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One of the major sins of Enterprise that I think most people miss - They travel at the speed of plot a lot. For a ship that's supposed to be out further than any other before it, a trip back to Earth tends to be a question of days at most at literally every point in the show's run. (I get they're probably meandering about to look at "New Things", but still)The Last Call posted:Funny. Voyager season one is a real odd duck because it's a non-standard season length with no actual season finale. They also clearly blew most of their budget early, as a lot of it takes place on Voyager's internal sets. You'd swear it was something that was meant to get put across the chopping block and be forgotten, yet somehow got renewed.
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Aug 24, 2023 14:20
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I think there was some issue where they bumped episodes intended for the 1st season to the beginning of the second. I believe that The 37s was originally intended to be the finale for season 1.
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Aug 24, 2023 14:26
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Neddy Seagoon posted:One of the major sins of Enterprise that I think most people miss - They travel at the speed of plot a lot. For a ship that's supposed to be out further than any other before it, a trip back to Earth tends to be a question of days at most at literally every point in the show's run. (I get they're probably meandering about to look at "New Things", but still) The script for Broken Bow said dropping off the Klingon on Qo'nos would be 'four weeks there, four weeks back', but the director changed it to four days on the set.  The technical side of Trek has always had a bit of a 'just assume a week passed between those two scenes' attitude.
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Aug 24, 2023 14:50
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I prefer the speed of plot to realistic distances and times in most cases
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Aug 24, 2023 15:20
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I prefer the speed of plot to realistic distances and times in most cases There's no such thing as realistic with FTL obviously, but there is such a thing as reasonably consistent and plausible within the setting. When you throw that away you're telling your audience "we don't really give much of a poo poo about this setting, why should you?"
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Aug 24, 2023 15:35
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CainFortea posted:It's not that, it's that if you're stupid enough to let things like "This plot has a lot of similarities with this other episode" bother you, your opinion doesn't matter. This, but also — if you kept track of how many Trek plots were recycled from Trek and other Sci-Fi TV you would probably be left with maybe one full season plus TOS. So many loving plots are just twists of other plots, and it doesn't matter in the slightest. Quite a lot of TV is predictable, for most of TOS, TNG, VOY, and ENT you fully know that, yes they are going to save the day and continue on their mission blah blah. Isn't that at least one of the reasons why people watch repeats of TNG, DS9, etc? Predictable input makes our brain's pattern recognition happy! I've hit episode 18 and while I did notice similarities to some episodes of TNG, it hasn't been very glaring and it hasn't been very disruptive. Sure I know the enterprise hasn't been destroyed, they aren't going to kill off any main characters, and the Ferengi probably aren't going to steal all of the women on the ship — the predictability of the plot isn't a matter because these are different characters reacting in different ways. Most of the rehashes so far have still been interesting to watch just for that reason alone.
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Aug 24, 2023 16:09
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Neddy Seagoon posted:One of the major sins of Enterprise that I think most people miss - They travel at the speed of plot a lot. For a ship that's supposed to be out further than any other before it, a trip back to Earth tends to be a question of days at most at literally every point in the show's run. (I get they're probably meandering about to look at "New Things", but still) IDK that that's a sin, moat ships travel warp 1.5, the enterprise can travel warp 4.5. So the reason our borders haven't been explored is because a trip that takes the enterprise a couple of days takes everyone else months. Space is super duper big y'know, we literally had a thing about this a few pages back where the entire alpha quadrant is absolutely tiny in comparison to the known universe. This is even lampshaded in the show — T'Pol complains about them only going to known space and they're like "Well, we dont give a poo poo if it's on a Vulcan star chart, no human has gone there before, otherwise we would have just sent probes and not bothered with humans" alexandriao fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 16:11
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alexandriao posted:lmao at just strolling up to a random planet and letting the dog out ENT dropped the ball by not having Porthos get infested with psychic ticks and becoming a host for a sentient being. Oh, the drama and social commentary they could’ve had ENT’s Tuvix. Automatic Slim fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 16:11
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Enterprise did sort of have a Tuvix episode with Trip's clone but the clone accepted that he wasn't going to live much longer anyway and underwent the operation that killed him by his own choice in the end.
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Aug 24, 2023 16:15
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Oh poo poo it's James Cromwell! *puts a dot on the bingo card*
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Aug 24, 2023 16:16
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Dunno if it's been addressed, but if Pike has already seen his future life as Delta Radiation Scarface Wheelchair "Two-Beeps" Jackson, hasn't he also seen himself banging an illusory hottie on Talos IV? (Also didn't realize that SNW takes place two years after the Talos IV incident. I was wondering when Dr. Boyce and Yeoman Horny might show up. Now I'm wondering where they went.)
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Aug 24, 2023 16:30
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No, the time crystal just showed him the accident and that he'll end up in the wheelchair. It didn't show him anything beyond that.
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Aug 24, 2023 16:32
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Mirage posted:Dunno if it's been addressed, but if Pike has already seen his future life as Delta Radiation Scarface Wheelchair "Two-Beeps" Jackson, hasn't he also seen himself banging an illusory hottie on Talos IV?
