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Arrath
Apr 14, 2011


I do like that climbing even the tallest ladder doesn't faze the free move allowance, leaving Mouse with plenty of AP to spend blasting buckshot into a snipers back.

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a podcast for cats
Jun 22, 2005

Dogs reading from an artifact buried in the ruins of our civilization, "We were assholes- " and writing solemnly, "They were assholes."
Soiled Meat
Someone just quoted Alpha Centauri's Corazon Santiago in another thread.

That's a nod I didn't quote expect and did not even notice myself. Well done.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"
Ivan with a Commando running and gunning, mowing down seven guys in a turn is just amazing, the highlight of my 3x enemies playthrough.

The hardest part of 3x enemies is that there's so many RPG gunners that you can't stop them before they shoot and they will sometimes destroy quest items, including the blood sample in the old factory area.

Burns
May 10, 2008

a podcast for cats posted:

Someone just quoted Alpha Centauri's Corazon Santiago in another thread.

That's a nod I didn't quote expect and did not even notice myself. Well done.

What quote?

a podcast for cats
Jun 22, 2005

Dogs reading from an artifact buried in the ruins of our civilization, "We were assholes- " and writing solemnly, "They were assholes."
Soiled Meat

Burns posted:

What quote?

This one:

Coolguye posted:

Superior training and superior weaponry have, when taken together, a geometric effect on overall military strength. Well-trained, well-equipped troops can stand up to many more times their lesser brethren than linear arithmetic would seem to indicate.

~ Col. Corazon Santiago on Spartan Battle Manual

While playing JA3, I didn't realise that Corazon Santiago was also the name of the Spartan faction leader in Alpha Centauri. Which, when you think of it, is a very apt reference/easter egg/tribute for the JA3 devs to include - the game is contemporary with JA2, it's also a semi-forgotten cult classic and I'd hazard a guess that the playerbases would overlap somewhat.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

a podcast for cats posted:

This one:

While playing JA3, I didn't realise that Corazon Santiago was also the name of the Spartan faction leader in Alpha Centauri. Which, when you think of it, is a very apt reference/easter egg/tribute for the JA3 devs to include - the game is contemporary with JA2, it's also a semi-forgotten cult classic and I'd hazard a guess that the playerbases would overlap somewhat.

It's not a bad reference, especially when the troops you fight among hers tend to have a bunch of perks and the best armor and guns (well, galils aren't that good compared to the tip top rifles).

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone

Panzeh posted:

Ivan with a Commando running and gunning, mowing down seven guys in a turn is just amazing, the highlight of my 3x enemies playthrough.

The hardest part of 3x enemies is that there's so many RPG gunners that you can't stop them before they shoot and they will sometimes destroy quest items, including the blood sample in the old factory area.

The shorty assault rifles like the Commando and AKSU that are classified as SMGs seem a little better than the pistol caliber SMGs. I found the Uzi at least needed armor piercing ammo to stay competitive and even then it would take another burst to finish an enemy after Run and Gunning them. Next playthrough, I'm thinking of giving SMGs another chance with maybe Vicki and her flat damage bonus trait with fully modded guns.

Did anyone use the Glock 18? I fear it would run into the same issue I had with the Uzi's, with the further downside of Mobile Shot being a way less impressive attack ability than Run and Gun.

Canopus250
Feb 18, 2005

You guys are taking me along this time? Right? Wait Shaundi is going? This is bullshit man!

Is there a way to make good use of Tex or is he just cursed to suck pretty hard because of his stats/guns?

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe
You can get the mod that makes his guns better. Otherwise no, it's a pretty significant handicap even compared to other ambidextrous characters with pistols because his revolvers aren't even the best .44 handgun you can get.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

The Cheshire Cat posted:

You can get the mod that makes his guns better. Otherwise no, it's a pretty significant handicap even compared to other ambidextrous characters with pistols because his revolvers aren't even the best .44 handgun you can get.

Yeah unfortunately Rawhide Kobayashi is reliant on guns that aren't very good, and he'd be really hard to balance anyway.

Canopus250
Feb 18, 2005

You guys are taking me along this time? Right? Wait Shaundi is going? This is bullshit man!

Well drat, he seemed like a fun pick to finish my backup squad. What's the recommended mod that fixes his guns a bit? Between nexus and steam workshop I'm not sure.

Edit: Thanks, almost all of those adjustments seem to hit stuff that needs some help so I'll try it out

Canopus250 fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Aug 19, 2023

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe
The one I was thinking of was https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3009012331 which has a bunch of changes beyond just his guns so it might be more than you want. I'm not sure if there's one that just buffs his revolvers without touching anything else.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
Pfffff, gently caress the Mansion mission.

Finally made it through by putting two mercs on the spots next to the gap in the upper floor to keep the Machete Terminators from being able to leap over it. They ran up the stairs and kind of stood there confused.

Now I have almost no ammo left as no one dropped anything but rusty double barrel shotguns and .44 rounds.

