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BiggerBoat posted:
The most well-known deviant... JESUS CHRIST! Can you believe, I heard he once espoused PAYING YOUR TAXES! ... Wait, when you say deviant, do you mean by normal-person standards or Evangelical standards?
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Aug 21, 2023 13:23
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It's important to clarify that 70% of GOP voters saying that Trump won the 2020 election doesn't actually mean they believe it. It's a shibboleth.
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Aug 21, 2023 14:01
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FlamingLiberal posted:The big problem is that none of Trump’s opponents can really attack Trump on anything without pissing off the same voters they are trying to get to support them Trump is vulnerable to attack and especially vulnerable to being attacked as a loser, in a primary where he had a dozen opponents gunning for him, he'd be mincemeat. Unfortunately he has a dozen opponents trying to ape his style and not offend his base and Chris Christie. DeSantis is such a deadweight he'll kill any chance of a potential real primary and will defend Trump's 2020 victory till the end.
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Aug 21, 2023 14:03
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Does someone need to post the picture of Ted Cruz? Everyone know the one. The Republican party belongs to Trump as long as he continues to draw breath, and probably a distressing amount of time afterwards too.
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Aug 21, 2023 14:11
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Randalor posted:The most well-known deviant... JESUS CHRIST! Can you believe, I heard he once espoused PAYING YOUR TAXES! I mean, he's got long hair, helped the poor, got arrested. They'd hate him for sure.
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Aug 21, 2023 14:11
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Clarste posted:I mean, he's got long hair, helped the poor, got arrested. They'd hate him for sure. Guy who denounces religious authorities for cozying up to a corrupt government for their own comfort and enrichment? Yeah, they'd be nailing him to that cross for sure.
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Aug 21, 2023 14:14
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DynamicSloth posted:Trump is vulnerable to attack and especially vulnerable to being attacked as a loser, in a primary where he had a dozen opponents gunning for him, he'd be mincemeat. Unfortunately he has a dozen opponents trying to ape his style and not offend his base and Chris Christie. The problem here is his base doesn’t think he lost, the election was stolen from him.
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Aug 21, 2023 15:08
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Bellmaker posted:The problem here is his base doesn’t think he lost, the election was stolen from him. If he couldn't stop it from being stolen when he was in power, how's he going to stop them from doing it again in 2024? Sounds like it's hopeless.
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Aug 21, 2023 15:16
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Morrow posted:It's important to clarify that 70% of GOP voters saying that Trump won the 2020 election doesn't actually mean they believe it. It's a shibboleth. I don't think there is a meaningful difference in this case. "True" belief or not doesn't matter when it doesn't affect their actions, speech, or voting patterns.
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Aug 21, 2023 15:23
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Charlz Guybon posted:If he couldn't stop it from being stolen when he was in power, how's he going to stop them from doing it again in 2024? Sounds like it's hopeless. What you're ignoring about the whole tribalism thing is that there is ALWAYS an excuse or some sort of cope that means it doesn't count when you lost. Russia hacked the election with their Super Saiyan Ultra Maga technology. The Deep State hid all of Trump's votes in The Swamp. There's always an excuse as to why it doesn't count against your team after a Loss if you're willing to make political alignment a majority part of your personality.
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Aug 21, 2023 15:30
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Is there any chance that DeSantis flaming out of this primary in spectacular fashion, revealing himself to be a cyborg completely lacking in human qualities, and the results of his campaign against "woke" and Disney will harm his political standing in Florida and create openings there?
