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Nice, now I just need to wait to see a mega-LP of both games.
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Aug 22, 2023 13:05
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Six ages part 2 is absolutely nuts. It takes place during the end of the great darkness. Not the parts where everything gets slowly worse, but the full bore "the spike has exploded, wakboth marshals his armies, orlanth and ernalda are dead, oh god oh man" part. In fact, one of the clan creation choices? How long until the world ends. Events have stuff like happy chaos people made out of random limbs telling you that they can help the sun shine on your crops again if you just worship their chaos god. You can invent new heroquests out of utter desperation, including one that gives birth to babeester gor via kicking the absolute poo poo out of a chaos god. Wakboth himself can just show up and cause trouble for you personally, like taking a nap in front of a river, incidentally flooding you. Or just straight up stepping on your stuff like an rear end. Also the devs have staked out their position on the elmal/yelmalio thing. 
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Aug 22, 2023 16:52
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NewMars posted:Six ages part 2 is absolutely nuts. It takes place during the end of the great darkness. Not the parts where everything gets slowly worse, but the full bore "the spike has exploded, wakboth marshals his armies, orlanth and ernalda are dead, oh god oh man" part. In fact, one of the clan creation choices? How long until the world ends. Events have stuff like happy chaos people made out of random limbs telling you that they can help the sun shine on your crops again if you just worship their chaos god. You can invent new heroquests out of utter desperation, including one that gives birth to babeester gor via kicking the absolute poo poo out of a chaos god. Wakboth himself can just show up and cause trouble for you personally, like taking a nap in front of a river, incidentally flooding you. Or just straight up stepping on your stuff like an rear end. you can actually get a different version of this same event where instead of saying that Antirius/Little Yelm/Yelmalio is close kin to your Elmal, the Dara Happans can straight up just call your Elmal tribe Yelmalio worshippers. So evidently the merger was already happening, if only for some. There's lots of fun little details like that, like your tricksters now being called eurmali but if you look at their art they're still doing Raven rites to at least some degree. ZeroCount fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Aug 23, 2023 |
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Aug 23, 2023 12:04
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The canon rulebooks closed it a while ago, explaning that some guy quested to the disparate tribes with proof that Elmal was always Yelmalio. There's a nod to the Elmal grogs somewhere too, saying you can be part of one of the few groups who claim he is only Elmal.
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Aug 26, 2023 08:09
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"Some guy quested to the disparate tribes with proof that Elmal was always Yelmalio" is the origin of Elmal, that's the first time Greg wrote about the Orlanthi having a sun god.
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Aug 26, 2023 09:04
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It's also worth noting that the gloranthan opinion on the idea of canon is that it isn't something that exists and in fact, different gloranthan products have always had some level of deliberate contradictions in both text and art (see: the mostali, whoa).
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Aug 26, 2023 09:53
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The Guide to Glorantha depiction of the various dwarf subspecies is the only canon one in my book (gold dwarves being the only remotely human-looking ones because they were engineered to serve as diplomats)
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Aug 26, 2023 10:33
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Herman Merman posted:The Guide to Glorantha depiction of the various dwarf subspecies is the only canon one in my book (gold dwarves being the only remotely human-looking ones because they were engineered to serve as diplomats) Note: This is just a page over from a depiction of them as ordinary looking short guys in renaissance-era clothing.
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Aug 26, 2023 11:07
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NewMars posted:Note: This is just a page over from a depiction of them as ordinary looking short guys in renaissance-era clothing. Isn't that just the modern dwarves where the metals are just castes rather than utterly different peoples who just work together though?
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Aug 26, 2023 13:00
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Moonwolf posted:Isn't that just the modern dwarves where the metals are just castes rather than utterly different peoples who just work together though? Nope. Like I said, the art style and the way things work in universe are not consistent things, Glorantha is intentionally a setting that has multiple different interpretations.  This guy.  Is the same as the guy on the bottom left there, a gold-caste dwarf. These artworks are not in different books, they are in the guide. They are in fact, literally one page apart. There is no single Glorantha, only different people's versions of the setting.
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Aug 26, 2023 13:55
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There are limits: for example, there does not exist a glorantha where the mostali aren't dicks
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Aug 26, 2023 17:12
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I feel like that kind of summarizes my beef with a lot of recent Glorantha material: that it treats stuff people say about the world as objectively factual rather than reflecting some kind of ideological or political reality, and winds up presenting a complex situation ("the Solar Pantheon followers are trying to fold Storm Pantheon gods into their model") as having a simple solution ("and they're right!") that kind of gives me the impression that they just never noticed the subtext. See also: Moonson being a useless sybarite.
