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fatherboxx)
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khwarezm posted:Crazy thought, could Prigozhin have considered defecting to NATO or even Ukraine? Would he have brought much of value if he did so? There is a lot of speculation in China and Russia that Wagner accepted $6.2 Billion from the CIA at the start of the coup. Zero real evidence for it, but it could be pretty easy to make many Russians think the CIA took that plane down.
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Aug 24, 2023 00:57
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Mederlock posted:Definitely not, who in NATO would willingly take in Sledgehammer murder man, implicated in war crimes and other atrocities in Ukraine and Africa? Ukraine would string the guy up too. His best bet was taking all his cash and costume wardrobe, and disappearing to South America or Africa or Asia or whatever. His ego wouldn't let him give up the reins of Wagner, and he got got. Well its more the thought that even if he ends up in a relatively cushy jail its generally better than a grave. I dunno, I was just thinking of his options, if he ran off to somewhere in Asia, Africa or South America if he didn't have control of Wagner there's nothing stopping an agent with an icepick shadowing him. If he stayed in Russia, well, we see what happens. If he totally restricted himself to Belarus that might have worked. I just feel like going to Russia's most open adversaries was probably his best option if his highest priority was simply living, but then that would also mean completely abandoning any future prospects he'd have in terms of influencing Russia's political scene.
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Aug 24, 2023 00:58
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Fill Baptismal posted:Yeah what the gently caress was Prighozin thinking? That you can march on the capital, force the government to detonate highways to stop your advance, shoot down military aircraft along the way, seize cities, and then just be like "ok well, point made, let's all move on and be adults about this." ? He expected to be seriously opposed from the the beginning and then he would negotiate and be the hero to prevent brotherly shedding of blood...except he was never opposed. And the further he went, expecting surely I'll be stopped soon, the worse it got. Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 01:32
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Everything about this assassination is so dumb I wouldn't believe anything about it, except its the direct result of an equally dumb coup attempt so it kind of evens out.
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Aug 24, 2023 01:35
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Powerful mercenary groups required to maintain overseas influence due to a sclerotic military-> waging a useless and bloody war with said military whose spectacular failure lead to bringing in the mercenary group and giving them more power-> coup attempt by mercenary group -> open assassination instead of even the semblance of using an actual state apparatus to bring the coup leader/mercenary group to “justice.” It’s like the Bronze Age or age of the samurai over there… loving Conan the barbarian level statecraft. Russia is a loving mess. I know this isn’t a novel insight but goodness gracious. When it all blows up over there it’s going to be a serious problem for everyone, not just the Ukrainians. hydrocarbonenema fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 02:32
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hydrocarbonenema posted:Powerful mercenary groups required to maintain overseas influence due to a sclerotic military-> waging a useless and bloody war with said military whose spectacular failure lead to bringing in the mercenary group and giving them more power-> coup attempt by mercenary group -> open assassination instead of even the semblance of using an actual state apparatus to bring the coup leader/mercenary group to “justice.” Its honestly difficult to believe that this is something happening in Europe in the 21st century, at this rate I wouldn't be surprised to hear Landsknechts are going to rebel when their payment fails to come through again and they ransack the countryside as the Janissaries prepare for another push on Vienna. Like I had some impression that there was a semblance of normality in Russia after the bad days of the 90s before this war and that Putin's regime and corruption were on a somewhat more sophisticated level, but no, it really just run as if the Mafia controls the world's largest country at the end of the day. Hell that feels insulting to the actual Mafia. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 02:35
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evil_bunnY posted:I really, really don't understand how prigozhin could think he'd ever be allowed to step foot on putin's soil ever again. Now, to be entirely fair, that dude was several thousand feet too high to take any steps  But yeah I cannot wrap my head around Big Prigo doing anything except running to the deepest hole in Africa he can find and drinking the rest of his life away. This was pretty obviously going to happen since the minute he aborted his mutiny and every single person on Earth who wasn't him called it. khwarezm posted:Its honestly difficult to believe that this is something happening in Europe in the 21st century, at this rate I wouldn't be surprised to hear Landsknechts are going to rebel when their payment fails to come through again and they ransack the countryside as the Janissaries prepare for another push on Vienna. At least if an underboss makes a play for control he knows drat well he's gotta ice the don or he's going to be dissolved in a barrel of acid. This is like if he took out a loyal capo and was driving up to Fat Tony's mansion then turned around and said "Tony ya big putz, I was only kidding around!"