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Aug 21, 2023 15:52
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i never considered desantis might be an eacaped animatronic seeking revenge on their creators, but i can't rule it out now
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Aug 21, 2023 15:57
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Zwabu posted:Is there any chance that DeSantis flaming out of this primary in spectacular fashion, revealing himself to be a cyborg completely lacking in human qualities, and the results of his campaign against "woke" and Disney will harm his political standing in Florida and create openings there? He's already term limited so it's unclear what his political future in Florida even is
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Aug 21, 2023 16:20
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the_steve posted:What you're ignoring about the whole tribalism thing is that there is ALWAYS an excuse or some sort of cope that means it doesn't count when you lost. Russia hacked the election with their Super Saiyan Ultra Maga technology. The Deep State hid all of Trump's votes in The Swamp. The insane thing about the MAGA insistence that the election was stolen is that the states that they claim were stolen had Republicans running the elections. Which means that they are really just mad that those election officials didn't cheat hard enough in Trump's favor.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:21
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BiggerBoat posted:Well...except for one well known deviant "Well, when the President does it, that means that it is not deviancy"
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Aug 21, 2023 16:31
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Zwabu posted:Is there any chance that DeSantis flaming out of this primary in spectacular fashion, revealing himself to be a cyborg completely lacking in human qualities, and the results of his campaign against "woke" and Disney will harm his political standing in Florida and create openings there? He's term-limited out anyway, he doesn't have to give a poo poo. He can't run for governor again until 2030, by which point all this stuff will be forgotten. It's unlikely that he's going to go for the Senate, either; the only FL Senate seat that's coming up for reelection after 2024 and before 2030 is Rubio's, and I doubt that's a fight he wants to pick.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:31
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MixMasterMalaria posted:"Well, when the President does it, that means that it is not deviancy" "The Republican President" you mean. Obviously a democrat is deviant simply by existing.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:50
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Clarste posted:"The Republican President" you mean. Obviously a democrat is deviant simply by existing. They're (slightly mis)quoting Richard Nixon, so yes 
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Aug 21, 2023 16:53
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Main Paineframe posted:He's term-limited out anyway, he doesn't have to give a poo poo. He can't run for governor again until 2030, by which point all this stuff will be forgotten. It's unlikely that he's going to go for the Senate, either; the only FL Senate seat that's coming up for reelection after 2024 and before 2030 is Rubio's, and I doubt that's a fight he wants to pick. He could pull a Rubio and drop out of the Presidential to run for Senate in 2024. Ron DeSantis against Rick Scott. What a lose lose loving situation that would be.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:53
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Gyges posted:He could pull a Rubio and drop out of the Presidential to run for Senate in 2024. Ron DeSantis against Rick Scott. What a lose lose loving situation that would be. Replacing Rick Scott with Desantis in the senate changes effectively nothing for anyone. Removing DeSantis as governor of Florida is a big win for millions. It'll never happen, but it is probably the best outcone.
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Aug 21, 2023 18:17
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Dubar posted:He's already term limited so it's unclear what his political future in Florida even is The new rumor seems to be that his wife Casey will run to replace him when he's termed out. Also on the shortlist for that primary is Matt Gaetz.
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Aug 21, 2023 19:15
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Trump’s bond in the Fulton County case is set at $200,000. https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1693712231165223116?s=46&t=BHs6Pl38GJXGN2Y4xeriNA
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Aug 21, 2023 21:03
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FlamingLiberal posted:Trump’s bond in the Fulton County case is set at $200,000. A perfect opportunity to show how bail is stupid. $200k dollars is %0.0002 of billion dollars? Will they charge a shoplifter that percentage? Is a RICO crime involving elections worse than shoplifting?
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Aug 21, 2023 21:12
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Jesus III posted:A perfect opportunity to show how bail is stupid. $200k dollars is %0.0002 of billion dollars? Will they charge a shoplifter that percentage? Is a RICO crime involving elections worse than shoplifting? Its not for poor people (trademark)
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Aug 21, 2023 21:16
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Jesus III posted:A perfect opportunity to show how bail is stupid. $200k dollars is %0.0002 of billion dollars? Will they charge a shoplifter that percentage? Is a RICO crime involving elections worse than shoplifting? lol anyone remotely nonwhite charged with a fraction of what Trump has been would be denied bail 100%
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Aug 21, 2023 21:31
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Jesus III posted:A perfect opportunity to show how bail is stupid. $200k dollars is %0.0002 of billion dollars? Will they charge a shoplifter that percentage? Is a RICO crime involving elections worse than shoplifting? tbf we don't know Trump's possessions vs. his debts, he might be a pauper
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Aug 21, 2023 21:37
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I feel like getting Donald Trump to give you $200K and you get to keep it is already a major accomplishment and personal defeat for him
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Aug 21, 2023 21:46
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The only important question about his bail is "What, precisely, happens in actual reality when he violates these terms?" Stuff like not using social media to threaten or reposting threats towards jurors? Go ask a deep sea fish to stop swimming, you'll have a better chance.