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Aug 26, 2023 18:14
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Rand Brittain posted:I feel like that kind of summarizes my beef with a lot of recent Glorantha material: that it treats stuff people say about the world as objectively factual rather than reflecting some kind of ideological or political reality, and winds up presenting a complex situation ("the Solar Pantheon followers are trying to fold Storm Pantheon gods into their model") as having a simple solution ("and they're right!") that kind of gives me the impression that they just never noticed the subtext. I was grumpy about the latest Runequest switching Lhankor Mhy's runes from Law and Truth to Truth and Stasis, but maybe it speaks to this broader understanding about how the facts operate in the world. Still grumpy, though, just for a bigger reason. Given that the world is radically different based on something like what you think of the Lunar Empire and the Red Goddess (which aren't exactly the same thing), I'm a bit shocked at this attitude. It isn't a simple matter of saying either the Red Goddess is Gbaji 3.0 and is trying to hurl the entire world into Chaos by exploiting Arkati experimental heroquesting and operating outside the framework of the Great Compromise, OR she's found a way to incorporate Chaos into the world, which is exactly the thing that happened with Air, and with Sky, and with Earth, and with Water, and maybe even with Darkness, and of course the most recent group to immigrate to Glorantha and get integrated is the group most opposed to letting these foreigners in.
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Aug 26, 2023 19:22
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Narsham posted:I was grumpy about the latest Runequest switching Lhankor Mhy's runes from Law and Truth to Truth and Stasis, but maybe it speaks to this broader understanding about how the facts operate in the world. The Lhankor Mhy thing bothered me to, but apparently those are the rune's he's always had in Runequest, while the Heroquest era stuff went with Law and Truth instead.
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Aug 26, 2023 20:01
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Gorelab posted:The Lhankor Mhy thing bothered me to, but apparently those are the rune's he's always had in Runequest, while the Heroquest era stuff went with Law and Truth instead. Heroquest gives him Law because that 's how HQ does sorcery mechanically (spells are in books, and each book is a sub-ability of your Law rune) and he's how Orlanthi do sorcery (even though they insist it isn't sorcery.) I think Law is a better fit for him, though.
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Aug 26, 2023 20:32
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He can have law if he wants but as a minor rune, I've always felt his main are truth/stasis. Of course if he has law he's probably just the result of the Orlanthi meeting Zzabur once. Which I'm not opposed to. In my group's session my character just heroquested as him and proved that he was a traitorous former adviser to the Talar of Wendaria, YarGan; from which he took the name BuSerYarGan->Buseryan.
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Aug 26, 2023 21:18
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Gorelab posted:The Lhankor Mhy thing bothered me to, but apparently those are the rune's he's always had in Runequest, while the Heroquest era stuff went with Law and Truth instead. RQ 3 (the Avalon Hill joint) has Lhankor Mhy with Truth and Law. (I double-checked my copy of Gods of Glorantha before posting). I don't know about RQ 2 or RQ 1.
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Aug 26, 2023 22:41
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RQ1 has him with Truth and Law. RQ2 has him with Truth and Stasis, but he's basically an Illuminate about it, in that while the Truth is unchanging, you learn different things depending on which direction you look at it. So, in a moving world, Stasis also moves, and Movement is also Stasis.
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Aug 26, 2023 23:35
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He's never felt particularly statis-y to me, if one would insist it seems really more like law as one of his big two and statis as minor
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Aug 26, 2023 23:38
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Yeah, he's never been very static in how he is. At least from my experiences.
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Aug 27, 2023 05:14
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Stasis has always been a little weird in that the name of the Rune kind of adopts the most negative take on the concept possible, like if the Air Rune was actually called "Rebellion".
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Aug 27, 2023 05:18
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Tulip posted:There are limits: for example, there does not exist a glorantha where the mostali aren't dicks Even this can be untrue! In six ages: lights going out they are directly responsible for helping you survive the end of the world, even though you enslaved them and forced them to build your fortress. And then they go and bring you to the unity battle after helping you rebuild! Just standup guys, really.