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Aug 24, 2023 16:34
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Boyce peacefully passed away offscreen as soon as the credits started rolling on The Cage.
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Aug 24, 2023 16:37
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ReelBigLizard posted:I like that the transporter is unreliable and dangerous and everyone is afraid of it. 
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Aug 24, 2023 16:50
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Garak first appeared in episode 3 of DS9, actually
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Aug 24, 2023 16:55
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Eighties ZomCom posted:Enterprise did sort of have a Tuvix episode with Trip's clone but the clone accepted that he wasn't going to live much longer anyway and underwent the operation that killed him by his own choice in the end. Another example of Phlox's alien medical ethics and morality. Producing a fully sapient clone for the sole purpose of being harvested for parts, and withholding information about a possible treatment that would extend his life. Only reason its not remembered as much as Tuvix, is they gaslit Sim into accepting his fate.
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Aug 24, 2023 17:06
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im a really weird vulcan and its pon farr
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Aug 24, 2023 17:18
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I mean Phlox knows that it’s hosed up but they didn’t have a lot of great alternatives He also had Archer ultimately make the call
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Aug 24, 2023 17:19
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FlamingLiberal posted:I mean Phlox knows that it’s hosed up but they didn’t have a lot of great alternatives And really, we are talking about "I get off by playing God on less advanced sentient species by randomly deciding who gets to live and who gets to die"-Phlox. The guy is a medicare ethics nightmare to the level where Khan Noonien Singh would probably consider the guy an rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 24, 2023 18:53
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beautiful smile, tho
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Aug 24, 2023 19:49
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Breaking down the TNG series finale the plot is kind of thin. Humanity is still being judged by Q and because Picard is able to solve the situation he created it gives Q hope about humanity. The test is a technical puzzle - how to reverse this time anomaly. Picard is blamed for this but the bridge crew offered up suggestions to deal with the anomaly in the first place and solving it doesn't say that much about humanity other than Picard was able to figure out the solution with the help of Q's time shenanigans. A solution via morality or doing the right thing would have made more sense to me. And it's again weird to me that smug Q cares so much about species that mean so little compared to Q. It kind of taints that character for me in general. And yes he can be glorious but he can also be annoying. I'm probably in the minority on this.
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Aug 24, 2023 20:26
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I need to get you guys back on track. 
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Aug 24, 2023 20:38
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Big rear end On Fire posted:Breaking down the TNG series finale the plot is kind of thin. Humanity is still being judged by Q and because Picard is able to solve the situation he created it gives Q hope about humanity. The test is a technical puzzle - how to reverse this time anomaly. Picard is blamed for this but the bridge crew offered up suggestions to deal with the anomaly in the first place and solving it doesn't say that much about humanity other than Picard was able to figure out the solution with the help of Q's time shenanigans. A solution via morality or doing the right thing would have made more sense to me. And it's again weird to me that smug Q cares so much about species that mean so little compared to Q. It kind of taints that character for me in general. And yes he can be glorious but he can also be annoying. I'm probably in the minority on this. It’s not so much a “technical” puzzle and much more “is Picard, my favorite human, capable of casting off the shackles of what he sees as traditional thinking? Is he, and therefore humanity, capable of further growth?” puzzle
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Aug 24, 2023 20:50
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I really liked the interpretation I read either in this or the other Trek thread the other day, where Q is in fact humanity's advocate against the rest of the Q and pretends to be the villain to have the Enterprise crew make the case for him.
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Aug 24, 2023 20:56
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davidspackage posted:I really liked the interpretation I read either in this or the other Trek thread the other day, where Q is in fact humanity's advocate against the rest of the Q and pretends to be the villain to have the Enterprise crew make the case for him. Yeah, Q is humanity's defense attorney, not humanity's judge.
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Aug 24, 2023 20:57
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LookieLoo posted:I need to get you guys back on track. That hair should have a spin off. Star Trek: Pike's Hair
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Aug 24, 2023 20:58
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alexandriao posted:IDK that that's a sin, moat ships travel warp 1.5, the enterprise can travel warp 4.5. So the reason our borders haven't been explored is because a trip that takes the enterprise a couple of days takes everyone else months. Also aren't warp speeds exponentially faster? Like warp two isn't twice as fast but much more? And warp 9.5 and warp 9.6 can mean a difference of arriving days apart? So that additional 1-2 warp factor means you have turned a six month journey into a week or two?