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Aug 21, 2023 21:47
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Jesus III posted:A perfect opportunity to show how bail is stupid. $200k dollars is %0.0002 of billion dollars? No it's not, it's 0.02%
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Aug 21, 2023 21:51
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Sorry, doing math high
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Aug 21, 2023 21:52
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haveblue posted:I feel like getting Donald Trump to give you $200K and you get to keep it is already a major accomplishment and personal defeat for him You know he’s going to bilk his rabid fans for it via mass fundraising emails.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:11
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bird food bathtub posted:The only important question about his bail is "What, precisely, happens in actual reality when he violates these terms?" Stuff like not using social media to threaten or reposting threats towards jurors? Go ask a deep sea fish to stop swimming, you'll have a better chance. I feel like as set up it’s inevitable the judge will have to address it. A recent and relevant precedent is Sam Bankman-Fried. In that sense, we’re about to find out if there is any gravity at all to the terms. And if there is not Trump will definitely dial up the temperature to find out where the real boundary is, much like my toddler does.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:12
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Yiggy posted:I feel like as set up it’s inevitable the judge will have to address it. A recent and relevant precedent is Sam Bankman-Fried. In that sense, we’re about to find out if there is any gravity at all to the terms. And if there is not Trump will definitely dial up the temperature to find out where the real boundary is, much like my toddler does. Bankman-Fried at least had a $250,000,000 bond. $200,000 bond for what Trump has been charged with is a loving joke.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:40
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Jaxyon posted:lol anyone remotely nonwhite charged with a fraction of what Trump has been would be denied bail 100% It's not the whiteness, it's the wealth and power. Anyone but a "billionaire"/high level politician would't get bail for most of his poo poo.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:46
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A bond isn’t supposed to be a punishment, it’s supposed to ensure they show up to stuff. As a concept it no longer even really works when you’re ultra-rich. And also it’s irrelevant to Trump. He’s the least likely to run dude in the world because he’s surrounded by secret service and couldn’t just peace out to wherever tomorrow.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:49
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Angry_Ed posted:Bankman-Fried at least had a $250,000,000 bond. $200,000 bond for what Trump has been charged with is a loving joke. That is enlightening and an excellent point I overlooked. I think I was more so thinking about SBF violating his terms and being remitted into custody. Which I see as the ideal for Trump’s situation.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:50
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:A bond isn’t supposed to be a punishment, it’s supposed to ensure they show up to stuff. As a concept it no longer even really works when you’re ultra-rich. And also it’s irrelevant to Trump. He’s the least likely to run dude in the world because he’s surrounded by secret service and couldn’t just peace out to wherever tomorrow. Isn’t it also supposed to be technically affordable
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Aug 21, 2023 22:53
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Tiny Timbs posted:Isn’t it also supposed to be technically affordable Not really. It`s just supposed to be proportional to the defendant`s flight risk, the severity of the alleged crimes, and the potential danger the defendant poses. If bail had to be affordable, bail bond companies wouldn`t exist, since their entire buisness model depends on people who can`t pay their bail existing.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:58
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Angry_Ed posted:Bankman-Fried at least had a $250,000,000 bond. $200,000 bond for what Trump has been charged with is a loving joke. Bail isn't a punishment for crimes, it's an incentive to show up in court. Bankman-Fried lived in the Bahamas full-time, and had a massive stockpile of highly portable and difficult-to-trace funds he'd gotten by embezzling from the Tiny Timbs posted:Isn’t it also supposed to be technically affordable Ideally, it's supposed to be an amount that'd suck to lose (so you want it back badly enough to not skip bail) but not an amount you literally can't pay (because if the court doesn't think you should be out on bail, it has the ability to just deny bail), adjusted by how likely you are to skip bail or commit more crimes while on bail. There's plenty of practical issues that lead to these principles not always being applied consistently or objectively, of course, but that's how it's supposed to work. A lot of the time, unaffordable bails are the result of overloaded court systems with little interest in petty misdemeanors and minor felonies not really paying any attention to the specific circumstances of the case and just grabbing a number off a chart of predetermined recommended bail amounts for various charges, maybe with a multiplier based on the results of an automated flight risk calculator. What you're probably thinking about is the Eighth Amendment. While it's most known for banning "cruel and unusual punishment", the text also expressly prohibits "excessive bail". Of course, it doesn't lay out specific conditions for what's considered "excessive", so it's up to the courts. Existing Supreme Court precedent says that "a defendant's bail cannot be set higher than an amount that is reasonably likely to ensure the defendant's presence at the trial", but federal courts have never really tackled how this applies to people at the very bottom of the affordability scale. In practice, it mostly means that if a court imposes a higher bail than a crime would usually face, they'd better drat well be ready to justify it.
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Aug 21, 2023 23:25
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Yeah SBF is pretty well set to leave the country and disappear, and he's also arguably a bigger criminal and bigger idiot about that kinda stuff than Trump. We have also had documented cases of bitcoin con-artists disappearing into thin air.
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Aug 21, 2023 23:37
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