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?
Time to start using only shotgun ambushes

RoyalScion
May 16, 2009
Feels like pistols should just have a really low AP cost or something, otherwise idk when you'd actually use them unless you were absolutely out of any other ammo besides .44

Or make it always a free action to swap to pistols

Dr_0ctag0n
Apr 25, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!

RoyalScion posted:

Feels like pistols should just have a really low AP cost or something, otherwise idk when you'd actually use them unless you were absolutely out of any other ammo besides .44

Or make it always a free action to swap to pistols

Yeah they seem to be completely useless by the time you get off tutorial island.

Fifty Farts
Dec 23, 2013

- Meticulously Researched
- Peer-reviewed

RoyalScion posted:

Feels like pistols should just have a really low AP cost or something, otherwise idk when you'd actually use them unless you were absolutely out of any other ammo besides .44

Or make it always a free action to swap to pistols

Free action to swap to them AND a low AP cost would make me use pistols at all (once you start replacing them with literally anything else). I don't even have them on my explosives guys (Barry, Larry, and Red, who should really be named Gary) because that's a slot that could be filled with more grenades (shaped charges).

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone
I'd like to see the devs rebalance assault rifles more than anything. In the current meta, the main reason I had for using assault rifles was to diversify my ammo usage among my squad and stretch out my supply. They always felt like second string weapons in that regard. To be fair, adding the grenade launcher mods gave them more punch, but it felt like the grenade launcher was the primary damage dealer and rifle fire was just good enough to do clean-up work on weakened enemies. I tried using the AR-15 with its higher crit chances, the AK74 with its higher penetration, and the G36 with its mix of damage, AP cost, and range, yet none of them really hit the spot as a decent, dedicated primary weapon.

Honestly, at this point I wouldn't mind if they just made burst fire deal full damage. Give the enemy the same buff since Legionaire/Army guy with assault rifle was my least feared enemy other than pistol wielding enemy.

Arrath
Apr 14, 2011


The MGL costs 4ap to fire??? That's absurd lol. Yeah just let Barry rip off half of a drum in a single turn and lay waste to an entire enemy column, nbd

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

Arrath posted:

The MGL costs 4ap to fire??? That's absurd lol. Yeah just let Barry rip off half of a drum in a single turn and lay waste to an entire enemy column, nbd

Yeah it is loving insane

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Arrath posted:

The MGL costs 4ap to fire??? That's absurd lol. Yeah just let Barry rip off half of a drum in a single turn and lay waste to an entire enemy column, nbd

yeah cumbersome is the only thing keeping it from being even more bonkers, that and limited ammo but it's possible to find an unlimited source of c4 to build more 40mm

full damage bursts would probably lead to even worse rocket tag than before, honestly the game probably needs to be less lethal in general, not more

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone
I've only gotten hit once by a rocket blast but I make sure to prioritize those enemies first so I wouldn't say I experienced much rocket spam in this game. For that matter, enemies I saw with MGL's were lobbing mostly flashbang rounds at me. So I wouldn't mind a buff in smarter explosive usage by the enemy either.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe
Rocket spam is a bit odd in the game because the enemies with rocket launches tend to be pretty stupid about using them and often blow themselves up trying to fire at you with an obstacle directly in front of them, but before the patch that adjusted misfire chance based on distance, they were very annoying if they had a clear line of fire since no matter how far away they were, that rocket was going to hit you. It was basically a guaranteed 30ish damage that would also wipe out whatever cover you were behind.

RoyalScion
May 16, 2009
I don’t mind combat bring lethal (was probably more lethal in JA2 even?) but not sure how it would pan out if stealth wasn’t so busted or the enemies didn’t always put their pants on their heads.

Lynx
Nov 4, 2009

Panzeh posted:

but it's possible to find an unlimited source of c4 to build more 40mm

Can you elaborate on this? C4 has always been in short supply for me,.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Lynx posted:

Can you elaborate on this? C4 has always been in short supply for me,.

If you solve the junkyard quest for the Queen, you'll have an operation to have mercs search the junkyard- one of the possible results is to get some c4 (this can also get you chips).

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Has there been any more word on future patches? They seemed to drop that 1.03 patch really soon after release, then radio silence since then.

Lynx
Nov 4, 2009

Panzeh posted:

If you solve the junkyard quest for the Queen, you'll have an operation to have mercs search the junkyard- one of the possible results is to get some c4 (this can also get you chips).

Gotcha, thanks. I think I did the junkyard operation once, so I didn't realize you could get stuff besides parts.

RoyalScion
May 16, 2009
They mentioned in the last livestream there should be another patch in August that also contains some more robust modding functionality, and then another patch later on for more modding stuff.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

malae fidei cum XI_XXVI_MMIX
A CRPG guy I'm subscribed to released a video on JA3 just before the weekend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak0zaM-AD4s

The gist is the game's fine but not exactly an upgrade over JA2 and rather a sidegrade. Thoughts?

