both great in their own way.
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Aug 17, 2023 19:44
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DS9 is harder to pick up at a random spot than others, part of why I've never actually seen the final few seasons start to finish
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Aug 17, 2023 22:39
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The later seasons are not very episodic so it's harder to get into, it's all heavy Dominion War plotlines. But they got the best late character development in those final seasons, especially Damar and Nog, they even created Vic, the greatest hologram before the Doctor showed up on VOY. The only huge letdown is Jadzia being replaced by Ezri, but even she gets some decent plotlines with what little time she's on screen.
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Aug 17, 2023 23:50
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jeeves posted:They’re all Carrie Fisher under there. All of them. Why did Carrie fisher suicide bomb earth during the dominion war? WHY CARRIE, WHY!!! Also a species of Carrie fishers would certainly not be the worst thing in the world. I mean by the end we were getting close to having a species of Jeffry Combs with the Weyoun and that was great. Sure as hell wouldn't of said no to a spices of Carries.
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Aug 18, 2023 00:01
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SlothfulCobra posted:His assessment of Cardassian society may also be inaccurate; in Chain of Command, Picard describes Cardassia as having some kind of peaceful and spiritual society before whatever cataclysm that led to Cardassia becoming a fascist autocracy. But Garak was raised to be proud of what Cardassian society was, even if he disagreed with some of the ways that was expressed. He is his father's son. Some of the more interesting fanon I've seen here has Cardassia as having originally been a Bajoran colony from that nonsense with the light-sail ships that can somehow go FTL, with that history lost somewhere along the way.
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Aug 18, 2023 00:13
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I got really high and started binging TOS last night: The Man Trap - a psychic salt vampire stalks the crew of the USS Enterprise. In the end, they decide to kill it rather than attempt to coexist with it. Charlie X - a psychic boy stalks the crew of the USS Enterprise. In the end, they decide to send the boy to live with god-like caretakers rather than attempt to coexist with him. Where No Man Has Gone Before - a psychic crew stalks the crew of the USS Enterprise. In the end, they decide to kill the crew rather than attempt to coexist with them. (I skipped The Naked Time as I watched it last week) The Enemy Within - an evil transporter clone of Captain Kirk stalks the crew of the USS Enterprise. In the end, they decide to coexist as a single entity rather than attempt to kill each other. I think the charm here is that the show is just a framing device for telling pulp science fiction stories and there's really no thought to internal consistency or canon. Technology and biology work the way they do from episode to episode simply because that's how they need to work. It probably has more in common with anthology shows like Love, Death and Robots at first than it does to modern Trek, and that's fine! I'm guessing at some point they start building up the world of Starfleet and the Federation and at that point there's really no going back to what the show started as. Anyway, it's a great show despite it being very dated. Yeomen Rand takes a lot of abuse in the first few episodes, both as a would-be damsel in distress, though she asserts herself quite well, and also as a target of casual workplace sexual harassment (how'd you like to have her as your own private yeoman!). But there are also other comments about men, women, and The Nature of Man in those first few episodes that give away the intrinsic values of the writers and creators. The show is obviously trying hard to be progressive, but it is still ultimately a product of its time and there really is no way around that.
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Aug 18, 2023 00:41
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Into TNG season 4 proper and Family is a very understandable chill out after the hectic opener. And it's reasonably well done drama, very charming. All the stuff on the sidelines with Worf's adoptive parents and Wesley's dad, very welcome. Slightly ruined by the unfortunate foreknowledge that the Picard family home is highly flammable. Eh, movie sucks, what can you do? Let's just enjoy Picard's big brother being ORNERY AS gently caress while he's not ablaze. More family stuff in Brothers, which is basically Brent Spiner Power Hour. We see him as plain old vanilla Data! We see him smirking it up as Lore! And most importantly, we see him as a sentient prune man, one of the craziest makeup jobs yet, even crazier than the dude with a nostril in the middle of his face. One plot point involves a sickly child right out of a 70s disaster movie who has the unfortunate name of "Willy Potts". I did like Lore's reaction to finding out the old coot is dying, it's a bit better than when he first appeared and was just EEEEEEEEEEEVIL. Then he just goes evil, we get a repeat of Lore pretending to be Data and the episode fizzles out. Oh well.