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Aug 27, 2023 05:40
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Rand Brittain posted:Stasis has always been a little weird in that the name of the Rune kind of adopts the most negative take on the concept possible, like if the Air Rune was actually called "Rebellion". glorantha's always had an unfair orlanthi slant (praise be to moonson)
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Aug 27, 2023 06:43
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Didn't the Mostali build a couple of windmills or Waterwheels for people, something like that?
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Aug 27, 2023 07:28
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Vadun posted:Didn't the Mostali build a couple of windmills or Waterwheels for people, something like that? I believe it was mentioned that Zzabur used them to build windmills to fuel the heat of his people during the glacier age, somewhere...
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Aug 27, 2023 16:02
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Rand Brittain posted:Stasis has always been a little weird in that the name of the Rune kind of adopts the most negative take on the concept possible, like if the Air Rune was actually called "Rebellion". Not... really? "The most negative take on the concept" would be like, stagnation. Statis is honestly a pretty fair word to use where yeah it kinda makes you think of stagnation but it also kinda makes you think of like, stability.
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Aug 27, 2023 19:28
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reignonyourparade posted:Not... really? "The most negative take on the concept" would be like, stagnation. Statis is honestly a pretty fair word to use where yeah it kinda makes you think of stagnation but it also kinda makes you think of like, stability. I mean I definitely have "stasis" as a kind of negative thing, and I think "stability rune" would be a more neutral phrasing, but I've always kind of read the decision to call it a "stasis rune" as a sort of pro-orlanth political decision in the texts we're most familiar with. Like the excessive stability of Yelm is kind of his flaw and why Orlanth was so heroic for standing up to him and that's the conflict between Motion and Stasis and so much of what we read about Glorantha comes from an Orlanthi/pro-Orlanthi standpoint that yeah its easy to see the Stasis rune as just kind of poo poo.
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Aug 27, 2023 19:48
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It can also be difficult to figure out what you can do with a stasis run, to be frank. One of the more common things it's aligned to is actually just building walls and things, which makes sense, but also is far from the first thing to come to mind.
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Aug 27, 2023 21:18
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NewMars posted:It can also be difficult to figure out what you can do with a stasis run, to be frank. One of the more common things it's aligned to is actually just building walls and things, which makes sense, but also is far from the first thing to come to mind. Pretty important rune if you want to operate a vault or other secure location where valuables can be kept without going for a walk. If more people had access to dwarf weapons like grenades and other explosives, the stasis rune is the rune of "this thing doesn't spontaneously explode in my pack setting off all the other explosives I was carrying" and probably also features prominently in things like fuses. If you live underground, stasis helps keep your dwelling-place from collapsing. And I expect it's important in resisting Chaos mutations and infestations, which isn't a strength of the Wind pantheon, which is more about killing them off after they develop. And if we're being more Western, the stasis rune is your best bet if you want to live forever.
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Aug 27, 2023 21:41
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Tulip posted:I mean I definitely have "stasis" as a kind of negative thing, and I think "stability rune" would be a more neutral phrasing, but I've always kind of read the decision to call it a "stasis rune" as a sort of pro-orlanth political decision in the texts we're most familiar with. Like the excessive stability of Yelm is kind of his flaw and why Orlanth was so heroic for standing up to him and that's the conflict between Motion and Stasis and so much of what we read about Glorantha comes from an Orlanthi/pro-Orlanthi standpoint that yeah its easy to see the Stasis rune as just kind of poo poo. Yeah I just think that says more about you than about the terminology. Which is separate from saying it says bad things about you, just that it seems like a rorschach test sort of deal more than anything else.
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Aug 28, 2023 00:14
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reignonyourparade posted:Yeah I just think that says more about you than about the terminology. Which is separate from saying it says bad things about you, just that it seems like a rorschach test sort of deal more than anything else. Right. TBH I figured it was probably not just me but my general cultural upbringing that has a bias that "stability" is situationally good and "stasis" is generally bad, because I'm a 21st century American and we have a lot of self-mythologizing about the importance of dynamism and growth and just general forward momentum as being virtuous in and of themselves. But it is absolutely a bias of connotation rather than an absolute statement about metaphysics. Though going in the other direction, I do see why "stasis" would be...unappealing for a player in a game. Cuz as NewMars said, what do you do with it. And the answer is, in a way, you don't. A lot of the virtue of the Stasis run to both the Mostali myths and Yelm myths is that things were already great and that changing things, doing things, made things worse. Which is one thing to believe about the continuous operation of a society/world you live in for centuries (especially when you're talking about/inventing a mythology where Your Ancestors were the best for 100,000 years), but when you're trying to be an active player in a game, or just make a character or story where things happen, kind of harder to make use of.