I'm probably buying it next anyway just to get in on this just to support this subgenre, but whatever.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Vic posted:

A CRPG guy I'm subscribed to released a video on JA3 just before the weekend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak0zaM-AD4s

The gist is the game's fine but not exactly an upgrade over JA2 and rather a sidegrade. Thoughts?

I'm probably buying it next anyway just to get in on this just to support this subgenre, but whatever.

I watched the video before. What he says isn't wrong, so much as it's incomplete. I think some of it is also his preference for JA2's brand of cheese as opposed to JA3's. It's hard to talk too much further due to the video's emphasis on being spoiler-free. I find it to be mostly a straight upgrade over JA2, but that's because I thought JA2 was already itself a cartoon. This guy thinks JA2 was actually earnest and serious and i can see why he thinks that but mileage may vary.

I'm also someone who's finished the game 3 times and i don't know if he's even done yet.

Dr_0ctag0n
Apr 25, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!
I think when most people think of JA2 they're actually thinking of 1.13 mod and comparing a vanilla JA3 to a decades-long pet project by the community to improve literally everything about the original game.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep
Im on the minority here but I think JA2 1.13 mostly sucks. It started great, but it became a bloated mess over the years. I like vanilla much better (or even better: stracciatella, which is JA2 vanilla with a few fixes and QoL improvements)

Anyway, Ive been playing JA since the first one and I think JA3 is great and it is a proper modernization of the JA formula without watering it down or becoming a mere modern XCOM clone, and its very fun to play

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"
Also, there are some complaints about the UI that are very much a matter of milage varying. I play with an exact percentage mod on, and i think i prefer the UI to make it easier to see exactly what a thing will do as opposed to clicking the part of the body for that- it's less finicky. I kinda wish interacting with items wasn't such a challenge the same way.

Lima
Jun 17, 2012

Elias_Maluco posted:

Im on the minority here but I think JA2 1.13 mostly sucks. It started great, but it became a bloated mess over the years. I like vanilla much better (or even better: stracciatella, which is JA2 vanilla with a few fixes and QoL improvements)

Anyway, Ive been playing JA since the first one and I think JA3 is great and it is a proper modernization of the JA formula without watering it down or becoming a mere modern XCOM clone, and its very fun to play

I agree completely. I began JA with deadly games at lan parties in the late 90ies :v:
Any modding community will eventually turn their game into a misery simulator and 1.13 is very guilty of this.

It suonds like the reviewer just did Ernie island over and over for his 20 hours as his comments about lack of rpg elements and grittyness makes zero sense.
JA3 has a lot of reactivity and is plenty dark in several places. It's also 80ies monkeycheese but that's the actual triple-distilled DNA of any JA game, and the people that thinks JA should be Arma but isometric seems to have forgotten that.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Lima posted:

I agree completely. I began JA with deadly games at lan parties in the late 90ies :v:
Any modding community will eventually turn their game into a misery simulator and 1.13 is very guilty of this.

It suonds like the reviewer just did Ernie island over and over for his 20 hours as his comments about lack of rpg elements and grittyness makes zero sense.
JA3 has a lot of reactivity and is plenty dark in several places. It's also 80ies monkeycheese but that's the actual triple-distilled DNA of any JA game, and the people that thinks JA should be Arma but isometric seems to have forgotten that.

It's weird that the video that starts with one of the Diedranna slapping Elliot scenes is like "JA2 was a serious game".

Gameplay wise 3 really needs to balance the set of weapons and mods it has before they start trying to add 1.13 levels of bloat, but that won't happen. I think the game worked a lot better at 2-3x enemies.

One of the more understated elements of the game is that the devs didn't artificially restrict you very much- you can get 20 APs on a character, you can train as much as you like, you can even send more than one squad into a combat and have everyone available. It's really nice.

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?
Surviving that one church ambush because my entire two teams were just chilling there fixing up their stuff was really, really funny. The enemy didn't last a single turn.

Lima
Jun 17, 2012

Yeah few seems to take the time to understand and engage with the systems in the game before they pronounce "game bad".

It definitely needs a balance and bugfix pass, speaking of which:

Dr_0ctag0n
Apr 25, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!

dogstile posted:

Surviving that one church ambush because my entire two teams were just chilling there fixing up their stuff was really, really funny. The enemy didn't last a single turn.

Lol my experience was the opposite where I kept losing over and over until I realized one of my mercs had 10 pipe bombs I was hoarding and never used. It's amazing how useful they are when it only costs like 4AP to throw them.

I just had all of my mercs throw them around the church on turn one and hide in a cloud of smoke until turn two when they went off and shredded most the enemies.

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Lima
Jun 17, 2012

1.10 patch notes

Some highlights:
Mod editor
Active pause
Enemy weapon shipments that you can intercept for guns & ammo
Rework of how leadership influences travel time, to less of an impact
Many bugfixes, including the claustrophobia one.

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