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Aug 18, 2023 00:47
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Basebf555 posted:Now having reached the halfway point of DS9 myself, and having just recently gone through all of TNG for the first time, I definitely feel like DS9 is the more consistent show. It seems like I'm going pretty long stretches where every episode is at least solid, and the duds are pretty rare compared to most seasons of TNG. I also only had like 2 or 3 characters that I really loved in TNG, whereas DS9 has a bigger variety of characters that I look forward to seeing involved in storylines. Basically, Picard and Riker were enough to carry me through TNG on their own, but with DS9 there are 7 or 8 characters that I don't mind seeing featured in their own storylines/episodes. I had already seen most of TNG S3-6 and much less of S7, so it is interesting to suddenly have a bunch of episodes that I have no familiarity with or even any idea of what they're about. Also while TNG's episodic nature is well established at this point, it is kind of weird to go from Data teaming up with Lore and trying to murder Geordi to him hanging out with the crew next week like nothing happened. Really feels like someone should have put a kill switch on Data at some point in the last 7 years, given all the times he's turned into a threat.
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Aug 18, 2023 00:53
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Don't worry, I'm sure they'll sort that out by, say, the third movie or so
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Aug 18, 2023 01:06
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Atlas Hugged posted:I got really high and started binging TOS last night: Yeah, the “canon” and essentially all the background of the setting with its history and tech and politics is very much assembled on the fly. If you’re up on the 90s era shows you’ll recognize flashes of its inspirations here and there, along with odd little “road not taken” moments, where TOS writers introduced notions that were just never taken up elsewhere. You can kind of see the universe come into being as they explore it, which is an attribute none of the other shows share. At the stage you’ve reached, you notice they don’t have the idea of the Federation or even Starfleet yet: Kirk thinks of himself as representing Earth and humanity before any galactic commonwealth. Probably the most important single episode for the future of the Trek setting is “Journey to Babel” which attempts to give a serious(ish. It’s still TOS) look at what the diplomacy between polite space nations of the day is like. But loads of episodes introduce interesting new elements to the world, even if they are otherwise bad.
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Aug 18, 2023 01:07
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Lord Hydronium posted:Really feels like someone should have put a kill switch on Data at some point in the last 7 years, given all the times he's turned into a threat. code:
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Aug 18, 2023 01:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRcKt4PP0yM&t=240s But really, who on the Enterprise hasn't been possessed or influenced at some point? Picard himself was made to walk in to a transporter and spread particles of his body out over the surrounding space.
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Aug 18, 2023 01:14
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I'm still laughing at Sulu's puppet flower. It was so obviously just a hand in a glove. Also, why did no one think to use that as a way to identify the salt vampire? Just march the crew past it until it freaks the gently caress out.
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Aug 18, 2023 01:24
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I'm having similar post-viewing thoughts about Brothers now and I'm doubly annoyed with it. They have a whole scene of Soong and Data talking and the subject turns to procreation and children and Data doesn't mention Lal at all! You'd think that'd come up, right? It was a pretty big thing and relevant to the discussion!
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Aug 18, 2023 06:37
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skasion posted:Probably the most important single episode for the future of the Trek setting is “Journey to Babel” which attempts to give a serious(ish. It’s still TOS) look at what the diplomacy between polite space nations of the day is like. But loads of episodes introduce interesting new elements to the world, even if they are otherwise bad. I'd nominate "The Menagerie" as well. It's a good episode and a money-saver because it let them reuse a whole bunch of "The Cage" footage... that also gets across that Kirk and the Enterprise are an important but small part of a grand organization, and establishes that the Enterprise had all sorts of adventures and discoveries before Kirk was captain. It sets the scale for the setting in a way no other TOS episode really gets into, especially not that early on.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:13
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I still think a retelling of "The Menagerie" would be a perfect way to conclude SNW when the time comes.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:33
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bull3964 posted:I still think a retelling of "The Menagerie" would be a perfect way to conclude SNW when the time comes. snw spoilers pike knows he's got some horrible fate coming to him in a few years but he doesn't know what, so yeah they're definitely setting something up
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Aug 18, 2023 15:37
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They also covered the Cage in Discovery so they might be able to use the same actors from that again.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:39
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bull3964 posted:I still think a retelling of "The Menagerie" would be a perfect way to conclude SNW when the time comes. This is such an obvious win that I wouldn’t be surprised if it was already (re)written and ready to drag out if/when they get the cancellation notice.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:49
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The thing is, on the surface it seems like a shameless nostalgia grab if they did it, but I don't really agree. The core of that story was Spock's loyalty and friendship beyond what we see between him and Kirk and I think it will hit with a lot more emotional resonance after seeing everything Spock and Pike experienced together.