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Aug 24, 2023 03:28
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It's neat that Putin's Russia has had it's own dumber Kornilov Affair. Except instead of escaping prison successfully, Big Prig fell down some stairs and died.
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Aug 24, 2023 03:43
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whydirt posted:He was so close to reaching Diamond Medalion status too… The Something Awful Forums > Debate and Discussion > War in Ukraine CE: He was so close to Diamond Medallion status
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Aug 24, 2023 03:59
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I apologize for the twitter links but it is still a good news aggregator: Unconfirmed stuff about Wagner's response. https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1694524481409061041 And a funny side note. https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1694435817752506778
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Aug 24, 2023 04:20
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While the current thread title is good, is it too late to throw into the ring my idea? War in Ukraine CE: From Caterer to Cratered
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Aug 24, 2023 04:51
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How about a variant on the current one: The defenestration of Prig
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Aug 24, 2023 04:53
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OddObserver posted:How about a variant on the current one: 
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Aug 24, 2023 05:01
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Morrow posted:I apologize for the twitter links but it is still a good news aggregator: eh, the first time around the army and security forces didn't move to oppose them, but it seemed more out of paralyzed confusion and maybe apathy than a show of support. i doubt a stripped down force that's reacting rather than calling the tune gets very far now that the party line has clearly been set. repeated coup attempts after a force has backed down tend to go pretty differently because surprise and momentum count for so much OddObserver posted:How about a variant on the current one: glad the mods where on top of this
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Aug 24, 2023 06:28
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 New footage from moments before the crash. All kidding aside, it was wild to timeline scan some Russian twitter morons today to see them praising prig barely two months ago as they breathlessly report on his assassination and how manly it makes Putin today.
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Aug 24, 2023 06:35
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Morrow posted:I apologize for the twitter links but it is still a good news aggregator: Kyiv Independent is a poo poo source and they link here to basically a Ukrainian propaganda outlet, so it is best to ignore since it is most likely fantasy clickbait
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Aug 24, 2023 06:35
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:eh, the first time around the army and security forces didn't move to oppose them, but it seemed more out of paralyzed confusion and maybe apathy than a show of support. i doubt a stripped down force that's reacting rather than calling the tune gets very far now that the party line has clearly been set. repeated coup attempts after a force has backed down tend to go pretty differently because surprise and momentum count for so much I think it is more that the Russian military aren’t going to die to protect Putin. The best scenario is what we saw last time; none of them do anything. You have to remember that especially the closer to Moscow you get the more you have people who are wealthy and/or connected that have choice assignments and aren’t going to do anything that might get them injured or killed. Honestly if Wagner is mobilizing on a run to Moscow it might serve as the rallying cry to topple Putin. We all saw how the Wagner people were treated by the public. With Prigozhin now dead it might strengthen their support. It is all a very bad situation any way you try to handle it which Putin needlessly created, much like Ukraine. His best option was to have not do what he did.
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Aug 24, 2023 06:42
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:While the current thread title is good, is it too late to throw into the ring my idea? From traiteur to traitor.
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Aug 24, 2023 06:58
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Is there anyone else really publicly known in Wagner? I would assume they have their leadership chain laid out, but other than the two on the plane are any underneath them actually known? I mean surprised Putin hasn't/doesn't try, put in some random lackey to take Wagner over now.
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Aug 24, 2023 07:05
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:While the current thread title is good, is it too late to throw into the ring my idea? See this just needed to be stripped down. “War in Ukraine CE: Putin’s craterer”
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Aug 24, 2023 07:06
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Gunthen posted:There is a lot of speculation in China and Russia that Wagner accepted $6.2 Billion from the CIA at the start of the coup. Zero real evidence for it, but it could be pretty easy to make many Russians think the CIA took that plane down. These CIA fellas seem to run a pretty tight ship. Why not surrender to them?