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Aug 24, 2023 20:59
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the Q as immortal god like beings have seen countless sentient species form star empires with good intentions, watched them rise and fall, go mad with power, harm other peoples, fade out, they are all pretty jaded. the Q also were once a lot like the federation and are really a kind of end game where science and technology become pretty much magic beyond a certain point. a different end point than the borg for example. they see potential in
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Aug 24, 2023 21:00
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Big rear end On Fire posted:Breaking down the TNG series finale the plot is kind of thin. Humanity is still being judged by Q and because Picard is able to solve the situation he created it gives Q hope about humanity. The test is a technical puzzle - how to reverse this time anomaly. Picard is blamed for this but the bridge crew offered up suggestions to deal with the anomaly in the first place and solving it doesn't say that much about humanity other than Picard was able to figure out the solution with the help of Q's time shenanigans. A solution via morality or doing the right thing would have made more sense to me. And it's again weird to me that smug Q cares so much about species that mean so little compared to Q. It kind of taints that character for me in general. And yes he can be glorious but he can also be annoying. I'm probably in the minority on this. like most time travel plots, it definitely benefits from not thinking about it too hard... but weren't Picard's morality and relationships part of the solution? The solution required picard to risk sacrificing his own life for the greater good, and was dependent on picard having spent a lifetime earning the trust of his crew. and regarding Q's smugness, I personally thought that episode improved the character because it was the clearest signal yet that humans (or at least Picard) do mean something to Q, and that the smug indifference had become a front put up by a vain Q to avoid admitting that he might care a little about some hairless ape. this is fresh on my mind because I just finished my first run through TNG last week, and though yes the finale's plot was a bit dodgy (like much of season 7), I appreciated that it struck the right tone and left all of the characters in a good place. i thought it was a pleasant spot to leave the TNG crew, hopefully they're content to leave it at that instead of launching into a string of increasingly dire movies and TV revivals that completely trash all of the characters in the process. now to take a big sip of my coffee and see what else this "star trek" has been up to since then e: davidspackage posted:I really liked the interpretation I read either in this or the other Trek thread the other day, where Q is in fact humanity's advocate against the rest of the Q and pretends to be the villain to have the Enterprise crew make the case for him. Blotto_Otter fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 21:00
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redshirt posted:That hair should have a spin off. There's Anson Mount, and then there's Mount Anson. Know the difference, it'll save your life one day.
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Aug 24, 2023 21:07
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The technical plot and the emotional plot in All Good Things mirror each other. Picard is shown two problems that he will have caused by acting the way he normally would, and he must prevent them before they happen by doing something that would have been unthinkable for him. To deal with the temporal anomaly, he has to step outside thinking of time as a linear sequence of events where cause always precedes effect, and to forestall the eventual drifting apart of the crew, he joins the poker game for the first time. Q is testing Picard's flexibility and potential for growth, as an ambassador who represents the best of humanity.
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Aug 24, 2023 21:09
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redshirt posted:That hair should have a spin off. IKR how does he have so much hair? I bet he has to shave his back.
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Aug 24, 2023 21:15
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naem posted:the Q as immortal god like beings have seen countless sentient species form star empires with good intentions, watched them rise and fall, go mad with power, harm other peoples, fade out, they are all pretty jaded.
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Aug 24, 2023 21:16
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Big rear end On Fire posted:Breaking down the TNG series finale the plot is kind of thin. Humanity is still being judged by Q and because Picard is able to solve the situation he created it gives Q hope about humanity. The test is a technical puzzle - how to reverse this time anomaly. Picard is blamed for this but the bridge crew offered up suggestions to deal with the anomaly in the first place and solving it doesn't say that much about humanity other than Picard was able to figure out the solution with the help of Q's time shenanigans. A solution via morality or doing the right thing would have made more sense to me. And it's again weird to me that smug Q cares so much about species that mean so little compared to Q. It kind of taints that character for me in general. And yes he can be glorious but he can also be annoying. I'm probably in the minority on this. So it wasn't a test of morality, it was a test of Picard's ability to open his mind to new ideas, to still grow and learn, to do anything other than arrogantly assume he already had all the answers. A test he barely passed even with Q putting his thumb on the scale. Q is always belittling humanity because he wants nothing more than to puncture our arrogance, to belittle our notions of being so evolved and above everyone else. But the fact is he does like us. And he sees real potential for us in the future, and he doesn't want us to waste it. It's a constant throughout the series that he's always needling Picard about thinking he has all the answers. The end of the episode, with Picard joining the poker table, was Picard changing things up, trying to learn and grow still, and in many ways - trying to avert his lonely rear end bitter vineyard future. Little did he know how much fightin' and fuckin' he still had to do
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Aug 24, 2023 21:17
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SNW S1E8 does the DS9 ending better, imagine Sisko going to the prophets and returning 10 seconds later. JAAAAAAAKKEEE!!!!
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Aug 24, 2023 21:31
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What about when Q hosed around with Vash for two years?
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Aug 24, 2023 21:36
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Blistex posted:Also aren't warp speeds exponentially faster? Like warp two isn't twice as fast but much more? And warp 9.5 and warp 9.6 can mean a difference of arriving days apart? So that additional 1-2 warp factor means you have turned a six month journey into a week or two? The scale has changed, but for most of star trek, yes basically. Also there is, for lack of a better word, warp weather that can further change the apparent velocity. Sort of like how you hear water bote captains in movies saying things like "Make turns for 20 knots", so they are saying they want the engine to produce the power to nominally move the bote at 20 knots, but the actual sea conditions means they may be moving at 15 knots.
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Aug 24, 2023 21:40
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Trying posted:What about when Q hosed around with Vash for two years? Hyperdimensional sex tourism Q is no angel
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redshirt posted:That hair should have a spin off. Starfleet was ready to pull the plug on Pike when he had his accident, but drat it, they had to save the hair.
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Aug 24, 2023 21:51
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