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Aug 18, 2023 15:54
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Arivia posted:snw spoilers pike knows he's got some horrible fate coming to him in a few years but he doesn't know what, so yeah they're definitely setting something up Not quite. He actually has a pretty full understanding of what happens to him, both the disaster and the aftermath: "I know exactly how and when my life ends. And I didn't just see it; I felt it, every agonizing second." The memories of his post-accident self in the wheelchair bother him throughout season 1.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:04
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SlothfulCobra posted:
I just saw a reel on instagram where they talk about Harriet Tubman leading the Union Army to free slaves. At one point a slaveowner tells all his slaves to follow him into the woods to escape the Union Army, thinking they were loyal to him. They told him, yah buddy we'll be right behind you and as he ran into the woods was shocked, SHOCKED that the slaves abandoned him, he thought they understood he was giving him a good life or something. Point being, everyone's the hero in their own story.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:44
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disaster pastor posted:Not quite. He actually has a pretty full understanding of what happens to him, both the disaster and the aftermath: "I know exactly how and when my life ends. And I didn't just see it; I felt it, every agonizing second." The memories of his post-accident self in the wheelchair bother him throughout season 1. The thing is he only sees the beepy chair part. He doesn't know the "go live happily ever after on Talos IV with a hot babe and the scrotumhead guys" part also happens to him.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:54
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nine-gear crow posted:The thing is he only sees the beepy chair part. He doesn't know the "go live happily ever after on Talos IV with a hot babe and the scrotumhead guys" part also happens to him. Right. There's a bit of tension in that he's fully aware of all the horrible bits but doesn't know there's (kind of) a happily-ever-after following them.
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Aug 18, 2023 17:12
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disaster pastor posted:Right. There's a bit of tension in that he's fully aware of all the horrible bits but doesn't know there's (kind of) a happily-ever-after following them. I can see it now. Vina leads a newly restored Pike through a door, and suddenly they’re on the bridge of the Enterprise and all his friends are there - including Hemmer and whoever else has died along the way. Cue tearjerker music, end series.
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Aug 18, 2023 17:29
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HD DAD posted:I can see it now. Vina leads a newly restored Pike through a door, and suddenly they’re on the bridge of the Enterprise and all his friends are there - including Hemmer and whoever else has died along the way. Cue tearjerker music, end series. 
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Aug 18, 2023 17:32
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So, in the episode with the child-murdering utopia Pike bangs the alien lady, but a few episodes later we learn he's in a long-term relationship with Marie Batel. Do they have an open relationship, was he cheating, or had they not decided what the relationship between the characters was? In the pilot I thought she was his daughter or something.
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Aug 18, 2023 17:53
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thotsky posted:So, in the episode with the child-murdering utopia Pike bangs the alien lady, but a few episodes later we learn he's in a long-term relationship with Marie Batel. Do they have an open relationship, was he cheating, or had they not decided what the relationship between the characters was? In the pilot I thought she was his daughter or something. It's implied that (spoilering for the same reasons as above) their relationship is casual at the start of the show, at least somewhat because Pike is now very reluctant to have any more lasting relationships, and it's only as time goes on, and with some missteps, that they become more committed.
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Aug 18, 2023 18:20
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disaster pastor posted:Not quite. He actually has a pretty full understanding of what happens to him, both the disaster and the aftermath: "I know exactly how and when my life ends. And I didn't just see it; I felt it, every agonizing second." The memories of his post-accident self in the wheelchair bother him throughout season 1. Ah okay I only saw the LD crossover episode.
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Aug 18, 2023 18:25
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skasion posted:
I still always get this title confused with "The Way To Eden" so I always have to do a double take.
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Aug 18, 2023 18:35
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its really funny how much - as a kid - i hated the religion/prophets episodes in ds9 and now short of a couple sort of annoying ones in earlier seasons, they're by far and away some of the best payoff the show has to offer
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Aug 18, 2023 20:47
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Speaking of "Charlie X" - what happened to all the crewmembers he hosed up? Like this woman: 
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Aug 19, 2023 01:23
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Helvetica, tragic
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Aug 19, 2023 01:27
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The Thasians say they've returned everything to normal and fixed all the poo poo he did at the end.
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Aug 19, 2023 01:28
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Mister Kingdom posted:Speaking of "Charlie X" - what happened to all the crewmembers he hosed up? Somehow she became Charlie Kirk's grandmother.
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Aug 19, 2023 01:28
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They were unable to save the crew of the ship he popped though. They could only reset his alterations to reality itself, like sending Rand to a pocket dimension and turning the one girl into an iguana. Dead is apparently dead. Watched Mudd's Women, What Are Little Girls Made Of, and Miri last night. That certainly was a run.
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Aug 19, 2023 01:42
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That's a rough group of episodes
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Aug 19, 2023 01:47
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“What Are Little Girls Made Of” is so bad its good The other two are just bad
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Aug 19, 2023 01:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfgqP4M2XAs
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Aug 19, 2023 01:58
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