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Aug 28, 2023 00:23
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I'm not a RQ buff, even though I have played it before for a little bit, but from what I saw there are some runes that never see play. Stormbull's Eternal Battle Rune is supposed to be a more niche rune, right? Well, for the players in my group it was much more used than stasis or most others. Runes are imbalanced. Buff please
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Aug 28, 2023 01:08
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The runes are imbalanced because the Invisible God is a HACK DEMIURGE and we need to return to IRENSAVAL.
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Aug 28, 2023 03:56
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Nanomashoes posted:The runes are imbalanced because the Invisible God is a HACK DEMIURGE and we need to return to IRENSAVAL. The Invisible God is blameless! It's all the fault of Makan, that hack demiurge!
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Aug 28, 2023 06:02
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wiegieman posted:The Invisible God is blameless! It's all the fault of Makan, that hack demiurge! If we merely listen to the precepts of sage Rokar, we can see that the proper way to restore the runes to balance is to cut out everything from the abiding book that could be used to argue for social mobility and the rights of women. (The rokari are more complicated than this, but damned if the people who write glorantha don't want them to be, sometimes.)
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Aug 28, 2023 15:53
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How has the difference between Elmal and Yelmalio been depicted in different rules? I know that Elmal is sometimes depicted with fire powers and other times he only has light, while Yelmalio seems to consistently only have light but sometimes can summon fire elementals to make up for that.
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Aug 29, 2023 20:03
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White Coke posted:How has the difference between Elmal and Yelmalio been depicted in different rules? I know that Elmal is sometimes depicted with fire powers and other times he only has light, while Yelmalio seems to consistently only have light but sometimes can summon fire elementals to make up for that. In runequest, Yelmalio is Elmal, period. In Heroquest, Elmal has fire powers and defensive powers while also giving you horse powers too, while Yelmalio is a god of light and endurance, granting you the battle magic of a footsoldier pike phalanx.
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Sep 1, 2023 00:53
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Yelmalio is the lingering light of Yelm, the persisting strength of the Solar pantheon who comes forth to protect Yelm's people in times of deprivation. He's often theorized to be another name for Antirius or Lightfore. Jeff Richard doesn't like Elmal, and has made a point of saying repeatedly that Elmal is just an Orlanthi corruption of Yelmalio, Elmal worship faded away once the Elmali were shown that Yelmalio was who their god really was, etc. I find it funny to point out that the people of Nivorah were cursed to have the name of their god be forgotten by the Emperor of the time. In Heroquest terms, Yelmalio is <Light> <Stasis> <Truth>, while Elmal is <Sun> <Movement> <Truth>. Aside from their different runes, Yelmalio gives geases that can be followed for increased power and teaches various phalanx tricks, whereas Elmal is part of the storm tribe and has access to associate magic from it while teaching cavalry magic, but both are powerful defenders. Elmal mostly comes up in A-Sharp's work on KoDP, Six Ages, and Six Ages 2. In case you didn't pick up on it, I'm an Elmal supporter who thinks that homogenizing the Orlanthi sun god into the Solar frontier god is lame (especially if you're doing it because you think computer games are Not Invented Here.)
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Sep 1, 2023 01:07
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Yelmalio also loving sucks mechanically in Runequest. His biggest spells are catseye and light wall, which are only really useful for fighting trolls. He doesn't even get Shield, despite being famed for his endurance. If you want a formation fighting god, Polestar is way better.
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Sep 1, 2023 01:30
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If nothing else I feel like his "it's definitely 100% the yelmalions that are right" really goes against the spirit of the setting (personally In My Glorantha Yelmalio/Elmal is Ernalda's son with Yelm and, in proper kid-of-divorced-parents fashion, is Yelmalio when Ernalda and Orlanth say he can't have a new xbox so he's trying to see if Yelm will give him one and Elmal when Yelm says he can't have a sleepover and he's trying to see if Ernalda and Orlanth will let him. Only the Esrolians openly describe it that way though, and I certainly wouldn't go out and say "this is how the setting should definitively be".)
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Sep 1, 2023 01:31
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