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Aug 24, 2023 07:18
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War in Ukraine CE: Last Ride of the Valkyries
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Aug 24, 2023 07:32
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Djarum posted:I think it is more that the Russian military aren’t going to die to protect Putin. The best scenario is what we saw last time; none of them do anything. the former thread title was a joke about how little open support of wanger appeared in moscow during their coup attempt. no formations went over to them on their march, no spontaneous uprising happened anywhere else the previous coup attempt showed how thin the russian state is stretched, and how a culture of apathy, rear end covering, and capricious policy have completely sapped initiative at all levels of the state. it did not demonstrate a mutinous level of dissension in the general ranks. perhaps most damning of all, prigozhin clearly had doubts about his ability to get to moscow and directly implement his demands, given the fact that he ultimately folded russian units are holding the line while the weight of artillery is against them in the south, they're making probing advances in the northeast. as lovely as their conditions may be, they're clearly still willing to die for putin, or at least on his orders. a wagner column making a putsch attempt without the majority of their heavy equipment and the element of surprise seems exceedingly unlikely to once again meet no resistance at all maybe the grinding summer of no troop rotations in the face of ukraines counter offensive has fundamentally changed the mood in the russian army, and this could be a kiel mutiny moment, but it seems a slim chance to pin any hopes on
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Aug 24, 2023 07:41
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So much for all those incursions into Poland hype, huh?
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Aug 24, 2023 08:07
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:the former thread title was a joke about how little open support of wanger appeared in moscow during their coup attempt. no formations went over to them on their march, no spontaneous uprising happened anywhere else According to a friend of mine in St Petertsburg, Prigozhin masks were sold out there during the coup and a load of people wore them around town. Make of that what you will.
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Aug 24, 2023 08:24
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fatherboxx posted:So much for all those incursions into Poland hype, huh? Truly a dastardly plot to undermine PiS support weeks before elections in Poland!
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Aug 24, 2023 08:37
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Djarum posted:We all saw how the Wagner people were treated by the public. Wasn't that mostly in Rostov-on-Don, which also happened to be the hometown of a lot of the core Wagner rank and file? Not sure if a hometown advantage translates to national willingness to rise.
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Aug 24, 2023 08:44
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Tomn posted:Wasn't that mostly in Rostov-on-Don, which also happened to be the hometown of a lot of the core Wagner rank and file? Not sure if a hometown advantage translates to national willingness to rise. Yep and a hundred cheering people is not a sign of anything
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Aug 24, 2023 09:12
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:While the current thread title is good, is it too late to throw into the ring my idea? This is SO good, I can't believe it.
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Aug 24, 2023 10:13
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Daduzi posted:According to a friend of mine in St Petertsburg, Prigozhin masks were sold out there during the coup and a load of people wore them around town. Make of that what you will. My main question to that is: Were Prigozhin masks kept in stock?
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Aug 24, 2023 10:22
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Discendo Vox posted:War in Ukraine CE: Last Ride of the Valkyries Not as good as the current one but really clever!
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Aug 24, 2023 10:32
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These Prigozhin assassination conspiracy theories are beneath D&D. It's like Epstein all over again. Planes crash.
thotsky fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 10:40
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Valiantman posted:Not as good as the current one but really clever! I couldn't think of any gottardamerung puns
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Aug 24, 2023 10:45
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thotsky posted:These Prigozhin assassination conspiracy theories are beneath D&D. It's like Epstein all over again. Planes crash. Prigozhin crashed his plane himself?
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Aug 24, 2023 10:53
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Rust Martialis posted:Prigozhin crashed his plane himself? Nah, Russia Today says it could have been his pilot's Covid vaccine caused heart attack after all. https://twitter.com/golub/status/1694651490202259747
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Aug 24, 2023 11:11
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 Pilot had Sputnik vaccine.
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Aug 24, 2023 11:17
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alex314 posted:
S-300 vaccine
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Aug 24, 2023 11:19
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The pilot clearly was an astronaut at heart and decided to replicate the success of the most recent Russian moon landing
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Aug 24, 2023 11:25
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alex314 posted:
Wait, you mean it was the Russian vaccine that had the 5G nanomachines in it the whole time? I feel profoundly ripped off. Where are my nanomachines, Pfizer?
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Aug 24, 2023 11:29
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GUR claims they made a commando raid in the Crimea this morning to destroy a S-400 unit 
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Aug 24, 2023 11:44
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